Mayweather vs. Pacquiao, will it happen?

[HERESY]

I hate Haymon because many big fights have stopped from happening because of him. At first, hbo felt like they had no choice but to deal with him, but not anymore. That's why I'm asking you if you like the fights showtime has been releasing as of late. Do you?

I like any fight that is competitive and the fighters are giving it 100%. I have HBO because Comcast offered it in a package deal, not because I like HBO. As for SHO, I have to watch their cards via stream and I do.

Al Haymon does not and never did, control these stations. Al Haymon does not and never did, control a governing/sanctioning body or organization such as the WBC, WBA, IBF, etc. You aren't getting the fights you want then you start there. Is Haymon responsible for when mandatories aren't enforced?

 

[battle619]

No, but he's telling his fighters not to fight his mandatories. Because if they do they all lose

 

[2-0-Sixx]

I like any fight that is competitive and the fighters are giving it 100%. I have HBO because Comcast offered it in a package deal, not because I like HBO. As for SHO, I have to watch their cards via stream and I do.

Al Haymon does not and never did, control these stations. Al Haymon does not and never did, control a governing/sanctioning body or organization such as the WBC, WBA, IBF, etc. You aren't getting the fights you want then you start there. Is Haymon responsible for when mandatories aren't enforced?

Haymon has Espinoza wrapped around his finger just like he did with Greenberg on HBO. Ultimately the responsibility does rest on the networks to reject shitty fights but it's on Haymon as well to put together fights people want to see. He has over a hundred fighters signed to him. Let that sink in - over a hundred, and yet we rarely get any great fights out of him. The sanctioning bodies have tried to force many of his fighters to fight, sometimes we get them (Mattysse vs Garcia, Lara vs Vanes for example) other times we don't (Quillin dropping his belt for example, the WBC taking a stand and refused to let Garcia vs Salka be a title fight are examples).

Once Ken Hershman came to HBO, he made it clear to Haymon that he wasn't going to buy shitty showcase fights and Haymon as a result took his business to Showtime, Espinoza obviously already had strong ties with Haymon being that he was an employee of Golden Boy. So it's on Haymon and Espinoza to make good fights and they simply aren't. HBO tried to force Haymon to make quality fights and he bounced.

 

[naner12]

Haymon has Espinoza wrapped around his finger just like he did with Greenberg on HBO. Ultimately the responsibility does rest on the networks to reject shitty fights but it's on Haymon as well to put together fights people want to see. He has over a hundred fighters signed to him. Let that sink in - over a hundred, and yet we rarely get any great fights out of him. The sanctioning bodies have tried to force many of his fighters to fight, sometimes we get them (Mattysse vs Garcia, Lara vs Vanes for example) other times we don't (Quillin dropping his belt for example, the WBC taking a stand and refused to let Garcia vs Salka be a title fight are examples).

Once Ken Hershman came to HBO, he made it clear to Haymon that he wasn't going to buy shitty showcase fights and Haymon as a result took his business to Showtime, Espinoza obviously already had strong ties with Haymon being that he was an employee of Golden Boy. So it's on Haymon and Espinoza to make good fights and they simply aren't. HBO tried to force Haymon to make quality fights and he bounced.

I don't like anything that Haymon does really. I don't agree with that at all, it's up to Haymon to do whatever is best for his client. If Showtime is buying scrub fights at premium prices why in the world would he be obligated to make harder fights? He'd only have do make tough fights if his hand was forced.

His loyalty as a manager/adviser/whatever the fuck he is to his client not to the fans.

 

[2-0-Sixx]

I don't like anything that Haymon does really. I don't agree with that at all, it's up to Haymon to do whatever is best for his client. If Showtime is buying scrub fights at premium prices why in the world would he be obligated to make harder fights? He'd only have do make tough fights if his hand was forced.

His loyalty as a manager/adviser/whatever the fuck he is to his client not to the fans.

Because it's actually hurting a lot of his clients not helping them. Look at Petey Quillin and Stevenson for example. They are wasting the little time left so by the time they actually do take tough fights they'll probably lose.

I've thought for a long time now the Al Haymon formula does more harm than good in the long run, besides a couple of the top guys like Floyd. It's a bad business model. Short term money instead of looking long time. Can't really build a fighter when they're accustomed to fighting bums.

The other problem he's created by having this formula is that he's isolated his fighters to Showtime. With well over a hundred fighters signed to him obviously they can't all fight with the limited amount of shows Showtime has per year, so as a result we see guys under Haymon only fighting once or maybe twice a year. Again this doesn't help build the fighter, the inactivity and isolation hurts them long term.

But yeah you're right as long as Showtime keeps buying shit fights he'll keep doing it until Espinoza gets fired.

 

[naner12]

He's screwing them out of money in a sense. Let's say Santa Cruz for example gets $1M for fighting Rigondeaux or $750,000 for his fight against Roman, and is likely to get a similar check against Jesus Ruiz. It's 2 nearly guaranteed wins for similar or more money for one good purse and a likely loss.

The Quillin situation was just ridiculous, but when people bring up things like RN offering huge contracts to Wilder & Thurman. It's also possible that RN did it knowing that Haymon wouldn't let them accept so it gets RN publicity and makes Haymon & co look bad. As far as I know they haven't offered anything close to that kind of money to anyone else.

I think Haymon's terrible for boxing, worse than most, I just don't think it's on him to make good fights. It's on people in higher positions to force him to make good fights are kick rocks. I honestly can't imagine Showtime not being able to get good fights without buying all of Haymon's junk.

 

[2-0-Sixx]

He's screwing them out of money in a sense. Let's say Santa Cruz for example gets $1M for fighting Rigondeaux or $750,000 for his fight against Roman, and is likely to get a similar check against Jesus Ruiz. It's 2 nearly guaranteed wins for similar or more money for one good purse and a likely loss.

The Quillin situation was just ridiculous, but when people bring up things like RN offering huge contracts to Wilder & Thurman. It's also possible that RN did it knowing that Haymon wouldn't let them accept so it gets RN publicity and makes Haymon & co look bad. As far as I know they haven't offered anything close to that kind of money to anyone else.

I think Haymon's terrible for boxing, worse than most, I just don't think it's on him to make good fights. It's on people in higher positions to force him to make good fights are kick rocks. I honestly can't imagine Showtime not being able to get good fights without buying all of Haymon's junk.

I'm sure that's part of Haymons tactics though. You have to buy his junk in order to get something else. I'm quite sure he's manipulated Showtime something awful over the last 2-3 years.

As for Roc Nation, I don't see any reason to believe their offer wasn't with the intent of promoting the fight. I think they were waiting for the right kind of title fight to go to a purse bid, and that was a perfect opportunity so they jumped on it.

 

[naner12]

As for Roc Nation, I don't see any reason to believe their offer wasn't with the intent of promoting the fight. I think they were waiting for the right kind of title fight to go to a purse bid, and that was a perfect opportunity so they jumped on it.

I agree with that, I meant the huge multi year contracts to Thurman & Wilder. I think they legit wanted Quillin Vs. Korobov cause it was a guaranteed network TV fight.

 

[2-0-Sixx]

I agree with that, I meant the huge multi year contracts to Thurman & Wilder. I think they legit wanted Quillin Vs. Korobov cause it was a guaranteed network TV fight.

Gotcha.

Have you seen any details on the contracts to the fighters they did sign recently? I'm curious to see what kind of deals they got.

 

[naner12]

Gotcha.

Have you seen any details on the contracts to the fighters they did sign recently? I'm curious to see what kind of deals they got.

No idea. We'll likely at least see their purses after the first few Fox cards they put on.

 

[HERESY]

It's a conspiracy here. I'm conspired against, Haymon is conspired against and Stevenson is conspired against.

 

[battle619]

Naw, bro. You are just being enlightened.

 

[Tony]

According to sleeze ball Michael Cunt:


Adviser: Manny Pacquiao being updated on Floyd Mayweather Jr. talks
Lem Satterfield
December 31, 2014
Manny Pacquiao was updated this morning on ongoing negotiations for a potential May 2 bout with Floyd Mayweather Jr., according to Pacquiao’s adviser Michael Koncz.

“We’re still in negotiations with Floyd’s group through Top Rank. I spoke to Manny this morning. I gave Manny what is perceived to be a counter offer from the Mayweather people,” said Koncz, who then referred to Top Rank CEO Bob Arum.

