Marx Was Right All Along

[Mr. Nice Guy]

smart ass

LOL


So another way of saying "good point, I don't like it, but I don't have the capacity to come up with a reasonable argument to refute it"?

 

[2-0-Sixx]

No it is not. The definition for capitalism may relatively new, but the interaction that the definition describes is not new.

Define capitalism.

 

[2-0-Sixx]

@2-0-sixx, do you think startups in america can benefit from using a business model rooted in communism? If so, what would the startup need to survive or evolve?

what do you mean by startups?

 

[HERESY]

what do you mean by startups?

New companies/business that are seeking venture capital or already have it but have been operating for less than 2 years.

 

[2-0-Sixx]

@2-0-sixx, do you think startups in america can benefit from using a business model rooted in communism? If so, what would the startup need to survive or evolve?

New companies/business that are seeking venture capital or already have it but have been operating for less than 2 years.

I have no idea, the thought has never crossed my mind

. Give me a while to soak that up

 

[HERESY]

I have no idea, the thought has never crossed my mind

. Give me a while to soak that up

As soon as you come up with something let me know. This is vital.

 

[Fucky McFuckerson]

My god man, are you serious?

Very.

How long has mankind existed? How long have societies/civilization been around for? 10,000+ years?? What was before capitalism? feudalism? How long was that around? So I ask you, is capitalism a relatively knew idea or not?

I dont know..is it? Thats what im trying to establish. From my understanding, communism and capitalism werent called such if they DID exist 500+ years ago.

The advancement of technology goes hand-in-hand with my way of thinking.

So does mine. My point is, could there be capitalism in a country that didnt have the technology to spread a product around more than a coulple of states/territories? If so, how could it be capitalism on any larger scale than a city or town?

I really do not understand your point here.

I was merely talking about human nature and GRRED and ENVY. Even with a socilaist type of architecture, you CAN NOT stop greed..you CAN NOT stop envy: we as humans ALWAYS want more.

No actually the entire point of this thread was Karl Marx was right. The study of social evolution, of society, the understanding of history such as understanding how capitalism replaced feudalism and coming to the conclusion that communism will replace capitalism. Stay on topic.

Fair enough. He may have been right about capitalism, but he is yet to be right about socialism...i just dont think it will work. But hey, thats just me.

There is no rule that says you cannot have a premium microwave, a nice car, flat screen TV, etc. under communism. Again, communism is an economic system, a way which will allow a society based on common ownership and control of the means of production, i.e rather than a small rich layer of society controlling the wealth and exploiting the workers, the workers would democratically own the wealth and make decisions.

And you still feel that EVERYONE would just fall in line with that? I guess i just dont have that much faith in mankind.

And you fail to understand there is a process, there must be a change of consciousness, and there have been countless examples of this, shit even in the us 30 or so years ago, during the 60's and 70's there existed a revolutionary view, a new level of consciousness throughout the masses that did not really exist prior.

Thats great, but what does this have to do with changing human nature? Can you STOP someone from being greedy? Having envy? Wanting MORE?

You just killed your arguement by saying "communist government." Communism under Marxist terminology is "a classless, stateless and oppression-free society."

Sorry...political ideology...better?

North Korea is a very distorted, fucked up version of a totalitarian Stalinist-like dictatorship. Very anti-marxist in every way.

The same could be said about mormons in relation to those who worship god. Point is, they still worship god...no?

But I get what youre saying.

Have you learned nothing from my posts over the years?

To be quite honest..i really doint give a shit about economics/politics at ALL...I just dont find it in the least bit interesting. The only reason i came into this thread was becuase of the psychological aspect that was brought fourth by ThaG.

Russia degenerated into a totalitarian, Stalinist dictatorship, which in turn changed the shape and face of "communism." As bad as it was, many people and countries found Stalinism a much better alternative to being on the wrong side of capitalism (those countries being exploited the most by the powerful capitalist countries).

I can dig that, but thats merely picking the lesser of two evils, isnt it?

I have posted countless times and provided links on how/why Russia turned out the way it did. Here is everything you need to know:

Russia: How the Bureaucracy Seized Power

The Revolution Betrayed by Leon Trotsky

Stalinism and Bolshevism By Leon Trotsky

I may run through these...but i cant say that i will for sure. I have to really be interested in the subject matter in order to focus fully and soak up the information.

If you cannot learn any new insight and basic understanding from the above links then I don't know how else to help.

LOL...i never asked for your help in the first place, but thanks regardless.

I think you assume i am AGAINST a different form of socioeconomical structure, which is not true. As you are, I am fed up with big industry and extreme wealth...we live in Seattle, so we see it FIRST HAND. I should care who gets my money but for some reason, i just dont (big company vs. mom/pop store). Maybe its me only giving a fuck about ME and being selfish..it is what it is. However, i dont go to Starbucks and i refuse to shop at Wal-Mart.

