Heresy - Sick Wid It - any pro producers......

[Cool Nutz]

@ Hersey

You can check out what we have done at the links below. I am no newcomer to this bro. My resume speaks for itself. Just check out the links below, and I'm sure you will see, that we aren't just out playing around in the music game. And if you are talking about the Federation that Ric Roc(producer) from Sac is a part of, you can ask Bootz about Cool Nutz. Internationally known and locally accepted. Holler at a playa.

 

[HERESY]

its all good

@ cool nutz/bob yep i will hit those links man.

yes its that ric roc and the last time i saw boots was when i came by the spot last monday. GOLDIE GOLD (anthony) is my NEPHEW.

hes the guy with the LONG beard they played the new federation tracks and i must say it KNOCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


goldie knows aaron has the hook up for him. 2 bad boots left sac.......

btw since we know some of the same people we should get down on something. you knwo of anyone with a pro tools rig????


get at me pimp.


:H:

 

[Cool Nutz]

@ Hersey

Holler at a playa, we can make something happen. I have Pro-Tools up here. We can definitely make some shit happen. Get at me.

 

[HERESY]

tadou i had a LOOOOOOOOOOONG post for you but i pressed the wrong button and it disappeared. tadou what you said is 100% INCORRECT.


:h:

 

[151]

@ hersey

I understand all of that. But would you want the engineer to take all the credit for your composition and your production? That is my simple point here. You are doing all the work, the engineer is simply there to facilitate your vision and make sure that it gets on the tape through the correct signal path. Does he get production credit for tracking your ideas and vision?


If you did the work, you deserve the credit. If you didn't you don't. It's as simple as that. If you enigineered, take engineering credit. If you actually had something to do with the production of the work, then you should get that credit as well.

couldnt've said it better myself playboy......there aint no way, if i created a music track on a keyboard,then wrote 3 verses and a hook and arranged it,and all the muthafuka on the mixin board did iz push record,and mix levels..then wanna put down that he produced it...thats more like comedy to me..but now,its a sucka born every minute so if some shithead allow it,then thats on him...

 

[151]

This is the question I asked D-Sane:


......- If I buy a beat from Bosko and he sends it to me, but I record the song up here.....did he produce the song? No. Would he get ANY production credits? No. Because all he did was write and play the music.....but had no hand in creating and overseeing the finished product.

- If I do a beat for you and send it to you, but you record the song at Bosko's.....did I produce the song? No. And I wouldn't expect any credits for something that I didn't do.

- If I have the London Symphony Orchestra come play the music.....did they produce the song? No. Even if they wrote the music? Nope

Now, how many of you would agree with an engineer taking your production credit? I wouldn't take production credit for D-Sane's track if all I did was engineer the session. I'm sure Dre, Bosko, and any other producer would be hot if the album came out and said it was produced by the enigineer of the session. This is my simple point. I fully understand the term producer, being that I have produced a number of albums from the ground up.

cmon now....that shit dont even make sense......example...mike mosely did a beat for c-bo new album,it waz then recorded at bosko house engineered by bosko,so dsane,are u sayin that bosko shoulda put his name on mike beat???????if so ,that aint how it works.....as far az my nigga skuntman,i cant call yallz sitiation in regards to all that...but plz make sense out this theory u got..if u can...and how u come up wit that?????4real

 

[Mr. D-Sane]

No mas........

#1. I wasn't trying to misrepresent shit. The meat and potatoes of our debate boils down to "who did the beat"......being that Cool Nutz told me "the person who had the most to do with the track musically is the producer." Well.....being that Skunt made the beat and "had the most to do with the track musically" then that would make him the producer according to YOUR definition. My definition differs.......GREATLY.

I have a great question for you.......why isn't the rapper/singer a producer? They contribute 50% of the song......how come only musicians/beat makers get production credits according to your definition?

#2. Cool Nutz needs to stop listening to what the little haters have to say about me.....in reference to the "D-Sane thinks he knows it all" comment. And don't think I don't know where you got that......people talk. By the way.......I DON'T think I know it all......I'll be the first to admit if I'm wrong. But I'm FAR from an idiot and am pretty educated.......more so than MOST of the people that I know........so "whateva."

