Next Box 720 To Block Use of Used Games

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NAMO

Sicc OG
Apr 11, 2009
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#41
Games will drop by 10-15 dollars and then the companies will find a way to hike the price back up to $65 or even more. HDD's for consoles aren't in their infancy. You can install your own HD in a PS3 and the 360 allows for games to be installed on thumbdrives. So this isn't a matter of hardware.

PC gamers are using 1-2+ terabyte HDD's and also high performance SSD, compared to PC, consoles are still in the womb.

Currently the hardware on consoles is over 7 years old. This is causing a bottleneck in advancement, but DEVS are squeezing everything they can out of them causing people to believe everything is fine and games are getting better.

If we had a new GEN console even 3 years ago, the improvements would be insane, no video lag, faster processing, better graphics and better stability.
 

BUTCHER 206

FREE BUTCHER206
Aug 22, 2003
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Seattle, WA
#42
digital downloads seem like a good idea, but i think the consoles would fuck it up terribly. for example my psp Go is a giant piece of shit cause you have to download every game new, theres no physical media, youd think classic games would be cheap, like 5 or 10 bucks each. NOPE. fuckin $40 - $50 RPGs that have been out for over a decade. $40 new releases like god of war on the psp, a game that takes about 6 hours to beat. even cheap ass little shit like tetris is like $5.99, shti is ridiculous. and their sales fuckin suck. its mostly useless shit that goes on sale like outfits for your sackboy in little big planet. woopty fuckin do. sony is pretty greedy with their prices on digital media, i can only imagine that microsoft would be greedy as well.

i can see nintendo moving to digital media and having success though; they treat their loyal fan base with respect. i could also see the new sony console, PS4 or whatever, coming out in a couple years and playstation moving more heavily towards digital media, as the PSP go seems like an experiment of sorts, and youre already offering playstation network connectivity for free. but i dont really see any scenario where it would catch on strongly
 
May 13, 2002
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www.socialistworld.net
#43
it's amazing to me there are actually people who oppose basic consumer rights on this forum.

Making up bullshit excuses. "True gamers don't return games they know what to buy!" WTF? Ok thanks super-nerd. For the rest of us that aren't psychic I would at least like to know I have the option of returning a game.

And sometimes I like to pick up a couple games at a time and sometimes I don't want to spend $130-$150 for two fucking games, so yeah, buying used is a pretty nice option for those of us who don't have unlimited funds to spend on gaming.
 

NAMO

Sicc OG
Apr 11, 2009
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#44
It's not about having unlimited funds, it's making better decisions when buying games. Less games we buy, hopefully then the industry stops making shit games and provides actual quality assuarance.

If used games were bought and sold primarily from person to person, I'd be all for it. But when retailers make a large profit of us they don't deserve, I'm against it.
 

HERESY

THE HIDDEN HAND...
Apr 25, 2002
18,326
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www.godscalamity.com
www.godscalamity.com
#45
PC gamers are using 1-2+ terabyte HDD's and also high performance SSD, compared to PC, consoles are still in the womb.
The ability for a device to use a certain type of medium is a software issue. Windows only seeing a certain amount of gig or ram? Software/coding. PS3 and 360 not being able to read external drives that are NTFS format? Software/coding.

Currently the hardware on consoles is over 7 years old. This is causing a bottleneck in advancement, but DEVS are squeezing everything they can out of them causing people to believe everything is fine and games are getting better.
The bottleneck in advancement comes from restrictions that the companies put on their hardware (the ps3 memory for example) and the mentality that the latest and greatest in graphics chips is where it's at.

If we had a new GEN console even 3 years ago, the improvements would be insane, no video lag, faster processing, better graphics and better stability.
Better, but for how long and at what price? The faster you churn out a product the more you'll need to recoup so putting out a console three years ago places the console maker at a disadvantage. And where does it place developers like crytek and epic who make their own engines?

Where does it leave the consumer? How much do you think a new console would have costed if it hit the market three years ago? Keep in mind that you're just now seeing price drops in ps3's and 360's within the last year or so.
 
Oct 9, 2008
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#46
Video game devs are fuckin stupid! I don't hink microsoft understands that any type of media this day in age will be stolen but you got to look at the promotional side.

I make music and i have songs on the internet. They do get jacked from time to time without me seeing a dime! This however does not hurt my feelings because i know that the more people listening to my songs the more "Potential" sales i see by word of mouth.

