Biggie vs. 2 Pac (for probably the millionth time)

Darkshowdown · Sep 14, 2003

FATAL NYGHTMARE said:

First I was writing to Born II Die aned second
I never downed Eminem, I just said he isn't the best lyricst. And for me dogging him because he is white thats non sense. Because I have a white rapper on my label. His album "BLOOD THIRST" is dropping this winter.

P.S.
When did I ever down Eminem? Go back and read buddy!

phil · Sep 14, 2003

FATAL NYGHTMARE said:

ill vouch for you, i recall some posts many moons back where i believe you actually hated eminem. correct me if im wrong.

BornIIDie · Sep 14, 2003

Cesolito #1 said:

daaamnn, wtf is that about? this isn't even worth replying to cuz it's so ridiculous.... all i gotta say is YOU're the one trippen.

corndog · Sep 14, 2003

FATAL NYGHTMARE said:

My fault ..now what do you consider emceeing? and of these descriptions that you have selected how is eminem better than either pac or biggie? the only aspect of emceeing that i would even consider of eminem's that might compete with biggie is his passionate delivery but i don't see any other category that he can hold a candle to.

FATAL NYGHTMARE · Sep 15, 2003

Cesolito #1 said:

you put a bunch of weaker emcees in front of him saying they're better lyricists when that couldnt be further from tha truth. that'z where you downed him. i mean shit, LL Cool J a better lyricist than Eminem? if that'z not hating nothing is.

FATAL NYGHTMARE · Sep 15, 2003

corndog said:

Eminem compared to Biggie? letz see here.... better lyricz to start. Eminem'z passion sendz Biggie's to tha floor. how bout freestyling? Eminem will destroy Biggie handz down. how about dissing? no chance Biggie could ever hold a candle to Eminem. or do you want to get into control of a song? or how bout how deep they can get with songz? complex rhyming, metaphorz, similies, delivery, presence.... Biggie comez nowhere near 2Pac in any of those categories (except maybe delivery) and Eminem outshinez 2Pac in all categoriez so that right there should tell you why Eminem is a better emcee than either of those two.

keep in mind you're not debating with an Eminem fan. im just being real.

FATAL NYGHTMARE · Sep 15, 2003

phil said:

i wouldnt say hate, but i just didnt like him. i still dont like his mainstream crap that everybody hearz, i think it'z annoying and even Eminem himself sayz that shit is annoying. but it makez money. i may not like that crap, but i cant and wont deny his talent. that'z just ignorance. people do it anyway tho, as you can see.

Jon Conner · Sep 15, 2003

The thing is about Biggie and Pac is, nobody was calling them great until they died. People dissed Biggie for rapping about materlistic shit and being with Puff. Point Blank. I know alot of people who didn't like Pac either. Biggie was good but not the best. Pac was good but not the best. I admire their talent but I never thought either one of them were the greatest at any point in my life, present included. How do you compare Rakim and Pac. KRS One and Biggie. Different rappers, different eras. I think it became a fad to debate whether Pac or Big was the greatest. They both died at the height of their careers and absence makes the heart grow fonder. The further we get from the date of their death, the better people will regard their music because they wish they were still here. I am appreciative to the contributions they both made to Hip Hop but in my opinion they were great rappers who became Legends due to their early demise. Peace One Love

Zer0.MediA · Sep 15, 2003

Biggie is the better rapper, Pac was the better writer.

But I like Biggies flow better. I'd rather listen to him.

Mtn · Sep 15, 2003

Eminem better dissing? Damn.. Keeps dissing kinda weak mc's who don´t even reply to him.. Then someone tougher disses him and he aint replying.. Has he even replied to Royce? Royce kinda destryoed him and D12 in MalcomX.. And Im not hating or anything.. I think Eminem has some dope shit and he is a sick lyricist etc.. And what comes to disses in general, I wouldnt say Ems disses are anywhere near Hit Em Up etc.. for example.. I mean lyrics, flow etc.. are fucking sick but he doesnt have that feeling "Imma fuck u up" in his disses, I mean you shouldnt diss someone if you aint ready to do in real life all shit you say in songs.

Edit: Oh yeah forgot to say that this is just my opinion, everyone has own..

FATAL NYGHTMARE · Sep 15, 2003

Mtn said:

makez no difference. he could be dissing a nobody such as yourself and it would still be sick.

corndog · Sep 15, 2003

FATAL NYGHTMARE said:

Apparently we won't be seeing eye to eye anytime soon but for the sake of argument

lyrics: What eminem song is fuckin with Victory or the What?

As Far as passion I'll give you that, but keep in mind it still isn't commercially acceptable for a black man to speak passionately on anything that is noteworthy or controversial in this artform.

Freestyling: obviously you are not familiar with biggie's freestyles to say that eminem would destroy biggie hands down. there out their Look for Doowop Biggies best or Rap olympics w/ pac on Kazaa.

