Researchers identified the part of the brain responsible for deja vu

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May 13, 2002
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By Julie Steenhuysen
CHICAGO (Reuters)

Most people have had deja vu -- that eerie sense of having experienced something before -- but U.S. researchers have identified the part of the brain responsible for this sensation, and they think it may lead to new treatments for memory-related problems.


They said neurons in a memory center of the brain called the hippocampus make a mental map of new places and experiences, then store them away for future use.

But when two experiences begin to seem very much alike, these mental maps overlap and start to blur.

"Deja vu occurs when this ability is challenged," said Susumu Tonegawa, a professor of biology and neuroscience at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Cambridge, whose work appears in the journal Science.

It is really just a malfunction in the brain's ability to sort through new information, something called episodic memory.

"This is very important for an intelligent animal like human beings so you know what's going on around you and you can recall it later," said Tonegawa in a telephone interview.

He and colleagues studied mice that were genetically altered to lack a gene in a specific part of the hippocampus called the dentate gyrus, which they found to be critical in forming the ability to sort through similar experiences.

Mice who lacked this ability were moved from one cage to a second, similar cage and then back to the first cage. In one cage, they got a mild electrical shock to the foot. In the other, they did not.

The mutant mice associated both cages with danger and began to freeze when placed in either cage -- they could not determine in which cage they got shocked.

Healthy mice quickly learned the difference and only froze in the dangerous cage.

When the researchers tested the animals' brain activity, the mutant mice reacted similarly in both cages, but the brain activity of the healthy mice was different in each.

Tonegawa said the type of memory that allows people to quickly distinguish different faces and places fades with age.

"Since we know the molecular and cellular pathway based on our results, there is a possibility to use those molecular targets to develop a drug to improve this connection," he said.

That is especially the case for neurodegenerative diseases like Alzheimer's.

He said the study settles 35 years of debate over how the brain can distinguish between similar places and experiences.

"One big question about the memory is now taken care of," he said.





This just shows how susceptible the brain is to fooling itself. Much like ghosts and other so called psychic apparitions.
 
Apr 25, 2002
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havin' someone in the family with dementia.. i hope this is one step closer to diseases like that... it's too late for us.. but hopefully that won't be the case for others in the future.
 

ThaG

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Jun 30, 2005
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I am wondering what all those people who are desperately trying to promote the existence of some immaterial "soul" are going to say in 50 years when all brain activities have already been explained molecularly
 

Hemp

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Sep 5, 2005
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nothing has been explained that wasnt already known.

of course the consciousness comes from within the brain, or part of the brain for such, but that doesnt explain shit.
 
Aug 6, 2006
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I don't buy this at all, this study is easily seen as a joke. What they're describing sounds nothing like Deja Vu and I've(along with millions of others) had Deja Vu from dreams, so how do similar places and experiences explain that(not to mention getting it from dissimilar places you've never been to)? The arrogance of humanity in their self-proclamation of all knowingness is appalling given the blunders they make in over-looking inane details in their quest to simplify long-lived anomalies such as DeJa Vu, and expect every one to appeal to authority and take it at face value..... Please!


2-0-Sixx said:
"One big question about the memory is now taken care of," he said.
^Hahaha, don't get ahead of yourself pal.. Obviously this publication along with the hastyness of his conclusion has more to do with his own aggrandizement than actual "science".:cool:
 

ThaG

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ParkBoyz said:
I don't buy this at all, this study is easily seen as a joke. What they're describing sounds nothing like Deja Vu and I've(along with millions of others) had Deja Vu from dreams, so how do similar places and experiences explain that(not to mention getting it from dissimilar places you've never been to)? The arrogance of humanity in their self-proclamation of all knowingness is appalling given the blunders they make in over-looking inane details in their quest to simplify long-lived anomalies such as DeJa Vu, and expect every one to appeal to authority and take it at face value..... Please!
If you read carefully, you would answer your questions

But you answered my question - "I don't buy this at all"
 
Aug 6, 2006
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^Actually I did read it all and your short-winded generalized reply has nothing to do with what I read.. Again, I brought up a few problems that the article didn't address.
 

