On Mosques and Madison

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Jan 31, 2008
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Neil McCarthyPolitical Activist and Senior Partner at Allegaert Berger & Vogel LLP
Posted: August 18, 2010 07:27 PM

St. Peter's is the oldest Catholic Church in New York City. It is located on Barclays Street in lower Manhattan, a block from Ground Zero.

The church was founded in 1840 and is iconic for New York Catholics as the place where Mother (now St.) Elizabeth Seton converted to Catholicism. The church property includes a narrow strip on its southern border, fronting the appropriately named Church Street. And here stands another iconic memorial, the steel cross which was among the remnants of the 9/11 attacks on the World Trade Center. The cross was "consecrated" shortly after it was discovered and now awaits its final resting place at Ground Zero alongside the Church located a block away.

Though there were Muslim victims among the thousands of innocents slaughtered on 9/11, none of their families or friends complained when the cross went up at St.Peter's. It was not perceived as insensitive to them or their fellow believers, nor was it said to inappropriately inject an element of division into the planned memorial.

No politicians complained either.

Now, some New Yorkers want to build an Islamic Cultural Center on Park Place in lower Manhattan. The owners bought the land and have obtained zoning approval for the Center. The site is between Broadway and Church Street, about equidistant from City Hall and Ground Zero. It is not, however, being labeled the "City Hall Mosque." Though even closer to the lower boundary of Tribeca, it is also not being called the "Tribeca Mosque." Rather, in a fit of geographic invention, it is now lampooned as the "Ground Zero Mosque."

Lots of politicians are complaining. Lest any side seize the moral high ground, the complaining is unfortunately bipartisan. For the GOP, the yellers are led by Newt Gingrich, Sarah Palin, and a host of Congressman and candidates. For the Democrats, the Senate Majority Leader has weighed in against the so-called mosque, saying it should be built elsewhere, as has New York's Democratic Governor. The President appeared to initially favor the Center but now has equivocated, claiming that his defense of the "right" to build it did not necessarily constitute an endorsement of the "wisdom" in building it.

Many of the families of the victims of 9/11 are also apoplectic with anger, indeed rage.

Where to begin?

Let's start with the families. In my book, they get a pass. They are victims themselves. And entitled to be as angry as they want at whoever and whatever appears to them to be insensitive. They are not ipso facto racists or intolerant, anymore than the legion of South Boston Irish protesting busing in the '70s were racists. The Irish cared about their kids and did not want them going to lousy schools. The 9/11 families care about their memories, which is all the terrorists left them with after slaughtering their loved ones.

So the families get a pass.

But no one else does.

Not Newt . . . or Sarah . . . or Sen. Harry Reid . . . or New York Governor David Paterson. Not even Barack.

They all should know better.

To begin, this is America, not Saudi Arabia. When Newt Gingrich bellowed that a mosque should be built at Ground Zero when a church is built in Saudi Arabia, my jaw dropped. The whole idea behind our "shining City on the Hill," to quote Ronald Reagan, is that we are different. The values of religious tolerance and pluralism that inform our First Amendment in particular and our entire culture in general obviously fall on deaf ears in Riyadh.

And I do not want to be "like them."

So, Newt, no thanks. I'd rather see a thousand mosques in lower Manhattan if the price I have to pay to keep one out is waiting for a church to be built in Saudi Arabia. And curiously, until Newt made his comment, I thought he agreed. He is, after all, of the party that decidedly rejects the notion that any of our constitutional liberties should be informed by foreign practices or customs. The right wing loudly decries any attempts to pour content into the notion of American due process by embracing the European Convention on Human Rights or the progressive social mores of our western brethren. But they now appear to have lost their analytic nerve. Or at least Newt has.

Because he wants to read our First Amendment through the prism of Saudi intolerance.

Newt's constitutional ignorance, however, may be trumped by the Democrats' transparent political cowardice. So many are running for cover, it is now taking on the look of a stampede. Granted, the right wing has done what it has always been very good at doing -- finding and exploiting a wedge issue shortly before the season of electioneering kicks off in earnest. The "Ground Zero Mosque," which for the (irrelevant) record is not at Ground Zero and is not just or even primarily a mosque, is simply this year's version of the Willie Horton ad -- designed to divide and conquer as it appeals to both our basest fears and our sometimes visceral intolerance for "the other."

The Democratic defense, echoing the President's apparent volte face, is that a Constitutional right to undertake any course of action is distinct from the utility or propriety of doing so. This distinction between rights and wisdom, however, is too cute by half. Religious freedom in America is fundamental. And it is paramount. Well intentioned sensitivity to the feelings of those offended by another's practice, or place of practice, is never a sufficient basis for limiting that freedom.

Among America's elites, the only profile in courage last week was Mayor Michael Bloomberg. He did not insist that we compromise basic rights. Or that we ignore all we have hitherto held sacred. He eschewed any phony distinction between rights and wisdom because he knew that the rights bequeathed by James Madison, among them religious freedom, are our wisest inheritance.

He came out four square for the Islamic Cultural Center.

"This is America," said Mayor Bloomberg.

Case closed.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/neil-mccarthy/on-mosques-and-madison_b_687038.html
 
Apr 30, 2008
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hatemachine.us
#2
Giving tribute to victims of an Islamic terrorist attack by building a Mosque might have something to do with it. The whole thing with Muslims liking to build Mosques after victories thing might have something to do with it too.
 
