DeceptaKhan said:
some awesome and informative facts but concerning the iraq war, you really think the government is out there to truly liberate the iraqy people, the people Bush calls our friends?That money greed and power arent playing a major fucking role?
I dont believe our government is out to truly liberate the Iraqi people. Liberating the Iraqi people involved the ends of the war, not the means for actually going for war. If you check out Bush's speeches, you'll find that before the Iraqi war a lot of the rhetoric used involved a sort of realist ideology, that after 9/11 America needed security, and that security was a top priority. In a world with increasing transparency (free trade, arms reports and limitations, the UN, the EU NATO) where countries know what other count,ries are up to, there is more likely to be peace...because economics links (arguably) countries together so the cost of war is too great, and nations can actually see what other nation's militarys are upto. Yet at the same time you have nations like Iraq who do not participate, have a recent history of aggression, genocide, a 35 year long dictatorship, who may have been seeking weapons of mass destruction and were enemies of the US. In this case the reason for war was national security.
After we couldnt find WMD, our "coalition" became reluctant to participate and send troops to Iraq, and it was exposed that the reconstruction plan was more fucked up than an inbred red headed stepchild the rhetoric went into Idealistic rhetoric about Freedom and democracy and yadayadayda. Basically, the Bush Administration fucked up seriously, they attempted to mask their mistakes with idealistic rhetoric, which most Americans eat up like hot cakes, which is probably also what helped save him in the election, because he was re-elected DESPITE the Iraq war not because of it.
DeceptaKhan said:
and as for the certain european countries not backin america on the war, of course theres probably some hidden debts and connections but nothing that america hasnt had in the past, there mostly socialist countries unlike the capitalist empire.The masses of people actually have a big say in day to day events that are expressed by there government, and unlike many americans when shit doesnt go as they would like for it to go, they stand up in the masses and let the gov know they arent ok with there decicions, i know for a fact that many french spanish and german people didnt understand americas stance on the bush election because of the close win, no one really did shit the day after the elections, everyone just took what they were given and didnt put up a fight in the slightest.
The connections arent anything America hasnt had in the past, which is exactly the point I am trying to make. They are no better than us, they are not morally enlightened when it comes to political affairs. They act EXACTLY the same way we do.
There are a number of places and in recent American history the react in the masses and quite violently when things arent going the way they would like it to go. Take for example, the Los Angeles riots of 1992, the WTO riots in Seattle in 1999, the race riots in Cleveland about 4 years ago, the anti-war demonstrations in 2003 in San Francisco, Los Angeles, and DC. As far as people not doing shit, there were at least a dozen lawsuits and protests filed, mainly in Ohio and Florida regarding allegations of voting irregularities and abuses, but none were activly pursued, probly because we tend to have a very solid democracy here and there was no irregularities. The great thing about a democracy is the time for action is when you go to the polls. The 2004 elections just affirmed that the majority of Americans believe George W Bush would lead the country better than John Kerry.
DeceptaKhan said:
In europe you can find manifestations going on practically weekly at local town halls and capitals.The masses come together as a true society and work together to get answers force in hand or not. But you did bring some very interesting and itteligent facts to the table, but towards the end your thoughts on european actions were a little one sided.Aparently europe has the potential to be a bigger force then america in the near future if all goes as planned with the european consitution, even with france and netherlands giving the no
The same can be said about Americans, but from what I noticed our political dialogue tends to go on outside the town halls and into bars, coffee houses, universities and small house gatherings rather than official local, state or federal government gatherings. I think the reasoning behind this is that in general Americans dont like or dont trust their government, a nessecity to keep democracy running, and so we choose to develop our own thoughts independently of government. Basically regardless of where it happens in America or in Europe, youll notice not a lot of it ever really brings a huge change, our societies have been stabilized and existed for over 300 years now. Today Americans argue over shit like dog poop and leash laws, gay marriage and whether or not a mentally retarded vegtable can remove their feeding tube. By the way, since your in Europe, I heard that a lot of their universities and centers for learning are controlled and influenced directly by the state...while in America the cirriculum is controlled by individual professors and department heads? I read a short article on it but didnt really understand.
And yes, one day Europe could be as big as it was before, theres no doubting that...then again the more likely emerging super power will be :chinese: China :chinese: not Europe. :chinese:
