population reduction after ecnomic collapse

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Feb 15, 2006
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#41
Man if you were half as good at answering questions as you are at dodging them I would personally nominate you for the next episode of Are You Smarter than a 5th Grader.
im not trying to dodge any questions the thing is i dont belive the world to be overpopulated.Zero growth and overpopulation is all part of an ideology called Malthusianism and this ideology doesnt think there are any solutions to poverty and that you can't improve peoples lives thru science and technology.malthusianism has been the doctrin of the us goverment since the Carter administration and think it's pretty easy to figure out why it goes so well together with an ecnonomy that only is intrested in investing in worthless paper and not real physical things that science and technology would provide.The so called facts that thag is presenting are figures produced to back up this ideology and not sceintifical facts like they would have you belive there are other voices speaking about this onfortunantly they are ether silenced or cut of from funding.Im sorry i cant provide you with an overall plan on how to save the world it just so happens that i oppose the ideoloegies and the mind set off the elites because they dont serve you and me they serve them self.
 

ThaG

Sicc OG
Jun 30, 2005
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#42
im not trying to dodge any questions the thing is i dont belive the world to be overpopulated.Zero growth and overpopulation is all part of an ideology called Malthusianism and this ideology doesnt think there are any solutions to poverty and that you can't improve peoples lives thru science and technology.malthusianism has been the doctrin of the us goverment since the Carter administration and think it's pretty easy to figure out why it goes so well together with an ecnonomy that only is intrested in investing in worthless paper and not real physical things that science and technology would provide.The so called facts that thag is presenting are figures produced to back up this ideology and not sceintifical facts like they would have you belive there are other voices speaking about this onfortunantly they are ether silenced or cut of from funding.Im sorry i cant provide you with an overall plan on how to save the world it just so happens that i oppose the ideoloegies and the mind set off the elites because they dont serve you and me they serve them self.
Right now the world's population is growing at >1% a year.

Do you know what would happen if we continue to grow indefinitely? There will be 150 trillion of us in a 1000 years

Would the world be overpopulated then or not, if, according to you, growth can not be a problem
 
Feb 15, 2006
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#43
Right now the world's population is growing at >1% a year.

Do you know what would happen if we continue to grow indefinitely? There will be 150 trillion of us in a 1000 years

Would the world be overpopulated then or not, if, according to you, growth can not be a problem
yes this is what you belive if you belive in the malhusian theory on the other hand people who belive in this therory also thinks that you shouldnt do shit about poverty which leads to people having more children i think thats kind of contardicting .
 
Feb 15, 2006
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#45
i cant answer you on what might happen in a 1000 years but what i do is that as long as malthusanism is ruling doctrin it wont let any good progressive ideas come through that can actually do some good on this planet and it's people.
 
May 20, 2006
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#47
@james blunt
Are you the new "youtube program director" for the Sicc or what????

Youtube is good for entertainment, however you seem to enjoy and want to share the propaganda. Next time put up some links to some bad bitches, some brawls, or some ol' skool hip-hop videos. thank you......
 

Mac Jesus

Girls send me your nudes
May 31, 2003
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#55
Not a big fan of Malthusian Logic.

'Are people really hungry because there is not enough food, or is it because they simply lack the money to pay for it? Is it the poor who are destroying the environment, or is it the consumption patterns of the wealthy? Do people in poor countries lack resources because there are too many of them, or because the wealth of these countries is so unevenly distributed? Are women poorly educated because they have too many children, or because of the social and economic policies that international financial agencies impose on poor countries?'
 

ThaG

Sicc OG
Jun 30, 2005
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#57
Not a big fan of Malthusian Logic.

'Are people really hungry because there is not enough food, or is it because they simply lack the money to pay for it? Is it the poor who are destroying the environment, or is it the consumption patterns of the wealthy? Do people in poor countries lack resources because there are too many of them, or because the wealth of these countries is so unevenly distributed? Are women poorly educated because they have too many children, or because of the social and economic policies that international financial agencies impose on poor countries?'
That's not Malthusian logic. Malthus' goal was to show that population can never exceed the "carrying capacity" (there was no such term back in the days, of course) of its environment because the four horsemen of the apocalypse will always keep it in check. However, he was focusing on food only, and he didn't realize that, first, food isn't the only factor that is a limit to growth, and second, a population can go into "overshoot" mode if it has enough resources stockpiled; it will crash, of course, when those stockpiled resources run out (which is what will happen to us very soon)

Anyway, whether distribution of resources is a problem or not (and it is a big problem in our world) is totally irrelevant to the simple fact that we can't grow forever on a finite planet. And this is only much more true given that we're spending so much more resources on canned entertainment, cosmetics, driving 50 miles a day to park our ass in front of the computer and shuffle imaginary money around the internet, and other useful things of that sort, than we spend on space exploration and developing the technologies that can get us out of this planet.

The fact is that by any reasonable definition of overshoot (which is usually defined as something like "the moment when the size of population times the per capita resource consumption level starts compromising the long-term carrying capacity of the environment") we are in overshoot right now, and we've been in overshoot mode for at least the last 20 to 30 years. And it does not really matter whether Joe from Dallas drives a Truckzilla to work, keeps his house air-conditioned to some absurdly low temperature all the time in the summer and eats 7000 calories a day, while children in Kenya starve.

The point is that you can't "contract and converge" to spread the resource consumption evenly and then keep growing. You have to "contract and converge" to a much lower worldwide average resource consumption level and STOP growing.

Neither of these will happen voluntarily and fast enough to avoid the catastrophe. But there are people like you that think it just can't happen. Why? Because we've never seen it happen, yet it is what has happened to every civilization that ever existed safe for a luck few that happened to be situated around rivers that continually replenished soil fertility through the sediments they bring. Everybody else has collapsed in a very ugly way. Archaeologists often find human bones with teeth marks on them, which means that there is a non-trivial, and probably quite high chance that me and you will die either from starvation or will be eaten by other people, and quite possibly both...
 
Feb 15, 2006
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#59
and probably quite high chance that me and you will die either from starvation or will be eaten by other people, and quite possibly both
oh my god i didnt know it was this urgent! i better run over to my neighbor and eat him before he eats me:eyecross: