Not making this thread for a debate on the Bible, but I'm curious how much or how in depth a lot of y'all have studied it since a lot of people seem to know a little more than the average Joe on here.
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Mr. Samos and Mr. Samos
How much have you studied the Bible?
- Thread starter Coach E. No
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I have read from the beginning of the old to the end of the new testament about 4 times total (in completion), which still in no way makes me an expert on the book(s). Coincidentally, I became less religious over time until I was no longer religious at all. If I was to pinpoint where it went wrong for me, I would have to blame the "New Testament," as I believe that portion to be the greatest fallacy of the two. Not debating here, just stating my opinion. I would never tell someone else what to believe when it comes to religious text or their own "existence."
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Coach E. No and Coach E. No
I've tried to read it for general educational purposes, but I just can't get far.
First, basically all of the stories have been retold outside of it so many times that there isn't anything new in it.
Second, there is only so many times one can say "This is complete BS" before he gets too disgusted with wasting so much time on such a stupid book that he just can't keep going
BTW, the first reason is why I have not been able to read "The origin of species" either
First, basically all of the stories have been retold outside of it so many times that there isn't anything new in it.
Second, there is only so many times one can say "This is complete BS" before he gets too disgusted with wasting so much time on such a stupid book that he just can't keep going
BTW, the first reason is why I have not been able to read "The origin of species" either
I've only read KJB once, and then studied it for a year, a bit everyday. However that version of Hebrew/Greek scriptures IMO is translated terribly. I now read Young's Literal Translation and it's much better. And graceful with respect to Hebrew transliterated into English, and also Greek. I am not religious. One of my biggest pet peeves about KJB and a few other translations was the talk of "eternal damnation or hellfire and brimstone". A loving most merciful Elohim would never send his children to a place like that forever. And the Hebrews NEVER talked or wrote about this, this is a satanic pagan belief. A more accurate translation is "for an age", rather than "forever and ever", which is based on a clear mistranslation of a few Hebrew and Greek words. I forgot which words but you can Google them and do your own research. I always had a problem with that in the KJB and I think KJB is the most mistranslated version of the Qadosh scriptures. So personally if you read KJB, maybe try some more accurate translations. That book is terrible. 100.
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This is why you need to pick up a Tyndale, A Textus Receptus Major, Greek Lexicon and Strong's Concordance.
Well, this depends on who you're calling a "Hebrew". However, traditionally speaking, you're incorrect if you're implying or openly stating that "jews", "NEVER" talked or wrote about this and that it's a Satanic or Pagan belief. You have two school of thoughts when it comes to "hell", the School of Hillel and the School of Shammai. The difference is who goes where and for how long, but it is definitely a place and not simply one returning to the dust. You can look into them on your own time.
See above, specifically the two schools and what they teach regarding Gan Eden (heaven) and Gehinnom (hell.)
As for the KJB, it does have mistranslated parts but there are far worse mistranslated text out there.
Well, this depends on who you're calling a "Hebrew". However, traditionally speaking, you're incorrect if you're implying or openly stating that "jews", "NEVER" talked or wrote about this and that it's a Satanic or Pagan belief. You have two school of thoughts when it comes to "hell", the School of Hillel and the School of Shammai. The difference is who goes where and for how long, but it is definitely a place and not simply one returning to the dust. You can look into them on your own time.
See above, specifically the two schools and what they teach regarding Gan Eden (heaven) and Gehinnom (hell.)
As for the KJB, it does have mistranslated parts but there are far worse mistranslated text out there.
I have a good Strongs. I've found over the years that even that isn't a good reference for certain words. I'll have to look into the other ones you mentioned though. Thank you.