#3. The debate is VERY simple. I have provided PROOF to back my claims. Catz around here are doing just like I said........goin' off some false info that has been goin' around for 10 years plus......that making beats makes you a "producer."

Why do you think that when catz are doing shit at home......doing rough drafts of songs.......it's called PRE-PRODUCTION? Shouldn't it just be plain old producing?

Let me break it down to simple logics for everyone. (and remind everybody that I DID go to college for this shit)

There are 2 processes involved in making a song.

1. THE CREATIVE PROCESS - This is where the music is written/beats are made and where the lyrics are written. This is called composing/songwriting. Nothing more.....nothing less.

2. THE RECORDING PROCESS - This is where you take your ideas & words that you scribbled on paper and music that you pounded out on your workstation to a studio. The process of recording it is called PRODUCING!!!! It has NOTHING to do with making the music/song writing.......it has to do with the song being pieced together and recorded on to tape, hard disk.....4 -track......whatever! Then it is tuned using eq, effects, filters, volume control and panning........which the producer decides what needs to be done and CAN tell the engineer (IF there is one) to make it happen if he so decides.

These 2 processes work hand in hand together to create a song.......but those hands belong to 2 different people......they ARE 2 totally different things! PRODUCING a song has nothing to do with the music! It has to do with the recording of that music and vocals to tape, hard disk or whatever your choice of system may be.....and creating a FINISHED PRODUCT using the various elements of the song....i.e. the beat and the vocals.

ENGINEERING is a part of the production process.......it can be done by the PRODUCER......or the job CAN BE delegated to somebody else. From my experience......an engineer is usually brought in to handle the technical shit when somebody is unfamiliar with the studio set-up.....or the studio doesn't want somebody fuckin' with their equipment. The engineer WORKS at the studio full time.....knows the ins and outs of everything and makes the production process run smoother. BUT........they still work for......(guess who??).......THE PRODUCER! The producer tells them what to do......tells Skunt to re-record his take because it was sloppy......tells the bitch in the back to sing louder........tells Jonny to turn his guitar down and decides how the song is going to sound!

I recorded our first FTS album at my college.....and I had an engineer! But who told that clown what to do? ME!!! I said....."hey....gimme some compression on those vocals.....and some reverb." And he got credit for engineering it.......but did he produce it? No. He didn't even co-produce it. Because I was running the show.

A "producer" doesn't even get involved UNTIL you hit the studio. Making beats is only 1 part of the process........it's incomplete.......it's only 1 ingredient of a song! Vocals are another ingredient........and the person who puts them all together in one place (a finished and recorded song) is the CHEF.......aka the PRODUCER. The producer controls the cooking time and flavor.....maybe add some pepper to it.....a dash of oregeno...get it?

That's like saying that Betty fuckin' Crocker baked me a cake because I bought her box of cake mix. That bitch didn't bake that shit.......I DID.......I PRODUCED A CAKE!

That's like saying that Home Depot built my house because I bought my wood and supplies from them.

If you make a 1,000 beats......but none of them ever get used for songs......are you still a producer? If so......what have you produced?

And this is where I'm gonna show the "technical" definition of what producing and a producer is according to the world acclaimed Cambridge Dictionary........not what I say.......or you say......the WORLDS defintion...........

produce (RECORDING)
verb
to be in charge of making (a musical recording) and to be responsible for the arrangement of the music, the combination of the different instruments or voices and the general sound of it

producer
noun
a record producer

production
noun
The production on a record is the preparation and general quality of its sound and shows the way in which the music was recorded rather than the quality of the singing and the music.

Example: George Martin did the production on the Beatles records.

BONUS QUESTION BOYS AND GIRLS: Does anybody know who George Martin is? He's only one of the greatest producers OF ALL TIME. He is the man responsible for producing the most popular group in the history of the god damn world! He actually did help to WRITE some of their songs......but not many. (To read his bio go here http://www.pcug.org.au/~jhenry/biography.html)

Dr. Dre: Producer. Always takes his production credits REGARDLESS of who made the beat. But people act so surprised when they find out that he didn't do some of them beats? Hmmmmm.....