Dissing/Battling...The game has changed(thanks to pac) to where now there are whole songs being pointed directly at single individuals, in biggies day it was about slipping in subtle disses here and there so as far as quantity and pure opportunities for beef eminem is going to have more material. But quality wise I still gotta give up to biggie in this situation....due to the fact that after pac opened the flood gates for just cats to speak about faux violence and calling out cats kids and all that no one has came tighter than Hit'em up.

and as far as [control of a song?] You might not be an eminem fan but this makes me think you got something against Big, cuz he was always airtight.
[or how bout how deep they can get with songz?] Go back and listen to Gimme the Loot, What's Beef, Everyday Struggle, or Suicidal Thoughts
[complex rhyming, metaphorz, similies] Cunt Renaissance, Big Poppa
[delivery, presence] Ready to Die.... or even the two lines he had on Queen Bitch thats what you call the epitome of delivery and presence.
The shit that sums it all up is that biggie changed the game several times and still continues to influence this rap shit that is a pure sign that eminem is not on his level.

But like i said before all of this, it goes back to your own life experiences and what you can relate to.... How old were you in 94 and what did you mainly listen too back then?

FATAL NYGHTMARE · Sep 16, 2003

corndog said:

Eminem's style is much different, but when he does serious songz such as IF I Had A Million Dollars or Rock Bottom, he destroyz anything Biggie has ever attempted to come sick and real at tha same time with.

heard it. you obviously are not familiar with Eminem's freestylez. there'z no chance in hell Biggie comez anywhere near Eminem in this category.

"Biggies Day" wuz also 2pac's day so sorry but Biggie wuz around when whole songz were dedicated to a single person.

not a surprise.

that'z your own opinion. that wuz not a battle track and really wuznt a diss track. it wuz more of a warning.

i got nothing against Big, but i will be real with it. yea i have all of his albums and i do bump his first one occasionally, but he is not that tight of a rapper. theze dayz he'd be considered mediocre. nut riderz will disagree but lyrically he wuznt all that great. throw sum of his shit up on here and ill get sum random Eminem lyricz and Eminem'z will be sicker. guaranteed. Eminem has never been outshined on a song, he controlz each and every track however he feelz like it....

those are Biggie's "struggle" songz. Eminem has tha same shit only his go deeper. listen to tha two i mentioned above, especially Rock Bottom. try Cleanin Out My Closet, Hailie's Song, Stan. you may not like those songz but they are deeper than anything Biggie ever had.

ill leave this one alone. if you cant see that Eminem is FAR more complex than Biggie could ever be, then i cant help you and quite frankly you'd be a lost cause. this is one thing that you yourself should realize. i dont think anyone out there is shittin on Eminem in this category.

oh really? explain.

i listened to that underground shit even back then, but i also bumped that Dre and Snoop shit. i started listening to Biggie around 95, like i said before i have all his CDs and i listent o them occasionally. most CDs in my case dont even get touched cuz i have so many but i do listen to Biggie now and then. im just being real. i like Biggie's shit, but as an emcee he doeznt compare to Eminem and he is nowhere near being tha greatest of all time. sorry.

miggidy · Sep 16, 2003

FATAL NYGHTMARE said:

Ok you've lost it bro.
Eminem ain't even the best white rapper.
It's a damn shame that anyone would compare Em with Pac....

Sticking to the subject, Pac was the better rapper.
Sorry, I do not even consider Biggie to be a good rapper.
The cat sounded like Barnie the dinosour, there was no way in hell I could listen to a Barnie rap song....

corndog · Sep 16, 2003

FATAL NYGHTMARE said:

Eminem's style is much different, but when he does serious songz such as IF I Had A Million Dollars or Rock Bottom, he destroyz anything Biggie has ever attempted to come sick and real at tha same time with.

What does lyrical mean to you? I can see if you were talking about passion, but those comparisons just don't make sense.

heard it. you obviously are not familiar with Eminem's freestylez. there'z no chance in hell Biggie comez anywhere near Eminem in this category.

I think you more of an eminem fan than you are admiting to yourself....you statements are crazy.

"Biggies Day" wuz also 2pac's day so sorry but Biggie wuz around when whole songz were dedicated to a single person.
Hit'em up changed the game and then they both died. Understand?

not a surprise.

When I say quality.. i am speaking on cleverness and dynamics which is respected by all...eminem's freestyles were cute and funny but that's not ripping shit.

that'z your own opinion. that wuz not a battle track and really wuznt a diss track. it wuz more of a warning.

True that is an opinion...but I don't get you what you mean by saying that it wasn't a diss track. Explain.

i got nothing against Big, but i will be real with it. yea i have all of his albums and i do bump his first one occasionally, but he is not that tight of a rapper. theze dayz he'd be considered mediocre. nut riderz will disagree but lyrically he wuznt all that great. throw sum of his shit up on here and ill get sum random Eminem lyricz and Eminem'z will be sicker. guaranteed. Eminem has never been outshined on a song, he controlz each and every track however he feelz like it....

There is no way that with all of the references and descriptions that you could be calling me a nutrider. Are you?
I can understand that it is your opinion that eminem was tighter than big but to say that he wasn't that tight of a rapper and lyrically he wasn't that great truly exposes your hate.

those are Biggie's "struggle" songz. Eminem has tha same shit only his go deeper. listen to tha two i mentioned above, especially Rock Bottom. try Cleanin Out My Closet, Hailie's Song, Stan. you may not like those songz but they are deeper than anything Biggie ever had.

