6 Ways to Subtly Distort the Meaning of the Socialist Drive for Equality

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Apr 25, 2002
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6 Ways to Subtly Distort the Meaning of the Socialist Drive for Equality
September 28, 2009 — Alderson Warm-Fork
http://directionlessbones.wordpress...-meaning-of-the-socialist-drive-for-equality/

Everyone knows that socialists think ‘equality’ is quite a good thing (although some consider such talk too fluffy and just speak of ‘abolishing classes’, but whatever). And the ideal of equality has become a widely used motif in all sorts of areas of politics. But often the way that it gets expressed, especially by liberals and social-democrats, makes it appear quite different to how actual socialism would mean it. Which, since many people’s impressions of socialism are drawn largely from such things, can then cause confusion.

So! What are the Top 6 Ways to subtly distort the meaning of ‘equality’? Read on to find out!

1) Focusing primarily on personal consumption, and not on control of production. If people own the means of production together, and control them democratically, at least a rough equality of consumption flows naturally; if ownership of the means of production remains in minority hands (private business or the state), then inequality of consumption will be stark, regardless of how many new initiatives and reforms are introduced to reduce it. More to the point, even if it were possible, being handed an equal slice of wealth by a power over which you have no control (the state or the market) is still alienating and disempowering.

2) Presenting only claims of need, not of right. The people with 50 times someone else’s wealth are not 50 times as worthy – often they are less worthy. Everything around us has been produced by thousands of people’s efforts, living and dead, and splitting it into the rightful property of various individuals would be impossible, and even then would not look much like the actual distribution. People deserve equal shares not because they need them (though that’s not irrelevant) but because they have as much right to it as anyone else.

3) Implying, by accepting any comparability with private charity, that a rich person who lets some of their wealth go to others is displaying generosity beyond the call of duty, rather than returning some of what they have usurped.

4) Talking as if equality was primarily for the benefit of ‘the poor’, some fraction of the population who are worse off than ‘the average’. The majority of the population are dispossessed by capitalism and would benefit from equality.

5) Calling for ‘redistribution’: if you need to redistribute, your original distribution was badly off, and will probably override whatever efforts at re-distribution you tack on. If the distribution is broken, then change that primary distribution, so that the basic workings of the economy produce equality.

6) Implying that equality is something to be produced by a body standing outside the rest of society and independent of the ‘normal’ economy – a body thus separating itself from society being pretty close to a state already, whatever its other traits.

Obviously these aren’t entirely separate – each one connects with the others. But I thought it might be worthwhile separating them out.
 
May 2, 2009
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THE ONLY REDISTRIBUTION I'LL BE INVOLVED WITH IS REDISTRIBUTING MY CACK TO ALL THE NEIGHBORHOOD BITCHES. THANKS EVERYBODY

GOOD NIGHT
 
Dec 25, 2003
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#3
One major misconception about Socialism is the idea that there is/would be no private property

Marx and Engels were never against private possessions or property, only public ownership of any and all means of capital production
 
Apr 4, 2006
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www.myspace.com
#4
6 Ways to Subtly Distort the Meaning of the Socialist Drive for Equality
September 28, 2009 — Alderson Warm-Fork
http://directionlessbones.wordpress...-meaning-of-the-socialist-drive-for-equality/

Everyone knows that socialists think ‘equality’ is quite a good thing (although some consider such talk too fluffy and just speak of ‘abolishing classes’, but whatever). And the ideal of equality has become a widely used motif in all sorts of areas of politics. But often the way that it gets expressed, especially by liberals and social-democrats, makes it appear quite different to how actual socialism would mean it. Which, since many people’s impressions of socialism are drawn largely from such things, can then cause confusion.

So! What are the Top 6 Ways to subtly distort the meaning of ‘equality’? Read on to find out!

1) Focusing primarily on personal consumption, and not on control of production. If people own the means of production together, and control them democratically, at least a rough equality of consumption flows naturally; if ownership of the means of production remains in minority hands (private business or the state), then inequality of consumption will be stark, regardless of how many new initiatives and reforms are introduced to reduce it. More to the point, even if it were possible, being handed an equal slice of wealth by a power over which you have no control (the state or the market) is still alienating and disempowering.