ThaG

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Hemp said:
nothing has been explained that wasnt already known.

of course the consciousness comes from within the brain, or part of the brain for such, but that doesnt explain shit.
first, you need to define what consciousness is

second, you have to prove it exists

Only then it makes sense to look for explanation of consciousness

I can tell you consciousness in the sense most people understand it doesn't exist, neither does anything that is "uniquely human"

There is no feature of the human brain that is fundamentally different from other mammals, other than its complexity. The biochemistry is the same, the signaling mechanisms are the same, the neuronal circuitry is similar, the on;y difference is size and complexity.

The rest is human arrogance and selfishness...
 
Aug 6, 2006
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ThaG said:
first, you need to define what consciousness is

second, you have to prove it exists

^How hard is it to prove that consciousness exists and if scientists can't explain what it is, why would you put that burden on him?

ThaG said:
Only then it makes sense to look for explanation of consciousness

I can tell you consciousness in the sense most people understand it doesn't exist, neither does anything that is "uniquely human"
Since when was consciousness described as "uniquely human", and by whom?

ThaG said:
There is no feature of the human brain that is fundamentally different from other mammals, other than its complexity. The biochemistry is the same, the signaling mechanisms are the same, the neuronal circuitry is similar, the on;y difference is size and complexity.

The rest is human arrogance and selfishness...
Immaterial..
 

ThaG

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ParkBoyz said:
^Actually I did read it all and your short-winded generalized reply has nothing to do with what I read.. Again, I brought up a few problems that the article didn't address.
...

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2007/deja-vu-0607.html

Neuroscientists at the Picower Institute for Learning and Memory at MIT report in the June 7 early online edition of Science that they have identified for the first time a neuronal mechanism that helps us rapidly distinguish similar, yet distinct, places. The discovery helps explain the sensation of déjà vu.

The work could lead to treatments for memory-related disorders, as well as for the confusion and disorientation that plague elderly individuals who have trouble distinguishing between separate but similar places and experiences.

Forming memories of places and contexts in which episodes occur engages a part of the brain called the hippocampus. Study co-author Susumu Tonegawa, Picower Professor of Biology and Neuroscience, and colleagues have been exploring how each of the three hippocampal subregions--the dentate gyrus, CA1 and CA3--contribute to different aspects of learning and memory.

Tonegawa, a Howard Hughes Medical Institute investigator and a frequent world traveler, described his own occasional experience of finding the airport in a new city uncannily familiar. This occurs, he said, because of the similarity of the modules--gates, chairs, ticket counters--that comprise airports worldwide. It is only by seeking out unique cues that the specific airport can be identified, he said. "In this study, we have revealed that learning in the dentate gyrus is crucial in rapidly recognizing and amplifying the small differences that make each place unique," Tonegawa said.

In addition to Tonegawa, authors include Picower Institute research scientist Thomas J. McHugh; former MIT postdoctoral associate Matthew W. Jones; Matthew A. Wilson, Picower Scholar and Professor; and colleagues from the University of California at Los Angeles and Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center in Boston.

Overlapping blueprints

In this study, the researchers used a genetically altered mouse to pinpoint how the dentate gyrus contributes to the kind of pattern separation involved in telling the difference between new and old spaces.

Researchers believe that a set of neurons called place cells fire to provide a sort of blueprint for any new space we encounter. The next time we see the space, those same neurons fire. Thus we know when we've been somewhere before and don't have to relearn our way around familiar turf.

But if we enter a space very similar to one we have seen before, a new but overlapping set of neurons creates the blueprint. When there is enough overlap between the two sets, we experience an eerie feeling of déjà vu--a French phrase that literally means, "already seen."

