Important American History (Black Panthers)

[JazzFan]

I did not see this comment until now.

First off, I would like to see solid evidence of these accusations.

2nd, it appears jazzfans grandfather was the one that fed this information to him, which also appears his grandfather was snitch working for the Oakland PD. We all know the Oakland PD had a lot of problems in the 60’s.

He was an Oakland Police officer placed undercover in the Panthers based on his relationship with Huey. He wasnt a snitch but a cop. I dont know what kind of evidence you expect all I can tell you is what has been told to me by my grandfather who was there. As for links and documents I have none.


I can tell you that those rules you posted were not followed to well by the panthers as like I said, they robbed and extorted money from people.
I've met several people who knew Huey and have views that do not paint him as a "Brilliant" person. He was into drugs even back then and those who knew him have used terms such as crazy to describe him. Alot of people know the truth about Huey and it makes me laugh when things happen where I'll say something like I said in my first post and someone else will say yeah I heard that too, my father knew huey and said similar things about him. I had that happen in high school during a discussion with a visiting black panther and a classmate said similar things to what I had said as told to him by his father.

My grandfather told me of a time where the some of the Panthers almost got into trouble with Bill Graham as they wanted him to let them stage a rally for the "cause" for free when Bill said Fuck YOU they tried to make threats and his security kick them all out.

I'll talk with my grandfather and see what other stuff he can tell me.

 

[Ethereal]

Nitro you're so caught up in the wave of your own self-righteous "mighty white wind" that you can't see the real issues.

Racially selfrighteous, maybe. But what the hell is a "mighty white wind"? I think if anything, it is opening up (in my eyes) more undiscussed issues, aside from those that are in plain sight, the only ones you choose to acknowledge. I dig real deep into shit, and I could care less what people think about me for doing it.

How is such it a grievous, sad, horrible thing that the BPP didn't recruit white people?

It isn't, as I stated seven thousand times.

Who gives two shits?

You do obviously, seeing as how I fully explained in great detail why I even brought up the issue of whites being rejected by the BPP minister, and yet you're still here. You somehow missed it, several times over, and still pose the same question. So for the sake of any more waisted posts and bandwidth, how about we either stop talking about this same issue/question, or read the answers in my previous posts.

 

[JazzFan]

@ 206

Extortion acts and robbery were commited against local mom and pops shops by the panthers to donate to the "Cause" sort of like a gang using some bullshit excuse to rob and steal from people and carry guns in public.

 

[2-0-Sixx]

1). Your grandpa was a police officer.
He was a COP. What do you think his bosses were telling him about the BPP? The Black Panthers were viewed as the enemy to the police and of America. ALL revolutionary groups during that time period were viewed as threats. Police, FBI, CIA etc. their jobs were to find ANY dirt or CREATE dirt to discredit these parties and DESTROY them. This is a fact; known to the public thanks the Freedom of Information Act.

2). Your grandpa was a snitch, plain and simple (not trying to insult you). He joined the police probably thinking he would do some good for his country, instead he was involved on snitching on a group of people who were fighting for civil rights and trying to change this country.

Extortion acts and robbery were commited against local mom and pops shops by the panthers to donate to the "Cause" sort of like a gang using some bullshit excuse to rob and steal from people and carry guns in public.

Got evidence, documents by credible sources etc? Or is this coming from your grandpa and other ex-cops?

 

[2-0-Sixx]

Does the Oakland P.D. not also have a set of rules (much larger and more complex) that they alledge to obide by? I understand and acknowledge the presence of these (BPP) rules, but how well do we know that they were enforced or diligently practiced during the uprising?

I'm sure they did, but it's a lot different when the police chief, fbi, cia etc. are instructing the police to brake the law. Come on Nitro, the Oakland PD in the 60's? I'm sure it's changed since then, but you got to admit they were pretty fucking currupt back then.

1. How would it be justifiable?

How is it not justifiable? Stealing from the rich, the scandelous, their enemies etc. is not justifiable?

[/quote]2. How well does this exemplify their obediance to their own set of rules?[/quote]

Because their rules cleary state not to steal from the oppressed, no where does it say anything about stealing from the wealthy.

