QUESTIONS FOR CHRISTIANS OR THOSE WHO ADHERE TO THE BIBLE ONLY

miggidy · Mar 28, 2003

^^^^
Bravo! The real first American ninja!

I'm going to get scripture regarding the rapture and I would like both Heresy and Yehuda to explain it to me.
Jesus clearly says that he will gather his people before the end comes. Those who remain will go through great tribulation but will still have a chance to be saved in Judgment day.

HERESY · Mar 28, 2003

^^^ok. you wanna go first or you want me to go first?

first we need to come to agreement on what the rapture is. so in a nutchell this is it:

RAPTURE: jesus is coming in the clouds BEFORE the seven year tribulation period. when he comes he will raise the dead FIRST. after that those who believe in him(follow him etc etc etc) will be transformed in a twinkling of an eye. they will be raised up to the clouds and will meet jesus. they will go to heaven for 7 years and return after the tribulation period.

you have 3 views on the rapture.

pre trib,mid trib and post (no rapture)

mid trib happens when the 7 year covenent is broken. it happens 3 1/2 years into it.

post trib is after tribulation. not gathering to go to the clouds etc etc etc.

so if you would like to clarify or add to my definition feel free.

:H:

Gizmo · Mar 28, 2003

LMAO @ your Location Heresy.

ReservoirDog · Mar 28, 2003

LMAO nice....

miggidy · Mar 31, 2003

Heresy, the rapture is real.
Not real in the sense that most Christians think of it.

Jesus will gather his elect before he begins the destruction of Earth. But this doesn't mean he's gonna pull everyone.

Mark 13:20
If the Lord had not cut short those days, no one would survive.
But for the sake of his elect, whom he has chosen, he has shortened them.

23 So be on your guard; I have told you everything ahead of time.

26 At that time men will see the Son of Man coming in the clowds with great power and glory.
And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds,
from the ends of the Earth and to the ends of the heavens.

Revelation 7
After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the Earth,
holding back the four winds of the Earth to prevent any wind from
blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree.
Then I saw another angel coming from the east,
having the seal of the living God.
He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea;
'Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God".
Then I heard the number of those who were sealed:
144,000 from all tribes of Isreal.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is the rapture of 144,000 people.... That is if you wanna call it that....

Most Christians get this twisted with the following scripture:

Matthew 24:39
That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.
Two men will be in the field;
one will be taken and the other left.
Two women will be grinding with a handmill;
one will be taken and the other left.
Therefore keep watch,
because you do not know on what day your Lord will come.
But understand this;
If the owner of a house had known at what time of night the thief was coming,
he would have kept watch and would have not let his house be broken into.
So you also must be ready,
because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here Jesus is talking about judgment day and not the rapture of the 144,000.

This is the way I understand it, at least.

Owen · Mar 31, 2003

1) yes

2) yes

ReservoirDog · Mar 31, 2003

God Diagnosed With Bipolar Disorder

HERESY · Apr 1, 2003

TO EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES IN THE RAPTURE DO YOU KNOW ABOUT MANUEL LACUNZA OR MARGARET MCDONALD?

@MIGG YOU PRESENTED Mark 13:20-26 AS PROOF OF THE RAPTURE. THE DAYS (MEANING THE TIME) WILL BE SHORTENED (WILL NOT GO ON FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME) SO THAT HUMANITY CAN SURVIVE. IF THE LORD DOES NOT STEP IN MAN KIND WILL WIPE HIMSELF OUT. HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE? I HAVE A NUKE AND YOU HAVE A NUKE...POINTED AT EACH OTHER....

SEVERAL VERSES DEAL WITH THE ANGELS GATHERING THE PEOPLE FROM THE EARTH. HERE IS WHERE THE PROBLEM COMES IN.Matthew 13:24-30. HERE YOU HAVE A PARABLE OF THE SAME THING YOU LISTED ONLY IT GOES DEEPER.

1.BOTH WHEAT *AND* TARE GROW TOGETHER UNTIL THE TIME OF HARVEST.

2.THE REAPERS ARE SENT TO GATHER THE *TARES* AND *BIND* THEM *AND* BURN THEM.

3.THE REAPERS ARE TOLD TO GATHER THE WHEAT AND PLACE IT IN THE BARN.

MATT 24:29-31 HAS YESHUA SPEAKING ABOUT THE END TIMES. HE SPECIFICALLY SAYS (VERSE 29)"Immediately after the tribulation of those days". IN VERSE 30 A SIGN IS SEEN FIRST AND THEN THE SON OF MAN IS SEEN. IN 31 HE SENDS HIS ANGELS AGAIN. TO GATHER HIS PEOPLE. READ VERSE *9* ALSO.

MARK 13:11-27 DEALS WITH THIS ISSUE. PAY ATTENTION TO VERSE 13,14,19 AND 24. 14 DEALS WITH "THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION" (***STUDY THIS***). AFTER THAT READ THIS 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4. YOU HAVE A FALLING AWAY FIRST (APOSTASY) AFTER THAT YOU HAVE THE MAN OF SIN BEING REVEALED.1 Peter 3:14-19 SHOULD BE READ ALSO.

COMPARE Mat 25:10 TO REV 19:1-7

NOW HERE IS WHERE A PRE TRIB RAPTURE VIEW SIMPLY CRUMBLES. IN FACT THIS IS WERE THE BELIEFS OF JEHOVAHS WITNESS CRUMBLE ALSO (AS YOU WILL SEE).

IN REV 6:1-11 YOU HAVE 5 SEALS BEING BROKEN(6 WERE BROKEN IN THE ENTIRE CHAPTER). WHEN THE 5TH IS BROKEN THE MARTYRS SPEAK,THEY ARE GIVEN A ROBE AND ARE TOLD TO WAIT UNTIL THEIR BROTHERS ARE KILLED.

