Affirmative Action

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Feb 1, 2006
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#1
Are you for or against it? I have to do a debate on it tommorow presenting the con side although I believe both sides have valid points. To be honest though I have no firm opinion on the topic.

For those who don't know, affirmative action is preferential treatment towards minorities in order to insure integration in federal funded employment and college admissions.
 
Sep 26, 2006
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#2
affirmative action is stupid. whoever is most qualified should be admitted or given the job or scholarship or whatever it is...not just because they are black, white, latino, asian and so on
 
Apr 16, 2003
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#3
It depends, I can see both sides having good points but I don't really know if it helped me since I'm mixed. And it's not necessarily preferential treatment, but a process to aid minorities and woman trying to obtain decent employment and education.
 
Feb 9, 2003
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#4
baysavage said:
affirmative action is stupid. whoever is most qualified should be admitted or given the job or scholarship or whatever it is...not just because they are black, white, latino, asian and so on
Says the boy with his naturally integrated advantage...pale skin.
 

HIM

Sicc OG
Sep 27, 2002
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Affirmative Action doesnt necessarily mean people who "arent" qualified are getting the jobs instead of people who are...Think about it, if a White employer has a white and black candidate, both are highly qualified, who do you think will most likely get the job? Chances are(and is most common) the white person will, hands down...People are more likely to hire their "own" and that is true in many aspects of life..nothing wrong with it in a sense, but it can cause a problem because our world is contuining to diversify, especially when talking about race so opportunities need to as equal as possible, which is why policies like AA were created in the first place because opportunites werent equal.

Affirmative Action doesnt only benefit qualified minorities(race specific) it also benefits women who also were denied equal opportunities at certain occupations and education...

People who oppose AA are usually those who want you to think unqualified people are getting the jobs instead, when in reality that is not always the truth...In actuality those people are just as qualified, if not more, but they arent given a chance to even get an interview or a serious consideration for those occupations, which is due to many non work related issues, such as race, gender, religion, etc..

I think this board is the last place you want to ask if you're doing a presentation on AA, because Im sure most people on here havent researched the issue and are speaking from a 1 sided point of view..

I am not going to say whether I am for it or against it because there are advantages and disadvangtes(like with everything else), but I do see why it was necessary at some point in our society...is it still necessary? Some might argue yes and some might argue no..For someone to argue it isnt necessary anymore, they would have to feel racism and sexism doesnt exist anymore, and we all know that's not the case...
 

Ne Obliviscaris

RIP Cut-Throat and SoCo
Dec 30, 2004
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@baysavage: affirmative action isnt neccesarily better treatment specifically for minorities (although it is allways talked about as such), it can also be based on economic status. Being more qualified implies that the persons who are being chosen between started out with identical oppertunities and one achieved more. this is obviously not the case. if you look at any sort of objective index of oppertunity (money the state alocates to the school attended is a good one) then you will notice that schools in poor neighborhoods are much less funded than schools in wealthy neighborhoods. so if someone who attended a poor school gets a slightly worse grade on some standardized teest (for example) does that reflect a lower ability or a disadvantage inn the education neccesary to do well on such a test?
 
Apr 16, 2003
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#8
Train1983 hit it right on the head.

DubbC415 said:
although its not perfect, its a way to help people who are disadvantanged...and truthfully, its not affecting as many white people as people like to think.
That's very true. Usually it's just another thing people like to complain about when they didn't get a job and they happend to see a minority going for the same interview. It usually ends up with heavy speculation.
 
Nov 16, 2004
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Affirmative Action is used to create diversity in an organization whether it be a company or a school. Diversity (minorities, women, homosexuals etc.) creates a competitive advantage and basically what Train and DubbC said.

The con is it can be seen as reverse discrimination.
 
Feb 1, 2006
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#10
I think affirmative action should be applied in certain circumstances only. Less qualified minorities or women, even slightly, should not recieve admission or become hired when compared to a male or caucasian or both. If they are equal, or qualify differently, then affirmative action should be considered.

I came up with some really good points while doing this project but they are all on my friends computer so I'll update this with that as well as any other valid points that are brought up tommorow.

Also I find it ironic how myself as well as my 2 partners are minorities, yet we were given the CON side to present. While the two people we are debating against are PRO and are both white. I wonder if my teacher did this on purpose...
 

DubbC415

Mickey Fallon
Sep 10, 2002
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#13
^^no ones on his case. yeah, hes for or against, but just saying ur against doesnt tell anybody anything. it kinda goes without saying that when ur talking about something like this, u explain why. otherwise, no questions matter. i could ask every person on the street whether or not theyre for or against abortion and if they just give me a for or against answer, i havent gone anywhere.

we know there will be people for or against it, but the reason why is whats important. im engaging him to explain why. theres no reason to come to his rescue
 
Sep 26, 2006
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#16
this might come off as racist or sexist, but really it isnt...and im just saying this because we had this argument in class and everyone looked at me like i was an asshole...and im tired so it might not make sense

but there was a huge fight for equality, and now that "everyones equal" why are there going to be certain scholarships for certain ethnicities? its retarded. theres tons of latino only scholarships, african american scholarships, and yes, there is scholarships i can apply for too such as the irish one i applied for senior year of highschool...theres ones for females only too...it just doesnt make sense to me that if everyone is equal, there is certain things for certain people...sorry for the disgustingly tired rambling
 

DubbC415

Mickey Fallon
Sep 10, 2002
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#17
just b/c we say that people are equal doesnt mean that theres not still institutional inequality. just look at all the different high schools in the bay area. people arent equal, in terms of receiving equal opportunities. statistically people of color have a much harder time getting into school, and when they do, a much harder time to pay for it. people of color need scholarships more than others, not just as a way of funding, but as a method of motivation. its to tell kids that think they cant afford school, that they can. im sorry, there are white kids that need it too, and there are scholarships for them, but other kids need it more, statistically and realistically. on top of of it, i know tons of people who receive scholarships that dont need it.


bottom line, its to help people get into school that have less chances of getting there. and where do a lot of the scholarships aimed at minorities come from? groups that are minority based. groups that are looking to help out people of their own kind.
 
Sep 26, 2006
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#18
i understand that...my highschool was half and half...half rich kids from woodside and portola valley and half kids from east palo alto and east menlo park...the rich kids were able to afford tutors and all that and generally got good grades...the rich kids had parents who were college graduates and the kids were motivated to be like their parents...the poor kids had no motivation and seemed like they didnt even wanna be there... (not ALL kids from the different groups were like this) so i guess to see a scholarship for someone fitting their exact description would be some sort of motivation...i dont know, im tired
 
Feb 1, 2006
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baysavage said:
this might come off as racist or sexist, but really it isnt...and im just saying this because we had this argument in class and everyone looked at me like i was an asshole...and im tired so it might not make sense

but there was a huge fight for equality, and now that "everyones equal" why are there going to be certain scholarships for certain ethnicities? its retarded. theres tons of latino only scholarships, african american scholarships, and yes, there is scholarships i can apply for too such as the irish one i applied for senior year of highschool...theres ones for females only too...it just doesnt make sense to me that if everyone is equal, there is certain things for certain people...sorry for the disgustingly tired rambling
because not everyone is equal. Even when we all become totally mixed and no one is one race, people will still find something to discriminate against.
 
Feb 1, 2006
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#20
baysavage said:
i understand that...my highschool was half and half...half rich kids from woodside and portola valley and half kids from east palo alto and east menlo park...the rich kids were able to afford tutors and all that and generally got good grades...the rich kids had parents who were college graduates and the kids were motivated to be like their parents...the poor kids had no motivation and seemed like they didnt even wanna be there... (not ALL kids from the different groups were like this) so i guess to see a scholarship for someone fitting their exact description would be some sort of motivation...i dont know, im tired
what about the poor white kids from EPA? and the rich minorities from woodside & portola valley?

That is where affirmative action can potentially be flawed. what if a poor white kid from the hood and rich minority from the burbs were competing for a job/college admission etc, and because of affirmative action the minority, who could be equally qualified or LESS qualified, gets the oppurtunity?