As we age, or as neurodegenerative disease such as Alzheimer's advances, it becomes difficult to form unique memories for similar yet distinct places and experiences, leading to the confusion that afflicts some elderly individuals.
Forgetting fear

In experiments with mice genetically engineered to lack a certain gene in the dentate gyrus, Tonegawa and colleagues pinpointed the signaling pathway underlying the recall of specific places.

Different sets of mice were placed in two similar chambers, one of which gave them a mild foot shock. After three days, the mice began to freeze in fear in both chambers, even the one in which they had never been harmed.

Within two weeks, the normal mice learned to associate only one chamber with the foot shocks while recognizing the second as safe. The genetically engineered mice "had a significant but transient deficit in their ability to distinguish similar contexts," McHugh said. "This study shows that plasticity--the ability to change in response to experience--in the dentate gyrus contributes to spatial learning and fine-tuning pattern separation."

This work was supported by the National Institute for Mental Health and the National Institutes of Health.
 

ThaG

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ParkBoyz said:
^How hard is it to prove that consciousness exists and if scientists can't explain what it is, why would you put that burden on him?
To start proving it exists, you need a good definition to begin with, which is not available yet

Since when was consciousness described as "uniquely human", and by whom?
Did I say that?

I know quote mining is the favorite creationists tactic, but I also think I've told you hundreds of times not to use it...

Immaterial..
Immaterial what?

I am amazed how stupid some people can be...

If you claim there is something immaterial inside us, you need to explain how this immaterial thing influences our very material bodies....

Scientists are still waiting for creationists to explain that and we will keep waiting forever.

How could an immaterial soul make me type these words with my material fingers, nerves and muscles?
 
Aug 6, 2006
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^Again, your appeals to authority only expose your lack of comprehension. Making me read what I just read instead of addressing what was written is beyond lazy, especially given the fact that your bold prints did not address what I said and I already addressed them. Again..

ParkBoyz said:
I've(along with millions of others) had Deja Vu from dreams, so how do similar places and experiences explain that(not to mention getting it from dissimilar places you've never been to)?
 
Dec 25, 2003
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Deja vu and other 'mystical' religious experiences are proven to be reported more by people who already have religious beliefs or whose brains are wired for those beliefs.

One funny thing about the whole 'deja vu' thing is when psychologists screen for mental illness, they often ask people if they have deja vu, if they can read thoughts, see things other people can't, or have mystical experiences. These things are often signs of psychoses or schizotypal behavior.
 
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ThaG said:
To start proving it exists, you need a good definition to begin with, which is not available yet

^Are you only pretending to be dumb or did you "evolve" that way? It is the substance that allows you to be conscious, substance in which you obviously lack..


ThaG said:
Did I say that?
You implied it..

ThaG said:
I know quote mining is the favorite creationists tactic, but I also think I've told you hundreds of times not to use it...
Throwing around blanket terms like "creationist" won't help you atheist.. No tactics are needed when anyone can simply be straight forward and run right over you with ease.



ThaG said:
Immaterial what?
Basically most of what you're saying is irrelevant and lacks substance..

ThaG said:
I am amazed how stupid some people can be...
"Stupid people" are amazed by a lot of things, even the most simple of things..

ThaG said:
If you claim there is something immaterial inside us, you need to explain how this immaterial thing influences our very material bodies....
And I'm stupid? WTF are you talking about, can you please go look up the word "immaterial" and try and put the first definition in context. Fucking dimwit, lol..
http://www.answers.com/immaterial

ThaG said:
Scientists are still waiting for creationists to explain that and we will keep waiting forever.
Straw Man(see above)..

ThaG said:
How could an immaterial soul make me type these words with my material fingers, nerves and muscles?

Straw Man(see above)
 
Aug 6, 2006
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WHITE DEVIL said:
Deja vu and other 'mystical' religious experiences are proven to be reported more by people who already have religious beliefs or whose brains are wired for those beliefs.

One funny thing about the whole 'deja vu' thing is when psychologists screen for mental illness, they often ask people if they have deja vu, if they can read thoughts, see things other people can't, or have mystical experiences. These things are often signs of psychoses or schizotypal behavior.
I assume that you have a source to back these mis-guided claims, No?
 