I definitely agree that hell isn't just returning to the dust. I do believe it is a place. I just can't subscribe to the word "hell". Ancient Hebrews did not use the word "hell" as far as I know. They used other words that were translated into hell, but I don't believe that translation to be accurate to what the word "hell" can do to ones imagination. I also don't subscribe to eternal torment. I do however subscribe to the lake, but to me it is more of a "refining" fire. I also believe that the lake of fire is something absolutely not enjoyable, and perhaps unbearable, but used to "refine" ones soul. I do believe if it is in ones power, to repent, and avoid this place at all costs, if they believe the word, and have faith in the Mashiach, that there is very little more important in life but to do this. I may be wrong, I just can't see a most merciful loving Elohim to put his children in eternal torment because they did not receive salvation and repent in their lives. What about children and people who never hear the word during their lifetime? Are they doomed because they didn't search for it or are they given a pass because of ignorance? Nobody knows. Nobody knows what happens after we die, all we have are NDE's reporting either Heavenly places or Fiery tormenting places. And I can't take someone's account on a supposed visitation to these places. With all the DMT that gets released at the time of death, they could just be tripping balls. I'm not trying to cherry pick the Bible and only believe what I want to believe, I'm just delving into questions that a lot of people have these days including scholars about what the ancients really meant and wrote about when they talked about the afterlife.
Wasn't Gehhena just a physical place outside of Jerusalem?
Anyways, sorry to ramble. I'm very interested in scripture and expanding knowledge. So I appreciate your insight. The Hebrew word mistranslated to mean hell is Sheol, and in Greek it's Gehenna, Tartarus and Hades.
I blame the Latin Vulgate and Roman Catholicism.
Sheol and Hades simply mean the grave, the place of the dead, or the pit.
Tartarus is mentioned once in the Greek texts and it refers to the fallen angels being cast there in darkness to await judgement. This could of very well of been Earth in these days.
Gehenna is mainly used by the Mashiach in the NT, and we know it was a physical place outside of Jerusalem. So I believe when the Mashiach mentions Gehenna he is simply referring to the lake. So this could mean hell depending on how biased one is, but definitely not an everlasting torturous hell-bent chaotic place where demons roam. But more of a corrective refining fire. Yahuah himself is a consuming fire.
Now, forever and ever, everlasting, eternal.
These are all mistranslations of the Hebrew word owlam and the Greek words aionios and aion.
Owlam can be interpreted two ways and unfortunately it has been interpreted wrong in most cases of the Bible to mean forever or everlasting when referring to damnation. It can also mean an age that has a beginning and an end. The KJB always interprets owlam as forever, it never considers the other meaning of owlam which is age-lasting.
Aionios and aion are the same as above. They can also mean age-lasting or the beginning and END of an age. Not just "forever and ever." However when referring to damnation, these Latin Vulgate translations somehow always translate it to mean forever. I disagree.
I'm rambling too much. Heresy have you done any studies on the proper original translation of the Fathers name and his sons name? Come to any conclusions? The closest translations I've come to are Yahuah and Yahusha.
I definitely agree that hell isn't just returning to the dust. I do believe it is a place. I just can't subscribe to the word "hell". Ancient Hebrews did not use the word "hell" as far as I know. They used other words that were translated into hell, but I don't believe that translation to be accurate to what the word "hell" can do to ones imagination. I also don't subscribe to eternal torment. I do however subscribe to the lake, but to me it is more of a "refining" fire. I also believe that the lake of fire is something absolutely not enjoyable, and perhaps unbearable, but used to "refine" ones soul. I do believe if it is in ones power, to repent, and avoid this place at all costs, if they believe the word, and have faith in the Mashiach, that there is very little more important in life but to do this. I may be wrong, I just can't see a most merciful loving Elohim to put his children in eternal torment because they did not receive salvation and repent in their lives. What about children and people who never hear the word during their lifetime? Are they doomed because they didn't search for it or are they given a pass because of ignorance? Nobody knows. Nobody knows what happens after we die, all we have are NDE's reporting either Heavenly places or Fiery tormenting places. And I can't take someone's account on a supposed visitation to these places. With all the DMT that gets released at the time of death, they could just be tripping balls. I'm not trying to cherry pick the Bible and only believe what I want to believe, I'm just delving into questions that a lot of people have these days including scholars about what the ancients really meant and wrote about when they talked about the afterlife.
Wasn't Gehhena just a physical place outside of Jerusalem?
Anyways, sorry to ramble. I'm very interested in scripture and expanding knowledge. So I appreciate your insight. The Hebrew word mistranslated to mean hell is Sheol, and in Greek it's Gehenna, Tartarus and Hades.