Same principal applys to video games. More people playing your product=More sales, not just of the game but DLC! I really hope this is just a rumor because alot of people depend on the money they get back on used games to buy new ones.. So, in turn the video game industry would just be shooting itself in the foot!
 
Mar 1, 2006
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#47
Dont get it twisted Im not for the retailers, as a consumer of course im against. Thats why im saying research your shit, if you play online buying used games are worthless unless u buy your online pass. I buy some games early to get an advantage when I compete, If a game has no inovation and is the same shit like mw3 I dont even bother with it. Single player gamers shouldnt have a prob yet unless playing online.
 

NAMO

Sicc OG
Apr 11, 2009
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#49
The ability for a device to use a certain type of medium is a software issue. Windows only seeing a certain amount of gig or ram? Software/coding. PS3 and 360 not being able to read external drives that are NTFS format? Software/coding.
Thats like blaming the operating system. I can't get a program to see my 8 gigs of ram as 50 gigs of ram, I don't understand your argument here? Aside from slightly bigger HDD's the consoles have not changed in 7 years.

The bottleneck in advancement comes from restrictions that the companies put on their hardware (the ps3 memory for example) and the mentality that the latest and greatest in graphics chips is where it's at.
Huh?

PC games are 10x faster/smoother/better looking than console games because of hardware that seperates them.

Better, but for how long and at what price? The faster you churn out a product the more you'll need to recoup so putting out a console three years ago places the console maker at a disadvantage. And where does it place developers like crytek and epic who make their own engines?

Where does it leave the consumer? How much do you think a new console would have costed if it hit the market three years ago? Keep in mind that you're just now seeing price drops in ps3's and 360's within the last year or so.
Surely you are not implying we should never get next gen consoles?
 
Apr 20, 2005
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#50
fuck a new console already. plus u know the 720 and ps4 will cost like $700 to $800 bucks in the first month.

game creators need to start comming out with games that are longer and harder to beat. on average im sure some of u guys beat games in less than 2-3 days. uncharted 3 for example. too easy on hard mode. i wouldve head butted my tv if i spent $60 on that weak ass shit.
 

HERESY

THE HIDDEN HAND...
Apr 25, 2002
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www.godscalamity.com
#51
Thats like blaming the operating system.
And that is where the blame lies. Again, consoles not being able to use this drive or that drive is a software/coding issue first and a hardware/design flaw second.

I can't get a program to see my 8 gigs of ram as 50 gigs of ram, I don't understand your argument here? Aside from slightly bigger HDD's the consoles have not changed in 7 years.
Go back and look at what you said which was "PC gamers are using 1-2+ terabyte HDD's and also high performance SSD, compared to PC, consoles are still in the womb." My point is that if they are still in the womb it's because of software/coding and not because of hardware. You can have all the TB's you want, at however many rpms with whatever type of cache and seek, but if the software isn't designed to function with the hardware, or push it to the max, it's useless. Do you understand what I'm saying now?

Huh?

PC games are 10x faster/smoother/better looking than console games because of hardware that seperates them.
You aren't reading bro as I already gave you a great example of what I'm talking about. Before you can get to the hardware side everything has to be solid ont he software side. You can have the fastest vidcard but it means nothing if the software guys aren't able to get the shit locked down. PC games aren't 10x anything because the same problems that plague the consoles, screen tearing, texture pop ins, framerate dips, etc happen to pc gamers with nice and shitty rigs. Go to the Skyrim or Crysis forums if you don't believe me. And speaking of Crysis, why is it that not too many games on the pc have caught up to this game in terms of graphics (without mods)? And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying pc games look shitty or that console games look better than their pc counterparts.

The bottleneck comes from what I said in the previous page and what I said in the first page.

The lack of innovation is the ultimate culprit (greedy fucks are a close second.)

Surely you are not implying we should never get next gen consoles?
No, that is not what I'm implying. What I'm stating is that consoles should be released when there is a consumer need and the technology on the software and hardware side absolutely need to be upgraded. The fact is, a lot of the software stuff just isn't there yet and companies that have their own tech have to play catch up and develop new tech for their own IP's and to license to other companies (Epic and Unreal Engine for example.) Factor in the time it takes to develop a game (2 or 3 years) and you're looking at the business passing you by because you're trying to keep up with the latest and greatest tech/hardware.

A new console every three years is a very flawed business design. There is no way a company can recoup the production costs in that short of a time period. No way. Impossible. Why? Because the cost to make the consoles actually are more than they sell them for and the companies make the bulk of their money on the software side (licensing tech, games and micro transactions.)

Here is an excellent link for you and everyone else to read, fam.

http://www.industrygamers.com/news/...ithout-new-consoles-says-former-activision-vp

Make sure you read the comments as well.
 

HERESY

THE HIDDEN HAND...
Apr 25, 2002
18,326
11,459
113
www.godscalamity.com
www.godscalamity.com
#52
fuck a new console already. plus u know the 720 and ps4 will cost like $700 to $800 bucks in the first month.

game creators need to start comming out with games that are longer and harder to beat. on average im sure some of u guys beat games in less than 2-3 days. uncharted 3 for example. too easy on hard mode. i wouldve head butted my tv if i spent $60 on that weak ass shit.
I still haven't beat Uncharted 3, but I felt the same way about Gears 3.
 

Dead Blue

Smokin Bud
Nov 14, 2008
4,697
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CALIFORNIA
#53
digital downloads seem like a good idea, but i think the consoles would fuck it up terribly. for example my psp Go is a giant piece of shit cause you have to download every game new, theres no physical media]
Yea.

1st, research shows that 40% of US gamers do not connect online. Simply, they don't want to, they don't have fast enough internet or they have bandwith caps. The number is far greater when you take into account other countries (such as japan where something like 90% of the population doesn't game online) 2nd, look at that new KOTOR MMO that was a 200 million dollar failure. Mostly because of the 20GB install size. To go all digital download with games that will be in the 100GB file size, would just be suicide.

Shogun, you're wrong if you think that new consoles (which most of the industry and consumers do not want) would solve all the problems. Also, PC gaming has it's limitations too, especially if delivered via steam. You're wrong than you think when it comes to current console hardware being at it's limit.
 

NAMO

Sicc OG
Apr 11, 2009
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#56
And that is where the blame lies. Again, consoles not being able to use this drive or that drive is a software/coding issue first and a hardware/design flaw second.
The software is still part of the Console.

Neither software or hardware has changed in 7 years and is holding back the potential of games. So now we should agree that both are holding back the console. My point was, there is only so much you can get out of the current hardware, no amount of software upgrading can change that because it is limited.

Go back and look at what you said which was "PC gamers are using 1-2+ terabyte HDD's and also high performance SSD, compared to PC, consoles are still in the womb." My point is that if they are still in the womb it's because of software/coding and not because of hardware. You can have all the TB's you want, at however many rpms with whatever type of cache and seek, but if the software isn't designed to function with the hardware, or push it to the max, it's useless. Do you understand what I'm saying now?
Yeah I do now, but we are arguing the same thing here but one is saying software the other is saying hardware, when it's both.

You aren't reading bro as I already gave you a great example of what I'm talking about. Before you can get to the hardware side everything has to be solid ont he software side. You can have the fastest vidcard but it means nothing if the software guys aren't able to get the shit locked down.
Yeah but there is only so much you can get out of the hardware, this is the same argument as the first two I quoted in this post so I'll leave it .

PC games aren't 10x anything because the same problems that plague the consoles, screen tearing, texture pop ins, framerate dips, etc happen to pc gamers with nice and shitty rigs. Go to the Skyrim or Crysis forums if you don't believe me. And speaking of Crysis, why is it that not too many games on the pc have caught up to this game in terms of graphics (without mods)? And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying pc games look shitty or that console games look better than their pc counterparts.
Those PC gamers that have problems (yes we get alot more than console because we all have diff set ups) usually need to tweek their PC and have a good understanding of everything PC related. Some of the times it's the software in the game itself that causes problems, other times it's how the individual PC is set up. There is always a work around and the PC gives us more options to get the game running fluidly. The main problem is DEVS releasing games not tested enough, that is where alot of the problems come into play. Games are rushed out to meet deadlines so QA is sacrificed. A cancer on the gaming industry but we put up with their crap so they keep doing it.

Also, games on PC are far superior in terms of speed/graphics when everything is right. We also have games console players could never play, like the Total War series, MMO's, and RTS games like Starcraft.

The lack of innovation is the ultimate culprit (greedy fucks are a close second.)
Video game industry is like the music industry, shitted out to meet deadlines made for the masses to make maximum profits. Look at nicki minaj - stupid hoe as a prime example (let that girl cook!!! in a fire). It's so horrible I wanna choke myself to death, but it's already got over 10 mil views on youtube and climbing lol :( The same can be said for many video games.

No, that is not what I'm implying. What I'm stating is that consoles should be released when there is a consumer need and the technology on the software and hardware side absolutely need to be upgraded. The fact is, a lot of the software stuff just isn't there yet
Of course it is, look at windows 7. Every OS Microscum release, you can hold more RAM, Better HDD's, CPU's, GPU's, soundcards ect.. And the hardware companies keep up especially in terms of gaming even though the market is ALOT less than consoles why is that? Why can PC keep up and innovate new hardware and software but consoles can't?

And of course there is always a need for a better platform to play games on, look at the consoles history as far back as Atari/com 64/Master System/Snes.

We loved all those old games but it's not like we should all be playing pitfall on the Atari, we evolve with technology
and companies that have their own tech have to play catch up and develop new tech for their own IP's and to license to other companies (Epic and Unreal Engine for example.) Factor in the time it takes to develop a game (2 or 3 years) and you're looking at the business passing you by because you're trying to keep up with the latest and greatest tech/hardware.

A new console every three years is a very flawed business design. There is no way a company can recoup the production costs in that short of a time period. No way. Impossible. Why? Because the cost to make the consoles actually are more than they sell them for and the companies make the bulk of their money on the software side (licensing tech, games and micro transactions.)

Here is an excellent link for you and everyone else to read, fam.

http://www.industrygamers.com/news/...ithout-new-consoles-says-former-activision-vp

Make sure you read the comments as well.
Most games don't take 3 years to produce and even if they did, the next gen consoles will be backward compatible so the market for that current gen would stay afloat and developers would wean off to developing for the next gen.

Also, companies that develop their own engines are always upgrading that engine, look at Quake & Unreal engines they were used for many years and constantly upgraded in house and by 3rd party programmers.
 

NAMO

Sicc OG
Apr 11, 2009
10,840
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#57
See my above post.

But I will address this.

look at that new KOTOR MMO that was a 200 million dollar failure. Mostly because of the 20GB install size. To go all digital download with games that will be in the 100GB file size, would just be suicide.
That piece of shit game died because it was built on an unfinished engine Bioscum were supposed to further develop. They don't know how to make an MMO. Fuck them I hope they die along with EA.

And the point about Steam, steam saves me money buying a game than I would from retail, why would I not use steam?
 

Dead Blue

Smokin Bud
Nov 14, 2008
4,697
1,254
113
40
CALIFORNIA
#58
See my above post.

But I will address this.



That piece of shit game died because it was built on an unfinished engine Bioscum were supposed to further develop. They don't know how to make an MMO. Fuck them I hope they die along with EA.

And the point about Steam, steam saves me money buying a game than I would from retail, why would I not use steam?
Not like Bioware made World of Warcraft or anything.
 

HERESY

THE HIDDEN HAND...
Apr 25, 2002
18,326
11,459
113
www.godscalamity.com
www.godscalamity.com
#59
The software is still part of the Console.
It's only a part of the console because the console needs it to run. But the software can be changed and manipulated. Look at the removal of the other OS feature that was in the PS3 as proof or the hacked ps3 systems.

Neither software or hardware has changed in 7 years and is holding back the potential of games.
The potential in games rests with innovation not the best graphics, best sound, etc. No, it hasn't changed in seven years but does it need to change and if so why?

So now we should agree that both are holding back the console. My point was, there is only so much you can get out of the current hardware, no amount of software upgrading can change that because it is limited.
It's not about software upgrading but the software being able to keep up with the hardware. No matter what, if things aren't solid on the software side first and you're working with fucked up code, you're going to have a shitty product. Look at any shitty port and you'll see this.

Yeah I do now, but we are arguing the same thing here but one is saying software the other is saying hardware, when it's both.
And it's a design flaw in the sense that they change the designs once the product has hit the market and a design flaw because they aren't properly utilizing what is there. For example, the PS3 has blu ray. Why can't we install full games on the HD? Why are companies not utilzing blu ray to it's full potential and instead offering compressed video?

Those PC gamers that have problems (yes we get alot more than console because we all have diff set ups) usually need to tweek their PC and have a good understanding of everything PC related. Some of the times it's the software in the game itself that causes problems, other times it's how the individual PC is set up.
And this is why console gaming isn't going anywhere. Unpack, hook it up to the tv, insert your game and play.

There is always a work around and the PC gives us more options to get the game running fluidly. The main problem is DEVS releasing games not tested enough, that is where alot of the problems come into play. Games are rushed out to meet deadlines so QA is sacrificed. A cancer on the gaming industry but we put up with their crap so they keep doing it.
And this goes back to what I'm saying. If the Devs aren't churning out good product now, fail to properly QA games, and just shit em out to meet a deadline, the same thing will happen when a new console is released. Shit it's been happening since NES days and it's happening now. Again, if they can't master the software side, no amount of hardware is going to fix their shitty animation, shitty enemy AI, bugs, etc.

Also, games on PC are far superior in terms of speed/graphics when everything is right. We also have games console players could never play, like the Total War series, MMO's, and RTS games like Starcraft.
Any game on a pc can be ported to the console. Will there be a dip in graphics? Absolutely and the hardest part (especially when it comes to RTS games) is getting the controls down. However, Halo wars proved it can be done and so the the Sid Meir console game. But don't think games like Shogun Total War and other MMO's can't be made for the console or ported because they can.

Video game industry is like the music industry, shitted out to meet deadlines made for the masses to make maximum profits. Look at nicki minaj - stupid hoe as a prime example (let that girl cook!!! in a fire). It's so horrible I wanna choke myself to death, but it's already got over 10 mil views on youtube and climbing lol :( The same can be said for many video games.
LOL, I agree with you fam and it still goes back to innovation. If you heard the exact same beat on EVERY rap album released the past year wouldn't you be upset? If you heard the same rhyme structure on EVERY rap album released the past year would you be upset? No innovation is the problem here. We've been eating up these shitty sequels and shelling out $65 without complaining and actually doing something about it, and now the game industry acts like WE owe THEM more than we do.

Of course it is, look at windows 7. Every OS Microscum release, you can hold more RAM, Better HDD's, CPU's, GPU's, soundcards ect.. And the hardware companies keep up especially in terms of gaming even though the market is ALOT less than consoles why is that? Why can PC keep up and innovate new hardware and software but consoles can't?
The software side is not there in the sense that companies that license engines are going to have to start over from scratch or revise/build on their code and others are going to have to develop code from scratch or license it and pray the licensor has enough bodies on hand to offer tech support. The hardware companies are able to keep up for several reasons. One such reason is they don't have a high overhead. Lets say a graphics card costs $300. You think it cost $300 to make? Nope. Now look at a ps3. It goes for what $250? You think it costs that much to make? No, it actually costs more which is why they have to recoup via microtransactions, PS+ and exclusives.

And of course there is always a need for a better platform to play games on, look at the consoles history as far back as Atari/com 64/Master System/Snes.
There is a only a need when the consumers demand it or when the hardware/software absolutely must be changed. In addition, a lot of times the changes is due to technological advances in other arenas. Would companies worry about a game running at 60fps and 1080p, 3D and 24 bit 5.1 if there were no hdmi, lcd tv's, blu ray/dvd players, 3D, etc? Nope.

We loved all those old games but it's not like we should all be playing pitfall on the Atari, we evolve with technology
I'm not saying to do that. I'm saying to squeeze the best out of your software and hardware before you move on, develop a new system and market it to the consumer. Have you ever heard of Too Human?

Most games don't take 3 years to produce
Actually they do hover around the 2-3 year mark like I stated and some may take even longer. Read the link I gave you, fam.

and even if they did, the next gen consoles will be backward compatible so the market for that current gen would stay afloat and developers would wean off to developing for the next gen.
How's that PS3 backwards compatibility for you? And I can't forget the fact that a lot of xbox games wouldn't even work on the 360. What the companies will do is lock the ability to play previous generation titles, charge you a fee for downloading them or give you an HD version and charge you for that. Don't believe me? Just go on Live and PSN and you'll see it for yourself.

Also, companies that develop their own engines are always upgrading that engine, look at Quake & Unreal engines they were used for many years and constantly upgraded in house and by 3rd party programmers.
Again, have you ever heard of Too Human?