Giants sign Edgardo Alfonzo

KINGCZAR · Dec 16, 2002

Neither Schmidt nor Ortiz are "Great" pitchers!! But both are good pitchers, but I think Ortiz is a lil better to me!! But let me better phrase what drankout said...If the Midgets trade Ortiz, then they wont have a chance to make the playoffs, let alone win in the playoffs!! But we will see what happens the rest of the winter as far as signings go!!

On anotha note my Mets signed Mike Stanton! he is a pretty damn good lefty out the pen!! I like that signing!! But we still need to replace Alfonzo!! GOT EM!!

Nitro GH · Dec 16, 2002

I just dont see why anyone would say Ortiz is better, theres nothing that says he is. Plus Schmidt throws the heater 97-98mph average fastball. Neither are "GREAT" compared to some pitchers, but both could be. As for not being able to win without him, i wouldnt say that, it depends on how much they make up for it with offense, and who they replace him with.

KINGCZAR · Dec 16, 2002

Its just my opinion mane!! I could say the samething about why yall think Schmidt is better!! Its the same as me think A.I. is better than Ko_Me feel me!! Thats called sporting shit!! U gotta luv it, that there are gonna be diferent opinons, cause if we all thought the same, then sports would be borin right? GOT EM!!!

CURT B · Dec 16, 2002

yeah giants r dope we r gonna smash on fools next year again

Nitro GH · Dec 16, 2002

KINGCZAR said:

Yea you right its all opinions and thats yours. As for A.I. being compared to Kobe, there are a lot of things you could argue, there obvious ways A.I. is better, and ways Kobe is better. I dont see an arguement for Ortiz and Schmidt. Like you said though, thats your opinion.

KINGCZAR · Dec 16, 2002

To bad curt b, that yall came away with nuthin last year, just like yall will do this year!! GOT EM!!!

Nitro GH · Dec 16, 2002

We came away with the NL Pennant and an MVP. Its not a ring, but its alot more then most other teams got.

KINGCZAR · Dec 16, 2002

Yea yall did get that, but yall be seein a world series ring anytime soon!! Good shit last year though, but that wont happen this year!! GOT EM!!!

NICOYA415 · Dec 16, 2002

Nitro GH said:

They did get a ring playa!! All the Giants get NL Championship rings!! Not the ring most of them wanted, but still a ring!!

KINGCZAR · Dec 16, 2002

Come on mane, u know what the fuck Im talkin bout!! I bet most of them got wedding rings as well!! haha! None of them will ever see a WS ring unless they got it from anotha team!! GOT EM!!!

Mcleanhatch · Dec 17, 2002

Nitro GH said:

wrong look below

season TM G GS CG SHO IP H R ER HR BB SO W L ERA
2001 Pit 14 14 1 0 84.0 81 46 43 11 28 77 6 6 4.61
2001 SF 11 11 0 0 66.1 57 29 25 2 33 65 7 1 3.39
2001 -- 25 25 1 0 150.1 138 75 68 13 61 142 13 7 4.07
2002 SF 29 29 2 2 185.1 148 78 71 15 73 196 13 8 3.45

lifetim 191 182 8 2 1135.0 1132 602 546 110 478 924 69 62 4.33

as you can see he has gone 26-15 (20-8 since being a giant) the last 2 years with an ERA roughly about 3.70

you can also see his life-time numbers are 69-62 with a 4.33 era with 924 K's, sorry but those arent top of the rotation numbers.

Nitro GH said:

YEAR TM G GS CG SHO IP H R ER HR BB SO W L ERA
1998 SF 22 13 0 0 88.1 90 51 49 11 46 75 4 4 4.99
1999 SF 33 33 3 0 207.2 189 109 88 24 125 164 18 9 3.81
2000 SF 33 32 0 0 195.2 192 117 109 28 112 167 14 12 5.01
2001 SF 33 33 1 1 218.2 187 90 80 13 91 169 17 9 3.29
2002 SF 33 33 2 0 214.1 191 89 86 15 94 137 14 10 3.61

Total 154 144 6 1 924.2 849 456 412 91 468 712 67 44 4.01

as you can see ortiz has gone 31-20 over the last 2 years with roughly a 3.40 ERA with 712 K's

you can also see his lifetime numbers are 67-44 with a 4.01 ERA with 712 K's.