Dec 25, 2003
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deja_Vu#Links_with_disordersLinks with disorders

A clinical correlation has been found between the experience of déjà vu and disorders such as schizophrenia and anxiety,[9] and the likelihood of the experience considerably increases with subjects having these conditions. However, the strongest pathological association of déjà vu is with temporal lobe epilepsy.[10][11] This correlation has led some researchers to speculate that the experience of déjà vu is possibly a neurological anomaly related to improper electrical discharge in the brain. As most people suffer a mild (i.e. non-pathological) epileptic episode regularly (e.g. the sudden "jolt", a hypnagogic jerk, that frequently occurs just prior to falling asleep), it is conjectured that a similar (mild) neurological aberration occurs in the experience of déjà vu, resulting in an erroneous sensation of memory.

[edit] Pharmacology

It has been reported that certain recreational drugs increase the chances of déjà vu occurring in the user. Some pharmaceutical drugs, when taken together, have also been implicated in the cause of déjà vu. Taiminen and Jääskeläinen (2001) reported the case of an otherwise healthy male who started experiencing intense and recurrent sensations of déjà vu on taking the drugs amantadine and phenylpropanolamine together to relieve flu symptoms. He found the experience so interesting that he completed the full course of his treatment and reported it to the psychologists to write-up as a case study. Due to the dopaminergic action of the drugs and previous findings from electrode stimulation of the brain (e.g. Bancaud, Brunet-Bourgin, Chauvel, & Halgren, 1994), Taiminen and Jääskeläinen speculate that déjà vu occurs as a result of hyperdopaminergic action in the mesial temporal areas of the brain.


In addition, I dont see why you have to come on here and defend every attack on any sort of mystic and psychic phenomena as some sort of affront to Theism. Are you the guarder of all things holy? I don't believe you have stated belief in a formal religion, so are you some sort of nondenominational witch doctor, or what?
 

ThaG

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Jun 30, 2005
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ParkBoyz said:
^Are you only pretending to be dumb or did you "evolve" that way? It is the substance that allows you to be conscious, substance in which you obviously lack..




You implied it..



Throwing around blanket terms like "creationist" won't help you atheist.. No tactics are needed when anyone can simply be straight forward and run right over you with ease.





Basically most of what you're saying is irrelevant and lacks substance..



"Stupid people" are amazed by a lot of things, even the most simple of things..



And I'm stupid? WTF are you talking about, can you please go look up the word "immaterial" and try and put the first definition in context. Fucking dimwit, lol..
http://www.answers.com/immaterial



Straw Man(see above)..




Straw Man(see above)
...

i
m·ma·te·ri·al (ĭm'ə-tîr'ē-əl) pronunciation
adj.

1. Of no importance or relevance; inconsequential or irrelevant.
2. Having no material body or form.

immaterially im'ma·te'ri·al·ly adv.
immaterialness im'ma·te'ri·al·ness n.

SYNONYMS immaterial, incorporeal, insubstantial, metaphysical, spiritual. These adjectives mean lacking material body, form, or substance: immaterial apparitions; an incorporeal spirit; insubstantial victories; metaphysical forces; spiritual beings. See also synonyms at irrelevant.
 
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WHITE DEVIL said:
In addition, I dont see why you have to come on here and defend every attack on any sort of mystic and psychic phenomena as some sort of affront to Theism. Are you the guarder of all things holy? I don't believe you have stated belief in a formal religion, so are you some sort of nondenominational witch doctor, or what?
1) This is why it is always important(especially when relying on wikipedia) to check the sources since from what I can see, the source used reports no correlation between Deja Vu and "psychoses or schizophrenic behavior", this was original research on your part if we're to be genuine here...
http://www.pni.org/books/deja_vu_info.html (see causes of Deja Vu)

2) This contradicts the assumptions of the article posted in this thread or at least offers alternate theories.


3) Your last comment/question is immaterial..:cool: