Homosexuality: Mental Illness or God's creation?

[MEXCOM]

"==
@mexican commando...tell me WTF spelling has to do with this shit!?!?!?....i HARDLY ever proofread my shit....u get what im sayin..thats the point..dont try and belittle me by assuming i cant spell homie...ur on sum stupid shit on that subject...and then u try and come with the intelligent talk...LOL!!!!....makes u look like more of an asshole...LOL!!!...and to try to assume for ONE SECOND im not educated is slippin homie..stay on ur toes..

on the IMPORTANT issue...my stance/backup or "inane dribble" was posted like 2-3 times after my response on ur qoute...SO THEREFORE I DID FOLLOW UP....u lookin at the same message board as i am?...

Calling the kettle black? You belittled my post hence my doing so to yours. I may be an asshole but at the very least I've no need to fill my post with attacks at the others stance on the subject, at least not until you began to do that to me. Secondly I never assumed you weren't educated, you assumed that I assumed you were. If you would like to prove me wrong please point out where I assumed your lack of education. And lastly I wouldn't consider that assumption [the one you blamed me of making] as slippin.

Also if you're not going to directly direct a responce to me I have no need to read anything as I wouldnt know it was directed at me in the first place, even if it's redundant you should still let me know you posted this or that. This thread is old. If I even bothered to look at it it's because I was bored. Next time you wish to adress me and the points I made do so, if not then don't expect me to read all the responces. Some times I may and others I may not, but since I'm on the subject I will adress this stance of yours:

Today I read an article about Bisexuality. In this article it talks about bisexuals being outcasted by heterosexuals because they don't conform BUT it also mentions how gays have also shunned bisexuals. Bisexuals interviewed have expressed that they choose who they wish to have sex with and believe that this is what alienates them from homosexuals, the whole "they are a enjoying both sides of the spectrum without the backlash" thing. The thing is that bisexuals, like gays, say they do not choose who they fall in love with it: that they have no choice who they fall in love with. But they still choose who they have sex with. As a heterosexual I may fall in love with Girl A or Girl B [and not be able to control it] but I still choose who I fuck. The fact that a man can love another man in a platonic way doesn't make him homosexual but once he fucks him that would be considered a homosexual act. love is not sexual, sex is. Choosing whom to fuck is a choice straight people have, gay people have, and bisexual people have.

 

[Mean Mugg]

Fuck what the bible says, god changed his mind and created gay births in order to control the over-populated human population. Time has changed, so has god, move the fuck on. The bible has not been updated in thousands of years how do you know god didn't change his mind? :lick:

 

[n9newunsixx5150]

One may not feel that they chose to be homo or heterosexual. It is a matter of conditioning. There may be something in the biology that also influences one's preference for who they feel the desire to rub their genitals on, but the fact is, as humans, we have the capacity to renounce sexuality. It is just like this, a crackhead only needs crack because he/she has formed an addiction. Sexual indulgence is sexual indulgence, it does not matter if it is homo or hetero. Ideally people should grow past being so indulged and focus on more important things where sex is meant primarily for starting a family.

 

[EDJ]

AgENT 707,

YOU STRESSED, ""gay game"..."fags lace you"...LOL!...anyway...thats cool mayne...we all have our opinions. its all good...u came at me correct so i respect ur views/ideas...its good we have these discussions

IT SHO IS CAUSE A LOT gOT IT TWISTED, gOIN' WITH THE FLOW OF TODAYS SOCIETY. FOLOOWIN' TRENDS OR WHAT NOT.

MEAN MUg,

YOU STRESSED, "Fuck what the bible says, god changed his mind and created gay births in order to control the over-populated human population."

WHERE YOU gET THAT LIE FROM?

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Time has changed, so has god, move the fuck on. The bible has not been updated in thousands of years how do you know god didn't change his mind?"

(gOD) DON'T CHANgE HIS MIND. YOU NEED TO READ THE BIBLE BEFORE YOU START TALKIN' ABOUT IT AND ATTEMPTIN' TO PUT YOUR OWN FLAWED PHILOSOPHY BEHIND IT.

 

[miggidy]

It doesn't make as much sense to me. Here are just some of my thoughts:

Mental Illnesses are unavoidable to those whom it affects. It is often caused by ones life expierences such as parenting and traumatisation.

If nature created all that which caused someone to develope a mental illness, is this mental illness not in turn natural?

If one who has a mental illness has no control over this illness, then how can we argue that it is unnatural?

I think when discussing naturality, cause and effect play a significant role. If I take fire and burn your hand, on the surface it may seem unnatural that such an occurance took place, because I forced this action conciously, knowing full well of the consequences. But if you look deeper, from your prospective, it is natural that it happened because you had no control in preventing this action. So could natuality be a phenomenon in which no authority has power over it's existance? If this is the case, then a person who becomes homosexual, if he is without choice, without any dictation, then how can we say it is unnatural? And furthermore, if he has not a choice, then how can we say it is abomination, and that God opposes him?

Shit I just realized that you responded.

I don't think any illness is a cause of nature.
We bring on these illnesses ourlselves.
Human genes have mutated through out our history, why?
Some will say it is nature, I disagree from a biblical stand point....
I think you have to take account what we do in life and what consequences do those actions bring.
Gene mutations can only be harming and no one truly knows how they affect us phycologically.

If you look at it from a biblical perspective, one cannot blame god for mental illness.
You have to understand free will. It is found in Genesis with the story of Adam and Eve.
Man was created to live eternally, but we chose to disobey God. And these actions brought death upon us.

miggidy, can God frown upon us for things that occur which we have absolutely no control over?

We view a tree as being a product of nature, thus being a natural occurance. But at some point in time, this tree was seeded, and if it weren't for this seed, there would be no tree. So nothing just naturally occurs, somewhere along the scale of time, cause has taken it's course, and the effects are what we take in with our senses. A mental Illness too it triggered; cause and affect. Maybe the father molested the boy (cause), and the boy grew up lusting over other men (affect). A seed was planted, and there grew a tree.

The answer is no....
There is a passage in the book of Matthew were Jesus says that who ever causes children to sin will pay serious consequences. Why children? Becuase they can easily be manupilated.
They are innocent, so God shows mercy here.
Why not show mercy to those with mental illness? They are innocent as well....

This is a subjective question, and you'll get different answers depending on whom you ask.
But I'll make one thing clear, God is just....
Jesus warned those who know Him that He will be less merciful to them then He'll be to those who never knew Him....

I hope that helps....

 

[Ethereal]

miggidy: I want you to understand that I am not just another jack trying to point out "contradictions" in the Bible. I understand that many things are lost in translation, misinterpreted, or reinterpreted for that matter. I am just trying to understand the virtue of those who wrote the scriptures, and thus, the nature of the Holy Bible. Are they flawed just like you and I? Are they liable to make mistakes even when writing the word of God? I'm not asking you to answer these questions, but just understand them as they are what drives me to ask questions such as the one in this topic.

If you look at it from a biblical perspective, one cannot blame god for mental illness. You have to understand free will. It is found in Genesis with the story of Adam and Eve.
Man was created to live eternally, but we chose to disobey God. And these actions brought death upon us.

But also, one cannot blame himself, and in light of this, I question homosexuality being abomination, if it is not out of free will. Thus I question the context of the Bible, and with what credibility it serves as the "word of God".

There is a passage in the book of Matthew were Jesus says that who ever causes children to sin will pay serious consequences. Why children? Becuase they can easily be manupilated. They are innocent, so God shows mercy here. Why not show mercy to those with mental illness? They are innocent as well....

But here's the thing, and this is why I equated homosexuality being "natural" into this discussion. You said that one can not be blamed for things he has no power over, which I completely agree with. Now I will ask you: How can we blame the parents if they know not of what they do? Can you imagine any parent trying to make their child homosexual? Is Jane damned because she bought her son Bobby a barbie doll? I think one must understand what he or she is doing, know of the consequences, and proceed with the actions in order to be blamed for them.

Point: There is never a place of blame when it comes to homosexuality. The homosexual did not choose it, the parents did not want it, so I am confused as to how we are to interpret a message in the Bible, one that has empowered American masses to reject such a life style, when it says that homosexuality is abomination.

This is a subjective question, and you'll get different answers depending on whom you ask.But I'll make one thing clear, God is just....
Jesus warned those who know Him that He will be less merciful to them then He'll be to those who never knew Him.... I hope that helps....

So let me ask you:

1. How do you think God looks at homosexuality as it exists as a mental illness?

2. Does it make any difference if one is infected with this illness that they act on their desires?

The previous answer you gave, that God is "just", answers both of these questions (rather delicatley), but I'm wondering if you have any other thoughts regarding them.

 

[miggidy]

Hmmm....

Where some see contradictions, I see misconseptions.
The bible was never meant to be an official "God's Word" book.
The bible is just a compilation of God inspired scriptures.
I believe the Qu'ran is the only book that claims to be written by God himself (written by Mohammed by way of the angel Gabriel). Point I'm tryin to make is that even though the bible was not meant to be a book, the scriptures all fall in place to paint a complete picture. One picture without contradictions....

Jesus showed a soft spot for physically and mentally ill people, unlike everyone else during his time and today. He helped those who needed help the most, even Marry Magdalen (the prostitute).
Now I don't know if you're familiar with her story but he helped her when she was about to be stoned to death. Jesus forgave her sins, but people forget there was a condition to this. He told her not to do it again.... I believe (and this is a personal belief) that everyone is given a second chance in life to turn away from sin and take the righteous path. Of coarse there is children who die before this so they are dismissed and mentally ill people are exempted as well. What is the common denominator between children and mentally ill people? They're conscious has not developed to the point where they can make a rational decision. You gotta read between the lines and go deeper when you read the scriptures. You have to understand the logic behind the stories written in it in order to reach this conclusion.

Now I know that there is fully conscious people out there who happen to be gay.
These people might be mentally ill for being born the way they are but they aren't like other mentally ill people who's conscious never matures.
These people might have been born gay, which they had no control over.
But that doesn't exempt them fom understanding that their condition goes against the nature of God and mother nature itself. Now I cannot really blame them for rejecting to embrace biblical idealogy when American society is telling them that it's ok to be the way they are.
I see society as the person who Jesus was refering to when he warned those who cause children to sin. Society is the stumbling rock in this sense, the stumbling rock that Jesus always talks about.
The biblical version of salvation says that only God can judge you. He will determine whether you were made to sin, whether you were enlightened with His Word, or you just simply chose to rebel and live against God's will. Only God knows what's really in your heart, there for only God knows whether your name will be etched in the book of life or not.

But I will make one thing clear.... Those (gay folks) who have been shown the Word of God and yet "choose" to go against it, they are rejecting God. Now you might say, but that isn't fair, these people have a mental illness and so on. Well what do you say about those who change? Those who turn away from it? If they can do it, so can the rest. It's all a matter of what path you decide, God's path or the path of man. Will you listen to God, or will you listen to man?
We all know man is corrupted, we all know that man is in love with the material things of the world. Man will always choose the the path of least resistance. This is all according to the scriptures. Understanding this will help people make the right decision.
We don't know how Marry Magdalen became a prostitute, but we learn from the prostitutes today that many come from fucked up lives. That they were dealt a bad hand and thus find themselves in hole they can't climb out of. But just because one was given a bad hand, it doesn't mean we should give up and embrace the worse.
You're still in the game, and you can still win.... So giving up is no excuse....

Then you have the cats who are gay by choice.... Don't shake your head, the shit is a fad now days. Specially with women.... But I think their fate is obvious so I won't dig into that other than to say that I personally feel most gay folks today are gay by choice....

Hope this answers both questions.
It's more complicated than a simple yes or no....

 

[Ethereal]

Where some see contradictions, I see misconseptions.
The bible was never meant to be an official "God's Word" book.
The bible is just a compilation of God inspired scriptures.
I believe the Qu'ran is the only book that claims to be written by God himself (written by Mohammed by way of the angel Gabriel). Point I'm tryin to make is that even though the bible was not meant to be a book, the scriptures all fall in place to paint a complete picture. One picture without contradictions....

I see contradictions and misconceptions in the Bible. I see misconceptions as people take scriptures in the Bible and misinterpret their meaning, this includes "hardcore" Christians. I see some contradictions, but just as you might believe, I do not see them being present in the Bible when it was originally written. My lack of faith is not in God or Jesus, but in the people who we rely on to carry on their messages. I think people are too naive when it comes to understanding the Bible as it is written today. I believe the Bible is based of factual historical accounts, with Jesus being crusified on the cross, moses, etc. But things have gotten twisted and scued over hundreds of years. Motive for this can be found in the pictures of Jesus you see in America.

Jesus showed a soft spot for physically and mentally ill people, unlike everyone else during his time and today. He helped those who needed help the most, even Marry Magdalen (the prostitute). Now I don't know if you're familiar with her story but he helped her when she was about to be stoned to death. Jesus forgave her sins, but people forget there was a condition to this. He told her not to do it again.... I believe (and this is a personal belief) that everyone is given a second chance in life to turn away from sin and take the righteous path. Of coarse there is children who die before this so they are dismissed and mentally ill people are exempted as well. What is the common denominator between children and mentally ill people? They're conscious has not developed to the point where they can make a rational decision. You gotta read between the lines and go deeper when you read the scriptures. You have to understand the logic behind the stories written in it in order to reach this conclusion.