AFTER THESE SEALS ARE BROKEN THE TRIBES ARE SEALED IN CHAPTER 7. I SEE NOTHING TO SUPPORT THE 144,000 BEING TAKEN AWAY. REV 14:1-6 GIVES INFO ABOUT THE 144,00.

1.THEY LEARN AND SING A SONG THAT ONLY THEY CAN SING.

2.THEY HAVE NOT BEEN DEFILED WITH WOMEN. THEY ARE *VIRGINS*.

3.THEY ARE HEBREWS. 12,000 FROM EACH TRIBE.

NOW IF JEHOVAHS WITNESS ARE THE 144,000 WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO THE WOMEN?

THE BIBLE CLEARLY STATES THAT THEY ARE MEN WHO ARE ***VIRGINS***. THAT WOULD ELIMINATE ***ANY*** JEHOVA'S WITNESS FEMALE. IN FACT IT ELIMATES *ANY* JEHOVAHS WITNESS THAT DOESNT HAVE HEBREW BLOOD.

EITHER THE ENTIRE 144,000 IS SYMBOLIC OR ITS LITERAL.

THE PROBLEM WITH THE 144,000 AND RAPTURE IS SIMPLY THIS.

WHERE WERE THEY SEALED? HEAVEN OR EARTH?

WHEN WERE THEY RAPTURED?

NOW TURN TO REV 7:13-17.PAY ATTENTION TO VERSE 14.

IN REV 13:1-18 YOU HAVE THE BEAST RISING FROM THE SEA. IN VERSE 7-8 YOU HAVE TWO THINGS GOING ON.

1.POWER IS GIVEN TO TO THE BEAST TO MAKE *WAR* WITH TEH SAINTS *AND* TO OVERCOME THEM.

2.ALL THAT DWELL ON THE EARTH WHO'S NAME IS *NOT* WRITTEN IN THE LAMBS BOOK OF LIFE WILL WORSHIP THE BEAST.

IN VERSE 15 YOU HAVE PEOPLE BEING **KILLED** FOR NOT WORSHIPPING THE BEAST.

NOW THE PROBLEM WITH THIS IS VERY SIMPLE. IF THE RAPTURE OCCURS *BEFORE* THE TRIBULATION WHO ARE THE *SAINTS* THAT ARE SMASHED BY THE BEAST?

NOW HERE IS THE FINAL BLOW TO THE RAPTURE THEORY.

REV 20:1-6 KILLS IT.

VERSE 4 SHOWS THOSE WHO WERE BEHEADED FOR THE WITNESS OF YESHUA,AND THE WORD OF GOD AND WHO DID NOT WORSHIP THE BEAST,NEITHER HIS IMAGE NOR RECEIVED HIS MARK IN THE HAND OR FOREHEAD.VERSE 4 STATES THAT THEY LIVED AND REIGN WITH YESHUA FOR 1000 YEARS.

VERSE FIVE CALLS THIS *THE FIRST RESSURECTION*

HOW CAN YESHUA COME TO EARTH,RAISE THE DEAD FIRST,TAKE AWAY THE BELIEVERS AND GO TO HEAVEN BEFORE THE TRIBULATION? EITHER THIS IS TRUE OR VERSE 4 AND 5 ARE FALSE....

:h:

EDJ · Apr 1, 2003

HERESY,
HIT ME ON THE CELL PHEEZY OR gIVE ME A # AND TIME TO REACH YOU.

miggidy · Apr 1, 2003

Heresy,

That's what I was gettin at.
Matthew 24:39 is talking about Judgement Day itself and no pre doomsday rapture of those who believe in Christ.

And as for the 1,444,000 whom will be sealed, this is the only thing that comes close to any rapture.
Is it a rapture? I don't know, what I do know is that it's a seal of protection given to a certain elect who will be gathered.

Mark 13:26
"At that time men will see the Son of Man coming in the clowds with great power and glory.
And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds,
from the ends of the Earth and to the ends of the heavens."

This states that the 1,444,000 are both Earth and celestial beings. Man and spirit (at the very least).
But definately not the Jehova Witnesses.
Anyways, this verse shows that the 1,444,000 will actually be pulled.

I'm still soaking this info and I haven't finished reading Revelations yet, but good info.
What I got so far is that there is no Christian rapture prior to doomsday as most Protestants believe.
We agree there....

But I guess you don't subscribe that the 1,444,000 will be pulled.
Revelations says they will be sealed and Mark specifies that they will be gathered. Isn't gathered a form of rapture?

These "elect" will be sealed after the sixth seal is openned.
Meaning that the tribulation has already started.
The 7th seal is openned and then 5 out of seven angels with trumpets sound them off.
The 5th angel sounds off his trumpet then an angel falls to Earth and opens the Abyss. Out of the Abyss comes the locust who many believe are Demons. They will torcher everyone who does not have the seal of God on their forehead.
This is found in Revelation 9.
Which is now suggesting that the 1,444,000 with the seal whom were gathered are still on Earth.

Now before the 1,444,000 are sealed (whom are male virgins), the horsemen have already been unleashed and man is killing himself.
After the elect are gathered, then the Demons are set free on Earth and later comes the anti-christ....

This is what I got so far....

HERESY · Apr 1, 2003

^^^ I DONT USE THAT CELLY NUMBER ANYMORE. IF YOU ARE READING THIS I WILL BE HOME AT 8 SHARP AND HOME TILL 9:30.

U HAVE THE NUMBER MAN AND WHATS UP WITH THE TWINS??????

552 7962-707 AREA CODE.

HOLLA AT ME.

:h:

EDJ · Apr 1, 2003

THE TWINZ BEEN ASKIN' THE SAME QUESTIONS. YOU NEVA HOME BRUH.