Isn't this an act of selfishness? What is more important here, fixing the problems that plague the African American race, or the credit for doing so? If I wanted to help my brothers up from the gutter, I would give my life to do so, and not worry about people knowing I did it. As long as my brothers know that I showed my love in this manner, and they indeed did rise from the gutter, then I will rest in piece.

I wouldn't say it's in act of selfishness, I would say it's more about pride. You're right, it is important to help others etc, but their mentallity that they needed to unite themselves first, once this is accomplished then they can continue moving forward.

Huge success.. Answer me one honest question, 2-0-Sixx. Have you been to Oakland in the past 5 years?

No, I have never been to Oakland, but I understand your point.

 

[WHITE DEVIL]

My pops is from Oakland he saw some of that shit first hand. Him and homeboys motorcycle broke down once in front of the BPP chapter in Hunters Point. Dudes came out with guns loaded and walked onto the sidewalk about 5 feet away from them just muggin....

 

[Ethereal]

I'm sure they did, but it's a lot different when the police chief, fbi, cia etc. are instructing the police to brake the law. Come on Nitro, the Oakland PD in the 60's? I'm sure it's changed since then, but you got to admit they were pretty fucking currupt back then.

I would imagine so. You know why COINTELPRO worked so well... Because authorities had the right to void certain constitutional rights given to peoples who are of threat to society or the government. Now take into consideration three main factors, (1) black people (2) uniting (3) with heavy artilary. Now with these counteri-intelligence programs, they could exploit these three aspects to the people through media outlets, win the people over, strip the BPP of their constitutional rights, dismantle them, and not a single person would think it was a criminal act. In fact, the people would probably applaud it. These are the type of measures I think the BPP should have considered.

How is it not justifiable? Stealing from the rich, the scandelous, their enemies etc. is not justifiable?

Stealing from the rich is not justifiable (well from a communist standpoint it might always be); stealing in general is scandelous; now the enemies on the other hand, I won't object to that, but in this case it is difficult to know who your enemy is.

Because their rules cleary state not to steal from the oppressed, no where does it say anything about stealing from the wealthy.

Rule #8 says nothing about poor or opressed people, it explicitly states "..and cannot steal or take from the people, not even a needle or a piece of thread."

I wouldn't say it's in act of selfishness, I would say it's more about pride. You're right, it is important to help others etc, but their mentallity that they needed to unite themselves first, once this is accomplished then they can continue moving forward.

I understand, but if it meant that much, to liberate "your people", wouldn't you do *anything* you could to accomidate these goals?

By the way, in my PolySci class, we have to do a presentation on Government, today I just changed my topic from Skull & Bones to the Black Panther Party. Could you PM me or just post the source for everything you posted, because it is a perfect layout for my presentation. Thanks..

 

[2-0-Sixx]

The entire article, including the links, can be found HERE. The only parts that are not on this link are some of the pictures and the audio, which you can right click and "properties" to find the sources.

Stealing from the rich is not justifiable (well from a communist standpoint it might always be); stealing in general is scandelous; now the enemies on the other hand, I won't object to that, but in this case it is difficult to know who your enemy is.

Well, I am a Marxist and so were the Panthers. Completely justifiable in my mind.

Rule #8 says nothing about poor or opressed people, it explicitly states "..and cannot steal or take from the people, not even a needle or a piece of thread."

Well, technically it says, "No party member will commit any crimes against other party members or black people at all, and cannot steal or take from the people, not even a needle or a piece of thread.

We may have different interpretations, but my view is that “the people” does not mean all people.

I understand, but if it meant that much, to liberate "your people", wouldn't you do *anything* you could to accomidate these goals?

I'm not sure Nitro. I understand what you're saying, and also I understand their views. I don't know if it would have been better during that time period.

 

[JazzFan]

Got evidence, documents by credible sources etc? Or is this coming from your grandpa and other ex-cops?

Coming straight from my grandfather who was there live and in living color. Huey was not the person he is made out to be and nor were the Panthers. Just look at how he died......

 

[The Duke of Earl]

your grandfarther was a pig & snitch

 

[Ethereal]

Without pigs and snitches this country would be in chaos.

 

[JazzFan]

You guys really need to chill with this whole "pig" shit and realize that cops are just like you, human beings with familes and are just trying to survive like the next man.
Dont even try to front like you are billy badasses that dont run to the cops when you are in trouble. Police like anything has its good apples with the bad. You take em as they come and hopefully are intelligent enough to know how to deal with them.

@ Wino you are ignorant.

 

[2-0-Sixx]

lol@running to the cops! I've NEVER in my life called the cops for anything.

Listen, I never said all cops are bad or whatever. I just think cops who work under cover and snitch on civil rights groups, are well, snitches. Confused, ignorant, working for the wrong side snitches.

And listen man, I understand it's your grandpa and everything and I really don't want to offend you, but I don't know how else I can put it. I'd feel the same way if it was anyone else, including one of my own family members.

 

[Ethereal]

but I don't know how else I can put it.

You could have called him a tattle tell, asshole.

 

[JazzFan]

I understand that you think that the Panthers were on some righteous trip and som people actually bought in to the Panther cause and wanted real changes. But I'm telling you that the Oakland chapter had shady shit going on it. Huey is not a hero but rather the crackhead he was later discovered to be that is the real Huey P Newton. FBI, CIA, Etc etc did not make the man start using dope he did it to himself.

I give the panther props for the breakfast program but that was also started with an agenda behind it, coloring books depicting killing of cops.

 

[MeloTrauma]

Look, gramps was a cop, so fuck his point of view. Im sorry, but when was the last time anybody could trust a cop?

Learn about Cointelpro... official FBI documents that were leaked to the news media in 71' said that Cointelpro was created to nuetralize anti-government groups in the US by means of infiltration, psychological warfare, false arrests, wrongful imprisionments, violence and outright assassinations... so fuck what anybody says against the Black Panthers, they stood up for thier people in the face of all that adversity, but were ultimatley destroyed... even though Cointelpro was exposed, covert action was still allowed to take place on a more "selective basis"

Read about that shit, its all real.

 

[2-0-Sixx]

You could have called him a tattle tell, asshole.

[email protected] comrade, "tattle tell" never once crossed my mind. Snitch was the only word that entered my mind.

Learn about Cointelpro... official FBI documents that were leaked to the news media in 71' said that Cointelpro was created to nuetralize anti-government groups in the US by means of infiltration, psychological warfare, false arrests, wrongful imprisionments, violence and outright assassinations... so fuck what anybody says against the Black Panthers, they stood up for thier people in the face of all that adversity, but were ultimatley destroyed... even though Cointelpro was exposed, covert action was still allowed to take place on a more "selective basis"

@Jazzfan,

I'm aware of Huey's drug problems. Let me ask you this, if the Oakland Panther chapter was doing shady shit, what were their motives? Were they or were they not using these "shady" activities to benefit the BPP and it's cause?

 

[The Duke of Earl]

COINTELPRO HAS ALSO AIDED WHITE SUPERMECY GROUPS , THEY WATCHED THE "BLACK POWER" MOVEMENTS AND "CHICANO POWER" MOVEMENTS WHICH ALSO INCULEDED MARTIN LUTHER KING , ANYTIME YOU HAVE SOMEONE MAKING NOISE AND WANTING OR CAUSING CHANGE IT PISSES OFF THE PEOPLE ON CHARGE THEY DON'T WANT CHANGE .........


"THEY DONT GIVE A FUCK ABOUT US !" - TUPAC

 

[2-0-Sixx]

@Nitro,

Well, I learned something today...the BPP actually DID ALLOW white members.

Earlier I watched "The Murder of Fred Hampton", which is a documentary from 1971, and in this video, which mainly contains speeches by Fred, I saw many white members not only in attendance at rallies but also actively working at the BPP headquarters.

Fred Hampton also mentioned numerous times throughout the video how they are against racism and that racism is merely a product of capitalism and any person of any color or background who has revolution on their minds may become a member.

Thought you'd like to know this and I'm sure now you can reevaluate your previous stance.

 

[FunK-3-FivE]

crazy shit man but good, no one is ever taught the history of black panthers, u never hear about it, glad u showed us a taste