Heaven, Hell and Earthly Existence

[FreedomLost]

I said I'd answer the other question, not sure if you were just getting at the second, but
just in case.

1) What necessitated my being in this earthly situation to begin with

To give Glory to God in an environment of free will.

 

[swoop187]

The problem, ThaG, is that you want all discussions about God to boil down to the question of whether or not God exists. Some of us are simply beyond that question.

No one in here is arguing fashion in order to try and get anyone to believe in the emperor's clothes. That blog you linked to is simply irrelevant. This isn't a discussion where theists try to convince atheists or vice versa. But you take all religious discussion as if that is what it is about.

If you want to discuss whether God exists or not, make a new thread.

That image in its self is a modern piece of work from an idiot artist who doesnt even know/speak/read/write latin...

 

[ThaG]

it's the first two images that matter

 

[swoop187]

it hurts, I know

No your a fucking idiot of epic proportions who is delusional.

 

[swoop187]

it's the first two images that matter

Hey idiot thats been duped, those are fakes.

 

[ThaG]

you still don't get it?

 

[NovaFire]

What I am saying is, it isn't a direct choice. We aren't directly saying, "I want to be on earth" .

Agreed

Sure, everyone wants the sublime, but what we each consider sublime may differ. For those who are attracted to material pleasures, they will take shelter in this material world. They think this is sublime. Others realize the transient nature of such pleasures and seek out something eternal. For the materialist, the idea of eternal pleasure is unreal. He goes for the Geo because it is immediately available to his senses..

Good point, but the end result, the feeling of sublime, is the same for both. If when we touch the sublime, we are hitting on something higher than physical, then both the sensual and and the spiritual are one in the same.

Right. People can change instantly or people can change later on. They can and they do. Therefore a person's "colors" can change. God is inexhaustible. So there is no excuse to make a time limit. ..

Yes but there must be a day of rekonin, otherwise everything loses meaning and perspective. That means that the godless can also be eternal. If thats the case than there are really two choices to existance. Meaning that god created two kinds of souls to exist, the light and the dark.

Even if that is the case, God is inexhaustible. I, however, do not believe that this would be the case with anyone. That which makes one evil or ineligible for salvation is attraction to the material nature in ignorance of God. I do not believe that God creates beings who are inherently and incessantly ignorant of God. Actually, I don't believe God creates living entities at all. I entertain the idea that He creates souls because many other theists subscribe to this idea. But in the case that souls are coeternal with God, their original position is spiritual. Then, somehow or other, some of them fall into the material nature. So none are inherently evil regardless if they are created or are properly eternal. ..

Again if this is true, than there is really no consequences to the choices we make in the grand scheme of things. Even if none are inherently evil, they may become evil, and if there is no existance of time limit, then evil is as eternal as god. but if everything is connected to god nothing can live outside god, and so that would make god partly evil, which would go against him to begin with.

I disagree. If we are eternal beings, then nonexistence is not an option. Our free will is limited in this way. Limits don't negate freedom. This means understanding ontological versus practical freedom. If eternity is "up in the air," so to speak, then there is no eternity.
Forgetfulness is an option and it happens all the time. This practically serves the same purpose as nonexistence. We have no idea who we really are at the moment. Even the aggregate of a million material lifetimes won't tell us that. And when we wake up, all those past identifications are nonexistent. Still, we are existing.

Disagreed, there is eternity solely because god exist, he is eternal, everything connects to him, so eternity by definition has to exist. We are also part of god, and are aslo eternal, but we also posses free will that gives us the choice of nonexistance, god goes on, we dont, therefore eternity exist with or without us.

 

[Fucky McFuckerson]

Way to be classy, ThaG.....

 

[Ethereal]

1) What necessitated my being in this earthly situation to begin with and, 2) What changes in the future that bars me from the option of earthly existence?

Asked another way, if I am currently experiencing this third option known as earthly existence, then why/how isn't this option available later? Certainly, whatever called for it in the first place can apply later on if nothing on my end has changed.

I get the idea that this question assumes that God is/was directly involved in your existance. This is my understanding because it seems you believe something necessitated your existance but are curious as to what. And you may also believe that if God was directly involved in your "creation" then what is it that bars you from acheiving the same fortune again. It is my belief that nothing necessitated your existance to begin with aside from the process of intercourse up to the point of your birth. God may have just laid the foundation and made it possible for each of us to exist, and it is all really up to chance.

This is something I believe is a strong possibility, and that is the extent of it. So it is worth adding to this thread because for it to be true, we need not ponder such questions.

 

[n9newunsixx5150]

I get the idea that this question assumes that God is/was directly involved in your existance. This is my understanding because it seems you believe something necessitated your existance but are curious as to what. And you may also believe that if God was directly involved in your "creation" then what is it that bars you from acheiving the same fortune again. It is my belief that nothing necessitated your existance to begin with aside from the process of intercourse up to the point of your birth. God may have just laid the foundation and made it possible for each of us to exist, and it is all really up to chance.

This is something I believe is a strong possibility, and that is the extent of it. So it is worth adding to this thread because for it to be true, we need not ponder such questions.

Then my question becomes: Why can't the "chance" that necessitated my earthly existence to begin with also be a factor in the future? Why would I necessarily go to heaven or hell but not have the possibility of remaining on this material/earthly platform?
Whatever you want to call it - "chance" or "direct involvement from God" - the questions remain. Obviously, if we are invoking a world view wherein an omniscient God exists, then whether He creates directly or lays the foundation that leads to our existence, He is the one in control and knowingly creates living souls. Whatever consideration God made that allowed us this earthly life and whatever consideration God makes for us to continue this earthly life for any amount of time, what changes later that bars this situation from the list of possibilities?

 

[ThaG]

The problem with this view is that He is a product of the imagination of ignorant cavemen who lived many thousands of years ago and His meme has been transmitted to early childhood indoctrination ever since

You aren't going to hell or heaven, your are going to the worms, fungi and bacteria in the soil

 

[n9newunsixx5150]

^^^Your response assumes a physicalism that this thread does not.

 

[Ethereal]

It also assumes he can explain existance which he cannot.

 

[ThaG]

^^^Your response assumes a physicalism that this thread does not.

your thread assumes the existence of a bearded man in the sky, which means that you should be diagnosed with the appropriate condition

 

[n9newunsixx5150]

your thread assumes the existence of a bearded man in the sky, which means that you should be diagnosed with the appropriate condition

Incorrect. This thread does not assume the existence of a bearded man in the sky. And even if it did, you don't have to contribute to this thread if you don't want.

 

[ThaG]

It also assumes he can explain existance which he cannot.

things that make no sense can't be explained by definition

 

[ThaG]

Incorrect. This thread does not assume the existence of a bearded man in the sky. And even if it did, you don't have to contribute to this thread if you don't want.

So what exactly does your set of superstitious beliefs assume?

 

[n9newunsixx5150]

So what exactly does your set of superstitious beliefs assume?

This thread isn't about my beliefs.

 

[ThaG]

This thread isn't about my beliefs.

I can not call the conviction that heaven and hell exist anything else other than a superstitious belief (well, "a condition requiring professional psychiatric care" also comes to mind, but let's not go there)

 

[n9newunsixx5150]

I can not call the conviction that heaven and hell exist anything else other than a superstitious belief (well, "a condition requiring professional psychiatric care" also comes to mind, but let's not go there)

This thread isn't concerned with what you call the conviction that heaven and hell exist.