I blame the Latin Vulgate and Roman Catholicism.
Sheol and Hades simply mean the grave, the place of the dead, or the pit.
Tartarus is mentioned once in the Greek texts and it refers to the fallen angels being cast there in darkness to await judgement. This could of very well of been Earth in these days.
Gehenna is mainly used by the Mashiach in the NT, and we know it was a physical place outside of Jerusalem. So I believe when the Mashiach mentions Gehenna he is simply referring to the lake. So this could mean hell depending on how biased one is, but definitely not an everlasting torturous hell-bent chaotic place where demons roam. But more of a corrective refining fire. Yahuah himself is a consuming fire.
Now, forever and ever, everlasting, eternal.
These are all mistranslations of the Hebrew word owlam and the Greek words aionios and aion.
Owlam can be interpreted two ways and unfortunately it has been interpreted wrong in most cases of the Bible to mean forever or everlasting when referring to damnation. It can also mean an age that has a beginning and an end. The KJB always interprets owlam as forever, it never considers the other meaning of owlam which is age-lasting.
Aionios and aion are the same as above. They can also mean age-lasting or the beginning and END of an age. Not just "forever and ever." However when referring to damnation, these Latin Vulgate translations somehow always translate it to mean forever. I disagree.
I'm rambling too much. Heresy have you done any studies on the proper original translation of the Fathers name and his sons name? Come to any conclusions? The closest translations I've come to are Yahuah and Yahusha.
i've read enough to know i'm pretty much going to hell lol
i love nice asses and hooters.. and just because i crave big hooters
i will pay the price i suppose. I thought the gods in the clouds wanted me to be happy. I want to sin with big hooters , is that to much to ask for?
i love nice asses and hooters.. and just because i crave big hooters
i will pay the price i suppose. I thought the gods in the clouds wanted me to be happy. I want to sin with big hooters , is that to much to ask for?
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BUTCHER 206
Not particularly about the bible but a few years ago I was surprised to discover that buddhists also believe in a hell and heaven. They believe they're not eternal though, you go to either one of them for a limited amount of time before being born again.
which makes more sense to me then this talk about an eternal afterlife since eternity does not have an end nor a beginning. But if I would die tomorrow I would go to either one of these places starting from tomorrow so my stay there would have a beginning and could not possibly be eternal.
which makes more sense to me then this talk about an eternal afterlife since eternity does not have an end nor a beginning. But if I would die tomorrow I would go to either one of these places starting from tomorrow so my stay there would have a beginning and could not possibly be eternal.
Reincarnation is a hellish philosophy IMO especially if one has no control or choice over his/her new incarnation and is trapped by karmic laws. I can't subscribe to that shit, makes zero sense to me. What really gets me is, that some men believe they've been females in past lives and some women believe they've been males in past lives. It's just foolishness. Or the belief that one can reincarnate as an animal or insect, or that we as humans to become humans, worked our way up the evolutionary ladder over thousands and thousands of incarnations. It's just a dark, primitive, bondage belief IMO.
As far as eternity goes, time is only a figment of our existence in this physical plane. Time simply does not exist outside of this plane or dimension. So theoretically an eternal presence or existence could possibly exist outside of this realm and universe, and it could have always existed, meaning that perhaps when we die we simply enter back into this dimension.
It's all theory. But interesting and fascinating as fuck regardless of what our different beliefs are. They are all interesting.
As far as eternity goes, time is only a figment of our existence in this physical plane. Time simply does not exist outside of this plane or dimension. So theoretically an eternal presence or existence could possibly exist outside of this realm and universe, and it could have always existed, meaning that perhaps when we die we simply enter back into this dimension.
It's all theory. But interesting and fascinating as fuck regardless of what our different beliefs are. They are all interesting.
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Coach E. No and Coach E. No
I went to a Lutheran Kindergarten that belongs to a church (same church I had my German wedding in), where we had bible studies. Then I went to a catholic elementary school, cause my parents thought it was a better school, so I also learned that part (next to a home for orphans ran by nuns, who were also teachers). However, the few Student who were not Catholic (me included) were not allowed to go to the special church field trips that prepared our classmates for the first communion.
I then also attended and studied in the church I went to Kindergarten for the confirmation.
+ throughout my school career, I had religion class all the time.
So I know both sides (and what I learned in Religion class about Islam, Buddhism, etc.), I know the bible, and that's why I'm an atheist.
I then also attended and studied in the church I went to Kindergarten for the confirmation.
+ throughout my school career, I had religion class all the time.
So I know both sides (and what I learned in Religion class about Islam, Buddhism, etc.), I know the bible, and that's why I'm an atheist.
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Coach E. No and Coach E. No
So what do you believe happens after you die? Just simple non-existence? There's something kind of comforting about that thought.
Or, do you consider it the unknown that nobody really knows and we'll find out when we die?
I'm interested to hear your insight.
Atheism is a religion in of itself.
Or, do you consider it the unknown that nobody really knows and we'll find out when we die?
I'm interested to hear your insight.
Atheism is a religion in of itself.
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Coach E. No and Coach E. No
I've just recently started using the Blue Letter Bible website and it cross references a lot of stuff and includes the Strong's concordance. It's been a huge help for translating or getting the original meanings of the original Greek and Hebrew texts and has helped me as of late learning a lot more.
A small sample subject, I've been talking to a lot of people about "what is the gospel" of Christ and I usually get varied answers so I took to the Bible to find the best answers I could. Long story short, my old pastor mentioned "whoever calls on the Lord will be saved." If you look at the word "calls," it actually means "to put on the surname" of someone. The Bible talks a lot about how the church is the bride of Christ. If we are "calling" on the Lord to accept that He is our Savior, we are making an everlasting covenant with Him, a marriage. It is not simply calling His name, it is far deeper than that. And that is just reading deeper into the meaning of 1 word. So I agree that the translations aren't very good sometimes.
As far as hell, Jesus mentions or alludes to Hell more than He did for Heaven in the Bible. He mentions destruction, where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth, where your body is thrown into the fire, everlasting fire, everlasting punishment, etc... Can't believe in a Heaven if you do not believe there is a hell IMO.
I'm a little weary but kind of excited, I'm starting my Master's for Christian Ministry with a focus on Homiletics in a couple weeks.
A small sample subject, I've been talking to a lot of people about "what is the gospel" of Christ and I usually get varied answers so I took to the Bible to find the best answers I could. Long story short, my old pastor mentioned "whoever calls on the Lord will be saved." If you look at the word "calls," it actually means "to put on the surname" of someone. The Bible talks a lot about how the church is the bride of Christ. If we are "calling" on the Lord to accept that He is our Savior, we are making an everlasting covenant with Him, a marriage. It is not simply calling His name, it is far deeper than that. And that is just reading deeper into the meaning of 1 word. So I agree that the translations aren't very good sometimes.
As far as hell, Jesus mentions or alludes to Hell more than He did for Heaven in the Bible. He mentions destruction, where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth, where your body is thrown into the fire, everlasting fire, everlasting punishment, etc... Can't believe in a Heaven if you do not believe there is a hell IMO.
I'm a little weary but kind of excited, I'm starting my Master's for Christian Ministry with a focus on Homiletics in a couple weeks.
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Sheol and Hades are not the hell that we commonly think of. I read about that this summer and after studying it, this pretty well explained it.
What is the difference between Sheol, Hades, Hell, the lake of fire, Paradise, and Abraham’s bosom?
That website usually delivers and excellent explanation of a huge variety of subjects. I could spend hours reading that site. Obviously if you didn't believe what the Bible says at all, you'd think it was all a huge lie but if you're searching for answers of any kind, this site is great IMO
What is the difference between Sheol, Hades, Hell, the lake of fire, Paradise, and Abraham’s bosom?
