Meditation-slash-Karma
- Thread starter Dmac_nasty
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Well first of all, not only humans are souls according to those literatures that preach reincarnation. Animals, plants - every living entity is a soul.
You are observing merely one planet in an entire universe. There are an innumerable number of souls. Some of them are on different planets that we have no scientific knowledge about. Also, souls are continually falling down into this material existence. It is impossible to calculate and account for each and every one of them. Any other questions?
You are observing merely one planet in an entire universe. There are an innumerable number of souls. Some of them are on different planets that we have no scientific knowledge about. Also, souls are continually falling down into this material existence. It is impossible to calculate and account for each and every one of them. Any other questions?
This is an interesting link on the subject. Some scientific research on reincarnation...
Dr. Ian Stevenson
Dr. Ian Stevenson
Thanks for the link.
Interesting read, but it fails to offer any solid proof or IMO any real supporting evidence.
This article focuses on birth defects and children who claim they are results from a previous life (it doesn’t go into any real detail about how vague or detailed these so called claims are). Unfortunately this is merely hearsay and cannot be used as evidence or confirmation of this theory.
I think the writer states it best:
“Because most (but not all) of these cases develop among persons who believe in reincarnation, we should expect that the informants for the cases would interpret them as examples according with their belief; and they usually do. It is necessary, however, for scientists to think of alternative explanations.
The most obvious explanation of these cases attributes the birthmark or birth defect on the child to chance, and the reports of the child's statements and unusual behavior then become a parental fiction intended to account for the birthmark (or birth defect) in terms of the culturally accepted belief in reincarnation.”
The objections the author provides following this statement are mainly assumptions and he failed to convince the reader these are valid points. Such as the 2nd point he makes stating that a lot of these children claim to have been poor in a previous life, therefore the parents wouldn’t want to impose such a lower status on their children so it rules out the possibility of the parents creating the account.
It also should be pointed out that the overwhelming majority of these reported cases occur in Southeast Asia, where the belief in reincarnation is most popular. So, as the author states these cases reflect their own personal beliefs.
But, as far as I know, there are no experiments for reincarnation. Because it can’t be done, there is no evidence that will be convincing either for or against reincarnation, which means if you already believe in reincarnation, I’m sure this article will seem convincing, if you don’t, it will not.
Again, I fall back on my original stance which is whether or not there is enough evidence available to believe in reincarnation, which clearly I don’t think there is or else I’d be a believer.
This article focuses on birth defects and children who claim they are results from a previous life (it doesn’t go into any real detail about how vague or detailed these so called claims are). Unfortunately this is merely hearsay and cannot be used as evidence or confirmation of this theory.
I think the writer states it best:
“Because most (but not all) of these cases develop among persons who believe in reincarnation, we should expect that the informants for the cases would interpret them as examples according with their belief; and they usually do. It is necessary, however, for scientists to think of alternative explanations.
The most obvious explanation of these cases attributes the birthmark or birth defect on the child to chance, and the reports of the child's statements and unusual behavior then become a parental fiction intended to account for the birthmark (or birth defect) in terms of the culturally accepted belief in reincarnation.”
The objections the author provides following this statement are mainly assumptions and he failed to convince the reader these are valid points. Such as the 2nd point he makes stating that a lot of these children claim to have been poor in a previous life, therefore the parents wouldn’t want to impose such a lower status on their children so it rules out the possibility of the parents creating the account.
It also should be pointed out that the overwhelming majority of these reported cases occur in Southeast Asia, where the belief in reincarnation is most popular. So, as the author states these cases reflect their own personal beliefs.
But, as far as I know, there are no experiments for reincarnation. Because it can’t be done, there is no evidence that will be convincing either for or against reincarnation, which means if you already believe in reincarnation, I’m sure this article will seem convincing, if you don’t, it will not.
Again, I fall back on my original stance which is whether or not there is enough evidence available to believe in reincarnation, which clearly I don’t think there is or else I’d be a believer.
How can the soul of a plant "upgrade"? You can do bad in this life and receive an plants body but what does a plant have to do considering it can't make a choice? Where do these plant and animal souls go when they perish physically?
Read your statement again. So the souls of other planets inhabit the bodies of humans here? Do these people explain what it's like on the other planets? How do those souls get to earth? Astral? Space? Do the planets have specific requirments of karma/reincarnation or do they simply follow "universal law"?
So we'll simply hope from one body to another while more souls "fall down" from some unknown place.......
Splendid.........Maharshi.........
Read your statement again. So the souls of other planets inhabit the bodies of humans here? Do these people explain what it's like on the other planets? How do those souls get to earth? Astral? Space? Do the planets have specific requirments of karma/reincarnation or do they simply follow "universal law"?
So we'll simply hope from one body to another while more souls "fall down" from some unknown place.......
Splendid.........Maharshi.........
Science, logic and reason are our only methods of achieving knowledge; would you like to claim otherwise? Does faith or religion provide the human race with information or perhaps you happen to know of another method of gaining knowledge?
What I meant by a scientist being limited (not to be misinterpreted as science being limited) is that there are still, obviously, things that we will learn and acquire through methodology in science, mathematics, physics, etc. The human race will continue to develop with these methods.
With that being said, my stance still stands (and there is no logical way you can refute it): there is not enough or any evidence to support these claims of supernatural activities which consequently means it is illogical to believe in them.
You’re quarrelling over ideas which do not have a shred of empirical evidence to support them. Is that logical?
What I meant by a scientist being limited (not to be misinterpreted as science being limited) is that there are still, obviously, things that we will learn and acquire through methodology in science, mathematics, physics, etc. The human race will continue to develop with these methods.
With that being said, my stance still stands (and there is no logical way you can refute it): there is not enough or any evidence to support these claims of supernatural activities which consequently means it is illogical to believe in them.
You’re quarrelling over ideas which do not have a shred of empirical evidence to support them. Is that logical?
There is automatic progression in the lesser conscious life forms. The human form of life is a crossroads where one may move up into better material existence, down into a more abominable existence, or they can transcend material existence altogether and return to the spiritual world where they are not forced to undergo birth and death.
Okay...
Do the souls here on earth now, who were previously on earth, always explain what their past life was like? Your question really boils down to, why don't we all remember our past lives? One could also ask, why don't we all remember what we were doing on October 16th, 1998. Our memory is hardly perfect.
How do souls travel? They are carried by the subtle body (mind, intelligence and false ego). Astral, space, what difference does it make? One has no conception of the subtle mind itself other than by its symptoms imposed on the gross body, so what to speak of the spirit-soul which is even more subtle than the mind?
Different planets fall into one of three categories. Earth falls ito the middle planetary system. Then there is also the lower planetary system where the inhabitants are more demoniac and the upper planetary system where the demigods reside.
Souls are constitutionally part and parcel of God, the Supreme Soul. So originally we were all in the spiritual world, but somehow or other we have fallen. In general we can say that we had a desire to become our own enjoyers. We had this desire to leave the association of God and try and become our own gods. Just look around you. Practically the whole world is engaged in trying to be God, whether they admit it or not. People are trying to be independent enjoyers, controllers, and creators of all they survey. Also consider that while many souls are falling down, some are being liberated.
Okay...
Do the souls here on earth now, who were previously on earth, always explain what their past life was like? Your question really boils down to, why don't we all remember our past lives? One could also ask, why don't we all remember what we were doing on October 16th, 1998. Our memory is hardly perfect.
How do souls travel? They are carried by the subtle body (mind, intelligence and false ego). Astral, space, what difference does it make? One has no conception of the subtle mind itself other than by its symptoms imposed on the gross body, so what to speak of the spirit-soul which is even more subtle than the mind?
Different planets fall into one of three categories. Earth falls ito the middle planetary system. Then there is also the lower planetary system where the inhabitants are more demoniac and the upper planetary system where the demigods reside.
Souls are constitutionally part and parcel of God, the Supreme Soul. So originally we were all in the spiritual world, but somehow or other we have fallen. In general we can say that we had a desire to become our own enjoyers. We had this desire to leave the association of God and try and become our own gods. Just look around you. Practically the whole world is engaged in trying to be God, whether they admit it or not. People are trying to be independent enjoyers, controllers, and creators of all they survey. Also consider that while many souls are falling down, some are being liberated.
Like I stated earlier, you are agreeing that we still have a lot to learn in all fields, so why are we closing the book on things that have been validated by a few and not by others (some dudes at Harvard or Stanford)?
For realz tho, I don't get it...how can you on one hand say there is not enough evidence, and on the other hand say, " there are still, obviously, things that we will learn and acquire through methodology in science, mathematics, physics, etc." .....? In other words are you saying we do not have 'all' the answers, or that our answers are limited..?
For realz tho, I don't get it...how can you on one hand say there is not enough evidence, and on the other hand say, " there are still, obviously, things that we will learn and acquire through methodology in science, mathematics, physics, etc." .....? In other words are you saying we do not have 'all' the answers, or that our answers are limited..?
This should be pretty easy to comprehend; I don’t understand why you’re having such a hard time following me.
I am simply stating there is not enough evidence that supports these claims (the supernatural, i.e. reincarnation, miracles, god, etc.), meaning, we should not believe in things without evidence. Comprende? I am not necessarily saying we should close the books on these topics altogether, simply that there is no reason to believe in these topics. Without solid evidence that supports the claim, there is NO logical reason to believe in them.
If a number of self proclaimed scientists came along and said they discovered Mulbiviousis which they claim is an invisible being that floats in the skies of Rome and is the source of AIDS, but did not offer any evidence to support their claims, would you believe? Would it be logical or illogical to believe in Mulbiviousis? I’m simply saying that there is no evidence supporting Mulbiviousis and until there is solid proof of this invisible being and supporting evidence, there is no logical reason to believe in it.
Same principles apply to the supernatural or reincarnation. As of today there is NO evidence which support these ideas, therefore, there is no LOGICAL reason to believe in them.
I am simply stating there is not enough evidence that supports these claims (the supernatural, i.e. reincarnation, miracles, god, etc.), meaning, we should not believe in things without evidence. Comprende? I am not necessarily saying we should close the books on these topics altogether, simply that there is no reason to believe in these topics. Without solid evidence that supports the claim, there is NO logical reason to believe in them.
If a number of self proclaimed scientists came along and said they discovered Mulbiviousis which they claim is an invisible being that floats in the skies of Rome and is the source of AIDS, but did not offer any evidence to support their claims, would you believe? Would it be logical or illogical to believe in Mulbiviousis? I’m simply saying that there is no evidence supporting Mulbiviousis and until there is solid proof of this invisible being and supporting evidence, there is no logical reason to believe in it.
Same principles apply to the supernatural or reincarnation. As of today there is NO evidence which support these ideas, therefore, there is no LOGICAL reason to believe in them.
No, no comprendo.
I guess it is just a difference of philosophy, which is cool.
In my book, just because a scientist can't explain or prove something by written words or a discourse, something which is out of his context to explain, doesn't mean it is not true or real.
And in your book, if there isn't cold hard facts to back something up, it must not be true.
Like I said, difference of philosophy on this subject, and I respect that.
I guess it is just a difference of philosophy, which is cool.
In my book, just because a scientist can't explain or prove something by written words or a discourse, something which is out of his context to explain, doesn't mean it is not true or real.
And in your book, if there isn't cold hard facts to back something up, it must not be true.
Like I said, difference of philosophy on this subject, and I respect that.
@ 206 After reading these posts (and past threads) I can HONESTLYsay I see WHY you don't believe in a "god" or "creator".
@916 you said the following:
There is automatic progression in the lesser conscious life forms.
Progression to what? Are you telling me that something which started off as an amoeba soul can become a human soul? Or are you telling me we start as a "soul" with no specific "type" (raw material) and become a specific type of soul?
So lets say an ant soul comes into existance. This soul works it's way up? How? Over time? What are the guidelines for doing so? How does this ant soul move up? It's simply automatic right? How long does it take? 10,000 years for each form?
The human form of life is a crossroads where one may move up into better material existence, down into a more abominable existence, or they can transcend material existence altogether and return to the spiritual world where they are not forced to undergo birth and death
1. Please define material existance
2. Please define abominable existance
so the human form is where one comes to the crossroads? Ok let me ask you a question. Do animals SIN or make bad judgements (two different things here)? If a lion kills a human being does that place the lion soul four slots down and further from being human? So when do the lower forms (souls) have a knowledge of right and wrong? When they become HUMAN? So it moves up the ladder, becomes a human soul and that starts the process of right and wrong?
Okay...
If you have no scientific knowledge about the planets where does your knowledge of these planets come from? Now before you answer read and understand the question bro. I'm not saying you NEED science to prove that these planets exist. What I'm asking is what is YOUR proof that they exist? Is it a candy wrapper, a crsytal ball, a scripture, research, spyware or a wmd?
Do the souls here on earth now, who were previously on earth, always explain what their past life was like?
No but according to what mosa said some of them do. If people here are able to remember past life on this planet how come they can't remember "My name is Samus Aran, I was born on the planet Zebes and raised by the Chozo"? Can you provide me with ANY source where someone explains another planet and another life?
So our memory is hardly perfect but people talk about past lives here on earth. As I asked before can you provide me with ANY source where someone explains another planet and another life? I would love to read that info for myself.
How do souls travel? They are carried by the subtle body (mind, intelligence and false ego). Astral, space, what difference does it make? One has no conception of the subtle mind itself other than by its symptoms imposed on the gross body, so what to speak of the spirit-soul which is even more subtle than the mind?
So basically souls travel from one body to the next via mind, intelligence and false ego? Thats how a soul inhabits the body in the womb? Through mind and intelligence?
Different planets fall into one of three categories. Earth falls ito the middle planetary system. Then there is also the lower planetary system where the inhabitants are more demoniac and the upper planetary system where the demigods reside.
Ok this is really good info here but it doesn't answer my question. What are the requirements for those souls to enter the earth realms? Can they CHOOSE to come to earth or is that dictated by karma? So the untouchables go where? They go to the lower planets? What are the names of some of these lower planets? Do the planets have specific requirments of karma/reincarnation or do they simply follow "universal law"?
Souls are constitutionally part and parcel of God, the Supreme Soul. So originally we were all in the spiritual world, but somehow or other we have fallen. In general we can say that we had a desire to become our own enjoyers. We had this desire to leave the association of God and try and become our own gods. Just look around you. Practically the whole world is engaged in trying to be God, whether they admit it or not. People are trying to be independent enjoyers, controllers, and creators of all they survey. Also consider that while many souls are falling down, some are being liberated.
I will agree with you to some extent. However I do not believe we were all in the spiritual realm as entities or "beings" with thought. I believe MAN (adam) had a pure physical form but pure spiritual thought. I believe the only person to revert back to the original form is yeshua.
:hgk:
@916 you said the following:
There is automatic progression in the lesser conscious life forms.
Progression to what? Are you telling me that something which started off as an amoeba soul can become a human soul? Or are you telling me we start as a "soul" with no specific "type" (raw material) and become a specific type of soul?
So lets say an ant soul comes into existance. This soul works it's way up? How? Over time? What are the guidelines for doing so? How does this ant soul move up? It's simply automatic right? How long does it take? 10,000 years for each form?
The human form of life is a crossroads where one may move up into better material existence, down into a more abominable existence, or they can transcend material existence altogether and return to the spiritual world where they are not forced to undergo birth and death
1. Please define material existance
2. Please define abominable existance
so the human form is where one comes to the crossroads? Ok let me ask you a question. Do animals SIN or make bad judgements (two different things here)? If a lion kills a human being does that place the lion soul four slots down and further from being human? So when do the lower forms (souls) have a knowledge of right and wrong? When they become HUMAN? So it moves up the ladder, becomes a human soul and that starts the process of right and wrong?
Okay...
If you have no scientific knowledge about the planets where does your knowledge of these planets come from? Now before you answer read and understand the question bro. I'm not saying you NEED science to prove that these planets exist. What I'm asking is what is YOUR proof that they exist? Is it a candy wrapper, a crsytal ball, a scripture, research, spyware or a wmd?
Do the souls here on earth now, who were previously on earth, always explain what their past life was like?
No but according to what mosa said some of them do. If people here are able to remember past life on this planet how come they can't remember "My name is Samus Aran, I was born on the planet Zebes and raised by the Chozo"? Can you provide me with ANY source where someone explains another planet and another life?
So our memory is hardly perfect but people talk about past lives here on earth. As I asked before can you provide me with ANY source where someone explains another planet and another life? I would love to read that info for myself.
How do souls travel? They are carried by the subtle body (mind, intelligence and false ego). Astral, space, what difference does it make? One has no conception of the subtle mind itself other than by its symptoms imposed on the gross body, so what to speak of the spirit-soul which is even more subtle than the mind?
So basically souls travel from one body to the next via mind, intelligence and false ego? Thats how a soul inhabits the body in the womb? Through mind and intelligence?
Different planets fall into one of three categories. Earth falls ito the middle planetary system. Then there is also the lower planetary system where the inhabitants are more demoniac and the upper planetary system where the demigods reside.
Ok this is really good info here but it doesn't answer my question. What are the requirements for those souls to enter the earth realms? Can they CHOOSE to come to earth or is that dictated by karma? So the untouchables go where? They go to the lower planets? What are the names of some of these lower planets? Do the planets have specific requirments of karma/reincarnation or do they simply follow "universal law"?
Souls are constitutionally part and parcel of God, the Supreme Soul. So originally we were all in the spiritual world, but somehow or other we have fallen. In general we can say that we had a desire to become our own enjoyers. We had this desire to leave the association of God and try and become our own gods. Just look around you. Practically the whole world is engaged in trying to be God, whether they admit it or not. People are trying to be independent enjoyers, controllers, and creators of all they survey. Also consider that while many souls are falling down, some are being liberated.
I will agree with you to some extent. However I do not believe we were all in the spiritual realm as entities or "beings" with thought. I believe MAN (adam) had a pure physical form but pure spiritual thought. I believe the only person to revert back to the original form is yeshua.
:hgk:
No, once again I am saying there is no reason to believe in something without supporting evidence. That's it, plain & simple. I'm not necessarily saying it isn’t true, just that there isn’t enough evidence to consider it to be true.
Take being an Atheist for example. I’m not saying there isn’t a god; I’m saying there isn’t enough evidence to believe in a god. Hence the definition of Atheist: the lack of belief in a god or gods.
Likewise.
Take being an Atheist for example. I’m not saying there isn’t a god; I’m saying there isn’t enough evidence to believe in a god. Hence the definition of Atheist: the lack of belief in a god or gods.
Likewise.
I now classify you as a "weak" athiest bro. This is NOT a "bad" name for an athiest it simply is applied to an athiest with a certain belief structure.
weak athiesm: Lack of BELIEF in a diety or gods (most likely this lack is attributed to science and logic)
Strong athiesm: Gods do NOT exist.
At first I thought you were strong but I see you're weak. BTW these terms are from ATHIESTS. I don't believe in "athiesm" but in no shape or form am I calling you weak or strong. I just wanted to clear that up.
Actually 206 Mulbiviousis is quite real. That little voice you heard that said "mulbiviousis" was actually THE Mulbiviousis. Thats where it came from.
Btw my "why you don't believe in god" comment was actually made before you posted your answers. You got your response up before I did. What I mean is I can see why you don't believe in a god (because a lot of this stuff does NOT make sense).
weak athiesm: Lack of BELIEF in a diety or gods (most likely this lack is attributed to science and logic)
Strong athiesm: Gods do NOT exist.
At first I thought you were strong but I see you're weak. BTW these terms are from ATHIESTS. I don't believe in "athiesm" but in no shape or form am I calling you weak or strong. I just wanted to clear that up.
Actually 206 Mulbiviousis is quite real. That little voice you heard that said "mulbiviousis" was actually THE Mulbiviousis. Thats where it came from.
Btw my "why you don't believe in god" comment was actually made before you posted your answers. You got your response up before I did. What I mean is I can see why you don't believe in a god (because a lot of this stuff does NOT make sense).
Luckily there are things called Mathematics and Physics that prove the existence of neutrons and electrons. You don’t necessarily have to see something in order for it to be real. Can you see gravity? Can you see gravity pulling down your pencil when you drop it from your hand?
Perhaps with the advancement of science, particularly nanotechnology, we will be able to see neutrons.
Perhaps with the advancement of science, particularly nanotechnology, we will be able to see neutrons.