The Official Seattle Mariners Thread
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Seattle's offense on pace to be among worst
SEATTLE — Manger Eric Wedge's daily briefings have turned into a psychological examination about the Seattle Mariners' offense woes.
The brief optimism of a month ago when Seattle was a half-game out in the AL West race has been replaced by the reality of another rebuilding season. The anemic Mariners scored just two runs in dropping four straight in Texas after the All-Star break and have lost nine in a row to fall 11 games behind the first-place Rangers.
If the Mariners don't improve soon, they could turn out to be one of the worst offensive teams since the designated hitter was added to the American League in 1973.
After being swept by the Rangers, Seattle is hitting just .221, eight points lower than anyone else in baseball and 15 points worse than any other team in the AL. Only five members of Seattle's current roster are hitting above .240. Rookie Greg Halman is the best at .279 and he has only 68 plate appearances.
Even the normally consistent Ichiro Suzuki is slumping through the worst year of his career. Suzuki ended Sunday hitting .262, an astounding 65 points below his career average of .327. His streak of 200 hits in every season since arriving in the majors in 2001 is at risk, with just 102 hits through 94 games.
Meanwhile, veterans such as Chone Figgins, Miguel Olivo, Jack Wilson and Jack Cust are all hitting below .230.
"Everybody goes through stuff like this, through slumps and stuff like that," Wilson said Sunday after getting his fourth start in the last month. "... You don't want to stand on this last homestand and what we did offensively, so you gather yourself together in Toronto and say 'it's going to be a good series.'"
Beyond just a lack of hitting, the Mariners simply aren't getting on base, and at a record pace. They are the only team in the American League with an on-base percentage below .300 at just .286 nearly 100 games into the season. Since the addition of the designated hitter, only two AL teams — the 1981 Toronto Blue Jays and 1981 Minnesota Twins — have finished a season with an on-base percentage below .300 and both those came in a strike-shortened season.
Additionally, the Mariners are on pace for just 94 home runs, which would be fewest in a full season and is severely bringing down the Mariners OPS — on-base plus slugging percentage. Seattle currently stands at .611, headed toward the worst total in baseball in nearly four decades since the 1972 Texas Rangers had an OPS of .581.
It's all adding up to an anemic offense. Wedge has regularly expressed his disappointment with his veterans being unable or unwilling to change their approach at the plate and correct what he views as problems. He said Sunday that with some of Seattle's young prospects, the struggles are part of playing young kids at the major league level. He has less tolerance for veterans still struggling.
"With a kid it's somewhat understandable. With a veteran, it's not. This is the big leagues," Wedge said. "There is a lot of baseball they've played before getting up here. With younger kids, that's one thing, but with veterans there shouldn't be any excuses. You should be going up there with a plan and sticking with your plan to at least give yourself a chance to have success."
The offensive woes are coming at a time when the Mariners are getting exceptional pitching. Seattle has a team ERA of 3.27, on pace to be the best pitching staff in franchise history by nearly a half-run. Despite getting swept by the Rangers, Seattle's starting rotation all has minuscule ERAs, with Jason Vargas at 3.68 being the high mark.
Wedge has endured this before while leading the Indians rebuilding project.
"I know it's going to get better. Anytime you went through it before it helps you the next time you go through it," Wedge said. "The first time I went through this it was more drastic in so many different ways. I think the one thing you have to realize is we're not playing bad baseball, we're just not hitting at all.
"This will make them tougher, and they've got to get tougher."
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/al/2011-07-18-2702028334_x.htm
SEATTLE — Manger Eric Wedge's daily briefings have turned into a psychological examination about the Seattle Mariners' offense woes.
The brief optimism of a month ago when Seattle was a half-game out in the AL West race has been replaced by the reality of another rebuilding season. The anemic Mariners scored just two runs in dropping four straight in Texas after the All-Star break and have lost nine in a row to fall 11 games behind the first-place Rangers.
If the Mariners don't improve soon, they could turn out to be one of the worst offensive teams since the designated hitter was added to the American League in 1973.
After being swept by the Rangers, Seattle is hitting just .221, eight points lower than anyone else in baseball and 15 points worse than any other team in the AL. Only five members of Seattle's current roster are hitting above .240. Rookie Greg Halman is the best at .279 and he has only 68 plate appearances.
Even the normally consistent Ichiro Suzuki is slumping through the worst year of his career. Suzuki ended Sunday hitting .262, an astounding 65 points below his career average of .327. His streak of 200 hits in every season since arriving in the majors in 2001 is at risk, with just 102 hits through 94 games.
Meanwhile, veterans such as Chone Figgins, Miguel Olivo, Jack Wilson and Jack Cust are all hitting below .230.
"Everybody goes through stuff like this, through slumps and stuff like that," Wilson said Sunday after getting his fourth start in the last month. "... You don't want to stand on this last homestand and what we did offensively, so you gather yourself together in Toronto and say 'it's going to be a good series.'"
Beyond just a lack of hitting, the Mariners simply aren't getting on base, and at a record pace. They are the only team in the American League with an on-base percentage below .300 at just .286 nearly 100 games into the season. Since the addition of the designated hitter, only two AL teams — the 1981 Toronto Blue Jays and 1981 Minnesota Twins — have finished a season with an on-base percentage below .300 and both those came in a strike-shortened season.
Additionally, the Mariners are on pace for just 94 home runs, which would be fewest in a full season and is severely bringing down the Mariners OPS — on-base plus slugging percentage. Seattle currently stands at .611, headed toward the worst total in baseball in nearly four decades since the 1972 Texas Rangers had an OPS of .581.
It's all adding up to an anemic offense. Wedge has regularly expressed his disappointment with his veterans being unable or unwilling to change their approach at the plate and correct what he views as problems. He said Sunday that with some of Seattle's young prospects, the struggles are part of playing young kids at the major league level. He has less tolerance for veterans still struggling.
"With a kid it's somewhat understandable. With a veteran, it's not. This is the big leagues," Wedge said. "There is a lot of baseball they've played before getting up here. With younger kids, that's one thing, but with veterans there shouldn't be any excuses. You should be going up there with a plan and sticking with your plan to at least give yourself a chance to have success."
The offensive woes are coming at a time when the Mariners are getting exceptional pitching. Seattle has a team ERA of 3.27, on pace to be the best pitching staff in franchise history by nearly a half-run. Despite getting swept by the Rangers, Seattle's starting rotation all has minuscule ERAs, with Jason Vargas at 3.68 being the high mark.
Wedge has endured this before while leading the Indians rebuilding project.
"I know it's going to get better. Anytime you went through it before it helps you the next time you go through it," Wedge said. "The first time I went through this it was more drastic in so many different ways. I think the one thing you have to realize is we're not playing bad baseball, we're just not hitting at all.
"This will make them tougher, and they've got to get tougher."
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/al/2011-07-18-2702028334_x.htm
I mean, LAST year's offense was the worst since the DH era started. And i thought to myself, there is NO WAY we could be any worse than that. Boy, was I wrong. EPICALLY wrong.
In other news, Robles is back in Tacoma after being on the DH, and pitched a very good game. Dude is 22 and could be a vital trade piece...or a replacement for one of the starters that will be traded in the next 2 weeks...
In other news, Robles is back in Tacoma after being on the DH, and pitched a very good game. Dude is 22 and could be a vital trade piece...or a replacement for one of the starters that will be traded in the next 2 weeks...
well here we go again, with this losing streak you cant bring up the mariners anymore around any "fans" or all you'll hear is the typical hater garbage
"mariners suck!" "the mariners blow!" "the mariners are losers!"
lol these people feel the most proud when the mariners are doing real bad, they add in that extra flame and hatred in there, really kick it up a notch during a streak like this. they crave it and wait for it. shit is just baseball folks, its a GAME
anybody else running into a lot more of these idiots nowadays? i think ill just start handing out gold star stickers or cookies and tell them good job
"mariners suck!" "the mariners blow!" "the mariners are losers!"
lol these people feel the most proud when the mariners are doing real bad, they add in that extra flame and hatred in there, really kick it up a notch during a streak like this. they crave it and wait for it. shit is just baseball folks, its a GAME
anybody else running into a lot more of these idiots nowadays? i think ill just start handing out gold star stickers or cookies and tell them good job
Im one of those idiots. And guess what...they DO suck. They ARE losers. What do you expect us to say? "Well, at least they havent lost 12 in a row."
