Single Greatest Problem / Threat to our Society

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What is the single greatest (or multiple greatest) danger to out societal well-being?

  • Atheism / Paganism / "Heathen" Religions

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    43
Dec 25, 2003
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#41
Again I will ask you WHY do these people feel this way? Who are these people and do they have ANY links to american government and companies? If not do they have ANY links to European companies? Who are the parties involved in financing them and do they have influence in nato/u.n, CFR or TLC?
The Arab League is made up of almost every Arabic country - with the exception of Iran and Turkey, if you would call that an Arab country. Iran's secret service, and the country of Iran, are probably as economically distant from the US as one could get. Yasser Araft and the PLO recieved the majority of funding from five or 6 Arab countries. Their links to the US and US business associations are fairly obvious, but find me one country in the world that does not have links - directly or indirectly - to the US. I doubt its possible.

Arab nations are not involved in the TLC, and aside from a few correspondents on the ground, contribute little to the CFR. These are not Coca-Cola and Johnson and Johnson agents. They are representative of much of the public sentiment in Arab communities.

Read the fatwas of Muslim priests and clerics - Sunni and Shiia, left-wing, moderate, and conservative, at the start of Iraq War 2. They all call for a defensive jihad against the US-led invaders. Bin Laden has been claiming this point since 1996. Ayatollah Khomeini fomented it in 1980.

1. How do YOU know that when Mohammed was on his death bed he called the Jews "infidels that have no business in the holy land"?
That was an incorrect paraphrase. What he said was "two religions should not exist on the Arabian peninsula". Essnetially, conquer it all for Islam and drive out anyone else. Refer to earlier writings in the Quran about militarily dealing with Christians and Jews.

2. Were Yasser Arafat, Moammar Qadafi, and Hafaz al Assad, utilized like Bin Laden and Hussein? Were they FUNDED like Bin Laden and Hussein? Did they have major BUSINESS investments/ventures with the u.s. like Bin Laden and Hussein?
No. However, the US has a long history of funding shady ass dictators for shitty reasons. Had our South American allies not turned guns on their own people, we would be facing bin Ladens from down South. And the fact that they had ties to the US government at one or another point in time is, once again, applicable to most foreign dictators and many world players.

If you answer NO to the above questions, but still believe these men scored high in a poll (popularity contest of no relevence)and received endorsement from arabs because of their "anti-american" views you are insane.
America "funds" and "has ties to" a vast majority of the governments in the world. The players we tend to back tend to be who we can fight with through proxy. In some cases, the US funds both sides of a war, much like American corporations giving to Republicans and Democrats.

Are you suggesting, then, that even Arab popular media is run by the US Government? How long has this been going on for? Does the US pay the clerics who advocate nuclear war against it? Al-Jazira? Al-Ansar? If your answers are YES to all these questions, you are equally insane.

US ineptitude in Middle Eastern public relations policy alone attests to the fact that our elected officials are far too ignorant on the Middle East to implement any sort of "counter-counter-counter US" media monopoly in order to influence Arab public opinion.

Excuse me, but the poll is not exclusive to arabs. Why are you showing me this? Do you believe the majority of people who voted in those polls are arabs? If so can you provide the demographic? Al Jazeera has over 50 million viewers and you can't even begin to tell me where these people are located. Not only that, but when non-arab governments admit to planting stories in arab media it kinda causes you to think:
The US implants in Iraq are a unique situation. Only in Iraq, a country completely decimated at this point and highly susceptible to US suggestion (we have troops stationed there in large scale) could this happen. In fact, if the US implanted stories about "how good" Iraq is going, doesn't this undermine your "We start Middle Eastern chaos" theory? What is it H, do we cause Arab mass media through mind control to teach everyone to hate us, or love us?

You are right I am going to claim you know nothing of the real story. If you had mentioned the deal between Prince Turki al-Faisal and Osama or talked about Sheikh Abdullah Azzam and what Osama learned from him I would not claim that you know nothing of the real story. If you were to mention Arbusto or Carlyle I wouldn't be ready to google your "common knowledge" and laugh at you for cutting and pasting wikipedia scraps.
I knew about John Birch because my eighth grade teacher was in the John Birch society and she used to give me a ride home. This was where I got exposed to Illuminati and globalist theories. I googled because I had forgotten both the name of the book I read and who else the whole Birch thing was connected to.

Arbusto was a drop in the bucket. A whopping total of 50,000 dollars of bin Laden money was invested in Texas Oil. Osama bin Laden himself was worth 9 million dollars (conservative estimate) in 1982, at the time of Arbusto's beginning. Pointing to a 50k venture capital investment as proof of something when the bin Laden family has an investment portfolio of potentially billions (including margin and leverage buying) seems quite hopeful, actually.

The Carlyle group is actually a pretty well-known story. They're a giant group of war profiteers, largely from the US and foreign governments who use their contacts to speculate on wars and the defense industry. Some say that the Carlyle group starts wars. How one could view the Carlyle group is a sort of chicken-egg conundrum; Are wars started to benefit the Carlyle group, or does the Carlyle group benefit from wars? It's a matter of perspective. It's something that could be viewed from either lens.

The bin Laden - Carlyle connection is minimal. The bin Laden family is a huge investment entity. In addition, after 9/11, the bin Laden family was bought out from their stake in Carlyle. When you talk about international finance, there are hundreds of millions of dollars necessary to even get your foot in the door. It's a small world at that point. The significance of Arbusto and Carlyle in terms of September 11th is simply reactionary finger-pointing because of an infamous last name.

When you talk about people with billions to invest, they probably don't even know where 50k is going. In addition, the bin Laden stake in Carlyle was sold after September 11th, before they could even profit from Afghanistan and Iraq.

I didn't mention the Carlyle group because of a lack of significance to the dicussion.

What you just listed can be applicable to Jesus, John the Baptist or Elijah. Do you see "christians" or "jews" blowing shit up? No, so stop trying to make it seem as if this Osama Bin Laden character is some prophet of doom or hero with a large following of members and radicals crashing planes into buildings and making video tapes. You will obviously reply with something along the lines of "well they are muslims they are not jews and christians". SAVE IT!
So is there no Osama bin Laden? Does the culture of jihad and the American policies which the Muslim world absolutely detest have no effect? Do the economic policies of the IMF and World Bank have no effect?
 

HERESY

THE HIDDEN HAND...
Apr 25, 2002
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#48
The Arab League is made up of almost every Arabic country - ... Their links to the US and US business associations are fairly obvious, but find me one country in the world that does not have links - directly or indirectly - to the US. I doubt its possible.

Arab nations are not involved in the TLC, and aside from a few correspondents on the ground, contribute little to the CFR. ...

Read the fatwas of Muslim priests and clerics - Sunni and Shiia, left-wing, moderate, and conservative, ...Bin Laden has been claiming this point since 1996. Ayatollah Khomeini fomented it in 1980.
Do you realize you are not answering the questions? If the countries you listed have no dealings with the CFR or TLC why does the CFR have a middle east program? If the countries in the region have no dealings with the TLC why are TLC members doing BUSINESS with them?

Why are you suggesting I read fatwas when YOU read islamic writings and misconstrue them? Stop saying muslims in this area believe this and muslims and that area believe that (these people represent XY and Z.) You have NO proof on what those muslims believe and how they feel. IF Osama calls for defensive Jihad SO WHAT?

That was an incorrect paraphrase. What he said was "two religions should not exist on the Arabian peninsula". Essnetially, conquer it all for Islam and drive out anyone else. Refer to earlier writings in the Quran about militarily dealing with Christians and Jews.
Yeah I will have to read it on my own because you are paraphrasing statements and making it seem as if the man called for total extermination of jews. If it was an incorrect phrase DON'T post it or at LEAST look into it before you post it.

America "funds" and "has ties to" a vast majority of the governments in the world. The players we tend to back tend to be who we can fight with through proxy. In some cases, the US funds both sides of a war, much like American corporations giving to Republicans and Democrats.
Remember this statement because I will come back to it later on in the post.

Are you suggesting, then, that even Arab popular media is run by the US Government?
Al jazeera survived from public donations. I don't know WHO donated teh money to keep it alive. What I AM suggesting is the POLL you linked me to as evidence is OPEN to EVERYONE who wants to partake in it. That includes black males in the bay area california and people in the bay area who claim to be cancer patients. With that being said you CANNOT expect me to take those poll numbers seriously.

Does the US pay the clerics who advocate nuclear war against it? Al-Jazira? Al-Ansar?
Possibly.

If your answers are YES to all these questions, you are equally insane.
Possibly but not as insane as someone linking me to a poll and implying the poll represents the majority of the mid east.

US ineptitude in Middle Eastern public relations policy alone attests to the fact that our elected officials are far too ignorant on the Middle East to implement any sort of "counter-counter-counter US" media monopoly in order to influence Arab public opinion.
This is what you believe. I believe the opposite. The elected american leaders (who are actually SELECTED) are not idiots. They know what they are doing in the region and they know why they are doing it.

The US implants in Iraq are a unique situation. Only in Iraq, a country completely decimated at this point and highly susceptible to US suggestion (we have troops stationed there in large scale) could this happen. In fact, if the US implanted stories about "how good" Iraq is going, doesn't this undermine your "We start Middle Eastern chaos" theory? What is it H, do we cause Arab mass media through mind control to teach everyone to hate us, or love us?
What proof do you have that the situation is unique and has never happened before? In some cases, the US funds both sides of a war, much like American corporations giving to Republicans and Democrats. Remember that...

I knew about John Birch because my eighth grade teacher was in the John Birch society and she used to give me a ride home.
Did you hit it? :confused:

This was where I got exposed to Illuminati and globalist theories. I googled because I had forgotten both the name of the book I read and who else the whole Birch thing was connected to.
What I am typing has little to do with illuminati and globalist theories.



I will tackle the rest tommorow I have to bounce.
 
Dec 25, 2003
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#49
We will consistently run into problems in this debate - simply because the base nature of what we deem the facts varies greatly. If we cannot agree on fundamental elements of the argument, it will turn into a neverending post war similar to those espoused by tadou.

I believe the CFR is essentially a (usually) center-right-leaning global politics thinktank; you believe it is an impetus for manipulation and control. (At least, from what I gather)

Those polls I posted were in fact a very poor representation of Muslim public opinion. They were possibly even misrepresentative. My problem lies in the fact that it is often difficult to find online sources which you have read in print. Essentially, my ideas on Arab public opinion still stand.

My talks with Middle Easterners in the US have tended to produce the same results as the polls I have read of and the writings and translations I've read. TLC members often are large, well-established business entities on their own, and thus I wouldn't be surprised if they have had or do have dealings with Arab nations.

My view, though, is that they are more in search of profit than hegemony. Once again, this puts me highly at odds with you. Thematic quagmire, most likely.

I also believe that Arab media is, for the most part, representative of Arab public opinion, though large discrepancies do and may exist. However I think it would be a stretch to view what happened in Iraq as endemic to Arab media.
 

HERESY

THE HIDDEN HAND...
Apr 25, 2002
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www.godscalamity.com
www.godscalamity.com
#50
You are diggin from the bucket right here. You do not know me.
Likewise.

Tool as in puppet. And as far as people with no real interest, you would not be concerned with reading a Mclean dissection on the stupidity of "liberals". We all are here either to gain knowledge, promote discussion, or educate. People who were not here for the "golden years" simply see what they see and judge it.
I would love to read a Mclean dissection on the stupidity of liberals because I know what will happen. As soon as he posts it someone will hand him a new one and I'll laugh at it. I don't care about what the people see and judge. The people you speak of are most likely incapable of making rational thought anyway.

There is a genuine belief among Neocons that you have to "break eggs to make an omelette". There is, rooted in a philosophy and the worldview of many in the Bush cabinet, a genuine belief that better times will come for the Iraqi people because of the American invasion, as well as a possible "ally in the War on Terror", potential military base, oil supply, etc.
You don't believe this. You do NOT honestly believe the Bush cabinet has a genuine belief that better times will come for the iraqi people. The bush administration doesn't give a shit about the Iraqi people. BTW are the leading neocons members of the CFR and TLC?

Leaders make decisions that suit their interests and their respective worldviews.
Exactly and the leaders of the west are members of the SKULL & BONES, WORLD BANK, BILDERBERGS, CLUB of ROME, TLC and CFR.

The fact that women and children are dying is secondary to the belief that without "attacking" the "terrorists" more women and children will die, potentially in the US, and better theirs than ours. On the flipside, though, there is a genuine belief that better things will come for Iraqis after the fact. The administration and its rather deluded cabaal believed this even before 9/11 - a sort of Pax Americana concept - that because of America's size and wealth it should hold the power to act unilaterally, police the world, and serve its own interests and values, which are inexorably linked.
Less women and children would have died if sanctions were lifted. The ONLY way I can accept your point as valid is if it were compared to the invasion of north america and afrika by europeans. "We are bringing christianity and salvation to the heathen." , "We are bringing life and food to the heaten.", "We are bringing culture and values to the savage." If you are implying they think like that sure I will agree with you, and I will also point out that MONEY and GREED is THE driving force.

The CFR is a thinktank.
A thinktank comprised of former presidents, world leaders, rich men, media moguls and business owners. Men of influence who HAVE influenced and manipulated the world.

The TLC is a glorified talk panel.
A glorified talk panel comprised of former presidents, world leaders, rich men, media moguls and business owners. Men of influence who HAVE influenced and manipulated the world.

The World Bank and the IMF need to be destroyed and abolished, I agree, but linking the TLC and CFR to any sort of significant change I disagree with.
If the world bank and imf need to be abolished why shouldn't the cfr or tlc? ALL of them have an interlocking leadership and ALL of them pretty much appoint the SAME people over and over.

The maiming and killing is tertiary. World leaders play a very large game of chess, with big pieces at stake.
Who are these world leaders? From what I have come to learn the major players are members of the tlc, bilderbergs and cfr. The big pieces are NUKES, OIL, ECONOMIC DOMINANCE and ISRAEL.

In the simple mind of Bush, beating a bunch of small guys leads to the boss at the end of the level. If you read neocon philosophy, there is a very concrete theme running throughout - a perhaps divine appointment and responsibility to keep peace and order throughout the galaxy.
And their doctrine/dogma is actually traced to OCCULT origins. The boss at the end of the level will lead DIRECTLY back to the white house.


Yes, I believe the "puppet" version.
9/11 happened because of

American support for Israel, Russia, China, India, Algeria, and Uzbekistan. American staging of troops in Saudi Arabia.
The Islamic Revolution of 1980. Bush, Clinton and other presidents refusal to take hard steps against Israel.
American protection of Muslim tyrannies such as Egypt, Kuwait, and Qatar. American efforts to control oil policy and pricing.
You are entitled to your beliefs I have pretty much stated why I don't believe the way you do.

It's the unfortunate state of our world today. And the private parties who have control over currency are largely many millions of individual investors, moreso than the printing presses of any nations or the regulatory capacity of any private or public organization. Currency speculation has a larger effect on currency than anything else.
The private parties who have control over currency does not go into the millions. Are you implying investors, people who purchase stocks etc? These are not the people I am talking about. The private parties who have control over currency (especially americana nd euro currency) are bankers and global elite.

Buried in the stupidity and bumbling of Bush, Blair, and friends there is a genuine desire to promote stability in the world.
Your opinion. Facts prove otherwise.

Bush and Blair would not have invaded Iraq if they didn't think it could work. Knowing what anyone with half a brain would know about the possibility of success in Iraq, none of us would make that decision.
Bush and Blair invaded Iraq because they were given orders to.

However, you mix 9/11 with an idiot president, and our bumbling foreign policy is the result.
Some would say so. I would say america attacking its own people, a president taking orders from his investors/superiors, lust for oil and a stable dollar and manipulation of media to manufacture stories and anti arab feelings = the war on terrorism.
 
Dec 25, 2003
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#53
I did I've been in the habit of copying before I post but I had to get off quickly.

garbage...

I'll summarize.

1. The CFR and TLC have different reaches/agendas than the World Bank and IMF. It's like abolishing the NYSE because NYSE investors also hold heavy stakes in Nasdaq.

2. We will always disagree as to the nature, objectives, and power of the TLC/CFR. I argue that membership is often given to those with substantial power, and those people state goals, objectives, and directives, but they are not followed to the letter. Often, the TLC and CFR's statements conflict with major Western powers, moves, and ideas. This would seem to posit that their function is in an advisory capacity that is limited and often ignored.

3. The private parties I speak of with control of the currencies are privte and public investment entities. The global currency trade exceeds 1.9 trillion dollars in transaction every day. Currency speculators have singlehandedly created and destroyed the economies of small countries. This is part of the reason China attempts to keep the yuan as artificially low as possible, to keep currency speculation in the yuan from the realm of profitability. Those who trade in currency (largely single investors and small-scale companies and firms) have more power to influence currency rates and money supply than even the American Fed or international banking standards consortiums.

China's continual buying of American bonds and T-Bills is an example of this. If China stopped investing in the dollar tomorrow, we could see a market crash equivalent to 87 crash, far exceeding the tech bubble burst and 9/11 economy that sent the market reeling from 00-01.

In fact, some economists predict that if certain economic fears come to fruition, we could see the American economy take the biggest shit it has in 50 years. Those factors are: China stops buying currency, Baby boomer generation reaches retirement age and cashes out retirement savings and pensions, the "housing bubble" some see coming (Though i personally doubt it), and a 'super-spike' in oil prices brought upon by instability in the Middle East combined with South American oil nationalization and the dissolving of free trade "progress" in the region.