Evolution v. Creation
- Thread starter Ethereal
- Start date
lmao
I was drunk as *fuck* last night.
I woke up this morning still drunk. I can't believe I actually tried to type.
Communism causes people to believe in the irrational because they would have to believe that the next man would work as hard as them, even when seeing no appreciable outcome. I know I'm a lazy fuckin bastard. I care about other people but I don't care enough to forsake the complete notion of any kind of personal gain.
I know if a paycheck was gauranteed, I'd work just enough not to get fired. I wouldn't put any real effort into what I did. The fact that the poor people are no longer poor would not be a huge motivation for me. It's like, we're raising up the bottom bar, but everyone who isn't at the bottom won't see a real gain if any gain at all.
I was drunk as *fuck* last night.
I woke up this morning still drunk. I can't believe I actually tried to type.
Communism causes people to believe in the irrational because they would have to believe that the next man would work as hard as them, even when seeing no appreciable outcome. I know I'm a lazy fuckin bastard. I care about other people but I don't care enough to forsake the complete notion of any kind of personal gain.
I know if a paycheck was gauranteed, I'd work just enough not to get fired. I wouldn't put any real effort into what I did. The fact that the poor people are no longer poor would not be a huge motivation for me. It's like, we're raising up the bottom bar, but everyone who isn't at the bottom won't see a real gain if any gain at all.
No, I have never had blind faith in anything in all of my life.
Faith is belief without, or in spite of, REASON. I will not accept the existence of god or any other "mysterious force" on faith because I completely reject faith as a valid method of gaining knowledge.
"Faith: The commintment of one's consciousness to beliefs for which one has no sensory evidence or rational proof."
"To embrace faith is to abandon reason."
Also, nothing in my life has occured that I consider mysterious or without explination.
The closest I can think of is the time after a party I saw a strange light in the sky that lasted for several hours. I don't know what it was, but this does not mean it was unexplainable. I simply lacked information at the time that would have explained the light I saw...possibly a satellite was launched or possibly a meteor.
Faith is belief without, or in spite of, REASON. I will not accept the existence of god or any other "mysterious force" on faith because I completely reject faith as a valid method of gaining knowledge.
"Faith: The commintment of one's consciousness to beliefs for which one has no sensory evidence or rational proof."
"To embrace faith is to abandon reason."
Also, nothing in my life has occured that I consider mysterious or without explination.
The closest I can think of is the time after a party I saw a strange light in the sky that lasted for several hours. I don't know what it was, but this does not mean it was unexplainable. I simply lacked information at the time that would have explained the light I saw...possibly a satellite was launched or possibly a meteor.
It could also be unexplainable to man because man has not yet gained the capacity to understand said "things." Remember, it wasn't long ago that man thought the world was flat, so mans capacity for reasoning concerning Earth as a sphere was limited at best. Phenomenons and the unknown are just that, unknown. Being human, we have to have an explaination for everything, so if we can't say it in scientific terms...then it must be the work of the almighty.
If in 5000 years a beastily three penis critter becomes of your human form, could we say that this penis phenomina evolved from a human? Okay, seriously though.
It took me a while to respond because I was pretty much done with what we had originally talked about, but had some other ideas that I wanted to discuss with you. I don't have very much to say in response to evolutionary fossils. I could of course, find several ways to argue your comments, so as to appear to have a strong hold on my original point, but where is the intellectuality in that?
I gathered some very resourceful information from mainly your responses in this thread, which is why I created it in the first place. I still am not clear on why we havent found more fossils of half deformed humans, but I do buy into why we have so many dinofissils. So I am content and will not worry myself over the comparison between the two, as if to disprove one or the other. But to further the discussion:
1. Has human evolution ended? For several thousand years we have remained in this human form without change. Does it take more time then life can record over several thousand years for us to change? Or will we change only when the earth and it's climate does.
2. You say that one must not refute God to believe in evolution, but to believe in evolution is to disbelieve in the Bible and the notion that God created man. So what kind of variables are we talking about here. I don't think all three can be a truth.
I think to believe in "evolution" then you must believe in the evolution of earth and man and not just life form. It seems to me that if you absolutely believe in evolution, then this "God" that remains, is not the same one as depicted in the Bible, or the Bible is severely wrong and misinterpreted. In any case, I do not believe that evolution and the Bible God can both exist.
Lastly you talked about a blip being the core of the universe and the cause for everything. I want to know if you believe there is such a thing as "nothing". Absolute, and complete nothingness. Pitch black, zero matter, nothing. Because for there to be something, anything, it must have origin, a creator of some sort. And as long as there is something, unless you can explain how it was birthed from nothing, then you will always have a debate with me in regards to a higher power. Then again, maybe nothing is something in itself.
