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Feb 10, 2006
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The only reason B Hop will leave is cuz HBO won't televise his fights unless he fights Kovalev. HBO has no interest in televising B Hop anyways. He will loose regardless. In my opinion, Mayweather is waiting for the winner of Cotto vs Martinez since Cotto is "independent" and Martinez is not TR. A Maidana rematch will force Maidana to be under the TMT banner which I highly doubt he will do and if so, only if he's paid $10 mill. Danny Garcia will work his way up to 147 so he's not fighting til he's ready. September is gonna suck for TMT and that's why I think a lot of fighters will stay with GBP. GB also has Espinoza managing a lot of Mexican fighters that will generate more popularity than Haymon fighters will, so GB is still in a good position no matter what.
 
May 13, 2002
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Better check Hopkins ratings on HBO they are amongst the BEST hbo ratings in the past few years. 1.8 million etc. The reason HBO didn't work with Hopkins is because of the Golden Boy beef (NO gb fighter has fought on HBO at all since the cold war).

Espinoza isn't a manager bro, he runs Showtime sports. He used to be a lawyer for Golden Boy.

Golden Boy is not in any shape or form in a good position at the moment, not without a CEO and not without anyone signed to a contract and everyone with Haymon. The only possible way GB gets bailed out is if Bob Arum really helps them out by offering Pacquiao fights to Khan or Danny Garcia, or Bradley and Marquez. Other than that though they are in trouble.
 
Feb 10, 2006
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My bad, Im talking about Frank Espinoza. He manages a lot of the Mexican boxers under the GB umbrella. They have no ties with Showtime. If anything they get a lot of shine on FS1. We can see Mares fight Donaire or Rigo. So many other fights on other weight classes besides 140-147.
 
Jul 24, 2005
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SERGIO MARTINEZ: "COTTO SAYS MADISON SQUARE GARDEN IS HIS HOME...JUNE 7TH, HE WILL BE EVICTED"
By Press Release | June 04, 2014
SERGIO MARTINEZ:

World champion Sergio Martinez believes the only reason Miguel Cotto has chosen to fight him is because he thinks he is over the hill.

The WBC middleweight kingpin puts his title on the line against the Puerto Rican legend at Madison Square Garden in New York, live on BoxNation this Saturday night, with Martinez of the belief that Cotto only took the fight because he believes the Argentine is past his best.

Cotto is attempting to make history by becoming his nation's first four-weight world champion when he makes the move up to the 160 pound division, but Martinez, who contentiously overcame Britain's Martin Murray in his last outing, says he is in for a rude awakening.

"Miguel Cotto believes that I am ripe for the picking and that my age has finally caught up with me," said Martinez. "What he doesn't realise is that for the Martin Murray fight, I had many injuries going into the fight. I did not want to postpone the event because it was always a dream of mine to defend my title in Argentina so we as a team decided to go forward with the fight with Martin Murray.

"I still came out victorious in that fight but Miguel Cotto thinks I'm on the decline, which is the only reason I believe he chose to face me now," he said.

'Maravilla' Martinez burst onto the elite scene with a stunning second round knockout over the courageous Paul Williams in their rematch back in 2010, after having captured the WBC and WBO middleweight belts against the division's then number one fighter in Kelly Pavlik.

Having gone onto to establish himself as one of the very best pound-for-pound, Martinez is adamant that Cotto will not hear the final bell when the pair clash in front of a packed house.

"I am extremely motivated for this fight with Cotto. Not just because I don't necessarily care for Miguel Cotto, but I want to prove him wrong in thinking that I'm not an elite fighter," said Martinez.

"Miguel Cotto is a good fighter and a future hall of famer, but he will not become the world middleweight champion by defeating me. The only way I see this fight ending is with Miguel Cotto being knocked out. I cannot see the fight going past nine rounds," he said.

With Cotto having started out at light-welterweight, Martinez believes that size will play a decisive factor in the fight, with this bout ranking amongst one of his biggest to date.

"There is no hatred toward Miguel, we are both professionals. I am totally focused on the fight and totally focused on the task at hand, which is beating Miguel Cotto. Miguel does not have the same power at this weight as he does at 147lbs," Martinez said.

"I am the power-puncher out of the two of us. The most important factor in this fight, though, is the level of intelligence that I will use on Saturday. I am not worried about the judges being swayed in this bout or any questionable decisions; because there is no way that this fight is going the distance.