This is a quote from Riq Roq.....a Bay Area producer who worked with 2pac and Deathrow.......who wrote an article for THIS website and it is available for reading on the main page. This is an excerpt from it........

A producer is not what you might think it is. A producer is a person who produces something, whether you had a pizza delivered to me or you hand flipped the dough and baked the shit yourself, if you got it to me, you are the producer. Now that I made that seemingly useless analogy let me go back. The cats that come in the studio and are successful are the one’s that are produced. This means someone was in charge and oversaw the project from concept to CD. This person took the vision and made it happen. For some this comes easy, for some it takes a lot of hard work and concentration. This person can be anyone from the person who made the beat to the rapper or singer, to someone who isn’t even on the song. In some instances the producer is the artist or group such as DJ Quick or Missie Elliot and sometimes artist hire outside "ears" to get it done. Digital recorded D’Angelo’s debut album and D’Angelo initiated most of the song writing and musicianship, but the record company hired Raphael Saadiq to produce it, to put a vision together. A skilled engineer was hired (Digital), so it would come out to perfection. To build a house, you need the right materials, labor, and plan. To make a record you need a "producer."

In particular........I want everyone to pay attention to the fact that it CLEARLY stated that RAPHAEL SAADIQ "produced" his album.........EVEN THOUGH.......D'Angelo wrote almost ALL of his own music. Why isn't D'Angelo the producer? Because he's just a fuckin' songwriter.......NOT a producer!

YOU AIN'T PRODUCED SHIT UNTIL THE SONG IS DONE.

If you make a beat and write a rap.......then stand on the street corner and perform it......have you produced it? No. Why not? It's a finished song ain't it? It's not "produced" until you record it on tracks.......and the person that does that is the producer. The producer CAN BE the person who made the beat.......it CAN BE the person who wrote the lyrics.

In my case........the artists I work with trust my opinions and judgment (being that I HAVE produced the best selling local artists in Seattle). I tell them how to rap their shit......if it needs to be done over......if it needs another track to thicken it up......all that shit. I CONTROL how the song sounds......not them. If they WANT it to sound a certain way.......that's fine.......then I interpret THEIR "vision" for them and try to make it a reality. I don't need anybody to tell me what a producer is......or an engineer......I learned it during 2 years of college from 96-98 at one of the best music programs in the state of Washington (an award winning program too I might add).

People write songs everyday........and shop them to publishers. Now......if they wrote the music and lyrics.....and somebody uses that song.......how come THEY don't get production credits? They "had the most to do with the song musically." They don't get shit but publishing and songwriter credits.......0% production credits........0.

And now......I will end this rediculous debate with my closing question........ If I record an accapella album with NO music.....whos' the "producer"??????? There must not be one since there's no music, huh?

Ladies and gentlemen......D-Sane has left the building! lol

 

[Mr. D-Sane]

so dsane,are u sayin that bosko shoulda put his name on mike beat???????if so ,that aint how it works.....as far az my nigga skuntman,i cant call yallz sitiation in regards to all that...but plz make sense out this theory u got..if u can...and how u come up wit that?????4real

Nope.......that's NOT what I'm saying at all bro. Mike Mosely should be gettin' composing/song writing/beat making credits. That's HIS music. But he didn't record the track.....so he shouldn't get production credits for something he didn't do. Mike has no idea how that beat was used other than C-Bo rapped to it. He had no input other than providing the beat.

Skunt was/is being given FULL credit for his beat......that's not the problem here. The problem here is what exactly a producer does.....aka the "definition." And all I'm saying is that you don't have to contribute to a track MUSICALLY to be the producer. Because there are thousands of producers out there that just record records.......but they all have their own style or sound.

When you hear a song I've done......people that know my work will say "D-Sane produced that." Regardless if I did the beat or not......my songs that I produce have my signature sound. I have signature effects and filters that I use that make songs that I produce uniquely mine. If you produced songs.....they would probably sound different, right? Because you're going to do what sounds good to YOU.