Do you have any knowledge of who put the Bible together and some of the scriptures that were "left out"? My hummanities teacher told us the name of who he claimed put the scriptures of the Bible together, although I don't remember it, I do recall him mentioning that he was an emperor if that helps any. ALso do you know in what manner the Bible was written? Was it strictly observational from each point of view of those apostiles who wrote different scriptures, or do you believe they were literally writing through the hand of God?

Now I know that there is fully conscious people out there who happen to be gay.
These people might be mentally ill for being born the way they are but they aren't like other mentally ill people who's conscious never matures. These people might have been born gay, which they had no control over. But that doesn't exempt them fom understanding that their condition goes against the nature of God and mother nature itself. Now I cannot really blame them for rejecting to embrace biblical idealogy when American society is telling them that it's ok to be the way they are. I see society as the person who Jesus was refering to when he warned those who cause children to sin. Society is the stumbling rock in this sense, the stumbling rock that Jesus always talks about. The biblical version of salvation says that only God can judge you. He will determine whether you were made to sin, whether you were enlightened with His Word, or you just simply chose to rebel and live against God's will. Only God knows what's really in your heart, there for only God knows whether your name will be etched in the book of life or not.

But I will make one thing clear.... Those (gay folks) who have been shown the Word of God and yet "choose" to go against it, they are rejecting God. Now you might say, but that isn't fair, these people have a mental illness and so on. Well what do you say about those who change? Those who turn away from it? If they can do it, so can the rest. It's all a matter of what path you decide, God's path or the path of man. Will you listen to God, or will you listen to man?
We all know man is corrupted, we all know that man is in love with the material things of the world. Man will always choose the the path of least resistance. This is all according to the scriptures. Understanding this will help people make the right decision. We don't know how Marry Magdalen became a prostitute, but we learn from the prostitutes today that many come from fucked up lives. That they were dealt a bad hand and thus find themselves in hole they can't climb out of. But just because one was given a bad hand, it doesn't mean we should give up and embrace the worse. You're still in the game, and you can still win.... So giving up is no excuse....

Thanks mig. I have one more question. You made mention of society, and those who cause children to sin. It stirs up a lot of questions in my head when I think about it. This is an extremely complex question that should be written in the form of a page or so, but I am going to try to keep it simplified.

****EVERYONE CAN ANSWER****​

If you have an opressed society, living under the tyrany of a ruler who causes all of his followers to sin, and all of his people to suffer, does this society have a rightous cause (in accordance with God's will) to revolt against their rule, even if it means breaking some of the commands from the Bible, such as obeying the laws of the land, thal shalt not kill, and so on; or should this society remain opressed if they are to receive God's blessing?

 

[miggidy]

Nitro,
look into the history of the scriptures.
Old Testament (Torah) scriptures date back to around 2000 years ago.
And since then, there have been many translations of them.
Thing is, most of these translations are pretty much the same.
I agree that Christians misinterpret the scriptures, for different reasons.
But I believe the scriptures are practically the same, from the time they were written until now.

Even the new testament stuff is pretty much the same. Again, there were different translations of it, but the main gospel books are pretty much the same.

I am more concerened with the apocryphal books that weren't canonized by the early church.
You should do some research in the canonization of the scriptures as there is lots to learn.
The early church set up a commiittee (for lack of a better word) to look over all the scriptures and determine which were God inspired. They filtered out a lot of "heretical" books that were floatin around those times. If anything, it is in this period where I personally feel there could've been human error.

"If you have an opressed society, living under the tyrany of a ruler who causes all of his followers to sin, and all of his people to suffer, does this society have a rightous cause (in accordance with God's will) to revolt against their rule, even if it means breaking some of the commands from the Bible, such as obeying the laws of the land, thal shalt not kill, and so on; or should this society remain opressed if they are to receive God's blessing?"

This actually isn't that tough to answer. One just needs to pick up the bible and read the gospels.
Look at what Jesus did? Look at the impact he had on the world. He changed it completely, yet He didn't raise a fist. It was the same with the apostles after His death and resurrection.
They defied the biggest empire of their time, and successfully changed their world.
Now look at history, Ghandi did the same thing for his people in India. So did Nelson Mandela, and Martin Luther King. They changed the world in a peaceful manner....
Some gave up their freedom in order to make this happen, others gave up their lives.
Peace can often be the best solution. It all starts with education....

 

[2-0-Sixx]

Next Thread:

RELIGION: MENTAL ILLNESS OR MAN'S CREATION?