Nitro GH said:

ortiz lifetime numbers

G GS CG SHO IP H R ER HR BB SO W L ERA
year 154 144 6 1 924. 849 456 412 91 468 712 67 44 4.01

schmidt lifetime numbers

G GS CG SHO IP H R ER HR BB SO W L ERA
LIFE 191 182 8 2 1135.0 1132 602 546 110 478 924 69 62 4.33

now to me ortiz is a way better pitcher based on his lifetime numbers, plus he is 28 years old and is only making 3.6 melons this year and schmidt is 29 and is making 4.9 melons this year

Nitro GH · Dec 18, 2002

Mcleanhatch said:

The first part, and all of the numbers you posted only further prove my point. You were talking about Ortiz being good since he came to San Francisco, I did the same with Schmidt; since he came to the Giants. Now your throwing career numbers at me. As far as that (career stats) goes, and how they reflect on him compared to a "top of the rotation" pitcher, it is all irrelevant to the fact that he is NOW the better pitcher. What he did 5 years ago doesnt mean anything now. Greg Maddux was once the best pitcher in the game, because of that are you going to take him over Pedro right now?

Mcleanhatch · Dec 18, 2002

Nitro GH said:

actually i posted their numbers lifetime, and for the past 2 years, and i also posted schmidts numbers since he arrived in SF

last 2 years
schmidt---> 26-15 (20-8 as a giant), 340K and 3.70 ERA
ortiz-------> 31-20, 300K, and 3.40 ERA

now based on those numbers if i were the giants i would have traded schmidt and kept ortiz simply because the numbers are simular with a slight edge to Ortiz and also ortiz is a year younger and is do to make about $1.3 melons less next year

Nitro GH · Dec 18, 2002

Mcleanhatch said:

I think the edge goes to Schmidt. Strikeouts go to him obviously, in his next 10 games he would have to go 5-5 to equal Ortiz W/L. Im sure he could go 7-3 Atleast. ERA is all Ortiz has on him, which is a major factor, but there is no presence of a significant difference here.

Mcleanhatch said:

Maybe the Giants see what i see?

Mcleanhatch · Dec 19, 2002

Nitro GH said:

maybe and hopefully you are both wrong, being that i am a bigtime DODGER fan.

thats just what i would have done. the only reason why i could think that they would like schmidt more than ortiz is that he can bring the heat--->96mph to ortiz's--->91-92.

but according to the numbers ortiz is better and as for the w-l numbers i would say that schmidt hade more run support than ortiz because he had a higher ERA yet %age wise had a better W-L record

imagine this a guy is

20-6 with a 2.50 ERA then another guy is
22-8 with a 4.10 ERA
which 1 is better

i have always put more emphasis on ERA

Nitro GH · Dec 19, 2002

I agree on the heater. Schmidt has been know to throw 96/97 on a constant basis, i like pitchers that can throw hard. ERA is very significant to me as well, i would take a guy with an era under 2 with a losing record over a guy that is 10-0 with a 4.5 ERA with ease. Because its only a matter of time before the tables turn. I just didnt see a significant difference between the two. I dont think there is a big enough difference between them to argue who is really better, both have points in there game that the other doesnt. I would have liked to keep Ortiz, but we dont need a money issue right now in SF. You know how when your team is in the playoffs, theres that one pitcher that make your day go by easier, knowing that he will more then likely win. Thats how i felt with Schmidt on the mound, Ortiz may be just as good, shit maybe even better, but i felt really skeptical when he was pitching. Seeing as how he lost his last three outings it doesnt suprise me how. On a side note, when Livan was on the mound (reguardless his perfect post season record) i sketched a L in the books.

Mcleanhatch · Dec 19, 2002

Nitro GH said:

totally agree

Giants sign Edgardo Alfonzo

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