BUT I'LL HIT YOUR ASS UP.

MIggIDY,
WHAT IS IT WITH YOU AND JEHOVAH WITNESSES? WHY YOU EVEN BRINgIN' THEM IN THE DISCUSSION? AND THE OTHA DISCUSSION ON THE OTHA THREAD AND THE OLD THREAD AND THE OTHA OLD THREAD?

miggidy · Apr 1, 2003

EDJ,

Because it is their founder whom was first to question the Holy Trinity and the devinity of Jesus Christ.

I have nothing against them,
I'm just pointin out their faults since they're always pushin their beliefs on people and are only adding to the mass confusion that plagues Christians in general.

Besides I think I was only quoting a few articles about JW's on my "Baptismal" thread.
I posted these articles because they covered the discussion that we had going in that particular thread.

EDJ · Apr 2, 2003

MIggIDY,
REgULAR PEOPLE QUESTION THE TRINITY AND OTHA PAgAN SOAKED TRADITIONS/BELIEFS INFUSED IN CHRISTIANITY. IF N-E-THANg JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES MAKES THE MOST SENSE TO ME AND UNTANgLE SET BELIEFS THAT TANgLE AND CONFUSE SO CALLED CHRISTIANS. THEY RESEARCH THEY SHIT, NOT JUST TALK OUT THEY ASS.
BUT IF YOU REALLY A CHRISTIAN WHY YOU gONNA TRY TO NAME OTHA PEOPLES FAULT(OR WHAT YOU PERCEIVE AS A FAULT) AND THEN FEEL AMUSED DOIN' SO? IF YOU ASK ME, THAT'S VERY UNCHRISTIAN-LIKE BEHAVIOR. BUT I AIN'T HERE TO JUDgE YOU CUZZ. DO WHAT YOU DO.

BY THE WAY, IF SOMEBODY gONNA QUESTION CONVENTIONAL THINKIN' AND DOgMA, AIN'T YOU ATLEAST gONNA PEEP gAME TO SEE WHAT THEY STRESSIN' INSTEAD OF gETTIN' ALL DEFENSIVE TO YOUR SET BELIEFS?

HERESY · Apr 2, 2003

I KNOW YOUR NOT TALKING TO ,ME BUT I HAD TO ANSWER

1.the bible CLEARLY states that the 144,000 are virgin males.12,000 FROM EACH tribe. rev 7:1-8 and rev 14:1-7

jehovahs witness claim that they are the 144,000.

where does that place jehovahs witness who are NOT hebrew? and which of the 12 tribes are they from? where do witness FEMALES go? IF THE MALES ARE FIGURATIVE ON WHAT GROUNDS IS THE 144,000 LITERAL?

2.here is what the bible says about FALSE PROPHETS AND PROPHECIES.Deut. 18:20-22

HERE IS WHAT THE WITNESSES HAVE SAID IN THE PAST.

1897 "Our Lord, the appointed King, is now present, since October 1874," Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 4, page 621.

1899 "...the ‘battle of the great day of God Almighty' (Revelation 16:14), which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership, is already commenced." The Time Is at Hand, page 101 (1908 edition).

1916 "The Bible chronology herein presented shows that the six great 1000 year days beginning with Adam are ended, and that the great 7th Day, the 1000 years of Christ's Reign, began in 1873." The Time Is at Hand, page ii, (forward).

1918 "Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, particularly those named by the Apostle in Hebrews 11, to the condition of human perfection." Millions Now Living Will Never Die, page 89.

1922 "The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the Scriptures than 1914." The Watchtower 9/1/22, page 262.

1923 "Our thought is, that 1925 is definitely settled by the Scriptures. As to Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge." The Watchtower, page 106 4/1/23.

1925 "The year 1925 is here. With great expectation Christians have looked forward to this year. Many have confidently expected that all members of the body of Christ will be changed to heavenly glory during this year. This may be accomplished. It may not be. In his own due time God will accomplish his purposes concerning his people. Christians should not be so deeply concerned about what may transpire this year." The Watchtower, 1/1/25, page. 3.

1925 "It is to be expected that Satan will try to inject into the minds of the consecrated, the thought that 1925 should see an end to the work." The Watchtower, Sept, 1925 page 262.

1926 "Some anticipated that the work would end in 1925, but the Lord did not state so. The difficulty was that the friends inflated their imaginations beyond reason; and that when their imaginations burst asunder, they were inclined to throw away everything." The Watchtower, page 232.

1931 "There was a measure of disappointment on the part of Jehovah's faithful ones on earth concerning the years 1917, 1918, and 1925, which disappointment lasted for a time...and they also learned to quit fixing dates." Vindication, page 338.

1941 "Receiving the gift, the marching children clasped it to them, not a toy or plaything for idle pleasure, but the Lord's provided instrument for most effective work in the remaining months before Armageddon." The Watchtower, 9/15/41, page 288.

1968 "True, there have been those in times past who predicted an ‘end to the world', even announcing a specific date. Yet nothing happened. The ‘end' did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing?.. Missing from such people were God's truths and evidence that he was using and guiding them." Awake, 10/8/68.

1968 "Why are you looking forward to 1975?" The Watchtower, 8/15/68, page 494.

NOT ONE OF THESE THINGS HAVE COME TO PAST.

Matt. 24:24

I WONT GET TO DEEP INTO YESHUA *NOT* BEING A CREATED BEING. I ALREADY DID THAT IN THE PREVIOUS POSTS. HOWEVER I WILL GIVE YOU THIS:

proto,tikto,ktizo Jeremiah 31:9 IS SHOWING *FIRSTBORN* AS A *TITLE*.

IN REGARDS TO "I AM".