After 12 years of producing songs (mostly self taught by the way)......I have developed my own style of producing songs.....my own style. Dre has his own style, Quincy Jones has his own style and so on.

Hope that makes sense?

 

[Night Shield]

I gotta agree Mr. D-Sane, I recently had completed a track where I received a beat from a guy who basically all they did was provide us with an instramental. We took the beat and actually made it into the song it is now, the creator of the beat is credited as providing the beat BUT not the producer because they didnt have anything to do with the actual creation of the song. Credit is given where it is do but not where it is not. Just my opinion... Take it as that.

 

[Cool Nutz]

Knowone is listening to any haters D-Sane. I have my own mind, and I base my thoughts off of facts and examples. You posted this thread, and all I did was respond. This is a debate that you will go to the grave arguing. However, like I said before. My point is about engineers getting production credit for shit they didn't do. I am not arguing the technical term producer, but I am arguing the point of someone getting production credits, that doesn't deserve it.

You and anyone else can write your credits however you want, but I wouldn't want some engineer taking credit for something that I did. That is my simple point. I have engineered sessions in my studio, and numerous other studios, and not once did I go thinking that I deserved production credits. I have been hired to mix songs, and not once did I think that my contribution was greater then the person who made the beat and wrote the lyrics. That's taking credit for something I didn't do.

That is my simple point my friend. Your aren't the only intelligent person on this board. But you took the stance as though you were educating me about something that I didn't know. You are preaching to the chior my friend.

Producers don't want engineers taking credit for their work. I guarantee that if you buy a track from a well known producer, and you engineer it, and put that you produced it, you will have problems with that producer. And, you can go ask any of them that. Why don't you call Ric Roc up and ask him would he want you taking production credit for his track, if you engineered it? I already know the answer my friend.

 

[HERESY]

i have said "composing/composer" over and over and over again. th eperson who creates the scroe/underlying music (beat) is the composer! he or she is NOT the producer.
originally stated by d-sane

It has NOTHING to do with making the music/song writing.......it has to do with the song being pieced together and recorded on to tape, hard disk.....4 -track......whatever! Then it is tuned using eq, effects, filters, volume control and panning........which the producer decides what needs to be done and CAN tell the engineer (IF there is one) to make it happen if he so decides.

i agree 100%. this is why labels bring in wycleff and sadiq. producers are basically "SHOT CALLERS". they say what goes and what doesnt go.

These 2 processes work hand in hand together to create a song.......but those hands belong to 2 different people......they ARE 2 totally different things! PRODUCING a song has nothing to do with the music! It has to do with the recording of that music and vocals to tape, hard disk or whatever your choice of system may be.....and creating a FINISHED PRODUCT using the various elements of the song....i.e. the beat and the vocals.

i agree 100%. fixed TANGIBLE form.

ENGINEERING is a part of the production process.......it can be done by the PRODUCER......or the job CAN BE delegated to somebody else. From my experience......an engineer is usually brought in to handle the technical shit when somebody is unfamiliar with the studio set-up.....or the studio doesn't want somebody fuckin' with their equipment. The engineer WORKS at the studio full time.....knows the ins and outs of everything and makes the production process run smoother. BUT........they still work for......(guess who??).......THE PRODUCER! The producer tells them what to do......tells Skunt to re-record his take because it was sloppy......tells the bitch in the back to sing louder........tells Jonny to turn his guitar down and decides how the song is going to sound!

i agree 100% which is why i elaborated on it in previous statements. the producer even picks the mic for the job and the bass heads etc etc.

I recorded our first FTS album at my college.....and I had an engineer! But who told that clown what to do? ME!!! I said....."hey....gimme some compression on those vocals.....and some reverb." And he got credit for engineering it.......but did he produce it? No. He didn't even co-produce it. Because I was running the show.

hey im recording my first album here www.prairiesun.com (click STUDIO A). *pre production* was done here at my home. the only thing i have to do when i get to that studio is import my files ,do guitar over dubs,vox,and slight mixing.the owner (mooka) and the other engineer (jason) will SHARE the engineers credit. i will be assnt engineer even though i will probably do MOST of the mixing (but they will do ALL of the tracking). im going to tell em what to do what not to do. what reverb to use what not to use. i already told them how i want my guitars recorded (with microphones AND direct out).