What happens when someone gets greedy again, if a socialist structure becomes the main ecomic structure, and decides to find a way to fuck it off? Then what? You just CANT stop humans from being humans...thats all im saying.

 

[Fucky McFuckerson]

No it is not. The definition for capitalism may relatively new, but the interaction that the definition describes is not new.

Just like racism existed far before the definition of racism, capitalism existed long before we defined it.

Thank you. This is what i meant by relatively new idea.

 

[2-0-Sixx]

Alright, I just fucked off at work all day replying to you monkeys (lol) so the remaining 45 minutes I have here I'm actually going to have to do a lil work. I'll respond to you later comrades.

P.S
Nice to see a good conversation in the GOM forum again. Reminds me a bit of the old days (minus annoying mcleansnatch)

 

[Mr. Nice Guy]

@2-0-sixx, do you think startups in america can benefit from using a business model rooted in communism? If so, what would the startup need to survive or evolve?

Absolutely they could benefit and thrive from modeling their business models off communist principals.

The reason it can work in this micro enviroment and not the macro is the organizations themselves still experience external competition from other organizations.

Starting a business where the employees had higher stakes in the company would be a good way to attract and maintain a high level of talent in your organization. Many companies are already shifting towards more individual responsibility with less defined hours and highers stake in the organizations success and direction (3m, google) and away from hierarchical environments.


Differentiation.

 

[Fucky McFuckerson]

Starting a business where the employees had higher stakes in the company would be a good way to attract and maintain a high level of talent in your organization. Many companies are already shifting towards more individual responsibility with less defined hours and highers stake in the organizations success and direction (3m, google) and away from hierarchical environments.


Differentiation.

Doing this would have a company fill up with Theory Y workers, as opposed to Theory X wrokers...which is a good thing.

 

[Collapse]

But how can capitalism even survive in the US at this point, this is simply the governments fault? LOL, they are the ones that are keeping it alive! The only reason it still exists to support this way of living is through Imperialism, i.e america can only survive by exploiting other countries at this point. US Capitalism has been in decay for years. This is why we invade Iraq or overthrow democracies in 3rd world countries and install puppet regimes to exploit their natural resources.

Free markets can bring back this economy back.

And that is the 1st time i have ever heard anyone say we invade countries because we cant maintain our country.

 

[ThaG]

The only problem is..becuase capitalism was and has been implemented for such a long period, you ouwld have to de-program and re-prgoram and entire population to beleive that we all need to equal. People want more, no matter how you slice it. People see others with more and with the freedom to HAVE more, they will yearn for it. You ever wonder why North Korea is darn near completely shut off from the rest of thw rodl? So the citizens wont see what the rest of the world has and want that (in theory anyway).

You would have to bascially re-wire the entire nation to think outside of something that capitalism created: greed and envy.

it's the other way round, capitalism is the product of "greed and envy", and "greed and envy" are just another name for our most basic instinct driving our behavior

 

[ThaG]

Free markets can bring back this economy back.

And that is the 1st time i have ever heard anyone say we invade countries because we cant maintain our country.

Free markets can only speed up the real crash that's going to occur in the next decade or two.

Everything we do is absolutely unsustainable and free markets can only make the matters worse

 

[Collapse]

Free markets can only speed up the real crash that's going to occur in the next decade or two.

Everything we do is absolutely unsustainable and free markets can only make the matters worse

Bullshit, we aren't even using free market economics, only Keynesian economics.

We are running on credit, not savings. Two different things.

 

[Fucky McFuckerson]

it's the other way round, capitalism is the product of "greed and envy", and "greed and envy" are just another name for our most basic instinct driving our behavior

I tend to agree with this and because this is the case, will socialism even work?

 

[The Duke of Earl]

Alright, I just fucked off at work all day replying to you monkeys (lol) so the remaining 45 minutes I have here I'm actually going to have to do a lil work. I'll respond to you later comrades.

P.S
Nice to see a good conversation in the GOM forum again. Reminds me a bit of the old days (minus annoying mcleansnatch)

naw we got swoop187 , what ever the fuck that douche fags name is

 

[The Duke of Earl]

it's the other way round, capitalism is the product of "greed and envy", and "greed and envy" are just another name for our most basic instinct driving our behavior

i don't believe greed and envy is something that is inherent in every human being and that it is a learned behavior .

 

[JoMoDo]

Communism + Capitalism = China


any 'ism' will always be separated by the have's and have not's. There will always be a ruling class, and that class will always be susceptible to corruption.

 

[The Duke of Earl]

*shoots self in the head*