EGO EIMI WAS USED IN **PRESENT** TENSE IN EXODUS AND PRESENT TENSE IN JOHN. THE J.W. BIBLE TRANSLATES IT TO *PERFECT* TENSE. THIS IS INACCURATE AND A MISTRANSLATION.
KEEP IN MIND THAT THE SEPTUAGINT TRANSLATES IT AS PRESENT TENSE.

3.NO VERSE HAS EVER EXISTED IN THE BIBLE THAT STATES THAT AN ANGEL HAS CREATED *ANYTHING*.

YET WITNESSESS BELIEVE THIS.

4.Amos 4:10-11 HAS *THE LORD* SPEAKING. HOW IS IT THAT *THE LORD* CAN SAY HE WILL DO SOMETHING THAT HE WILL DO SOMETHING THAT *GOD* DID????????

THATS LIKE SAYING "I WILL COOK YOU A CHICKEN LIKE HERESY COOKED YOU A CHICKEN".

5.Isaiah 44:6 WHY DO WE HAVE THE LORD ***AND*** HIS REDEEMER WHO IS CALLED THE LORD OF HOSTS?

6.WHY DOES YESHUA CLAIM TO BE FIRST AND LAST? Isaiah 44:6 HAS *GOD* SAYING IT YET YESHUA IS SAYING IT IN Revelation 22:12-13 AND Revelation 1:17-18.

7.IF THE RAUCH HAKODESH IS NOT *GOD* BUT AN ACTIVE FORCE TURN TO ACTS 5:1-4. PAY ATTENTION TO THIS.

IN VERSE 3 SOMEONE HAS LIED TO RAUCH. IN VERSE 4 IT SPECIFICALLY SAYS THAT THE PERSON DID NOT LIE TO MAN BUT TO *GOD*. IF RAUCH IS NOT GOD EXPLAIN THESE VERSES

. IF THE HOLY SPIRIT IS SIMPLY A FORCE HOW DOES IT SPEAK? Acts 28:25 HOW CAN HE TEACH?John 14:26

8.Romans 14:5 THAT WE SHOULD HAVE OUR *OWN* MIND.

HERE IS WHAT THE WATCHTOWER SAYS: Quote: "Only this organization functions for Jehovah's purpose and to his praise. To it alone God's Sacred Word, the Bible, is not a sealed book." The Watchtower; July 1, 1973, pp. 402.

HOW IS IT THAT THE WITNESSES ARE THE ONLY ORGANIZATION THAT IS DEDICATED TO GOD???????? ON WHAT SCRIPTURAL GROUNDS IS THIS TRUE?

9.HOW DOES GOD COMMUNICATE WITH US? HERE IS WHAT THE WITNESS ORGANIZATION SAYS. Quote: "It should be expected that the Lord would have a means of communication to his people on the earth, and he has clearly shown that the magazine called The Watchtower is used for that purpose." (1939 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses, p. 85.)

WHERE IN THE BIBLE DOES IT MENTION THAT THE WATCHTOWER WOULD BE GIVEN TO MAN? IN FACT SHOW ME ANY CANON THAT SPEAKS OF THE WATCH TOWER? SHOW ME ANYONE WHO QUOTES FROM IT AS AUTHORITIVE SCRIPTURE.......

THE BIBLE HAS AN ANSWER ON HOW GOD SPEAKS TO US.Heb. 1:1-2.

Quote: "We all need help to understand the Bible, and we cannot find the Scriptural guidance we need outside the ‘faithful and discreet slave' organization." (The Watchtower, Feb. 15, 1981.)

Luke 24:1-53 SHOWS YESHUA EXPLAINING THE SCRIPTURES. NOT SOME ORGANIZATION.

10. THE WITNESSESS DONT WANT YOU TO READ THE BIBLE EXCLUSIVELY.

Quote: "From time to time, there have arisen from among the ranks of Jehovah's people those, who, like the original Satan, have adopted an independent, faultfinding attitude...They say that it is sufficient to read the Bible exclusively, either alone or in small groups at home. But, strangely, through such ‘Bible reading,' they have reverted right back to the apostate doctrines that commentaries by Christendom's clergy were teaching 100 years ago..." The Watchtower, August 15, 1981.

LMAO! i wont even comment on that.

i might kill off on the micha-EL is YESHUA thing later. yeshua is NOT the arch ange micha-el. no scripture states this.

edj i would say that you are wrong when you say witnesses dont talk out their ass.

i dont see anything wrong in what he has done. he is not judging the person. he is simply using teh bible to show how the witness have an APOSTATE DOCTRINE OF DEVILS. I FEEL AMUSED AT DOING WHAT IM DOING. IM NOT A CHRISTIAN. I ENJOY SHOWING PEOPLE THAT WHAT THEY BELIEVE IN IS RETARDED AND IRRATIONAL. HOWEVER I TAKE ***GREATER*** JOY IN KNOWING THAT THE VEIL HAS BEEN LIFTED FROM EYES AND THAT THE PERSON WILL COME TO ACCEPT YESHUA BIN YOSEF FOR WHO HE IS. ENIAI TAMID EL ADONAI. IN FACT ASHREI ASHER LO YIKAHEL BI! SHEM ADONAI EKRA. I DONT KNOW ABOUT ANYONE ELSE BUT SHEM ADONAI EKRA.

1.YOU HAVE YET TO EXPLAIN WHAT CONVENTIONAL THINKING AND DOGMA IS.

2. WOULD LISTEN TO THE PERSON (AS I ALWAYS DO). AS SOON AS A RED FLAG GOES OFF ITS ON. IF IT DOESNT LINE UP WITH THE BIBLE IM COOL. I DONT CARE IF ITS A MORMON,HINDUL,PAGAN,WICCIN,SATANIST,CHRISTIAN,JEW,RASTA ETC ETC ETC ETC. IF IT DOESNT LINE UP WITH WHATS PRINTED AND THOSE RED FLAGS GO OFF IM COOL.

:h:

EDJ · Apr 3, 2003

CUZZ YOU TRIPPIN' NOW. AND I KNEW YOU WOULD JUMP TO SHIT LIKE YOU DID. BUT ALL THEM QUOTES FROM WATCHTOWERS FROM WAYBAK AIN'T HELPIN' YOU CONVINCE SHIT CAUSE I'M ALREADY KNOWIN' HOW JEHOVAH WITNESSES RUN THEY ORgANIZATION.

YOU BRINgIN' SHIT BAK WHEN MUTHA-FUKAS USE TO BELIEVE SOMETHIN' AND FOUND OUT IT WASN'T TRUE. I CAN gO ON AND ON HOW WITNESSES BAK THEN BELIEVED IN CHRISTMAS TOO BUT FOUND OUT THAT SHIT WAS FAKE. I CAN gO ON ABOUT HOW SOME WITNESSES BELIEVED 1976 WAS THE END OF THE WORLD. IT'S A FILTERIN' PROCESS. YOU ACT LIKE THEY JUST BELIEVE IN SHIT JUST TO BELIEVE. THEY ALWAYS FIND SCRIPTURAL BACCIN' FOR THEY BELIEFS AND EVEN gO AS FAR AS TO THE ORIgINAL LANgUAgES OF THE BIBLE TO SEE HOW A TEXT IS TRANSLATED AND HOW SOME BIBLE TRANSLATIONS OMITTED OR MISTRANSLATED SOMETHIN'.

INSTEAD OF YOU FINDIN' OUTSIDE RESOURCES TO TELL YOU HOW THEY PERCEIVE THE WITNESSES, WHY DON'T YOU gO TO ONE OF THERE SERVICES AND KINgDOM HALLS AND FIND OUT HOW THEY DO THINgS(I:E FUND THEMSELVES, AND RUN THEY PROgRAMS, AND WHAT THEY TEACH NOW AND HOW THEY TEACH IT, AND WHY THEY DO THE THANgS THEY DO, TEACH AND SAY THE THANgS THEY DO)? THEN YOU CAN COME BAK AND TELL ME FROM THE HEARNEST OF YOUR HEART WHAT THEY ARE AND WHAT THEY TEACH IS BULLSHIT. LIKE I STRESSED BEFORE, THE SHIT THEY TEACH MAKES SENSE TO "ME" AS OPPOSED AS TO WHAT OTHA RELIgIONS TRY TO TEACH. THAT DON'T MEAN IT'S gONNA MAKE SENSE TO YOU OR THAT YOU gONNA ACCEPT WHAT THEY TEACH OR PREACH. IT DOESN'T MEAN IT'S gONNA MAKE SENSE FOR THE FIRST ON-LOOKER OUTSIDE LOOKIN' IN EITHA.

BUT HERE I gO ANSWERIN' WHAT YOU PUT OUT THERE SO YOU CAN SEE WHERE I'M COMIN' FROM.

HERESY,
YOU STRESSED,"1.the bible CLEARLY states that the 144,000 are virgin males.12,000 FROM EACH tribe. rev 7:1-8 and rev 14:1-7

YES AND THE BOOK OF REVELATION IS SYMBOLIC ALSO, WHICH YOU FEEL IS ALL LITERAL.

THEN YOU STRESSED,"jehovahs witness claim that they are the 144,000.
NO THEY DON'T, THAT IS A BOLD FACE LIE. SHOW ME PROOF. COMMON SENSE WOULD TELL YOU IF YOU gO RESEARCH THAT THERE IS WAY MORE THAN 144,000 DEDICATED JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES AROUND THE gLOBE. SO HOW CAN THAT BE SO?

THEN YOU STRESSED,"where does that place jehovahs witness who are NOT hebrew?
DO THEY ACTUALLY HAVE TO BE HEBREW? MAYBE IN YOUR LITERAL TRANSLATION OF THE BOOK OF REVELATION.

THEN YOU STRESSED,"IF THE MALES ARE FIGURATIVE ON WHAT GROUNDS IS THE 144,000 LITERAL?
LITERAL IN WHAT SENSE? THE 144,000 WILL BE PRIESTS WITH CHRIST.

THEN YOU STRESSED,"2.here is what the bible says about FALSE PROPHETS AND PROPHECIES.Deut. 18:20-22"

HOW YOU KNOW IT'S NOT TALKIN' ABOUT YOU?

THEN YOU STRESSED,"HERE IS WHAT THE WITNESSES HAVE SAID IN THE PAST.".................." NOT ONE OF THESE THINGS HAVE COME TO PAST."

AS I STATED BEFORE, HUMAN ARE PRONED TO ERROR AND THE WITNESSES ARE NO EXCEPTION. ATLEAST THEY ARE HUMBLE ENOUgH TO RECTIFY N-E MISINFORMATION AND MISPERCEPTIONS IN THE PAST. JUST LIKE SOME OF THE APOSTLES IN THE PAST---LUKE 19:11; ACTS 1:6

THEN YOU STRESSED,"HOW IS IT THAT THE WITNESSES ARE THE ONLY ORGANIZATION THAT IS DEDICATED TO GOD???????? ON WHAT SCRIPTURAL GROUNDS IS THIS TRUE?

ON THE SCRIPTURAL gROUNDS OF EPH. 4:5 THERE IS ONLY ONE TRUTH, ONE FAITH. MATH. 7:13, 14, 21 AND THE WITNESSES BELIEVE THEY'RE IT CAUSE THEY BASE EVERYTHANg THEY BELIEVE IN THE BIBLE.

