HBO: Game of Thrones

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Nov 24, 2003
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This post is from Reddit, simple background on Rhaegar and the popular theory that he's Jon Snow's father. The post reaches a bit with prophecies at the end, but the background is explained nice and simple which I thought some people here might like.





If you are only a fan of the show, Rhaegar's identity and actions are murky at best, so for those wanting a little background, I threw this together real quick. If you have read the books, this is all old news to you. This post contains heavy book spoilers regarding other characters on the show, not just Rhaegar.

Rhaegar was born during the Tragedy at Sumerhall. Sumerhall was exactly what it sounds like, a summer vacation spot for the Targaryen royal family. Now the details are sketchy, but the rumor is the Targs were trying to hatch dragon eggs through some sort of magical ritual that involved, you guessed it, a lot of fire. Whatever they were doing it went horribly wrong, and the fires burned down most of Summerhall, and a large portion of the Targaryen family with it. It was during this event that Rhaegar was born.

At a young age, Rhaegar was very bookish, without the least bit of martial inclination, leading many to joke his mother ate books when he was in the womb. One day, after reading an unknown tome, Rhaegar (R from here on out) marched up to the master at arms in the Red Keep and said something to the effect of "It seems I need to be a warrior. Train me." From that point on, R was one of the most respected warriors in all the in the Seven Kingdoms, rarely losing a tournament, and being held in awe by such notable BAMF's as Barristan Selmy and Jaime Lannister.

Now R never lost the melancholy that his birth left on him, and would often return to the ruins of Sumerhall alone. He constantly kept a very unique silver harp with him, and was known to play so well as to leave the ladies in tears. Basically, anything R did, he was one of the best in the world at.

R was the first born son of the Mad King Aerys Targaryen, the man would later murder Ned Stark's father and older brother Brandon. After Aerys refused to marry R to Cersei Lannister, he was instead wed to Elia of Dorne (the younger sister of Prince Oberyn, the Red Viper.) Elia gave him two children, who were later murdered by the Mountain in the sack of King's Landing. "You raped her! You Murdered her!" That was Rhaegar's wife, Elia and their children.

Along with Rhaegar, the Mad King also had two more children, Danerys and Viserys. But Rhaegar was the first born son, so any succession would go through him and his children. This is very important if you believe the theory behind Jon's true heritage, as it would mean his claim would come before Dany's, but we'll get back to that in a second.

Ok now that family trees are out of the way, after R and Elia had been married for a bit, there was a great tournament at Harrenal, the one mentioned by Littlefinger in the episode with Sansa in the crypts of Winterfell. So anyways, after winning a tournament, which R did, typically the victor would crown a woman as "The Quenn of Love and Beauty." This was a ceremonial title of course, and in this case R crowned Lyanna Stark, as opposed to his wife Elia. So this was were most people point to when the trouble began.

We don't ever get told exactly why R did this, but it's assumed he was privy to some type of prophecy that foretold of a dragon with three heads that would save the world, presumably from the Others. R already had a son, Aegon (murdered by the Mountain later on,) but since the prophecy stated the dragon would have three heads, he decided he would need another. And whoever this hypothetical son would be, his "would be the song of ice and fire," which is the actual name of the book series.

Still with me?

So at this point R kidnaps Lyanna Stark, who was betrothed to Robert Baratheon, and for this and other reasons, The Baratheons and Starks start a rebellion, and the Tullys and Arryns quickly join up. Until this point though, Rhaegar was basically the most beloved and respected man in all the Seven Kingdoms. That's why you saw Littlefinger pause when speaking to Sansa, the kidnapping story doesn't jive with who everyone thought R to be. Littlefinger may not know exactly the details of Lyanna's "kidnapping" and eventual death, but he is smart enough to know something doesn't fit.

So when R kidnaps Lyanna, he disappears with her for a long time, even though there is a rebellion going on. Eventually R comes out of hiding, and is killed by Robert at the Trident. Which leaves us at all the theories about Jon's parentage. But the main points are that, R was a well respected, level headed person, who supposedly did something crazy, and most readers assume he was simply attempting to fulfill a prophecy. And if you consider the Starks as ice, and the Targs as fire, you would get the literal embodiment of the Song of Ice and Fire, in Jon Snow (Targaryen.) And don't for a second think that Lyanna and R weren't married. Targaryens were known to take multiple wives, so R's marriage to Elia Martell would not have stopped him from marrying again. Jon is not a bastard, he's the son of two great houses. R would not start a war for a side chick, he needed a legitimate heir, one born through the marriage of Ice and Fire.

Rhaeger was characterized in the books as being good at everything he ever tried, including warfare. Despite being Lebron James good at warfare, Rhaegar always preferred a book and his harp to a shield and sword. Everything that Rhaegar did, including his actions with Lyanna, come across as someone performing a duty, sort of like the Spider Man mantra, with great power comes great responsibility.

If R was in fact carrying out a duty by giving birth to a child with Lyanna, he had to believe that it was for a higher purpose. R also had to know that the "kidnapping" of Lyanna would most likely lead to his death. He was smart enough to know that right off the bat, the Baratheons, Starks, Arryns, and Tullys would be gunning for him for various reasons. No matter how strong the monarchy is, you can't last if 4 of the 7 great houses are in rebellion, with the Lannisters loyalty always a dubious proposition since the Mad King had been pissing off Tywin for years at that point, you are down to just the Tyrells and Martells supporting the crown.

So R carried out the kidnapping knowing full well it would most likely lead to his death. We assume the reason was to produce a son that could fight The Others, and thus something more important than his life. R felt it was his duty, and had little choice in the matter. Elia was no longer capable of bearing children, her last child birth almost killed her, and if the "dragon needed three heads" then R would need more children. R was acting selflessly in the interest of the Realm, and paid the ultimate price for it.
 
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May 13, 2002
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In AFFC have you gotten to when Brienne meets Septon Meribald and they go to the Quiet Isle? There's some super cool shit you need to know about that scene
I was going to respond to this before the crash. Is the cool shit regarding the lame gravedigger? You talkin about get HYPE? lol I read that specifically paying close attention because of your post. And then a day or two later stumbled across a certain theory online. Man, if true fucking hell that would be sick
 

B-Buzz

lenbiasyayo
Oct 21, 2002
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I was going to respond to this before the crash. Is the cool shit regarding the lame gravedigger? You talkin about get HYPE? lol I read that specifically paying close attention because of your post. And then a day or two later stumbled across a certain theory online. Man, if true fucking hell that would be sick
it all checks out to me. Him being bigger than Brienne, has a gimp leg, the dog runs over to him & someone says he's a novice gravedigger. Now he just needs to be The Faith's champion in Cersei's trial. So hyyyyyype.

all the stuff with Meribald is my favorite shit in the whole series, this might be the best passage GRRM's ever written

“Ser? My lady?” said Podrick. “Is a broken man an outlaw?”

“More or less,” Brienne answered.

Septon Meribald disagreed. “More less than more. There are many sorts of outlaws, just as there are many sorts of birds. A sandpiper and a sea eagle both have wings, but they are not the same. The singers love to sing of good men forced to go outside the law to fight some wicked lord, but most outlaws are more like this ravening Hound than they are The Lightning Lord. They are evil men, driven by greed, soured by malice, despising the gods and caring only for themselves. Broken men are more deserving of our pity, though they may be just as dangerous. Almost all are common-born, simple folk who had never been more than a mile from the house where they were born until the day some lord came round to take them off to war. Poorly shod and poorly clad, they march away beneath his banners, ofttimes with no better arms than a sickle or a sharpened hoe, or a maul they made themselves by lashing a stone to a stick with strips of hide. Brothers march with brothers, sons with fathers, friends with friends. They’ve heard the songs and stories, so they go off with eager hearts, dreaming of the wonders they will see, of the wealth and glory they will win. War seems a fine adventure, the greatest most of them will ever know.

“Then they get a taste of battle.

“For some, that one taste is enough to break them. Others go on for years, until they lose count of all the battles they have fought in, but even a man who has survived a hundred fights can break in his hundred-and-first. Brothers watch their brothers die, fathers lose their sons, friends see their friends trying to hold their entrails in after they’ve been gutted by an axe.

“They see the lord who led them there cut down, and some other lord shouts that they are his now. They take a wound, and when that’s still half-healed they take another. There is never enough to eat, their shoes fall to pieces from the marching, their clothes are torn and rotting, and half of them are shitting in their breeches from drinking bad water.

“If they want new boots or a warmer cloak or maybe a rusted iron halfhelm, they need to take them from a corpse, and before long they are stealing from the living too, from the smallfolk whose lands they’re fighting in, men very like the men they used to be. They slaughter their sheep and steal their chickens, and from there it’s just a short step to carrying off their daughters too. And one day they look around and realize all their friends and kin are gone, that they are fighting beside strangers beneath a banner that they hardly recognize. They don’t know where they are or how to get back home and the lord they’re fighting for does not know their names, yet here he comes, shouting for them to form up, to make a line with their spears and scythes and sharpened hoes, to stand their ground. And the knights come down on them, faceless men clad all in steel, and the iron thunder of their charge seems to fill the world…

“And the man breaks.

“He turns and runs, or crawls off afterward over the corpses of the slain, or steals away in the black of night, and he finds someplace to hide. All thought of home is gone by then, and kings and lords and gods mean less to him than a haunch of spoiled meat that will let him live another day, or a skin of bad wine that might drown his fear for a few hours. The broken man lives from day to day, from meal to meal, more beast than man. Lady Brienne is not wrong. In times like these, the traveler must beware of broken men, and fear them…but he should pity them as well.”

When Meribald was finished a profound silence fell upon their little band. Brienne could hear the wind rustling through a clump of pussywillows, and farther off the faint cry of a loon. She could hear Dog panting softly as he loped along beside the septon and his donkey, tongue lolling from his mouth. The quiet stretched and stretched, until finally she said, “How old were you when they marched you off to war?”

“Why, no older than your boy,” Meribald replied. “Too young for such, in truth, but my brothers were all going, and I would not be left behind. Willam said I could be his squire, though Will was no knight, only a potboy armed with a kitchen knife he’d stolen from the inn. He died upon the Stepstones, and never struck a blow. It was fever did for him, and for my brother Robin. Owen died from a mace that split his head apart, and his friend Jon Pox was hanged for rape.”

“The War of the Ninepenny Kings?” asked Hyle Hunt.

“So they called it, though I never saw a king, nor earned a penny. It was a war, though. That it was.”
 
May 13, 2002
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That's a trip man, I was going to search for that online and post it here but the site was down. I read it over like 6 times in a row. Really stood out for me, was one of the realist shit written in the books.

Sidenote, I love how Pod consistently doesn't know how to address Brienne, Ser? My lady? Every time lol
 
May 13, 2002
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Wow I never knew this....




In 2006, screenwriters D.B. Weiss and David Benioff approached George R.R. Martin, the author of the acclaimed A Song of Ice and Fire series, to see if he was open to a television adaption.

That meeting spawned the creation of HBO's "Game of Thrones" series; now the most popular series the network's history. But many fans of the show don't realize what Weiss and Benioff had to do in order to secure Martin's trust.

In a Q&A back in 2013, the story was told of how the three of them sat down for a lunch that was eventually dragged into a five hour meeting. Martin recounted, "I did ask them a few pointed question to determine whether they had actually read the books, and they gave me the right answers."

When asked to specify what they were grilled on, Weiss elaborated:

He asked us, “Who is Jon Snow’s mother?” We had discussed it before, and we gave a shocking answer. At that point, George didn’t actually say whether or not we were right or wrong, but his smile was his tell. We knew we had passed the Wonka test, at that point.
 

BUTCHER 206

FREE BUTCHER206
Aug 22, 2003
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I have a mixed reaction for this season. On the one hand a lot of it was pretty terrible, especially all of the sand snake stuff and Jaime's little trip to Dorne lol. On the other hand I got to see a lot of the stuff that I haven't even read yet, and some of it was pulled off really well, especially the Hard Home stuff. It's uncharted territory at this point, which I figured would happen because G.R.R. Martin writes sooooo slow. Fuck it. I'm going to keep an open mind and try to remain positive about it.

My theory: I think Daenerys is going to be captured by the Dothraki, who will try to bring her back to where she was originally supposed to go after Khal Drogo died. Like the Khaleesi retirement home for widows in some mountain I think it was. What happen next I dunno; I think Tyrion will have the dragons loosed and they'll rescue her, maybe it'll terrify the Dothraki and she'll gain that army, or maybe this is the end of her story. Who the hell knows, I can see G.R.R. Martin making her the focus this whole time only to kill her off or end it all, he doesn't make the greatest decisions lol.

Now this is kind of ridiculous but I think Stannis is still alive. Brienne is a pussy and she probably kept Stannis alive and will bring him back to the wall to take the black. His death was never shown on screen. Stannis comes back to the wall, the red priestess resurrects Jon Snow, Stannis legitimizes Jon Snow who is freed from his vows, before taking the black himself, Stannis leads the fight against the white walkers. Jon Stark rally's the northern lords against Ramsay's bitch ass. Ramsay's plot armor comes off and he's unable to destroy Jon's entire army with only 20 good men and he ends up dieing, then Jon kills Roose Bolton and takes Winterfell.
 
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BUTCHER 206

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Also I think G.R.R. Martin won't finish The Winds of Winter by the time the next season starts. He'll tell D&D what he thinks is going to happen, but I think there's a sort of animosity going on that the audience doesn't really know about yet. It'll come out when they take the show a certain direction, and Martin retaliates by taking the book a different direction. Martin has said that people today are spoiled, they want instant gratification and want quick fast content, but he's from the old school where you'd have to wait like 20 years to get a sequel to your favorite fantasy tales. I think he's going to get bitter about the all of the changes to his content or maybe he already is, and the fact that D&D have basically claimed ownership of Game of Thrones will finally be too much for him, and he'll try to ruin it all lol. Game of Thrones will conclude then Martin will end the books in a completely different way
 
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