Fuck Howard Lincoln and Chuck Armstrong...they are greedy stooges who REFUSE to make this team better. All they give a shit about is reliving 2001 and making money off of it. And until people STOP going to games, it will continue. Expect Jack Z to be the scapegoat if he doesn't make any decent moves before July 31st.
Fuck Howard Lincoln and Chuck Armstrong...they are greedy stooges who REFUSE to make this team better. All they give a shit about is reliving 2001 and making money off of it. And until people STOP going to games, it will continue. Expect Jack Z to be the scapegoat if he doesn't make any decent moves before July 31st.
i couldnt agree more, i was screaming the same thing in the beginning of the season.. and well, last year too. lol
the problem i think is lincoln and armstrong weren't fully committed to the rebuild, but i think they finally realize they are losing major millions by not putting a championship product on the field and not having fully committed to a youth rebuild to get there. last season and also the consecutive record low attendance records in the beginning of the season sent a strong message, these guys are about money, and id like to think they realize the real money is in championship baseball, but getting there takes time
im trying to have a little faith, i want to believe we are in full on rebuild mode and jack Z has a good plan for a championship product to emerge within 2-5 years. we are starting to get tastes of whats to come, dustin ackley is the biggest name that comes to mind. other shit isnt working out so much. peguero and smoak come to mind. i wouldnt bank on the mariners making any huge trade moves, especially if that involves compromising the rebuild in any way. that will pretty much clear the air of whether they are just stringing everybody along (give a ton of prospects up for a veteran, a tiny band-aid fix to raise attendance a little bit), or if they are actually serious to Jack Z's plan (keep prospects, focus on developing current talent)
i understand everybodys frustration but i think theres a lot of exciting shit to come, and pulling away from it and coming back once its there isnt as rewarding as riding it out until success. the long ride is where the fun is at. for instance if you didnt tune in to todays game you missed the first grand slam of the season. and it was pretty damn sweet
the problem i think is lincoln and armstrong weren't fully committed to the rebuild, but i think they finally realize they are losing major millions by not putting a championship product on the field and not having fully committed to a youth rebuild to get there. last season and also the consecutive record low attendance records in the beginning of the season sent a strong message, these guys are about money, and id like to think they realize the real money is in championship baseball, but getting there takes time
im trying to have a little faith, i want to believe we are in full on rebuild mode and jack Z has a good plan for a championship product to emerge within 2-5 years. we are starting to get tastes of whats to come, dustin ackley is the biggest name that comes to mind. other shit isnt working out so much. peguero and smoak come to mind. i wouldnt bank on the mariners making any huge trade moves, especially if that involves compromising the rebuild in any way. that will pretty much clear the air of whether they are just stringing everybody along (give a ton of prospects up for a veteran, a tiny band-aid fix to raise attendance a little bit), or if they are actually serious to Jack Z's plan (keep prospects, focus on developing current talent)
i understand everybodys frustration but i think theres a lot of exciting shit to come, and pulling away from it and coming back once its there isnt as rewarding as riding it out until success. the long ride is where the fun is at. for instance if you didnt tune in to todays game you missed the first grand slam of the season. and it was pretty damn sweet
and if everybody boycotted the mariners i doubt the team owners would want to stick around, theyd probably dump the mariners and our team would be shipped off somewhere else.
i guess we can always cross our fingers and hope paul allen buys the mariners and turns them into world champions, lol. or another mark cuban emerges from outta nowhere and buys them. seattle has a pure home-town team type feel, i think if we had an owner who gave a shit like mark cuban we could build a dynasty here, and safeco field would be completely packed non-stop guaranteed.
or maybe we can hope on some foster kid praying that the mariners win the world series and some angels come down to assist the players, a'la angels in the outfield. lmao. anythings better than wallowing in despair
/delusionalhomerfan.jpg
i guess we can always cross our fingers and hope paul allen buys the mariners and turns them into world champions, lol. or another mark cuban emerges from outta nowhere and buys them. seattle has a pure home-town team type feel, i think if we had an owner who gave a shit like mark cuban we could build a dynasty here, and safeco field would be completely packed non-stop guaranteed.
or maybe we can hope on some foster kid praying that the mariners win the world series and some angels come down to assist the players, a'la angels in the outfield. lmao. anythings better than wallowing in despair
/delusionalhomerfan.jpg
Cooper going down is a big blow to our depth. However, they brought in Kyle Lewis, who originally committed to UCLA but never signed with them, as a real late addition. I think they want to RS Sankey, so Lewis will be there. And dont forget J. Fogerson, who is still on the team and was 2nd behind Polk before he was injured. However, his brother having his career end was another blow, which means walk-on Amosa will see carries at FB, along with incoming frosh Dezden Petty.
Price gets the benefit of LOTS of experience, along with two very exciting frosh in ASJ and Kasen Williams...he has weapons galore. The OL will be better this year...book it. Kohler and Porter will see lots of time, and i am hearing that many of the young RS frosh's are looking fantastic. Senio could be All-Pac 12. We are DEEP at WR.
Our defense will be stout on the DL...if Tokolahi can come back from this ankle injury. We was really starting to turn it on at the end of the season before he got rolled up on. Expect Ta'amu to be one of the best DL's in the nation this year. Also, look for Sione to really turn it up in his sophomore campaign. Lagafuiana and even Danny Shelton will see time there. The most exciting part of our line, though, is going to be Jamora and Shirley. These guys can play. Shirley is such a beast, Sark actually INVENTED a position for him...RUSH. He is a bit too small for an everyday DE, and not good enough in coverage to be a OLB. So he will be out on the field on every 3rd down. Andrew Hudson will also be ready to go as a RS frosh. Everette Thompson is FINALLY healthy, and looks GREAT. Aldrich and Chriton are still coming back from injuries, but should be good to go for fall camp. I personally think our 2ndary is sick, with Fellner, Parker, Stevenson, and Shamburger all fighting for time at S, and Q-Rich and Trufant guarding the outside. Also, Ducre looked good last year as a true frosh, and Peters coming in as a true frosh will see time. My only concern is the LB corp. Outside of Dennison, there is little to no experience. However, there is a long line waiting to crack the 2-deeps there. Pueller, Tutogi, Fiumano, Kearse, and Gilliland are all scratching and clawing to get PT.
I see us going 6-6 and sneaking into a bowl.
Price gets the benefit of LOTS of experience, along with two very exciting frosh in ASJ and Kasen Williams...he has weapons galore. The OL will be better this year...book it. Kohler and Porter will see lots of time, and i am hearing that many of the young RS frosh's are looking fantastic. Senio could be All-Pac 12. We are DEEP at WR.
Our defense will be stout on the DL...if Tokolahi can come back from this ankle injury. We was really starting to turn it on at the end of the season before he got rolled up on. Expect Ta'amu to be one of the best DL's in the nation this year. Also, look for Sione to really turn it up in his sophomore campaign. Lagafuiana and even Danny Shelton will see time there. The most exciting part of our line, though, is going to be Jamora and Shirley. These guys can play. Shirley is such a beast, Sark actually INVENTED a position for him...RUSH. He is a bit too small for an everyday DE, and not good enough in coverage to be a OLB. So he will be out on the field on every 3rd down. Andrew Hudson will also be ready to go as a RS frosh. Everette Thompson is FINALLY healthy, and looks GREAT. Aldrich and Chriton are still coming back from injuries, but should be good to go for fall camp. I personally think our 2ndary is sick, with Fellner, Parker, Stevenson, and Shamburger all fighting for time at S, and Q-Rich and Trufant guarding the outside. Also, Ducre looked good last year as a true frosh, and Peters coming in as a true frosh will see time. My only concern is the LB corp. Outside of Dennison, there is little to no experience. However, there is a long line waiting to crack the 2-deeps there. Pueller, Tutogi, Fiumano, Kearse, and Gilliland are all scratching and clawing to get PT.
I see us going 6-6 and sneaking into a bowl.
Great analysis sir! I'll take another bowl game no doubt. Lots of kids to be excited about this year thats for sure. I had heard about Zach Fogerson too, was it him or his rapping brother Young Kapone that got busted for weed recently? I'm excited to see what Kasen is going to do along with ASJ. And I think Ta'amu is gonna beast this year too, he really put on a show at the holiday bowl. How do you think Josh Shirley will come along this year? Are they planning on using him as sort of a LEO or what?