THEN YOU STRESSED,"WHERE IN THE BIBLE DOES IT MENTION THAT THE WATCHTOWER WOULD BE GIVEN TO MAN? IN FACT SHOW ME ANY CANON THAT SPEAKS OF THE WATCH TOWER? SHOW ME ANYONE WHO QUOTES FROM IT AS AUTHORITIVE SCRIPTURE.......

THE WATCHTOWER IS A BIBLE TOOL. IT'S A MEANS OF COMMUNICATION. OTHA THAN THAT, YOU CAN USE IT FOR TOILET PAPER OR TO START A FIRE. IT DON'T MATTER.

THEN YOU STRESSED,"Luke 24:1-53 SHOWS YESHUA EXPLAINING THE SCRIPTURES. NOT SOME ORGANIZATION.

JESUS TAUgHT HIS FOLLOWERS TO DISCERN FROM SCRIPTURE AND TEACH. SO AS HIS FOLLOWERS WITNESSES BELIEVE THEY EXPLAIN THE SCRIPTURES JUST LIKE JESUS DID.

THEN YOU STRESSED,"i dont see anything wrong in what he has done. he is not judging the person. he is simply using teh bible to show how the witness have an APOSTATE DOCTRINE OF DEVILS. I FEEL AMUSED AT DOING WHAT IM DOING. IM NOT A CHRISTIAN. I ENJOY SHOWING PEOPLE THAT WHAT THEY BELIEVE IN IS RETARDED AND IRRATIONAL. "

YOUR PERCEPTION IS A MISPERCEPTION. WHEN DID HE USE THE BIBLE AND FOR WHAT APOSTATE DOCTRINE OF DEVILS? AND WHEN YOU BLUNTLY LABEL SOMEBODY THIS AND THAT, IT MAKES YOU SEEM LIKE A BLASHPHEMOUS PERSON.

THEN YOU STRESSED,"1.YOU HAVE YET TO EXPLAIN WHAT CONVENTIONAL THINKING AND DOGMA IS."

CONVENTIONAL THINKIN' IS WHAT THE NORM IS. EXAMPLE: IF I LIVE IN A REDNEK SOCIETY, IT IS CONVENTIONAL THINKIN' THAT MEN ONLY WEAR PANTS AND IF YOU WEAR SHORTS YOU LOOKED DOWN AS BEIN' FRUITY.
CONVENTIONAL CHURCH DOgMA IS BELIEVIN' IN THE THE FALSE DOCTRINE OF THE TRINITY. CONVENTIONAL CHURCH DOgMA IS BELIEVIN' IN A LITERAL FIERY HELL AND PURgATORY. CONVENTIONAL CHURCH DOgMA IS BELIEVIN' THAT YOU gO TO HEAVEN CAUSE YOU WERE gOOD. BASICALLY WHAT IS OUT THERE THAT IS gENERALLY ACCEPTED BY THE MASSES BUT IF RESEARCHED, HISTORY AND SCRIPTURE(IF TRANSLATED CORRECTLY) WILL BRINg THE TRUTH AND EXPEL THE LIES AND MISTRANSLATIONS.

THE OTHA SHIT I'LL gET AT YOU LATER.

THEN YOU STRESSED,"IF IT DOESNT LINE UP WITH THE BIBLE IM COOL."
WHAT IF YOUR TRANSLATIONS DON'T ADD UP WITH THE BIBLE(AS A WHOLE) IN HARMONY?

miggidy · Apr 3, 2003

EDJ said:

Dog first of all,
I was just joking around.
Ok? If you know me, I tend to be a clown around folks.
I try to be funny but my flaw is that I'm insensitve to other people's feelings (even though I never claimed to be an angel).
But I'm working on it, I'm excersing my demons every day.

Having said that, I think Jehova Witnesses are not even with in the body of Christ. They're more of a cult.
No denomination is the shit by the way, they all have their flaws.
But let me digg some dirt on God's witnesses for ya....

1) Jehovah’s Witnesses state that there is only one true religious organisation administered by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.

We all know that this isn't true. And I won't even get into this....

2) Jehovah’s Witnesses claim that “since there are many ‘gods’ and many ‘lords,’ the true God has a personal name to distinguish Him from all other gods and that this name is Jehovah.

Ain't commenting on this, it's self explanitory.

3) Jehovah’s Witnesses deny Christ’s divinity.

To this I'll say;
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness …” (John 1: 1 – 5)

We all know that Jesus is the "Word"....
But I'll give the benefit of the doubt, other denominations question the Holy Trinity as well.

4) Jehovah’s Witnesses state that there is no personal Holy Spirit.

What ever! Read Acts and you'll find the truth right at the beginning...

5) Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that death ends personal existence.

Ok where do they get this shit from? They claim to read the same bible but fail to find the many times in the bible where it states that your fate will be either in Heaven or in Hell.

6) Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that Jesus Christ was raised as a spirit creature, that at the Resurrection His human body was not raised from the dead but was instead dissolved into gasses or otherwise annihilated.

Again, it sounds like they're making this shit up.
It seems that these people never read John or Acts.
Jesus clearly rose from the dead and went to Heaven in the flesh.

7) Jehovah’s Witnesses’ position on salvation is that there are two classes of Christians: The “anointed” class who will go to heaven as spirit sons of God, and the “great crowd” who will be resurrected on earth and be given an opportunity to live on earth for ever. The “anointed” are 144,000 in number who are the only ones eligible to be born again in heaven, as a precondition of becoming spirits, not as a precondition of salvation.

We all know that salvation is based on grace, the acceptance of the sacrifice God made for us. And through our works....
And if the J.W.'s had read Revelations all the way through, they would've realized that the 1,444,000 consist of virgin males.

8) Jehovah’s Witnesses’ position on the Second Coming of Christ is that He will never actually return to earth, that He is invisibly present and has been since 1914 when the Gentile times ended, and that Christ began ruling as king over the whole earth in 1914.