2) Presenting only claims of need, not of right. The people with 50 times someone else’s wealth are not 50 times as worthy – often they are less worthy. Everything around us has been produced by thousands of people’s efforts, living and dead, and splitting it into the rightful property of various individuals would be impossible, and even then would not look much like the actual distribution. People deserve equal shares not because they need them (though that’s not irrelevant) but because they have as much right to it as anyone else.

3) Implying, by accepting any comparability with private charity, that a rich person who lets some of their wealth go to others is displaying generosity beyond the call of duty, rather than returning some of what they have usurped.

4) Talking as if equality was primarily for the benefit of ‘the poor’, some fraction of the population who are worse off than ‘the average’. The majority of the population are dispossessed by capitalism and would benefit from equality.

5) Calling for ‘redistribution’: if you need to redistribute, your original distribution was badly off, and will probably override whatever efforts at re-distribution you tack on. If the distribution is broken, then change that primary distribution, so that the basic workings of the economy produce equality.

6) Implying that equality is something to be produced by a body standing outside the rest of society and independent of the ‘normal’ economy – a body thus separating itself from society being pretty close to a state already, whatever its other traits.

Obviously these aren’t entirely separate – each one connects with the others. But I thought it might be worthwhile separating them out.
The cloaking of socialism has been quite redundant with this administration.

The truth is Obama and his ilk subscribe to their own brand of socialism, its not a traditional form of socialism but its on par with the philosophy. If you ask me its borrows elements from Communism, socialism and Marxism.

In the end you can call an apple and orange but that doesn't change the fact its really an apple in reality, that's exactly whats going on today with the direction of the government and those who support it.
 
Apr 4, 2006
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#6
Why are these bad? Please do explain with your vast wealth of knowledge.
Of course its bad.

Making everyone suffer because a few CANT get ahead is fucking pathetic. Well thats how the government plays it off, they use "equality" as a selling point but those mentioned social and economic ideologies do ONE THING and thats empower government.

Government controlled economies don't work. Those economies are incapable of growing and if they did grow it would be the government who gets rich NOT YOU.

You ever notice under government controlled economies government officials are the rich ones while everyone else is poor?
 
May 9, 2002
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Of course its bad.

Making everyone suffer because a few CANT get ahead is fucking pathetic. Well thats how the government plays it off, they use "equality" as a selling point but those mentioned social and economic ideologies do ONE THING and thats empower government.

Government controlled economies don't work. Those economies are incapable of growing and if they did grow it would be the government who gets rich NOT YOU.

You ever notice under government controlled economies government officials are the rich ones while everyone else is poor?
And capitalism ISNT bad? It creates separation of class, for one. It also promotes imperialism. The slave trade ring a bell at all?

1) Socialism isnt a political system. Its an economic theory like CAPITALISM, which is FAILING in front of our very eyes.

2) Your lack of compassion for anyone "less fortunate" is appalling. The fact that it goes so much deeper than "do better" in your eyes is laughable. There is a reason the socioeconomical structure has FAILED miserably when you have poverty stricken communities that can NOT dig out of the hole they DID NOT CREATE.
 
Apr 4, 2006
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#8
And capitalism ISNT bad? It creates separation of class, for one. It also promotes imperialism. The slave trade ring a bell at all?

1) Socialism isnt a political system. Its an economic theory like CAPITALISM, which is FAILING in front of our very eyes.

2) Your lack of compassion for anyone "less fortunate" is appalling. The fact that it goes so much deeper than "do better" in your eyes is laughable. There is a reason the socioeconomical structure has FAILED miserably when you have poverty stricken communities that can NOT dig out of the hole they DID NOT CREATE.
Yea keep on reading the communist manifesto.

I don't give a FUCK if it separates class. The fact is it provides EVERYONE the opportunity to grow financially and most important it keeps the nations wealth out of the hands of government and in the hands of the private sector where it belongs.

