Important American History (Black Panthers)
- Thread starter 2-0-Sixx
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You guys should check out Spike Lee and Roger G Smith "The Huey P Newton Story" I got this solo play by Roger G Smith on DVD a few weeks ago and that shit is pretty amazing. Roger G Smith does a great impersonation of Huey P Newton.
Here is an interview he did with some clips
http://www.pbs.org/hueypnewton/revolution/revolution_journey.html
Here is an interview he did with some clips
http://www.pbs.org/hueypnewton/revolution/revolution_journey.html
good read 206!
Did you all know that the "Black Panther" symbol was first used in Lowndes County Alabama? It was printed on voteing ballots for those who were illiterate.This idea was the result of the Freedom Fighters who were trying to help blacks get the right to vote in the rual part of Bama called the "Black Belt"... During the 60's the Southern Democrats used the Rooster.. Kind of the same way people associate the Elephant with the Republicans and the Donkey witht he Democrats. When one muses about the events in a tilliological perspective, it seems almost inevitable that Stokely Charmicael would join and be apart of the Panthers. Too bad the CIA was successful in supressing the Panthers by introducing free base (the predecessor to Crack) into the black community and lulled the movement to a violent close.
Did you all know that the "Black Panther" symbol was first used in Lowndes County Alabama? It was printed on voteing ballots for those who were illiterate.This idea was the result of the Freedom Fighters who were trying to help blacks get the right to vote in the rual part of Bama called the "Black Belt"... During the 60's the Southern Democrats used the Rooster.. Kind of the same way people associate the Elephant with the Republicans and the Donkey witht he Democrats. When one muses about the events in a tilliological perspective, it seems almost inevitable that Stokely Charmicael would join and be apart of the Panthers. Too bad the CIA was successful in supressing the Panthers by introducing free base (the predecessor to Crack) into the black community and lulled the movement to a violent close.
Been Drinkin' is definitely an ignorant muthafucka. A major part of America's race problem is because of people like him who don't want to believe that skin color is still an issue. Wealth, status and power is an issue, but race is aone of the determining factors in how much wealth, status and power that you have. Peace.
The Panther also extorted money from local nieghborhood shops and would get you to give up your money for the "cause" one way or the other (robbery or just destroy your store).
The Oakland PD had officers undercover in the Panthers, my grandfather went undercover in the Panthers for some time, he also went to high school with huey.
The Oakland PD had officers undercover in the Panthers, my grandfather went undercover in the Panthers for some time, he also went to high school with huey.
I had a lot of shit I was going to post in here, but I am going to limit myself out of respect. But there are a few things I want to address.
1. Anyone who believes the Black Panther Party was an innocent bunch of African-Americans fighting for civil rights is mistaken. There was racism and black supremacy prevalant throughout many branches.
2. Anyone who compares the Black Panther Party to the KKK is in need of brain surgery. The KKK was hatefully/racially motivated, with an agenda of destruction. The BPP was aimed at improving standards for others, including white people in dire need.
2-0-Sixx posted the following in response to questioning of racism within the Black Panther Party:
Do you think that this is the way all Black Panthers operated? Later on in your post it talks about Carmichael being "adamantly against allowing whites into the black liberation movement". While this may not be the inner class workings of systematic racism, it clearly exemplafies racist practices by way of desegregation, followed by an attempt at justifying these actions. Without white people, it is just a racial war. Not only that, but this conflicts with the principles of Malcom X's beleif of "international working class unity across the spectrum of color and gender". So how can we use these beleifs to distort the image of racism towards whites when it would only be a matter of time when the newly appointed leader would go against these principles and object to any white skinned people be a part of the movement.
How do you know they weren't? 2-0-Sixx posted the core beliefs of the black panthers and what motivated them to begin an uprising against the American government. But as noted in this thread, the BPP grew to over 5,000 members, many of which opposed whites helping them. Just as your "informed" opinion has lead you to believe that whites must have been wrong in their thinking that black panthers were racist, mine will say that many of the branches of the BPP were misinformed and illadvised of their duties, thus the beginning of opposition to white people helping the cause. Black KKK might be "bullshit", but black supremacy and racism was a reality.
The Klu Klux Klan justifies racism *exactly* the way you just did.
Hey, lets hang them ni&*$rs so we can reduce the crime rate.
My view is this: Everything Huey P. Newton created was a work of art, something I would have loved to be a part of, but I think that a lot of blacks got the wrong idea and joined the party for the wrong reasons. Trying to seperate whites from the movement was a big mistake because you're just going to make your enemy stronger. What they should have done is try to reach and recruit *more* white people. It's a tragedy what happened to this revolution -- probably the last revolution we will ever see, at least without widespread bloodshed.
1. Anyone who believes the Black Panther Party was an innocent bunch of African-Americans fighting for civil rights is mistaken. There was racism and black supremacy prevalant throughout many branches.
2. Anyone who compares the Black Panther Party to the KKK is in need of brain surgery. The KKK was hatefully/racially motivated, with an agenda of destruction. The BPP was aimed at improving standards for others, including white people in dire need.
2-0-Sixx posted the following in response to questioning of racism within the Black Panther Party:
Do you think that this is the way all Black Panthers operated? Later on in your post it talks about Carmichael being "adamantly against allowing whites into the black liberation movement". While this may not be the inner class workings of systematic racism, it clearly exemplafies racist practices by way of desegregation, followed by an attempt at justifying these actions. Without white people, it is just a racial war. Not only that, but this conflicts with the principles of Malcom X's beleif of "international working class unity across the spectrum of color and gender". So how can we use these beleifs to distort the image of racism towards whites when it would only be a matter of time when the newly appointed leader would go against these principles and object to any white skinned people be a part of the movement.
How do you know they weren't? 2-0-Sixx posted the core beliefs of the black panthers and what motivated them to begin an uprising against the American government. But as noted in this thread, the BPP grew to over 5,000 members, many of which opposed whites helping them. Just as your "informed" opinion has lead you to believe that whites must have been wrong in their thinking that black panthers were racist, mine will say that many of the branches of the BPP were misinformed and illadvised of their duties, thus the beginning of opposition to white people helping the cause. Black KKK might be "bullshit", but black supremacy and racism was a reality.
The Klu Klux Klan justifies racism *exactly* the way you just did.
Hey, lets hang them ni&*$rs so we can reduce the crime rate.
My view is this: Everything Huey P. Newton created was a work of art, something I would have loved to be a part of, but I think that a lot of blacks got the wrong idea and joined the party for the wrong reasons. Trying to seperate whites from the movement was a big mistake because you're just going to make your enemy stronger. What they should have done is try to reach and recruit *more* white people. It's a tragedy what happened to this revolution -- probably the last revolution we will ever see, at least without widespread bloodshed.
They did far more good then wrong, no doubt about that. There is a *GREAT DEAL* to learn from their work, worthy of a book to be written. Not about what happened, but about the mental aspects of every African American involved, ESPECIALLY those who started it. How much did one man have to endure to lead/begin a revolution of this magnitude? Much more then any of us, thats for sure.
Wow you summed up that conclusion from only two sentences at the very end of my post? Sorry guy, but thats a negative. I don't feel wronged at all, and I am not angry with them for rejecting whites, if anything I am filled with deep sorrow and regret. I simply pointed out that it was a mistake and had something to do with why the party was destroyed.
Lets fight against desegregation, but no whites allowed. Bwahahahaha~!@
Okay, it wasn't just desegregation, but think about that for a moment.
1. EDJ read deeply into that. Nothing further.
2. They are/were allowed.. and so they did. It's a good thing your not leading any armies, because they would likely all kill themselves. It's the same with Hitler, if he would have used the jews to fight his war instead of killing them, he would have taken over Europe and Asia. It is the art of war. Just like dude said, the (white) government used *blacks* to infiltrate the Black Panther Party and it was a success. Do you think the leaders who were killed (assassinated) posted signs out front saying "Huey P. Newton inside"...no, there were certainly informants, and many of them. This is just one example of why whites should have been a part of the movement. Another would be that, white people have a much better influence over other white people as opposed to a raging black man walking the street gun at hand. Another reason is, they could have built an actual army that could contend with it's enemy. There are plenty of reasons Mr. Devil, you just have to use your brain. Another reason:
You think that kid you didn't pick on your kickball team doesn't resent you?