I have more, but I have been terribly busy lately. I just finished up school (14 hours a week on top of 45 hours at work) so I will have more time to talk about these issues. Thanks for taking the time to discuss these things, and bringing the thread back up. I must head to work now.
People feel free to join in on the discussion. I know it's not exactly cluster bombs dropping on daycare centers, but it will enlighten your mind at the very least.
It took me a while to respond because I was pretty much done with what we had originally talked about, but had some other ideas that I wanted to discuss with you. I don't have very much to say in response to evolutionary fossils. I could of course, find several ways to argue your comments, so as to appear to have a strong hold on my original point, but where is the intellectuality in that?
I gathered some very resourceful information from mainly your responses in this thread, which is why I created it in the first place. I still am not clear on why we havent found more fossils of half deformed humans, but I do buy into why we have so many dinofissils. So I am content and will not worry myself over the comparison between the two, as if to disprove one or the other. But to further the discussion:
1. Has human evolution ended? For several thousand years we have remained in this human form without change. Does it take more time then life can record over several thousand years for us to change? Or will we change only when the earth and it's climate does.
2. You say that one must not refute God to believe in evolution, but to believe in evolution is to disbelieve in the Bible and the notion that God created man. So what kind of variables are we talking about here. I don't think all three can be a truth.
I think to believe in "evolution" then you must believe in the evolution of earth and man and not just life form. It seems to me that if you absolutely believe in evolution, then this "God" that remains, is not the same one as depicted in the Bible, or the Bible is severely wrong and misinterpreted. In any case, I do not believe that evolution and the Bible God can both exist.
Lastly you talked about a blip being the core of the universe and the cause for everything. I want to know if you believe there is such a thing as "nothing". Absolute, and complete nothingness. Pitch black, zero matter, nothing. Because for there to be something, anything, it must have origin, a creator of some sort. And as long as there is something, unless you can explain how it was birthed from nothing, then you will always have a debate with me in regards to a higher power. Then again, maybe nothing is something in itself.
I have more, but I have been terribly busy lately. I just finished up school (14 hours a week on top of 45 hours at work) so I will have more time to talk about these issues. Thanks for taking the time to discuss these things, and bringing the thread back up. I must head to work now.
People feel free to join in on the discussion. I know it's not exactly cluster bombs dropping on daycare centers, but it will enlighten your mind at the very least.
Just to clarify: there are and were no half deformed humans. Remember, evolution is a process that occurs over time. Subtle changes may occur over a period of a thousand years.
No, it has not ended. We are indeed changing. Again, remember evolution is a process. Scientists have observed that the front of the human head is actually getting larger, and the back smaller. The reason for this is because the front part of the brain is involved in planning, organizing, problem solving, selective attention, personality and a variety of "higher cognitive functions" including behavior and emotions, while the back parts of the brain control other functions such as motor skills, vision, smell etc. As humans become smarter and rely more on “thinking” skills, the front of the brain will become larger and more powerful.
My personall belief, along with the majority of the scientific community, the next step of human evolution will actually be introduced by man himself. “Mother nature” will have little or nothing to do with this process. Without getting into specifics (since this thread is about ‘creation vs. evolution’, this idea will serve no purpose), man will use science, i.e. genetic engineering, computers, etc. to advance mankind. I made several threads in the past regarding this; I assume you have seen one or two.
Well, you’re probably right when it comes to Christianity; however, it seems very popular these days for “Christians” to dismiss certain parts of the bible as metaphors. I don’t see why ‘Adam & Eve’ or ‘god created earth in seven days’ can’t be dismissed as the same.
There is way to many contradictions in the bible for me to take it seriously, but others seem to be quite contempt with it.
That is true; evolution is change over time of everything, basically. Man, animal, earth, our galaxy, universe, etc.
Again, you’re right; the “bible god” cannot coincide with evolution, unless you pick and choose which parts of the bible are to be taken literally, as in the case with many ‘modernized Christians.’ (My uncle is a good example of a christian who believes in evolution. He goes to church weekly, prays every night etc. but also embraces science, including evolution).