LOL! Again, where do they get this shit from?
The gospel of John clearly states that Jesus will return the very same way the he left. In the flesh!
On top of that, Revelation says that Jesus will return and the whole world will see him....

9) They have predicted the end of the Earth 5 times already.

And they've been incorrect 5 times!
As a matter of fact, they have stopped predicting shit cuz it's giving them a black eye....

Like I said, I'm only jumpin on them cuz they go around pushin their shit on people. And their beliefs are SEVERELY flawd.
And the only reason why I posted this long as explanation was because you came out in their deffense and questioned me in the process.

I would let go of this shit if Jehova Witnesses were speakin on their own "version" of the bible.
Meaning a different scripture then what we all read.
But they read the same scripture we do, and they still come up with all this off-the-wall claims.
I know they're getting this shit from some other source other than the bible.
And until then, I'm gonna continue to invite them in my house and try to dig into their brains.

Just a quick note....
I adhere to no denomination. And I will not stop at nothing to reveal the truth. Even if the truth hurts.
I don't know it all, but I know enough to point out certain denomination's flaws.

If it's over my head, then I won't speak on it.
But if it's in front of my eyes, then I will let it be known.

HERESY · Apr 3, 2003

1st John 5:7

ok.

no im bringing up the fact that they said the world was gonna end and it NEVER happened.the fact that the bible says that false prophets should be stoned.

thats a fundamental/doctrinal error. thats in a DIFFERENT ball park. i can go into how churches NOW celebrate a PAGAN easter. or how the MAJORITY of americans celebrate a PAGAN valentines day......

and it never happened.Deut. 18:20-22

MOST J.W.'S SAY THIS. ITS A COMMON ANSWER TO REBUTTAL.IN FACT THEY USE A VERSE IN THE BIBLE ABOUT THE CONTINOUS LIGHT TO BACK IT UP.

99% OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE A BELIEF OR PRACTICE A RELIGION DO.....

LOL! NO THEY DONT. NO EVIDENCE IN THE BIBLE SUPPORTS THE J.W. VIEW THAT THE 144,000 ARE J.W.'S. NO EVIDENCE IN THE BIBLE SUPPORTS THE CLAIM THAT YESHUA IS MICHA-EL. NO EVIDENCE IN THE BIBLE SUPPORTS THE VIEW THAT YESHUA IS A CREATED BEING. NO EVIDENCE IN THE BIBLE (OR HISTORY) WOULD ENDORSE THE VIEW THAT YESHUA WAS NAILED TO A STAKE.

NEXT POST IM GONNA SHOW HOW TAINTED THE J.W. BIBLE IS AND HOW THEY HAVE MISTRANSLATED IT. IN FACT FOR THE SIMPLE FACT THAT THEY HAVE *JEHOVAH* IS A MISTRANSLATION.

ALL I HAVE TO DO IS WAIT TIL THEY KNOCK ON MY DOOR,WALK IN MY HOOD OR WAIT TILL THEY STAND OUTSIDE OF RALEYS HOLDING THOSE SILLY LOOKING COMIC BOOKS. THE KINGDOM HALL IS NOT 4 FREE THINKERS.

OK.

THE DOCTRINE AND DOGMA OF THE JW'S MAKE NO SENSE WHEN COMPARED TO THE BIBLE. ALL IM DOING IS COMPARING THE DOCTRINE TO THE BIBLE.

1.I HAVE *NEVER* SAID THAT THE BOOK OF REVELATION IS ALL LITERAL. NOR HAVE I EVER SAID THAT THE ENTIRE BIBLE IS LITERAL. WHAT I ***DID*** SAY ABOUT THE BOOK OF REVELATIONS IS THIS. THE *MAJORITY* OF SYMBOLISM *IS* EXPLAINED BY THE *ANGEL/ELDER* WHO SPEAKS TO JOHN *OR*BY READING EZEKIAL,DANIEL AND JERIMIAH. NOT ONLY THAT BUT *HISTORY* WILL ACTUALLY EXPLAIN THE BOOK OF REVELATION.

2.IF ITS SYMBOLIC ON WHAT GROUNDS IS THE 144,000 LITERAL?

Watchtower 2/15/85, page 13). In fact, the 144,000 "anointed class" within the Jehovah's Witnesses are the only ones who are "born again."

"This "little flock" of 144,000 Kingdom heirs, then, are those ones from among mankind who are "born again." Watchtower 11/15/54, p. 681.

THE QUESTION YOU ASKED ME IS THE SAME QUESTION I AKSED A J.W. SHE DIDNT ANSWER SHE SLAMMED **MY** DOOR IN MY FACE :dead: .

LMAO. IF THIS IS THE CASE THE *NUMBER* 144,000 IS *NOT* A LITERAL NUMBER.

CAN YOU SHOW ME ONE VERSE IN THE BIBLE THAT STATES THE 144,000 WILL BE PRIEST WITH CHRIST? 1 Tim.2:5 PLEASE SHOW ME IN THE BIBLE WERE THE WORD *TRIBES* IS *NOT* USED IN A LITERAL SENSE? NOT ONLY THAT BUT IF ITS SYMBOLIC WHY LIST 12,000 FORM EACH TRIBE AND NAME THE TRIBE? WHAT IS THAT SYMBOLIC OF? WHY ARE THEY SEALED ***OUT OF*** ISRAEL?

TRACK RECORD.

1.GOD TOLD ME THAT AMERICA WOULD BE ATTACKED,FROM THAT ATTACK A WAR AND FROM THAT WAR, WW3. I TOLD EVERYONE I KNEW. EVEN TOLD PEOPLE ONLINE. 7 DAYS LATER 9-11 HAPPENED,APPRX 2 WEEKS LATER A WAR ON TERRORISM WAS WAGED. WE ARE IN THE *MIDDLE* OF THAT WAR.