We're looking back at a failed attempt, and your content? Something needed to be changed, I pointed out one aspect, you accused me of some shit.
Wow you summed up that conclusion from only two sentences at the very end of my post? Sorry guy, but thats a negative. I don't feel wronged at all, and I am not angry with them for rejecting whites, if anything I am filled with deep sorrow and regret. I simply pointed out that it was a mistake and had something to do with why the party was destroyed.
Lets fight against desegregation, but no whites allowed. Bwahahahaha~!@
Okay, it wasn't just desegregation, but think about that for a moment.
1. EDJ read deeply into that. Nothing further.
2. They are/were allowed.. and so they did. It's a good thing your not leading any armies, because they would likely all kill themselves. It's the same with Hitler, if he would have used the jews to fight his war instead of killing them, he would have taken over Europe and Asia. It is the art of war. Just like dude said, the (white) government used *blacks* to infiltrate the Black Panther Party and it was a success. Do you think the leaders who were killed (assassinated) posted signs out front saying "Huey P. Newton inside"...no, there were certainly informants, and many of them. This is just one example of why whites should have been a part of the movement. Another would be that, white people have a much better influence over other white people as opposed to a raging black man walking the street gun at hand. Another reason is, they could have built an actual army that could contend with it's enemy. There are plenty of reasons Mr. Devil, you just have to use your brain. Another reason:
You think that kid you didn't pick on your kickball team doesn't resent you?
We're looking back at a failed attempt, and your content? Something needed to be changed, I pointed out one aspect, you accused me of some shit.
Ok, I have problems with this statement. Were they or were they not fighting for civil rights? Were there or were there not innocent black panthers murdered by the FBI/CIA?
Nitro, what is wrong with having an all black party? They did work with other races, remember that. Also, remember that it was the blacks who were treated unequally, not the whites. The Panthers and Malcolm believed that in order for change, there must be unity within the black race, which is absolutely 100% true.
I’m sure that’s not the way all panthers operated but that does not mean that the views of the few represent the entire group. There were thousands of Panthers, I’m sure some of them had racist views, but in all honesty, it was justified in that time period.
….
Why? Why recruit white people? As I stated, they worked with other groups including whites. Why would a black party need white members? What is wrong with trying to unify the oppressed?
The BPP believed that in order for them to be free (equal) they needed to unify first. What’s wrong with that belief?
Nitro, what is wrong with having an all black party? They did work with other races, remember that. Also, remember that it was the blacks who were treated unequally, not the whites. The Panthers and Malcolm believed that in order for change, there must be unity within the black race, which is absolutely 100% true.
I’m sure that’s not the way all panthers operated but that does not mean that the views of the few represent the entire group. There were thousands of Panthers, I’m sure some of them had racist views, but in all honesty, it was justified in that time period.
….
Why? Why recruit white people? As I stated, they worked with other groups including whites. Why would a black party need white members? What is wrong with trying to unify the oppressed?
The BPP believed that in order for them to be free (equal) they needed to unify first. What’s wrong with that belief?
You're right on both accounts, but you have yet to address your problem with my comment.
Did you have a "problem" with this comment:
Why is it that everyone skipped over this? If you didn't have a problem with it, then you need not worry so much over what I had to say on the subject.
Nothing..
I never said they didn't..
No one said anything about whites being treated unequally, and the latter part of your statement is true as well, I never said otherwise..
Racism is never justified, especially when it is explicitly what you are fighting against. We have a word for people who do not practice what they preach.
To better the chances of the revolution actually prevailing.
Is this the same as asking why a white society would need black people.. or is this completely different. They don't *need* white people, I pointed out what I thought was a mistake, get over it.
Nothing..
Nothing..