That website usually delivers and excellent explanation of a huge variety of subjects. I could spend hours reading that site. Obviously if you didn't believe what the Bible says at all, you'd think it was all a huge lie but if you're searching for answers of any kind, this site is great IMO
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Mr. Samos and Mr. Samos
Good stuff. I do believe in the lake of fire/hell concept I just disagree with a few translations of the words owlam, aionios and aion when referring to eternity in punishment. Only a few bibles use eternity or forever and ever as opposed to "for an age" which is the proper translation of the Hebrew word owlam and the two Greek words aionios and aion in that context. These translations mainly used the Roman Catholic Latin Vulgate as their source. The LV happens to mention hell 111 times somehow. (Impossible unless something is mistranslated). I sense man made manipulation of words through translation to endure fear-control here. I stand strong by the proper translation of owlam, aionios and aion of "for an age". That doesn't mean one can't be in hell for a very long time, I'm sure it would seem like eternity. But this forever and ever is a powerful mistranslation that I believe turns a lot of people off of Elohims word.
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I understand where you're coming from on that, but to assume that people wouldn't otherwise be eternally condemned in this context would be rendering Jesus's crucifixion/sacrifice/resurrection useless. While those words may be misinterpreted in portions of the modern day Bible, the scriptures in the overall context of the Bible point towards the punishment of sin without forgiveness being an eternal punishment.
Also considering the language that Jesus used in regards to hell, saying that your body and soul would be destroyed in hell doesn't lend to a temporary condition. No one short of Jesus was temporarily killed in the scriptures that comes to mind. The Greek word apollymi is what is used for destroy. But as Vine's Expository dictionary expounds on, apollymi means death, but also would make sense since it refers to spiritual death, which would make sense since you would be living in hell eternally.
Here is what Vine's says:
Destroy, Destroyer, Destruction, Destructive:
a strengthened form of ollumi, signifies "to destroy utterly;" in Middle Voice, "to perish." The idea is not extinction but ruin, loss, not of being, but of well-being. This is clear from its use, as, e.g., of the marring of wine skins, Luk 5:37; of lost sheep, i.e., lost to the shepherd, metaphorical of spiritual destitution, Luk 15:4, 6, etc.; the lost son, Luk 15:24; of the perishing of food, Jhn 6:27; of gold, 1Pe 1:7. So of persons, Mat 2:13, "destroy;" Mat 8:25, "perish;" Mat 22:7; 27:20; of the loss of well-being in the case of the unsaved hereafter, Mat 10:28; Luk 13:3, 5; Jhn 3:16 (ver. 15 in some mss.); 10:28; 17:12; Rom 2:12; 1Cr 15:18; 2Cr 2:15, "are perishing;" 2Cr 4:3; 2Th 2:10; Jam 4:12; 2Pe 3:9. Cp. B, II, No. 1.
See DIE, LOSE, MARRED, PERISH.
Also considering the language that Jesus used in regards to hell, saying that your body and soul would be destroyed in hell doesn't lend to a temporary condition. No one short of Jesus was temporarily killed in the scriptures that comes to mind. The Greek word apollymi is what is used for destroy. But as Vine's Expository dictionary expounds on, apollymi means death, but also would make sense since it refers to spiritual death, which would make sense since you would be living in hell eternally.
Here is what Vine's says:
Destroy, Destroyer, Destruction, Destructive:
a strengthened form of ollumi, signifies "to destroy utterly;" in Middle Voice, "to perish." The idea is not extinction but ruin, loss, not of being, but of well-being. This is clear from its use, as, e.g., of the marring of wine skins, Luk 5:37; of lost sheep, i.e., lost to the shepherd, metaphorical of spiritual destitution, Luk 15:4, 6, etc.; the lost son, Luk 15:24; of the perishing of food, Jhn 6:27; of gold, 1Pe 1:7. So of persons, Mat 2:13, "destroy;" Mat 8:25, "perish;" Mat 22:7; 27:20; of the loss of well-being in the case of the unsaved hereafter, Mat 10:28; Luk 13:3, 5; Jhn 3:16 (ver. 15 in some mss.); 10:28; 17:12; Rom 2:12; 1Cr 15:18; 2Cr 2:15, "are perishing;" 2Cr 4:3; 2Th 2:10; Jam 4:12; 2Pe 3:9. Cp. B, II, No. 1.
See DIE, LOSE, MARRED, PERISH.