The Last of the Siccness Christians

[GTS]

The existence of a God which created life is light years more far fetched than the theory that life evolved from 'one cell'.

When you expire I guess we'll both find out. Coming back from Hawaii, and Tahoe recently it's hard to look at those places and think it wasn't created by a higher power, but hey maybe the big bang created those beautiful places :dead: .

 

[2-0-Sixx]

the last nigger on earth staring mel gibson haha radom thought

WTF?

 

[2-0-NINE]

When you expire I guess we'll both find out. Coming back from Hawaii, and Tahoe recently it's hard to look at those places and think it wasn't created by a higher power, but hey maybe the big bang created those beautiful places :dead: .

Look Bro, God told us he created the World, how do you know the Big Bang wasn't an act of God. I think it's a possibility. Not everything science presents should be disregarded because of religion. After all God made everything. If you think about an Island like Hawaii, it was formed by Volcanoes, I'm pretty sure God formed Islands from Volcanoes. The Big Bang Theory may be put like this, God collided Two Comets and made the earth, that doesn't seem against religious views right? I don't think so.

 

[Hutch]

Glad you said this, I don't do have conflicting thoughts about evolution with in the flora and fauna, but if I think about it why not? But when it's also applied to humans, not you but some people on here, who say humans came from other organism, I can't agree with that.

Typical religious anthropocentric ideology. Humans are better than animals, I mean look at us - we can build shit and philosophise! Wow! We can't have came from animals!

We did. Get used to it.

 

[2-0-NINE]

Nope, because once I see a lizard become a midget, then I will.

 

[Hutch]

When you expire I guess we'll both find out. Coming back from Hawaii, and Tahoe recently it's hard to look at those places and think it wasn't created by a higher power, but hey maybe the big bang created those beautiful places :dead: .

When I expire, I will find nothing out because I will no longer exist in any way, shape or form. Death is final.

 

[2-0-NINE]

When I expire, I will find nothing out because I will no longer exist in any way, shape or form. Death is final.

What about your matter, will that cease to exist then? I thought it keeps going.

 

[ilikeballs]

Is that because evolution helps to discredit your God and His book? Any knowledge which can provide an alternative explanation to 'God did it' is to be ignored completely because if you actually understood it, it may shake your belief in God. Ignorance is better than a lack of belief, isn't it?



Any argument that uses the bible to support it's claims is a weak argument at best.



I would like to finish my PhD and have a long, fruitful career in plant science, get married, buy a nice house and have either two or three children; I would like to continue to spend time with my family and friends, laugh and have fun, travel around the world and experience the wonder of ancient ruins, natural landscapes and the multitude of cultures in existance. You get the picture. God has no place in any of this though.



I would agree. Less educated people are more likely to believe in God due to their ignorance, or as you put it, their lack of knowledge (same thing). Again, referring to the bible is useless - ask God any question and he will answer? That's bullshit and you know it. I also agree with your statement 'knowledge alone is useless without wisdom', but again we must disagree on the definition of wisdom. It sounds as though you're saying 'knowledge is useless without God (or spiritual understanding, whatever)'. I prefer the phrase 'knowledge is useless if you don't know how to use it'.



You're getting better jon, but you still make bold claims without any evidence. If the only thing this board teaches anyone is how to increase the cogency of their argument, or increase their ability to spell or type grammatically correct sentences, then this board has done an excellent job of teaching.




A contradictory statement;





Um, jon, that actually highlights a fault of yours. Logic tells me that asking this intelligent man for directions when he clearly doesn't know them is a stupid move. I would definitely request the help of the 'crude, thug like' man because he is a useful source of information. When it comes to the task of getting out of the hood, this thug is clearly smarter than the 'intelligent' man.

Using the exact same argument, let's say that I am about to be thrown from a cliff by a band of raving lunatics. There is an intelligent man, who says he'll tell me how I can survive such a fall for $100. Then there's a priest, who puts forth the same offer. Let's say I take the advice of the less intelligent man (the priest). What will he say? I bet you it would be something along the lines of 'God is with you, have faith and pray as you fall and Gods hand will come down and guide you to safety'. In other words, I'm FUCKED! If I ask the more intelligent man, he would say, 'as you fall, hook your jumper on that tree to the left about ten metres down. You might be able to swing yourself onto that revine and survive'. I would MUCH rather take the intelligent mans advice! In other words jon, knowledge of the world is far more important than blind faith.

I don't refuse to listen to the arguments of those who are less 'intelligent' than me. However, I have spent an AWFUL lot of time thinking about such topics from multiple angles and am extremely comfortable with my resulting paradigm. When someone less 'intelligent' than me says I'm wrong and supports his claim with a ridiculously stupid argument, I am not likely to listen to them!



In detail, this is a very complex topic. In simple terms though, the formation of a consciousness is an evolutionary adaptation just like the eye. It helps us survive by giving us the ability to learn, to adapt, to remember and communicate more effectively - you get the picture. The mind forms as a result of the complex electrochemical interplay between millions of neurons - there doesn't need to be any spirit or soul which gives us the ability to think, there is no homunculous in our heads jon.

your right, i guess it all depends on our point of view. but both beliefs, whether its creationism or evolution, require a degree of faith because they're both still theories. i have learned alot from this discusion, and i guess living life doesnt require a believe in god. but from my point of view the argument for evolution seems weak.

 

[ilikeballs]

When I expire, I will find nothing out because I will no longer exist in any way, shape or form. Death is final.

a question the living cannot answer.

 

[ilikeballs]

What about your matter, will that cease to exist then? I thought it keeps going.

matter does keep going, it just takes diffrent shapes as it exchanges energy. energy though keeps going.

 

[2-0-NINE]

matter does keep going, it just takes diffrent shapes as it exchanges energy. energy though keeps going.

I was asking hutch, how does he know if a soul, if he does believe there is a soul, is matter?

 

[Hutch]

What about your matter, will that cease to exist then? I thought it keeps going.

The particles which were used to form my body will continue to exist, but they are in no way 'me'. They are inanimate molecules, no different from any other molecule in existence whether on Earth or at the core of a massive sun. Not a shred of my 'life force' will be imparted on these molecules, they just 'are'.

 

[2-0-NINE]

:dead: Hutch, in the event that you do see God, which you know in YOUR MIND, that you won't, what will you say, this is after you have been dead.

 

[Hutch]

your right, i guess it all depends on our point of view. but both beliefs, whether its creationism or evolution, require a degree of faith because they're both still theories. i have learned alot from this discusion, and i guess living life doesnt require a believe in god. but from my point of view the argument for evolution seems weak.

They are not both theories. Evolution is a theory but you could not consider the existence of God as being a theory. Evolution has tonnes of experimental evidence supporting it, the existence of God has none. Faith, in regards to religion, requires a strong belief based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof. In regards to evolution, the word faith would take on a different meaning, being that of complete trust or confidence.

Please jon, read the blind watchmaker or the selfish gene. It's explanatory power is massive, logical and is supported by mounds of evidence while not being refuted by a single shred of evidence. If you seriously want to believe in God above and beyond the elegance of evolution, then that is the definition of ignorance and self-deception.

 

[Hutch]

:dead: Hutch, in the event that you do see God, which you know in YOUR MIND, that you won't, what will you say, this is after you have been dead.

I'll say 'wow, I was wrong'. The odds of that happening though are almost too small to calculate.

What if you see God upon your death, but 'He' is not the christian God? How will you explain your belief in a false God to 'Him'? Remember, there is just as much evidence and likelihood that the Muslilm God is the one true God, or that the Hindu Gods are real, or that Zeus and Ra are true Gods - why have so much confidence in your own? Because you were brought up believing in 'Him', or because 'he's such a kind, merciful God'?

 

[2-0-NINE]

If you seriously want to believe in God above and beyond the elegance of evolution, then that is the definition of ignorance and self-deception.

don't tell him believing in God is Ignorance and Self-Deception, you are no one to tell a man that. On the other hand, what makes you think denying God isn't ignorance or self-deception? Can you seriously refute something we worship but you cannot understand?

 

[2-0-NINE]

I'll say 'wow, I was wrong'. The odds of that happening though are almost too small to calculate.

What if you see God upon your death, but 'He' is not the christian God? How will you explain your belief in a false God to 'Him'? Remember, there is just as much evidence and likelihood that the Muslilm God is the one true God, or that the Hindu Gods are real, or that Zeus and Ra are true Gods - why have so much confidence in your own? Because you were brought up believing in 'Him', or because 'he's such a kind, merciful God'?