May 14, 2002
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Even Dutch politicians have something to say about this.... :hurt::dead::hurt:

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/295988



Dutch anti-Islam politician Wilders speaks at 9/11 NYC rally

New York - Dutch politician of 'Fitna' fame Geert Wilders is to speak at a rally in New York on September 11 to protest plans to build a mosque close to Ground Zero. Politicians in the Netherlands fear the worst for the country's image abroad.

During the rally being organised by a group called Stop Islamization Of America (SIAO) which wants to prevent the building of a mosque so close to Ground Zero, Wilders will be one of the speakers -- which also include Newt Gingrich and other prominent politicians, plus 9/11 family members.

There was a time when Geert Wilders was mainly known as the troublesome film-maker of Fitna, as the radical anti-Islamic right-winger who wants the Koran to be banned and a 1,000 Euro fine for each woman wearing the burqa or another form of veil in public, as the man who believes that Islamic culture is secretly conquering Europe by way of immigration; and by producing way more offspring than the local, Caucasian Europeans.

In February 2009, he was banned from visiting the United Kingdom on the grounds that he posed a potential threat to community harmony, and in October of the same year, he was booed offstage in Philadelphia, yet a lot had changed since then. Not only has the American right become more outspoken in their fear of Islam, but Wilders has also way more clout now at home, where his Party for Freedom (PVV) gained more seats than any other in the June 2010 general elections, and is now the third largest in the Netherlands.

Although the Dutch election were held on June 6, there is still no government. None of the other parties want to be seen working with Wilders' PVV, but no one seems to be able to form a coalition without him. As one can read on the website of Radio Netherlands Worldwide, Dutch politicians are trying to have him give a non-controversial speech while in New York, but Wilders is defiant.

One of his critics is outgoing Foreign Minister Maxime Verhagen of the Christian Democrats, but Wilders had the following retort:

"We have agreed that, on the one hand, I will keep speaking my mind. About Islam, about New York and also about that terrible mosque which is being built there. And Mr Verhagen, in turn, can say what he wants to say about that, also when he disagrees. It’s a practical agreement 'to agree to disagree', and that is fine”.

In the same article, another quote by Wilders shows exactly where he stands:

"We cannot escape from totalitarian ideologies that want to destroy us. Well, the totalitarian ideology that wants to destroy our freedom today unfortunately is the Islam, and we should stand up and fight it."

An interesting detail about the other Dutch parties interest in having him keep quiet has been published on Wilders' own website, where he published the Dutch government's financial support for the Ground Zero project, a $1 million grant made to the American Society for Muslim Advancement (ASMA) headed by Imam Rauf and Ms. Khan.
All of this is even more interesting to see unfold because of the historical dimension. After all, New York City once was called New Amsterdam, established by the Dutch West India Company in 1624.

_____________________________
For the ones who haven't seen fitna:

 
Sep 16, 2008
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#7
things like this are completely matterless topics republicans and democrats alike love to get people wild up over.

this shouldn't even be a debate in the first place.
building a mosque where an islamic attack occured should have been denied without hesitation
 
Sep 16, 2008
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#8
Building that shit is just going to cause more problems and more arguments between religions/pissed off people
 
Apr 21, 2010
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#9
building a mosque where an islamic attack occured should have been denied without hesitation


The PUBLIC CULTURAL CENTER THAT WILL HAVE 2 Stories (out of 13 stories) for prayer rooms, will be on a normal street called CHURCH STREET, NOT ON THE GROUNDS OR EVEN ACROSS THE STREET OR THE STREET OVER FROM THE WORLD TRADE CENTER MEMORIAL SITE.

Are you too retarded to understand even that simple fact?
 
Apr 30, 2008
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hatemachine.us
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They got the right to. I just don't think they should. The government should have made that area a national landmark right after it happened. Good luck getting crews to build it if they decide to go on with the plans.
 
Sep 16, 2008
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The PUBLIC CULTURAL CENTER THAT WILL HAVE 2 Stories (out of 13 stories) for prayer rooms, will be on a normal street called CHURCH STREET, NOT ON THE GROUNDS OR EVEN ACROSS THE STREET OR THE STREET OVER FROM THE WORLD TRADE CENTER MEMORIAL SITE.

Are you too retarded to understand even that simple fact?
wow, 2 buildings, a very large distance :rolleyes:
 
Sep 16, 2008
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#12
They got the right to. I just don't think they should.
It's called moral. If people have to watch what they say and cant draw pictures of Muhammad without a national threat then I think the muslims should respectfully not build there. As a mutual agreement
 
Apr 21, 2010
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How about you do us all a favor as well, and take your ice pick and stab yourself in the eye Timm. Make sure it punctures all the way through your brain too.
 
Jan 5, 2006
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Let em build it.. isnt there already a couple anyways within a 12 block radius??

they said this is more of center with pools, gym etc and also a tribute to all those who died to 9/11??
 
Nov 24, 2003
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Build it.

The American people seem to be too dumb to separate Islamic extremists from the rest of the believers - almost believing that the extremists are the inherent norm.

It's ironic because they seem to do the exact opposite to Christian extremists - almost refusing to classify them as Christians.
 

NAMO

Sicc OG
Apr 11, 2009
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I think what the victims families feel should be respected. If they are against it and find it offensive then don't build it. The west has to bow down to islam and not draw cartoons/comics about muhammed as it is insensitive to muslims, so it should go both ways.

Also the guy building it wants to bring sharia law to your country.