Like I said before i can understand that your life experiences make the call to what you call "struggle" and "deep" but neither of those songs can i feel more than Juicy or Everyday struggle.

ill leave this one alone. if you cant see that Eminem is FAR more complex than Biggie could ever be, then i cant help you and quite frankly you'd be a lost cause. this is one thing that you yourself should realize. i dont think anyone out there is shittin on Eminem in this category.

You said you have alot of cd's are these all eminem cds?
Have you heard of these people :Ras Kass, Aceyalone, Saafir, RBX. D.O.C. what can you mean by complexity?

oh really? explain.

Rhyming more than one word per bar. (classic eminem, right?)
All of the flossin which continues to this day Big set it off.
Dreams of Fucking an R&B bitch---this shit has been redone in so many ways from bitches flippin it to some dude recently made a song about cartoon bitches....and he most noteably made it he okay for fat motherfuckers to get they shine on.

i listened to that underground shit even back then, but i also bumped that Dre and Snoop shit. i started listening to Biggie around 95, like i said before i have all his CDs and i listent o them occasionally. most CDs in my case dont even get touched cuz i have so many but i do listen to Biggie now and then. im just being real. i like Biggie's shit, but as an emcee he doeznt compare to Eminem and he is nowhere near being tha greatest of all time. sorry.

You seem to have some strong opinions...but i cant figure out the base for what your saying...thats why i asked you what was your age in '94 and who did you listen to. The first tapes I recieved were The boogie boys and Whodini Escape. The first tape I bought with my own dough was Fat boys Crushin(i have been around for most of this shit). I was a junior in 94 and was able to see and recognize the changes that were going down in hip hop at the time. So i can recognize what this cat really did to hiphop, good or bad. Just like I can't believe that everybody on this board doesn't got love for Cougnut, Rbl and Forty....if cats werent of age or werent listening to hiphop back then they wouldnt be able to fathom how shit was before they dropped. you dig?

@miggidy what qualities does a good rapper consist of?

corndog · Sep 16, 2003

here you go

throw sum of his shit up on here and ill get sum random Eminem lyricz and Eminem'z will be sicker. guaranteed. /B]

Welcome to my center
Honies feel it deep in they placenta
Cold as the pole in the winter
Far from the inventor, but I got this rap shit sewed
And when my Mac unloads
I'm guaranteed another video
Ready to die, why I act that way?
Pop Duke left Mom Duke
The faggot took the back way
So instead of makin hoes suck my dick up
I used to do stick-up
Cause hoes is irritatin like the hic-CUPS
Excuse me, flows just grow through me
Like trees to branches
Cliffs to avalanches
It's the praying mantis
Deep like the mind of Farrakhan
A motherfuckin rap phenomenon

1994

FATAL NYGHTMARE · Sep 16, 2003

^^^^almost any Eminem song or verse will rip that to shredz homie. obviously we dont see eye to eye and never will. this is all i will say: people hate on Eminem cuz of tha "pop" type music he tendz to make to sell recordz, therefor any mediocre rapper is consider better than Eminem to those people. you seem to be one of those people. a lot of you people dont understand tha difference between just being a rapper and being an emcee. im gonna leave this alone cuz neither of theze foolz are worth this much typing. ill post sum lyricz from Eminem if you want tho....

BTW, i didnt read more than half of your response to all my responses LOL. too much reading for me right now and frankly it's not that big of a deal to me. you continue to believe wut you believe, and i'll do tha same.

mrmafioso04 · Sep 17, 2003

big aint got shit on pac. he was an adverage rapper that became 'one of the greatest' only because he had beef with the greatest if he never had beef with pac and never died he wouldnt be considered one of the greatest They both dead but big made good shit and pac made classics so you cant even compare.

NOSTRIL KING · Sep 17, 2003

Biggie had that NY flow where you don't really hop on the beat all like that - Pac had that rapid fire delivery....they both spit game, but practically everything pac said had a true lesson to it, even his bitch songs. Plus pac lived his lyrics through and through - it's not even close...Pac.

I don't like Em at ALL...Eminem is a scarey little hoe who happens to be the best lyricist in the past decade. That would probably explain why Internet Backpack Nerds and rock and roll white people defend him tooth and nail, but you never hear his shit bumpin in the hood.

miggidy · Sep 17, 2003

corndog said:

Good question, some rappers are better in other areas where other rappers are weaker.
A "good" rapper doesn't have to be good all around but has strong points in certain areas.
There are lots of examples of this if you need'em.

There's are many reasons why I don't consider Biggie to be a good rapper, he's got the boring flow typical of New York rappers,
I already mentioned his voice, he has no versatility, and his beats weren't helping him.
He might've had good or average rhymes but who doesn't?
So do poets. And a lot of cats use rhyming dictionaries.

But what do you consider a "great" rapper?
It's safe to say that a great rapper is a rapper who is good in all areas?

Biggie vs. 2 Pac (for probably the millionth time)

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