You've steered this discussion off the road, and presented questions in a way that I can only look and wonder if it was my post that you are questioning. I never said "fuck them" for not letting in whites, or that it *had* to be done. The revolution failed, and it is easy to look back and find ways that would have made it more successful, and that is what I did. I am all for the BPP and it's revolution. You asked "why nthis" and "why that" but in the post before yours, I gave at least 4 reasons why.
That can not be proven wrong.
Did you have a "problem" with this comment:
Why is it that everyone skipped over this? If you didn't have a problem with it, then you need not worry so much over what I had to say on the subject.
Nothing..
I never said they didn't..
No one said anything about whites being treated unequally, and the latter part of your statement is true as well, I never said otherwise..
Racism is never justified, especially when it is explicitly what you are fighting against. We have a word for people who do not practice what they preach.
To better the chances of the revolution actually prevailing.
Is this the same as asking why a white society would need black people.. or is this completely different. They don't *need* white people, I pointed out what I thought was a mistake, get over it.
Nothing..
Nothing..
You've steered this discussion off the road, and presented questions in a way that I can only look and wonder if it was my post that you are questioning. I never said "fuck them" for not letting in whites, or that it *had* to be done. The revolution failed, and it is easy to look back and find ways that would have made it more successful, and that is what I did. I am all for the BPP and it's revolution. You asked "why nthis" and "why that" but in the post before yours, I gave at least 4 reasons why.
That can not be proven wrong.
I did not see this comment until now.
First off, I would like to see solid evidence of these accusations.
2nd, it appears jazzfans grandfather was the one that fed this information to him, which also appears his grandfather was snitch working for the Oakland PD. We all know the Oakland PD had a lot of problems in the 60’s.
3rd, any extortion activities by any members of the Panthers were not acceptable to the Panthers as a group, especially if it was from other Black, minority citizens or the oppressed.
Rule # 8:
No party member will commit any crimes against other party members or black people at all, and cannot steal or take from the people, not even a needle or a piece of thread.
From the 8 points of attention:
2. Pay fairly for what you buy.
3. Return everything you borrow.
4. Pay for anything you damage.
From the Rules of Discipline:
2. Do not take a single needle or piece of thread from the poor and oppressed masses.
If any extortion acts were committed against bullshit companies/organizations, capitalist pigs etc. and had permission by the BPP then they would be totally justifiable and absolutely accepted.
You’re right, racism is never completely justified, and I should have worded my response in a different way.
The BPP were against all forms of racism; this has been demonstrated in their writings, teachings and social and political ties to other races.
The small number of BPP who did have racist views did not represent the group as a whole and I’m sure either did not read the material and study as they were told to, or were involved in weak branches of the BPP whose leaders did not teach properly/efficiently.
Listen comrade, it’s nothing like saying a white society needs blacks or whatever. All of these Black groups in the 60’s were absolutely necessary. As Malcolm X, the BPP and many others said, they needed unity. If you read the teachings of the BPP you will clearly see that they were about unification of the oppressed people, in specific black Americans. They were also about doing things themselves. Not because they didn’t want help from whites, but because they wanted to do things on their own without other people taking credit for their accomplishments or people assuming it was only accomplished because of the help of ‘so and so’.
Carmichael states that, “If we are to proceed toward true liberation, we must cut ourselves off from white people.... [otherwise] we will find ourselves entwined in the tentacles of the white power complex that controls this country." If you go deeper into this the reasoning behind it, “The myth that the Negro is somehow incapable of liberating himself, is lazy, etc”
What’s the point in saying this? I simply asked questions about your statements. That’s what were here for; debate, discussions, knowledge etc.
Well, I can say you steered my thread off road.
Never said you did.
The way I’ve been looking at is that they were a huge success in the way they altered the minds of many and by fighting for what they believed in. That’s what’s important to me.
The revolution failed because of COINTELPRO.
There are many things they could have done better, I agree.
First off, I would like to see solid evidence of these accusations.
2nd, it appears jazzfans grandfather was the one that fed this information to him, which also appears his grandfather was snitch working for the Oakland PD. We all know the Oakland PD had a lot of problems in the 60’s.