"This fight is right up there with Paul Williams and Kelly Pavlik as one of the most important of my career," he said.

Fighting at the iconic Madison Square Garden has become commonplace for Cotto, who has only lost once there in eight occasions, and enjoyed a partisan crowd for most outings.

But, the slick southpaw Martinez is looking to follow in the footsteps of Argentine idols, heavyweight Oscar Bonavena and former undisputed middleweight champion Carlos Monzon, by taking over the grandest of amphitheatres.

"To fight at Madison Square Garden where great Argentinean boxers fought like Oscar Bonavena and Carlos Monzon is the greatest honour that any Argentinean boxer could possibly have," he said.

"The Argentinean community in New York has always been very supportive of me, and I expect an incredible atmosphere similar to a world cup soccer match.

"Miguel Cotto says Madison Square Garden is his home, but come June 7th, he will be evicted and I will prove that I am one of the best pound-for-pound fighters in the world," said a confident Martinez
 
Jul 24, 2005
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BERMANE STIVERNE'S TRAINER NOT CONCERNED ABOUT "FRAIL" DEONTAY WILDER; SAYS HE GETS KNOCKED OUT WITH HEADGEAR ON
By Percy Crawford | June 04, 2014
BERMANE STIVERNE'S TRAINER NOT CONCERNED ABOUT

"We not backing up from anybody. They say Wilder, we'll take Wilder. It doesn't make me any difference. I'm not worried about a guy like Wilder. Wilder hasn't fought a guy in the top 500. And he hasn't been past the 4th round. So I'm debating, should we take him in deep waters and let him see what it feels like or should we knock him out in the first 3 rounds? I know Deontay Wilder is getting knocked out in the gym with headgear on. Everybody telling me, so I'm not worried about Wilder. Wilder is 220 and he's 6'7". He is skinny as hell...frail," stated Don House, world-class trainer of WBC heavyweight champion Bermane Stiverne, who talked about their victory over Chris Arreola, their future plans, and much more. Check it out!

PC: Congratulations on capturing that WBC strap. What did you think of Bermane's performance?

DH: Some had the fight sort of lopsided, but I looked at it a little different. We almost knocked him out in the 1st round, 2nd round he took and then lost the 3rd and 4th because he just didn't do anything, and that's when I kind of got on his case. I said, "Man, what are we doing here? Stay off the ropes," and he said, "Hey man, I got him!" And then the 5th and 6th, that was the end of the fight. I thought he did well, but of course I'm a coach; I always want more. And we laid back with Chris. We knew Chris was gonna bring it to us, but it's always different strategies for different opponents. And we knew we didn't have to find Chris. We could just lay back and make him run into something, and that's what he did.

PC: If either guy was known as the mover in that fightm, it would have been Bermane. Were you concerned when you saw how small the ring was?

DH: Nah because the first time they had a small ring, I remember thinking, "I hope they don't think this is to Chris advantage." I was thinking great. I asked Bermane what he thought about the size of the ring and he said he loved it because now he could find him. I love small rings.

PC: He was definitely letting Chris back into the fight and you seemed concerned. Was that simply because he knew eventually Chris would over commit because he was having some success moving forward?

DH: That was him tying to set him up because I said, "B, we worked on being on the ropes," because we knew Chris is gonna bring it to you. You look at his fight with Seth Mitchell, he jumped right on Seth Mitchell, so I knew he would bring it right to B, but I knew he couldn't hurt him and I knew he was gonna get caught. Chris was never gonna get through 12 rounds in that fight. So we was so ready to knock him out.

PC: In all of the pre-fight interviews, it seemed like Chris would be more than prepared for the right hand. Was it shocking that that's still the punch that started all of the trouble for him?

DH: I think that first hook caught him and stunned him a little bit. When you start getting caught with shots and you figure out them shots hurt...that first hook hurt him and he kind of forgot about...see, Chris is the kind of guy, he will throw a punch and drop his hands on the inside, and Bermane is such a strong right hand puncher and he's sneaky with it.

PC: Both times these two guys fought, it was a lot of on again and off again. Was it tough keeping Bermane motivated through all of the setbacks?