“We discussed it and now I’ve given instruction to Bob to counter their counter. We’ve been going back and forth. Bob has been negotiating with the powers that be on Floyd’s side for the past couple of weeks. There’s been offers and counter offers, and a couple of days ago Bob called me and gave me allegedly where Floyd’s side is, and I discussed that with Manny two hours ago.

“Now I’ve given Bob our response to that. I’m never overly optimistic until the contract is signed, but the good thing is that we’re still going back and forth.”

Manny said that money isn't an issue.... then why are they countering offers?

 

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Manny said that money isn't an issue.... then why are they countering offers?

Location?
Glove size?
Glove brand?
Who walks out first?
How long they have to enter the ring?
Ring size?
Number of promotional tours?
Number of press conferences?
When the press conference dates are?

Maybe 100 other things.

Do you think the contract is one page with two numbers on it?

 

[Tony]

See that's the problem..... they're trying to negotiate like Manny is still on top or 1A. Floyd said repeatedly, when Oscar was the A side he accepted the terms to make the fight. Pacquiao needs to do the same. If he wins, he'll be the A side in the rematch.

Floyd is the A side, regardless, why are they still countering offers? Time to quit playing games and make the fight.

Location? Glove size? Glove brand? etc.... that can be worked out easily.

They're still negotiating over "money" like Floyd said in the interview. Pay attention to what's going on and read between the lines.

 

[Coach E. No]

See that's the problem..... they're trying to negotiate like Manny is still on top or 1A. Floyd said repeatedly, when Oscar was the A side he accepted the terms to make the fight. Pacquiao needs to do the same. If he wins, he'll be the A side in the rematch.

Floyd is the A side, regardless, why are they still countering offers? Time to quit playing games and make the fight.

Location? Glove size? Glove brand? etc.... that can be worked out easily.

They're still negotiating over "money" like Floyd said in the interview. Pay attention to what's going on and read between the lines.

Floyd was NOWHERE near the level that Manny is when he fought Oscar though. He was lucky to do the numbers that Manny did for Algieri. Floyd had fought Gatti, Judah, and Baldomir on PPV as the headliner, that's it. He was an incredible fighter, but not known to people other than hardcore fans at that point. They are the 2 biggest stars in the world. Manny already cleared out an entire era of fighters basically and is out of opponents that he can fight at 140 and 147 that people will give a crap about. He's fought so many top fighters, that people don't even want to see him fight someone like Crawford. Does he sell as well as Floyd? No, he's nowhere near the salesman that Floyd is and now he's been knocked out too. Great. Does he deserve pennies on the dollar because of that? No, he's still massively popular and wildly successful. Manny will concede on money I'm sure, but not for an insulting percentage, nor should he.

 

[2-0-Sixx]

See that's the problem..... they're trying to negotiate like Manny is still on top or 1A. Floyd said repeatedly, when Oscar was the A side he accepted the terms to make the fight. Pacquiao needs to do the same. If he wins, he'll be the A side in the rematch.

Floyd is the A side, regardless, why are they still countering offers? Time to quit playing games and make the fight.

.

You're talking about Manny fucking Pacquiao not Victor Ortiz. He's one of the biggest fighters on the planet. They are both "A side" fighters. We all understand Floyd will get more money and deserves more money and is the bigger PPV draw in America but as it's been explained to you multiple times the only way Floyd could ever achieve a $100 million dollar purse is against Pacquiao. No one else. It takes them both together and only together can they create the richest fight in history.

 

[battle619]

Pacquiao Likely Back in Macau in November, Says Koncz - Boxing News

Let's read then T @Tony ! This shows that many doesn't need Floyd financially at all. Manny can go back to China and make another $25 mill. Floyd can fight whoever and make $32 mill. But Floyd WILL NOT make $100 mill fighting anyone else! Do you understand? And I've been asking this question and no one is giving an answer: What is Al Haymon and Ellerbe done to try to make this fight happen?

 

[battle619]

UAE Group Pulls Offer From Mayweather, Rips Him - Boxing News

It seems like they were referring to Haymon. Now there will be no step aside money like Floyd wanted, it's either Top Rank and HBO is involved or no fight.

 

[Tony]

They are both "A side" fighters

See this is why the fight isn't or hasn't happened yet. Manny has to concede. He is not the "A side"....... Floyd is the A side, Manny has lost leverage by losing fights, getting knocked out, and dipping PPV numbers. Accept the (65/35) terms and let's get it on.