Hutch we already had a discussion about this, but I'll leave at at this. I believe my God is True, because I'll hold on to this faith, on the Day of Judgment, IF he is the Christian God, which I believe he will be, he'll know me. Vague, I know, but can I really put it in a logical Sense, maybe someone can Try like Heresy, but I can't. Quite Frankly mate, I just accept God as he told us to, just as in the bible, Thy Will be Done, and that's that.

 

[Hutch]

don't tell him believing in God is Ignorance and Self-Deception, you are no one to tell a man that. On the other hand, what makes you think denying God isn't ignorance or self-deception? Can you seriously refute something we worship but you cannot understand?

Yes I am the man to tell him that. You are all denying sound scientific knowledge because it refutes the existence of your God. Why do we even need scientific knowledge to refute your Gods existence? Doesn't the fact that THERE IS NO EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT HIS EXISTENCE kinda rule out his existence, or at least make it highly improbable? Denying God, i.e. not choosing to believe in something that, for all intents and purposes, doesn't exist, is definitely not ignorance or self-deception. Many believers in God refuse to accept new knowledge and deliberately close their eyes and stuff fingers in their ears when scientific knowledge is put forth - ignorance is bliss!

Seriously, what if I honestly believed in the flying spaghetti monster? Would you honestly support my beliefs? No, you would not. You would tell me that 'believing in the flying spaghetti monster is retarded, do you really think 'he' exists?". Your God is just a different form of the flying spaghetti monster and you deceive yourselves every day into believing that he ACTUALLY exists!

 

[Hutch]

Hutch we already had a discussion about this, but I'll leave at at this. I believe my God is True, because I'll hold on to this faith, on the Day of Judgment, IF he is the Christian God, which I believe he will be, he'll know me. Vague, I know, but can I really put it in a logical Sense, maybe someone can Try like Heresy, but I can't. Quite Frankly mate, I just accept God as he told us to, just as in the bible, Thy Will be Done, and that's that.

Believe what you will Stockton. You cannot put it into a more logical argument, because the argument is inherently devoid of logic, hence my disbelief. I refuse to accept that God told us too - God did not tell me anything. I sincerely doubt that God had anything to do with the bible either - I strongly believe that it is the product of humans and that is that. Faith in your God does not prove his existence above and beyond any other God, perhaps your faith is misplaced?

 

[2-0-NINE]

Yes I am the man to tell him that. You are all denying sound scientific knowledge because it refutes the existence of your God.

First of all No, you'd say to me if I said, God has ordained to remove Science. Secondly, who is this you, that you refer to when speaking about Denying Scientific Knowledge? Science has yet to prove God is false.

Why do we even need scientific knowledge to refute your Gods existence? Doesn't the fact that THERE IS NO EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT HIS EXISTENCE kinda rule out his existence, or at least make it highly improbable?

So you are saying there's a chance there is a god, even without physical proof? That's a first

Denying God, i.e. not choosing to believe in something that, for all intents and purposes, doesn't exist, is definitely not ignorance or self-deception.

Look at the Last Quote, and look at what you said now, you're contradicting yourself matie.

Many believers in God refuse to accept new knowledge and deliberately close their eyes and stuff fingers in their ears when scientific knowledge is put forth

Depends whether this knew knowledge actually makes sense, or is 100% Proven! Until a theory becomes a law, I'll shut up, but so far in Science there is no law proving the non-existence in God.

Seriously, what if I honestly believed in the flying spaghetti monster?

Don't give me that bullshit, I know this shit already

Would you honestly support my beliefs?

Ok, mate did they ever worship a flying spaghetti in History?

No, you would not. You would tell me that 'believing in the flying spaghetti monster is retarded, do you really think 'he' exists?"

Well Jesus was God incarnate and he was documented. Just like George Washington. Or should we just simply submit ourselves to the doctrines of Science, because after all it proves everything, even coincidences etc.

Your God is just a different form of the flying spaghetti monster and you deceive yourselves every day into believing that he ACTUALLY exists!

Ok, just like how the British think the Aborigines were animals huh? How Kangaroos resemble the British more when they came to Australia so they became a team to fight against the aborigines.