DH: Well, you know what? That's been our whole career. Every fight is on again, off again. When we beat Ray Austin, we were gonna fight for the title and then we weren't gonna fight for the title. We had to fight for the #1 spot again. Then we gonna fight Klitschko, Klitschko didn't want to fight us, then we were gonna fight him again. I mean, our whole career has been that way. No one has paved our way; no one has bought our opponents. We've earned every color on that belt. And we did it the, I wouldn't say hard way; I would say we did it the right way.

PC: Obviously he's enjoying himself right now and enjoying the win, but we are hearing it may be Wilder or Wladimir. He may not be thinking about it right now, but as his trainer, I'm sure you are.

DH: When I first met Bermane, when I first told him I had a heavy bag in the gym, the bag was about 7 feet tall and about 3 feet in diameter and about 900 pounds. When he started cracking that bag and pushing that bag around, I had it on a rail system, I said, "You know what? You are very strong, I'm gonna teach you how to beat these Klitschkos." Now that was just a formation because at that time, I didn't think those guys would still have those belts. Every fight I trained him for was Klitschko. Every fight in between, I didn't care about. We got rid of one of them. He quit on us. I wanted to knock them out. But either one of these guys is easy. They are tailor-made for a guy like Bermane; tailor-made. I mean, look at Tyson. Tyson was a giant killer. Only problem Tyson had was with guys his size, like Evander Holyfield. But them tall boys, realistically, what do they bring to the table? If you can get past the jab and slip that right hand, there is nothing else they can do. They can't do anything else. One thing about Bermane, that boy can hit with both hands, he can move, he can go to the body like a lightweight, and he's powerful. The big boys, they are in trouble. They can't block all of that body.

PC: And when you see his physical stature, he's so bulky, I think a lot of people underestimate his conditioning, which seems to be in tact as well.

DH: Nah brother, we get stronger as the fight goes. Listen, my workout routine, we pulling tires up mountains, we running mountains, and I'm out there with him. I don't say, "Okay, I'll see you tomorrow, go run!" Nah brother, I'm out there with him. The thing about this game, and any game for that matter, when you talk about competition, it's all about being in shape. You remember when the UNLV Running Rebels used to run through everybody in basketball?

PC: Yes I do.

DH: They wasn't the best team on the planet, but they were the best conditioned team on the planet. They would run you to death. So if you see me with a fighter and he is my fighter, you better believe that he's gonna be in dog shape; if nothing else, he gonna be in shape.

PC: How soon would you like to see him back in there?

DH: November. We already talking about November and trying to get something for then. We wanna get something lined up for then. You got Wladimir talking about he wanna defend the IBF; we got Wilder crying and yelling at us. I think what everybody forgets is, when you win a title, you get to pick your opponent the first fight out. But we not backing up from anybody. They say Wilder, we'll take Wilder. It doesn't make me any difference. I'm not worried about a guy like Wilder. Wilder hasn't fought a guy in the top 500. And he hasn't been past the 4th round. So I'm debating, should we take him in deep waters and let him see what it feels like or should we knock him out in the first 3 rounds? I know Deontay Wilder is getting knocked out in the gym with headgear on. Everybody telling me, so I'm not worried about Wilder. Wilder is 220 and he's 6'7". He is skinny as hell. Now if you were Lebron James, Lebron James is a real man. What is he, 6'7" or 6'8" and he weighs 255 pounds. That's a real soldier; no fat and athletic. If we had that in front of us, I'm a little concerned, but we got 220 at 6'7"...frail.

PC: I know it's been a long hard road for you and Bermane, but you guys earned and deserved everything you're getting right now. Best of luck and congrats again. Is there anything else you want to add?

DH: Thank you for doing the interview. Like you said, it has been a long and hard road, but it's been a fun road. This is a game. We not angry at anybody. We just know that sometimes real soldiers have to go through what real soldiers go through. Now we are here, we got the belt, and we gonna do our damnedest to hold on to it.
 
May 13, 2002
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My bad, Im talking about Frank Espinoza. He manages a lot of the Mexican boxers under the GB umbrella. They have no ties with Showtime. If anything they get a lot of shine on FS1. We can see Mares fight Donaire or Rigo. So many other fights on other weight classes besides 140-147.
Mares recently signed with Al Haymon. Again, it's not clear what all these Haymon fighters are gonna do at the moment.
 
May 13, 2002
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Bob Arum: "Froch-Chavez Jr. is definitely HBO PPV", in talks for November
US promoter Bob Arum, who handles Chavez Jr, has admitted WBA and IBF world super middleweight champion Froch's spectacular knockout of George Groves at Wembley caught America's attention:

Arum said: "Carl versus Julio would be big in Vegas and definitely a pay-per-view event on HBO television."

A Froch-Chavez bout would likely bring in more than $50 million (£29m) in pay-per-view revenue from America and Britain as well as the gate receipts at the MGM Grand Garden Arena.

Arum has already opened talks with American network HBO about a Froch-Chavez fight, with November an early projected date.

Chavez himself has given the green light, saying: "A fight with Froch would be huge. I am already looking forward to it happening."

Source: espn uk
 
Jul 24, 2005
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Arum, Marquez To Meet Thursday About Pacquiao 5 Fight

By Keith Idec

NEW YORK – If Juan Manuel Marquez truly isn’t interested in a fifth fight against Manny Pacquiao, promoter Bob Arum wants to hear it from Marquez himself.
The Mexican legend is scheduled to arrive in Manhattan on Thursday to discuss the possibility of Pacquiao-Marquez V with Arum and his braintrust at Top Rank Inc. Pacquiao plans to fight again in November in Macau, China, and the 40-year-old

Marquez is the Filipino superstar’s primary target. Pacquiao (56-5-2, 38 KOs) wants nothing more than to avenge his devastating one-punch, sixth-round knockout loss to Marquez (56-7-1, 40 KOs) in December 2012.
Marquez, however, has been reluctant to face Pacquiao again because, despite the obvious financial benefits, he knows he cannot place a more pulverizing punctuation mark on their rivarly than he did nearly 18 months ago. It’s up to Arum to convince Marquez otherwise, though Marquez might price himself out of a fifth fight even if Marquez ultimately decides he wants to do it.
“Marquez will be here tomorrow,” Arum said Wednesday before a news conference at

Madison Square Garden for the Sergio Martinez-Miguel Cotto middleweight title fight Saturday night (HBO Pay-Per-View; $64.95 in HD; 9 p.m. ET/6 p.m. PT). “We brought him here. I don’t want to be racist or anything, because it’s not racist. But you can’t really talk to a Mexican on a phone about a deal. You’ve got to sit him in front of you; you’ve got to look at his face. That’s pretty much with all people, but particularly with Mexicans, particularly if there’s a language barrier – even though he can speak English. So until I can see really where he is going or thinking, I’m as lost as anybody.”

If Marquez won’t fight Pacquiao again, Arum mentioned Philadelphia’s Danny Garcia (28-0, 16 KOs), the winner of the June 14 WBO junior welterweight title bout at Barclays Center between Russia’s Ruslan Provodnikov (23-2, 16 KOs) and Huntington, N.Y.’s Chris Algieri (19-0, 8 KOs), Argentina’s Carlos Abregu (36-1, 29 KOs) and “some of Oscar’s guys, who he may or may not have, who might be available” as possible alternatives. Garcia also falls into the category of the Al Haymon-managed fighters Oscar [De La Hoya] may or may not have under contract now that Golden Boy Promotions chief executive officer Richard Schaefer has left the company.
Arum and De La Hoya put their differences aside recently and agreed to start co-promoting bouts that make sense for boxing’s two most prominent promotional companies.

Provodnikov is represented by Philadelphia-based Banner Promotions. Algieri is promoted by Joe DeGuardia’s Star Boxing. Abregu is promoted by Top Rank.
 
Feb 10, 2006
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2-0-Sixx @2-0-Sixx boxrec and other sites have Mares under Espinoza. Plus Canelo just came out saying the moves don't affect him at all. GBP will be fine
 
May 13, 2002
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Yeah Canelo is one of the few guys with Golden Boy. I might be wrong about Mares but he's not a draw anyways. Honestly, Oscar himself even said he doesn't know who has under contract.