3rd, any extortion activities by any members of the Panthers were not acceptable to the Panthers as a group, especially if it was from other Black, minority citizens or the oppressed.
Rule # 8:
No party member will commit any crimes against other party members or black people at all, and cannot steal or take from the people, not even a needle or a piece of thread.
From the 8 points of attention:
2. Pay fairly for what you buy.
3. Return everything you borrow.
4. Pay for anything you damage.
From the Rules of Discipline:
2. Do not take a single needle or piece of thread from the poor and oppressed masses.
If any extortion acts were committed against bullshit companies/organizations, capitalist pigs etc. and had permission by the BPP then they would be totally justifiable and absolutely accepted.
You’re right, racism is never completely justified, and I should have worded my response in a different way.
The BPP were against all forms of racism; this has been demonstrated in their writings, teachings and social and political ties to other races.
The small number of BPP who did have racist views did not represent the group as a whole and I’m sure either did not read the material and study as they were told to, or were involved in weak branches of the BPP whose leaders did not teach properly/efficiently.
Listen comrade, it’s nothing like saying a white society needs blacks or whatever. All of these Black groups in the 60’s were absolutely necessary. As Malcolm X, the BPP and many others said, they needed unity. If you read the teachings of the BPP you will clearly see that they were about unification of the oppressed people, in specific black Americans. They were also about doing things themselves. Not because they didn’t want help from whites, but because they wanted to do things on their own without other people taking credit for their accomplishments or people assuming it was only accomplished because of the help of ‘so and so’.
Carmichael states that, “If we are to proceed toward true liberation, we must cut ourselves off from white people.... [otherwise] we will find ourselves entwined in the tentacles of the white power complex that controls this country." If you go deeper into this the reasoning behind it, “The myth that the Negro is somehow incapable of liberating himself, is lazy, etc”
What’s the point in saying this? I simply asked questions about your statements. That’s what were here for; debate, discussions, knowledge etc.
Well, I can say you steered my thread off road.
Never said you did.
The way I’ve been looking at is that they were a huge success in the way they altered the minds of many and by fighting for what they believed in. That’s what’s important to me.
The revolution failed because of COINTELPRO.
There are many things they could have done better, I agree.
Does the Oakland P.D. not also have a set of rules (much larger and more complex) that they alledge to obide by? I understand and acknowledge the presence of these (BPP) rules, but how well do we know that they were enforced or diligently practiced during the uprising?
1. How would it be justifiable?
2. How well does this exemplify their obediance to their own set of rules?
I do not disagree with any of this..
Isn't this an act of selfishness? What is more important here, fixing the problems that plague the African American race, or the credit for doing so? If I wanted to help my brothers up from the gutter, I would give my life to do so, and not worry about people knowing I did it. As long as my brothers know that I showed my love in this manner, and they indeed did rise from the gutter, then I will rest in piece.
I don't deny that they tried to justify desegregating the party.
Because you asked the same question more then once, neither of which I felt had anything to do with what I said.
Huge success.. Answer me one honest question, 2-0-Sixx. Have you been to Oakland in the past 5 years?
And who is it, that sits at the head of every source used by COINTELPRO? Answer: White people.
And you guys can't seem to understand *why* they needed white people?
1. How would it be justifiable?
2. How well does this exemplify their obediance to their own set of rules?
I do not disagree with any of this..
Isn't this an act of selfishness? What is more important here, fixing the problems that plague the African American race, or the credit for doing so? If I wanted to help my brothers up from the gutter, I would give my life to do so, and not worry about people knowing I did it. As long as my brothers know that I showed my love in this manner, and they indeed did rise from the gutter, then I will rest in piece.
I don't deny that they tried to justify desegregating the party.
Because you asked the same question more then once, neither of which I felt had anything to do with what I said.
Huge success.. Answer me one honest question, 2-0-Sixx. Have you been to Oakland in the past 5 years?
And who is it, that sits at the head of every source used by COINTELPRO? Answer: White people.
And you guys can't seem to understand *why* they needed white people?