2.I TOLD PEOPLE THAT OCTOBER (2002) WOULD BE THE MONTH FOR *INTENSE* BLOOD SHED. ONCE AGAIN I TOLD EVERYONE I KNOW AND I TOLD THEM THAT GOD TOLD ME. WHAT HAPPENED IN OCTOBER?

THE SNIPER SHOOTINGS
3 SCHOOL SHOOTINGS IN AMERICA
THE TERRORIST BLAST IN BALI
THE RUSSIAN MASSACRE
THE BLASTS IN ISRAEL
THE EXTERMINATION OF CHRISTIANS IN CHINA

THE VERSE THAT I LISTED DOES NOT APPLY TO ME AND IT *NEVER* WILL.:classic: IT APPLIES TO J.W.'S AND THE UNFULLFILLED PROPHECIES THEY HAVE MADE.

I DONT SEE THE CONNECTION BETWEEN THE VERSES AND WHAT YOU SAID. I DO KNOW THAT IF WE WERE ABIDING UNDER THE OLD TESTAMENT THAT THE LEADERS OF THE J.W. WOULD BE STONED TO DEATH (IN ACCORDANCE TO OT LAW).

THEY DONT BASE IT ON THE BIBLE. THEY CUT AND PASTE. ONE TRUTH. THAT TRUTH IS YESHUA. ONE FAITH. THAT BEING FAITH IN YESHUA. NOT FAITH IN THE WATCH TOWER.
Quote: "Only this organization functions for Jehovah's purpose and to his praise. To it alone God's Sacred Word, the Bible, is not a sealed book." The Watchtower; July 1, 1973, pp. 402. GOD HAS PEOPLE IN ALL WALKS OF LIFE. IN MANY SHAPES AND FORMS. HE IS NOT LIMITED TO J.W.

I DO USE IT FOR TOILET PAPER AND TO START FIRES.

ITS ALL IN BLACK AND WHITE. THE J.W. HAVE PREDICTED THE END APPRX 5 TIMES. THEY HAVE SAID THAT THEY ARE THE 144,000. THIS IS NOT BIBLICAL.

YESHUA USED THE OLD TESTAMENT BECAUSE THATS ALL HE HAD. THATS WHAT HE QUOTED FROM. AN EXAMPLE OF HIM AND A VERY ***IMPORTANT*** ONE IS THIS: LUKE 4:17-22. ANOTHER EXAMPLE IS WHAT HE SAID WHEN HE WAS ON THE CROSS.

1.THE JW DOCTRINE IS APOSTATE AND THE DOCTRINE OF BAAL.

2.PEOPLE LABEL THEMSELVES. I SIMPLY CALL IT HOW I SEE IT.

3.NO ONE IS BLASPHEMOUS. WHATS BLASPHEMOUS IS WHEN ONE DEMOTES HA-SHEM.

I HAVE ALREADY SHOWN YOU VERSES OF YESHUA BEING CALLED GOD,HA SHEM BEING CALLED GOD AND THE RAUCH BEING CALLED GOD. I HAVE SHOWN VERSES OF GOD CALLING SOMEONE ELSE *GOD*.
1st John 5:7. I SUGGEST YOU STUDY CHURCH DOGMA (ESPECIALLY EARLY CHURCH DOGMA) BEFORE YOU SAY WHATS FALSE OR WHAT IS TRUE. TRITHEISM. LEARN ABOUT IT.

ITS WHAT YESHUA TAUGHT. HE PREACHED IT MORE TIMES THAN HEAVEN. IF HELL IS SYMBOLIC SO IS HEAVEN.

IF HELL IS SYMBOLIC ANSWER THE FOLLOWING:

WERE ARE THE ANGELS WHO ARE KEPT IN CHAINS?

WHY DID THE DEMONS SPEAK OF BEING TORMENTED? TORMENTED WHERE?

WHY WOULD YESHUA EXPLAIN SOMETHING SYMBOLIC WITH SOMETHING SYMBOLIC?

YOU HAVE YET TO ANSWER THESE AND YOU NEVER WILL.

LMAO! I BELIEVE IN RECIEVING ETERNAL LIFE DUE TO THE GRACE AND SACRIFICE OF YESHUA. NOT BECAUSE OF MY GOOD DEEDS.

1.WHAT RESEARCH HAVE ***YOU*** DONE? I CAN SIT HERE AN EXPLAIN THE MISTRANSLATIONS AND MADNESS OF THE JW ALL DAY LONG. WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO SHOW YOURSELF STUDIED AND APPROVED?

????? I USE A STRONG CONCORDENCE,GREEK LEXICON,TEXTUS RECEPTUS (MAJOR) KJV,VULGATE AND SEPTUIGANT. YOU USE THE WATCH TOWER.

HAVE A NICE ONE.

:h:

ReservoirDog · Apr 3, 2003

you people take this religion shit too seriously. Religion to me is a prehistoric science that doesn't hold up with todays science's and objective knowledge...

HERESY · Apr 3, 2003

thats great. too each his own.

:H:

QUESTIONS FOR CHRISTIANS OR THOSE WHO ADHERE TO THE BIBLE **ONLY**

Sicc OG

THE HIDDEN HAND...

Sicc OG

Sicc OG

Sicc OG

Fresh

Sicc OG

THE HIDDEN HAND...

Sicc OG

Sicc OG

THE HIDDEN HAND...

Sicc OG

Sicc OG

Sicc OG

THE HIDDEN HAND...

Sicc OG

Sicc OG

THE HIDDEN HAND...

Sicc OG

THE HIDDEN HAND...

QUESTIONS FOR CHRISTIANS OR THOSE WHO ADHERE TO THE BIBLE ONLY