We do know these guys are with Al Haymon, either as manager or "advisor", who has an actual contract with GB only a few and it's unclear who:

Chris Arreola
Deontay Wilder
Seth Mitchell
Dominic Breazeale
Gerald Washington
Antonio Tarver
Adonis Stevenson
Chad Dawson
Beibut Shumenov
Marcus Browne
Enrique Ornelas
Thomas Williams, Jr.
Librado Andrade
Edwin Rodriguez
Sakio Bika
Anthony Dirrell
Dominic Wade
Peter Quillin
Daniel Jacobs
Terrell Gausha
Jermain Taylor
J’Leon Love
Chris Pearson
Austin Trout
Jermell Charlo
Jermall Charlo
Erislandy Lara
Alfredo Angulo
Demetrius Andrade+
Fernando Guerrero
Ronald Hearns
Julian Williams
Prichard Colon
Denis Douglin
Daquan Arnett
Kareem Martin
Floyd Mayweather
Devon Alexander
Keith Thurman
Marcos Maidana
Shawn Porter
Paulie Malignaggi
Andre Berto
Luis Collazo
Victor Ortiz
Errol Spence, Jr.
Amir Khan*
Robert Guerrero
Semajay Thomas
Danny Garcia
Lucas Matthysse
Lamont Peterson
Josesito Lopez
Jamel Herring
Anthony Peterson
John Molina
Omar Figueroa
Robert Easter, Jr.
Rances Barthelemy
Rico Ramos
Gervonta Davis
Gary Russell, Jr.
Leo Santa Cruz
Rau’shee Warren
 
Jul 24, 2005
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ABNER MARES SET TO SIGN WITH AL HAYMON
By Ben Thompson | June 05, 2014
ABNER MARES SET TO SIGN WITH AL HAYMON

Sources close to the information have informed us that former WBC featherweight champion Abner Mares is on the verge of signing with influential adviser Al Haymon. Mares would join former welterweight champion Luis Collazo and light heavyweight champion Adonis Stevenson as the newest additions to Haymon's rapidly growing stable of fighters, which already includes Floyd Mayweather, Danny Garcia, Adrien Broner, Marcos Maidana, Lucas Matthysse, Devon Alexander, Peter Quillin, Leo Santa Cruz, Gary Russell Jr., Austin Trout, Erislandy Lara, Andre Berto, Sakio Bika, Chris Arreola, Deontay Wilder, and Edwin Rodriguez, just to name a few.

Mares will be looking to rebound after suffering the first loss of his career when he makes his return to the ring on the July 12 undercard of Canelo vs. Lara.
 
Jul 24, 2005
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WHO IS, WHO IS NOT, AND WHO WON'T BE A GOLDEN BOY FIGHTER
By Ben Thompson | June 06, 2014
WHO IS, WHO IS NOT, AND WHO WON'T BE A GOLDEN BOY FIGHTER

Following the recent departure of former CEO Richard Schaefer, there's been much confusion about who is and who is not a Golden Boy Promotions fighter. Currently, the company's website lists 78 active fighters on their roster. While that sounds impressive, there's a small catch...some of those 78 fighters are not formally signed to contracts with Golden Boy Promotions. At least a third of their roster is advised by Al Haymon, and the vast majority of his fighters are promotional free agents. Golden Boy Promotions President Oscar De La Hoya must now figure out which fighters are his, which fighters are not, and which fighters are near the end of their contracts.

While some of Haymon's fighters, like Jermell Charlo, Keith Thurman, and Gary Russell Jr., are already free agents, several sources have confirmed that virtually all of his fighters are already approaching the end of their contracts and currently have no plans of resigning with Golden Boy Promotions. That includes fighters like Devon Alexander, whose final fight with Golden Boy will take place on June 21 when he takes on Jesus Soto Karass. To make matters worse for De La Hoya, one of his own partners, unified light heavyweight champion Bernard Hopkins, doesn't even have a signed contract with the company. Essentially, De La Hoya could soon be faced with the reality that, with the exception of Saul "Canelo" Alvarez, every major star on his roster will be gone by 2015.

Below is a list of the active fighters that Golden Boy Promotions currently has on their website. Those that are advised by Al Haymon are denoted with [AH] before their name. As previously stated, according to our sources, virtually all of them are either already free agents or on the verge of becoming free agents in the very near future. In other words, don't expect the following fighters to remain on the Golden Boy roster: Leo Santa Cruz, Gary Russell Jr., Omar Figueroa Jr., Danny Garcia, Lamont Peterson, Adrien Broner, Amir Khan, Devon Alexander, Keith Thurman, Luis Collazo, Marcos Maidana, Paulie Malignaggi, Robert Guerrero, Victor Ortiz, Erislandy Lara, Jermell Charlo, Daniel Jacobs, Peter Quillin, Librado Andrade, Enrique Ornelas, Deontay Wilder, Seth Mitchell, Lucas Matthysse*, and Abner Mares*. If you're wondering who that leaves as Golden Boy fighters, check out the list below (minus the Al Haymon fighters).