Ok, a couple things: One, as I mentioned before in this thread (I think), the theory is that there never was a beginning nor an end, reality is reality, existence is existence. If this is true, then there never was a creation. If you are asking what lies beyond the expanding universe, well, I don’t know for certain. One popular theory is that there are multiple universes (see string theory). This is a question for Stephan Hawkings (I suggest you read “a brief history of time”, and “the universe in a nutshell”) who once said, “the actual point of creation lies outside the scope of presently known laws of physics”, however many scientists believe we will (soon) construct rational mathematical models based on the laws of physics which describe the creation of the universe out of nothing, the universe is described by physical laws comprehensible to the human mind.
So, basically there are really two theories here: One, the universe was born from the laws of physics out of nothingness and two, the universe has always existed and is in a continues cycle of expanding/contracting.
Regardless if we have definite answers to the “creation” of the universe, it does not suggest there is a god or creator.
I understand…I brought the thread back mainly because I was afraid it would disappear. Since the latest upgrade of the siccness, it seems threads do not stay active as long as they used to. I know this because I have searched for threads that I was able to find only a few months ago, now they seem to be gone forever.
I will add much more to your ‘nothingness’ and creation questions. It is an extremely difficult topic to discuss freely and I know I will feel much more comfortable at home with my notes to refer to. Hopefully this weekend I will dedicate an hour or two to these questions.
No, it has not ended. We are indeed changing. Again, remember evolution is a process. Scientists have observed that the front of the human head is actually getting larger, and the back smaller. The reason for this is because the front part of the brain is involved in planning, organizing, problem solving, selective attention, personality and a variety of "higher cognitive functions" including behavior and emotions, while the back parts of the brain control other functions such as motor skills, vision, smell etc. As humans become smarter and rely more on “thinking” skills, the front of the brain will become larger and more powerful.
My personall belief, along with the majority of the scientific community, the next step of human evolution will actually be introduced by man himself. “Mother nature” will have little or nothing to do with this process. Without getting into specifics (since this thread is about ‘creation vs. evolution’, this idea will serve no purpose), man will use science, i.e. genetic engineering, computers, etc. to advance mankind. I made several threads in the past regarding this; I assume you have seen one or two.
Well, you’re probably right when it comes to Christianity; however, it seems very popular these days for “Christians” to dismiss certain parts of the bible as metaphors. I don’t see why ‘Adam & Eve’ or ‘god created earth in seven days’ can’t be dismissed as the same.
There is way to many contradictions in the bible for me to take it seriously, but others seem to be quite contempt with it.
That is true; evolution is change over time of everything, basically. Man, animal, earth, our galaxy, universe, etc.
Again, you’re right; the “bible god” cannot coincide with evolution, unless you pick and choose which parts of the bible are to be taken literally, as in the case with many ‘modernized Christians.’ (My uncle is a good example of a christian who believes in evolution. He goes to church weekly, prays every night etc. but also embraces science, including evolution).
Ok, a couple things: One, as I mentioned before in this thread (I think), the theory is that there never was a beginning nor an end, reality is reality, existence is existence. If this is true, then there never was a creation. If you are asking what lies beyond the expanding universe, well, I don’t know for certain. One popular theory is that there are multiple universes (see string theory). This is a question for Stephan Hawkings (I suggest you read “a brief history of time”, and “the universe in a nutshell”) who once said, “the actual point of creation lies outside the scope of presently known laws of physics”, however many scientists believe we will (soon) construct rational mathematical models based on the laws of physics which describe the creation of the universe out of nothing, the universe is described by physical laws comprehensible to the human mind.
So, basically there are really two theories here: One, the universe was born from the laws of physics out of nothingness and two, the universe has always existed and is in a continues cycle of expanding/contracting.
Regardless if we have definite answers to the “creation” of the universe, it does not suggest there is a god or creator.
I understand…I brought the thread back mainly because I was afraid it would disappear. Since the latest upgrade of the siccness, it seems threads do not stay active as long as they used to. I know this because I have searched for threads that I was able to find only a few months ago, now they seem to be gone forever.
I will add much more to your ‘nothingness’ and creation questions. It is an extremely difficult topic to discuss freely and I know I will feel much more comfortable at home with my notes to refer to. Hopefully this weekend I will dedicate an hour or two to these questions.
Great responses! Indeed, very insightful. I look forward to reading more of what you have to say on this subject.
I didn't even know you replied (on the 22nd of June?!?) I've been waiting - I thought I checked it a couple of times and saw no responses. Weird. I don't know how much more I can contribute to the current subject (other then questions) but I want to read more. I feel better about buying books once I know a little about them.
I didn't even know you replied (on the 22nd of June?!?) I've been waiting - I thought I checked it a couple of times and saw no responses. Weird. I don't know how much more I can contribute to the current subject (other then questions) but I want to read more. I feel better about buying books once I know a little about them.