That's like saying that Betty fuckin' Crocker baked me a cake because I bought her box of cake mix. That bitch didn't bake that shit.......I DID.......I PRODUCED A CAKE!

ROFL!

If you make a 1,000 beats......but none of them ever get used for songs......are you still a producer? If so......what have you produced?

YOU ARE A COMPOSER. YOU HAVE COMPOSED MUSIC.

In particular........I want everyone to pay attention to the fact that it CLEARLY stated that RAPHAEL SAADIQ "produced" his album.........EVEN THOUGH.......D'Angelo wrote almost ALL of his own music. Why isn't D'Angelo the producer? Because he's just a fuckin' songwriter.......NOT a producer!

I SAID THE SAME THING POSTS AGO. ONLY THING IS I SPELLED HIS NAME WRONG! LOL!

And now......I will end this rediculous debate with my closing question........ If I record an accapella album with NO music.....whos' the "producer"??????? There must not be one since there's no music, huh?

I AM! I PRODUCED IT!!!!!!!!



ITS NOT A HARD CONCEPT TO GRASP PEOPLE AND MAKE SURE YOU ALL DONT FALL OUT OR GET ALL BENT OUT OF SHAPE OVER THIS. WE ARE ALL TRYING TO MAKE GREAT MUSIC SO PLEASE DONT TAKE THINGS PERSONAL.


THE PRODUCER DOES "CALL THE SHOTS". IF I CALL D-SANE RIGHT NOW (EVEN THOUGH I DONT HAVE HIS NUMBER) I WILL SAY MAKE ME A BEAT THAT HAS BLAH BLAH BLAH AND MAKE SURE BLAH BLAH BLAH COMPLIMENTS THIS AND THAT. AFTER HE *COMPOSES* THE BEAT IM GONNA GO TO TADOU AND 151 TO SPIT OVER IT. WHEN I HOLLA AT BOTH OF THEM IM GOING TO TELL THEM "I HAVE A CONCEPT FOR THIS SONG THIS IS WHAT I WANT YOU TO RAP ABOUT". WHEN I HIT THE STUDIO WITH THEM I WILL TELL COOL NUTZ WHICH MICS I WANT TO USE FOR THE VOCALIST. REVERB,LIMITING ETC ETC ETC. HE WIS GOING TO DO AS HE IS TOLD AND IF HE IS A GOOD ENGINEER HE WILL SPEAK UP WHEN IM GOING OVER BOARD OR SPEAK UP WHEN IM LACKING.

AFTER THE MUSIC/VOCALS HAVE BEEN RECORDED AND I GET THE CD IM GOING TO SUBMIT IT TO "MIKE N IKE RECORDS" TO GO ON A COMPILATION THATS GOING TO BE DISTRIBUTED BY "SIDEBAY DISTRIBUTION".


WHEN THEY ASK FOR THE CREDITS IT WILL BE


SONG PRODUCED AND ARRANGED BY HERESY FOR "TIP TOE IS BACK PUBLISHING ASCAP"

MUSIC COMPOSED BY D-SANE FOR "D-SANE IS AN IDIOT" BMI

PERFORMED BY 151 AND TADOU FOR "BACARDI" ASCAP AND "TADD"ASCAP.

MIXED BY "BOB" COOL NUTZ AT "SCROTUM STUDIOS"

THIS IS HOW IT SHOULD BE LAYED OUT AND THIS IS A SIMPLE ANALOGY. IF YOU CANT GRASP THIS YOUR FINISHED.