JUNIOR BANTAMWEIGHT

Ivan Morales

BANTAMWEIGHT

Cesar Seda
Randy Caballero

JUNIOR FEATHERWEIGHT

Cristian Mijares
Diego de la Hoya
Joseph Diaz Jr.
[AH] - Leo Santa Cruz
Manuel Avila
Santiago Guevara
Yoandris Salinas

FEATHERWEIGHT

[AH] - Abner Mares
Braulio Santos
Daniel Ponce De Leon
[AH] - Gary Russell Jr.
Jayson Velez
Joseph Rodriguez
Julian Ramirez
Rene Alvarado
Ronny Rios

JUNIOR LIGHTWEIGHT

Francisco Vargas
Sergio Thompson
Vicente Escobedo
Will Tomlinson

LIGHTWEIGHT

Abner Cotto
Adan Mares
Jamie Kavanagh
Jeffrey Fontanez
Jorge Linares
[AH] - Omar Figueroa Jr.
Roberto Manzanarez
Sharif Bogere

JUNIOR WELTERWEIGHT

[AH] - Adrien Broner
Antonio Orozco
[AH] - Danny Garcia
Erik Morales
Fidel Maldonado Jr.
Frankie Gomez
Humberto Soto
Jairo Castaneda
Johan Perez
[AH] - Lamont Peterson
[AH] - Lucas Matthysse
Mauricio Herrera
Michael Perez
Pablo Cesar Cano
Roberto Ortiz
Zab Judah
Zachary Ochoa

WELTERWEIGHT

[AH] - Amir Khan
[AH] - Devon Alexander
Jesus Soto Karass
Jorge Silva
[AH] - Keith Thurman
[AH] - Luis Collazo
[AH] - Marcos Maidana
[AH] - Paulie Malignaggi
[AH] - Robert Guerrero
Sadam Ali
[AH] - Victor Ortiz

JUNIOR MIDDLEWEIGHT

Alfonso Blanco
Alfredo Angulo
Eddie Gomez
[AH] - Erislandy Lara
Gerardo Ibarra
[AH] - Jermell Charlo
Phil Lo Greco
Saul Alvarez

MIDDLEWEIGHT

Anthony Ogogo
[AH] - Daniel Jacobs
[AH] - Peter Quillin

SUPER MIDDLEWEIGHT

D'Mitrius Ballard
[AH] - Librado Andrade
Marco Antonio Periban
Yamaguchi Falcao

LIGHT HEAVYWEIGHT

Bernard Hopkins (free agent)
[AH] - Enrique Ornelas

HEAVYWEIGHT

[AH] - Deontay Wilder
[AH] - Seth Mitchell

* Note: Of all the fighters currently being advised by Al Haymon, we're told that Lucas Matthysse and Abner Mares are the only ones that may actually remain with Golden Boy Promotions for an extended period due to their contract.
 

Coach E. No

Jesus es Numero Uno
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Bob Arum: "Froch-Chavez Jr. is definitely HBO PPV", in talks for November
US promoter Bob Arum, who handles Chavez Jr, has admitted WBA and IBF world super middleweight champion Froch's spectacular knockout of George Groves at Wembley caught America's attention:

Arum said: "Carl versus Julio would be big in Vegas and definitely a pay-per-view event on HBO television."

A Froch-Chavez bout would likely bring in more than $50 million (£29m) in pay-per-view revenue from America and Britain as well as the gate receipts at the MGM Grand Garden Arena.

Arum has already opened talks with American network HBO about a Froch-Chavez fight, with November an early projected date.

Chavez himself has given the green light, saying: "A fight with Froch would be huge. I am already looking forward to it happening."

Source: espn uk
Why aren't fights like this in huge stadiums???? For the life of me I can't figure out why it's always in stadiums that seat only like 17,000 people. Pac/Clottey and Pac/Margarito did like 50,000 in Cowboys stadium. With the amount of English fans making that trip over here, they could AT LEAST do that many there.