 

[KnowNoGood]

Mental illness because God said "Adam and Eve" not "Adam and Joe" and "Eve and Laura."

 

[L Mac-a-docious]

Is that what god said? Wouldn't "mental illness" be one of gods little creations as well?

 

[EDJ]

^ILLNESS AND SICCNESS WAS NEVA (gOD)'S CREATION, BUT A REPERCUSSION OF ADAM'S SIN. KNOW ABOUT IT.

 

[EDJ]

NITRO YOU ASKED, ""If you have an opressed society, living under the tyrany of a ruler who causes all of his followers to sin, and all of his people to suffer, does this society have a rightous cause (in accordance with God's will) to revolt against their rule, even if it means breaking some of the commands from the Bible, such as obeying the laws of the land, thal shalt not kill, and so on; or should this society remain opressed if they are to receive God's blessing?""

IF YOU'RE REALLY (gOD)'S PEOPLE, THEN YOU ARE NOT PART OF THIS WORLD CAUSE THIS WORLD IS CORRUPT. THIS SYSTEM OF THANg'S IS UNDA CONTROL BY THE MAN OF LAWLESSNESS. THIS SYSTEM OF THANg'S IS ABOUT TO END. SO IF YOU REALLY ARE (gOD)'S PEOPLE, YOU ARE WAITIN' ON HIS PROMISE TO END ALL THIS ENIQUITY, AND FOR HIM TO SET UP HIS gOVERNMENT.

 

[CannibalCrow]

Being a homosexual isn't a mental illness or God's creation. It's a genetic trait that can be traced in some homosexual individuals back to very early parts of their lives. Even at a young age, they were different. It wasn't a choice. Maybe it was hard to understand at first, but it's most definitely not a mental illness. I am not religious at all, so maybe I am not addressing the question as intended, but I imagine it would be very difficult to go against your nature and try to be "normal". I mean, if you're assuming a gay man can easily take a wife and deny his nature, then it would be equally easy for you to take on a homosexual lover. Am I correct? As for gays who have "turned" back to the hetero ways, I suppose they simply had to force themselves for whatever reason they saw fit. That is their decision to force an alien way of life on themselves to fit a standard of conformity. Live and let live. Tolerance is key in a world where homophobia, racism and misogyny are still quite rampant.

 

[AGENT707]

Also if you're not going to directly direct a responce to me I have no need to read anything as I wouldnt know it was directed at me in the first place, even if it's redundant you should still let me know you posted this or that. This thread is old. If I even bothered to look at it it's because I was bored. Next time you wish to adress me and the points I made do so, if not then don't expect me to read all the responces. Some times I may and others I may not, but since I'm on the subject I will adress this stance of yours:

Today I read an article about Bisexuality. In this article it talks about bisexuals being outcasted by heterosexuals because they don't conform BUT it also mentions how gays have also shunned bisexuals. Bisexuals interviewed have expressed that they choose who they wish to have sex with and believe that this is what alienates them from homosexuals, the whole "they are a enjoying both sides of the spectrum without the backlash" thing. The thing is that bisexuals, like gays, say they do not choose who they fall in love with it: that they have no choice who they fall in love with. But they still choose who they have sex with. As a heterosexual I may fall in love with Girl A or Girl B [and not be able to control it] but I still choose who I fuck. The fact that a man can love another man in a platonic way doesn't make him homosexual but once he fucks him that would be considered a homosexual act. love is not sexual, sex is. Choosing whom to fuck is a choice straight people have, gay people have, and bisexual people have.[/QUOTE]

first of all, i dont care about addressing you, i dont care about you not reading posts,etc.etc.etc.

second, going off ONE article is HARDLY proof.

since ur stuck on the choice stance, i will say this. GAY people are choosing who to fuck just like me and you. the thing is, maybe its sumthing in the brain(whether it be genetic,chemicals,blah blah blah,etc.etc.etc.) thats making them "CHOOSE" the same sex.

havent you ever seen a younger kid and been like "that kid is gonna grow up gay, you just tell"....???

i guy i played baseball with (named cory) had a gay older brother. he also had a younger brother who is about 5-6 years younger than we were. he was probably about 12 or 13 at the time quite possbily younger. anyway my mom who sat in the stands would ALWAYS tell me the younger brother was gonna be just the oldest brother(the gay one). this kid just exuded feminie characteristcs, was always hangin on his mom, i mean i could on and on and on. so quite possbily two gay kids in one family?..two gay kids outta 3?...i dont know man...im leanin towards born that way...