:h:

 

[151]

dsane

bottom line is this...its all about words and their meanings..in regards to the word "producer"i personally am refering to producer of the track....when i put in a jay-z cd or whoever,and im pushin thru tha disc,and i hear a bangin asss track(and i dont mean the quality of how its recorded or formatted in tha song,i mean tha notes and inst.thats bein used)i open the cover cuz i wanna kno who made that track.....so i go to track10..it says produced by soandso ,thats all im conserned about...i dont care who recorded that session,who wrote tha hook,how many takes it took tha nigga to spit his verse,or who was in tha studio callin shots,all i care about iz who MADE THA BEAT!!!!!!!!i feel where u comin from in tha technical sense,but then again everything aint technical....u got ur points and we have ours in this matter,i dont feel like anybody iz wrong,its just all out onez perception of thangz

 

[HERESY]

^^^^^ the person who made the beat is the COMPOSER. he or she creates the underlying work (music).


a lot of terms have been misconstrued and taken out of context.

so i go to track10..it says produced by soandso ,thats all im conserned about...i dont care who recorded that session,who wrote tha hook,how many takes it took tha nigga to spit his verse,or who was in tha studio callin shots,all i care about iz who MADE THA BEAT!!!!!!!!

that would be the composer. it should read

"music composed by"

i feel where u comin from in tha technical sense,but then again everything aint technical....

paper work is technical. i dont know about anyone else but i try to learn as much about the BUSINESS as i can. that way i can sit down and hold an intelligent convo without looking like an idiot.


should someone get production credits because he recorded and equalized a track? nope. should someone get production credits if he directed the traficc? yes. should he get composer/performence royalties when he hasnt played a single note? nope.


snuff garret read about the man.

so when does the producer get paid after the record costs have been recouped or before? is it at the net or gross rate?who is responsible for the producers royalties???? artist or label? what about producers advances??????

once again quncy jones doesnt make the music yet he is a producer.


:H:

 

[Mr. D-Sane]

@Tadou.......once again......I'm not even going to bother reading your pointless ramblings. Your credibility went out the window weeks ago........so mind a your business.

@Cool Nutz......I TOTALLY understand your point......and no I didn't need to take it to this length. BUT......this IS an ongoing argument around here just in general and it is also a long-standing misconception that needs to be rectified. Plus I think this is the first time we've had a REAL discussion in the Studio forum!! Like I said to you before......if you were told your whole life that the sky is pink.....you're gonna think it's pink. You're gonna tell other people that it's pink......and most likely.....you're gonna find other people that feel the same way. Here I come telling you it's blue.....of course you're not gonna believe me. Because it goes against what you've thought all these years.

In no way was I/am I trying to insinuate that you're stupid......or an idiot. I just think you're misinformed about some technical aspects of song production. And you have to admit that I have presented a very good and convincing case......regardless of how petty you think this debate is. Especially since I have provided non-bias info from other sources that back my claims......100%.

SONG PRODUCED AND ARRANGED BY HERESY FOR "TIP TOE IS BACK PUBLISHING ASCAP"

MUSIC COMPOSED BY D-SANE FOR "D-SANE IS AN IDIOT" BMI

PERFORMED BY 151 AND TADOU FOR "BACARDI" ASCAP AND "TADD"ASCAP.

MIXED BY "BOB" COOL NUTZ AT "SCROTUM STUDIOS"

THIS IS HOW IT SHOULD BE LAYED OUT AND THIS IS A SIMPLE ANALOGY. IF YOU CANT GRASP THIS YOUR FINISHED.

That is actually how album credits should look. Many people don't understand what those terms mean.....many people have never heard them! I'm not trying to talk shit.......but ALOT of people in the business of Hip-Hop aren't very educated when it comes to the technical aspects of song making. And alot of people because of their lack of proper training and education have tried to simplify definitions......and if you ask me......have also applied them incorrectly. Ask the average aspiring rapper or beat maker what a producer is.......and they're probably gonna say the same shit......"whoever makes the beat"......because the misconception has spread so bad. Ask them why they think that though? "Because Dre makes beats.....and people call him a producer." Yeah Dre is a producer.......but WE ALL KNOW that he doesn't make all of the beats.......so how does he get away with it? Easily.....because he's got it right.

Like my little homie eMDe said.......I sold him a beat.....but until he does a song to it......it's just a beat. All I expect are my credits for the music.....because that's all I did. I don't have any input on what's done with it. What if he decided to put a rock singer on it? Then put produced by D-Sane........fools would think I "produced" a rock song! Fuck that......what they do with that beat is up to the lyricist and the producer of the track.

We'll entertain ourselves over a Coca-Cola someday and discuss this further.

Somebody get Dre on the phone to end this!!! lol

@Heresy.......D-SANE IS AN IDIOT, huh?

@151.......I feel ya pimp and I heard you saying the same thing on the phone the other night......about if you hear a beat you're gonna look at the booklet to see who did it. You know as well as I do though.....that most of the people who do beats actually end up recording it and producing it as well.......so most of the time the term producer is appropriate. It's when other people get involved in the process where things need to be discerned as to who exactly did what......because the next thing you know.....cats are trippin'.....ya know?

 

[phil]

id just like to say that im in sponge mode right now, so dont mind me. keep it comin (except the analogies, all this football and cake baking shit is confusing me more and more)

 

[Cool Nutz]

@ D-Sane
You are beginnig to insult me bro with all this shit that you are talking. I called you yesterday, and told you to call me. Just because you have 1 or 2 people that take your side, that doesn't mean that you are corrcet in your arguement. And don't ever talk me like I am some ignorant person, that has been mislead all my life. You are beginning to make me feel like you don't respect me or something. You can return my call and talk about this like grown men, rather then over the internet.

Like I told you before, I don't argue the term producer, but I do argue the point of taking production credit for enigineering a song. I am not one of these stupid rappers that you are used to dealing with, and don't try to talk to me like I am. Don't try to convince me that you have made some great point. I can pull all sorts of production credits from records, and they don't read the way that you guys have listed above, or the way that you guys think they should read.

 

[Cool Nutz]

@ D-Sane
And this whole arguement has to do with an album that I am putting out. All I wanted to clrify for the album credits, was exactly what you did, and who actually produced the track. All you had to do was tell me what you did, and what Skunt did, and that would have been the end to the whole situation. Instead, you want to get all defensive, and try to make some point.

All I really care about, is who did what on the song. Because if you only engineered the song, and Skunt did the production, the he would have a problem with you taking production credit. And I'm not getting in the middle of that shit. So since we are trying to get to the bottom of this, why don't you let us know what creative input you had on the song, besides adding effects and mixing? This will clarify everything and be the end-all to this arguement.

So let me know if you had something to do with the arrangement of music or vocals, the writing of music or vocals, or you played some of the parts. If this is the case, you deserve production credit. If this is not the case, then you deserve engineering credits. And then we can go and verify this with Skunt, and this will end this whole debate. This sounds like a fair solution.

I don't care about the technical terms of any of this shit, I care about who did the REAL work, and gets the real credit for it. So let's get to the bottom of THIS song, because this song is what the whole debate is about. It's really about what credit YOU deserve for the song, not about the technical term producer.

Holler back.

 

[HERESY]

@tadou an "executive producer" is the *MONEY MAN*. he or she puts up the cash (SUGE KNIGHT did this for a quik album also). if dre is the EXECUTIVE PRODUCER of the new xzibit dre must be PAYING for xzibits time or has provided a budget for him.

if all you did was play Mr Big Shot in the studio, and tell everyone what to do...YOU ARE A SUPERVISER...NOT A PRODUCER!

you are 100% INCORRECT saadiq PRODUCED D'Angelo music. a lot of times when a label is feeling YOU but not some of your MATERIAL they will HIRE a *PRODUCER* to take your stuff to the next level,give you ideas etc etc etc. sometimes YOU will have to hire one on your own.

most of you are saying producer this producer that and dont even know who the FIRST *producer* WAS. please say "it doesnt matter" or "i dont care". you MUST have an understanding on how things work.

Dont think of the word "produce" as in the making of the song...thats been turned into Recording/Engineering

since when???????????????????? when i record this album at prairie sun mooka,jason or kev ski (if he decides to help) will NOT and i repeat will NOT get ANY *production credits*!!!!


I DOUBT THAT SUGE (AN EXECUTIVE PRODUCER) TELLS HIS BOYS THAT THEY NEED TO USE AVALON PRE AMPS AND NEED TO MIX THROUGH AN SSL. YOUR DEFINITION OF "EXECUTIVE PRODUCER" IS WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY OFF MY FRIEND.

@Heresy.......D-SANE IS AN IDIOT, huh?

LOL! DAMN RIGHT!!!!!!:classic:


in closing i would like to say that another reason why this game is saturated with WEAK music and bad contracts is because people are not familiar with the correct terms and verbage.


the QUICKEST way that ***I*** learned about this BUSINESS and how things SHOULD go is because i chose to:

1.network with *BUSINESSMEN* and NOT really artist.

2.read

3.read

4.read



:H:


ps excuse all typos

 

[DeluzioN]

a while back i had a good conversation with tha homie Ray Swift (better known as DJ Swift)....that cat has been there and done that, FOR REAL. his beats have been used by Monica ("Just One Of Them Days"), Usher ("U Remind Me"), etc. used to have a jazz/r&b group with Brian McKnight (one of tha best singer/songwriters around), and has worked with numerous amounts of big name people. thing is tho, he didnt PRODUCE that monica track OR that usher track. he made tha conceptual beat at home and shopped it off. the producer recieved/chose tha beat to work with, and he took it from there...whether adding tha persons vocals, etc. ...all the PRODUCTION stuff. Ray just composed the minstrumental music. if HE took that beat to tha studio and told usher exactly how to sing it, when to sing certain parts, how to change his voice in those parts, adding any effects needed, deciding the mixing levels and what runs to what, touching up the instrumental in any areas it might be needed, THEN he would be considered tha producer of those tracks...but , he is only the composer. sooo, im going to hafto agree with d-sane and heresy on most of this post.

i think tha best thing to do in this situation is to give skunt composition credits and d-sane production/engineer credits....tho i think it takes a lil more than choosing mixing levels, recording, and adding effects to be labeled as "production" (i.e...did u guide skunt and sarkastik thru thier vocals and how they should deliver them or touch them up, or how they should write thier lyrics to best fit with the instrumental?)

anyways, hope u guys figure it out...just had to drop my 425 cents

 

[Mr. D-Sane]

Damn......Deluzional is singing a different song now. Last time we had this discussion he was disagreeing with me. Good shit.

@COOL NUTZ......I'm sorry you feel that way bro. I really think that you listen to what other people have to say about me too much though. Otherwise you wouldn't have said what you did....."D-Sane thinks he knows it all." Notice how you put it in "quotes"? That means you were quoting somebody.....and the way I hear it......it was from Theo making a comment about me during a studio session down there......correct me if I'm wrong? And I would consider that EXTREMELY disrespectful if that's the case.....considering the status of mine and his relationship these days. If I had some sort of ill feelings towards you......trust me.....I WOULD tell you. I wouldn't just sit here and take subtle jabs at you.

Who are these dumb rappers that I work with that you keep referring to though?

I have major respect for you (more than you have for me...for sure)......but I don't exactly feel it given back all the time (for numerous reasons). If you feel like I'm insulting you because I disagree with you or because you feel like I'm speaking to you in some sort of disrespectful way.....then I apologize. I'm just trying to prove my point beyond a reasonable doubt. You can't hate me for trying to prove something......especially something that REALLY bothers me and I feel very strongly about. Maybe you don't take this type of shit AS seriously as I do.......producing is my life my friend.....it's all I do.....ALL DAY - EVERYDAY.

I won't discuss this subject any further......obviously it's pointless.....so fuck it.

Also......I got your messages. But unless you want me calling you at 4am.....I'm gonna holla when I have time during the day (which will be today most likely). It's 6:30am right now....and I'm still awake.....I'm a nightowl. I usually don't get up till the afternoon and have had studio sessions every day this week which usually start right when I get up. I had a 17 hour session on Tuesday.....slept for 3 hours......worked all day and night Wednesday....Thursday.....Friday......I'm a slave to the studio dog....sorry. This is when I have free time.....and if you notice what time all my posts are.......they are usually around this same time. Same with the e-mails I send you......I'm on my way to bed.......not just gettin' up. You be calling me while I'm sleepin'........

But I'll holla @ you today so we can scream at each other......