Capitalism provides economic growth to those who subscribe to it. In far left economic philosophies those opportunities don't exist.

Imperialism?

Imperialism is a concept manufactured by those who hate the rich because there lazy fucking tools that expect everything to be handed to them with out doing their fair share to earn it.

Capitalism provides opportunity, Socialism/Marxism/Communism provides NO such opportunity...

See you're willing to accept your a fucking failure and are willing to give up your freedom for table scraps, ME I want to work hard and make some money.

If you don't want to take advantage of opportunity then move to fucking North Korea, you would love it.
 
May 9, 2002
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Yea keep on reading the communist manifesto.
Ive never read it. Nice assumption.

I don't give a FUCK if it separates class.
LOL..and thats what makes you a piece of imperalistic shit.

The fact is it provides EVERYONE the opportunity to grow financially and most important it keeps the nations wealth out of the hands of government and in the hands of the private sector where it belongs.
But there is NO way that it could POSSIBLY hold some people back, right?

Capitalism provides economic growth to those who subscribe to it. In far left economic philosophies those opportunities don't exist.
Because we have never experienced a Depression and on the brink of another one, right?

Imperialism?

Imperialism is a concept manufactured by those who hate the rich because there lazy fucking tools that expect everything to be handed to them with out doing their fair share to earn it.
Actrually, its quite real, as you have JUST proven.

Capitalism provides opportunity, Socialism/Marxism/Communism provides NO such opportunity...
Capitalism drives greed and imperialism, like I have already said.

See you're willing to accept your a fucking failure and are willing to give up your freedom for table scraps, ME I want to work hard and make some money.
Good for you, do you want a biscuit? I work just as hard as the next man and am very happy with my life, regardless of how much I make. Life should be mroe than money and material things. And you are living proof that money is evil in so many different ways.

If you don't want to take advantage of opportunity then move to fucking North Korea, you would love it.
You cant move to NK you dummy. Barely ANYONE can even get in there even to take some pics.

You're discrepancy in ideologies is fascinating. If someone doesn't agree with your view, then they are at the furthest end of the spectrum that you see as "shit". Hilarious. There is no way you even KNOW where i stand on anything, yet you make assumptions that far proceed that of anything even remotely intelligent. Baffling.
 
Apr 25, 2002
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The cloaking of socialism has been quite redundant with this administration.

The truth is Obama and his ilk subscribe to their own brand of socialism, its not a traditional form of socialism but its on par with the philosophy. If you ask me its borrows elements from Communism, socialism and Marxism.

QUOTE]

*head explodes*
 
Nov 24, 2003
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And capitalism ISNT bad? It creates separation of class, for one.
Why is seperation of class necessarily "bad"?

1) Socialism isnt a political system. Its an economic theory like CAPITALISM, which is FAILING in front of our very eyes.
Socialism is different from Capitalism because Socialism is socio-political economic organization that seeks equal access to resources for all members.

Capitalism on the other hand is the definition of any economic system in which the means of production is privately owned. Capitalism is simply a description of an economic system and and cannot fail anymore than racism is a description of a belief that cannot by it's own definition fail.

Capitalism doesn't seek or attempt to do anything. It is simple an type of interaction without purpose.

2) Your lack of compassion for anyone "less fortunate" is appalling. The fact that it goes so much deeper than "do better" in your eyes is laughable. There is a reason the socioeconomical structure has FAILED miserably when you have poverty stricken communities that can NOT dig out of the hole they DID NOT CREATE.
You would first need to win the argument that we have collectively defined the relationship between "success" and "failure" by the ability to eliminate poverty.

Secondly, even using your own criteria for, you would be hard pressed to convince me that we are "failing"


Infant Mortality




Life Expectancy




Homicide Rates (London Sample)




All that definitely looks like progression towards what you have defined as success.
 
May 9, 2002
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Why is seperation of class necessarily "bad"?



Socialism is different from Capitalism because Socialism is socio-political economic organization that seeks equal access to resources for all members.

Capitalism on the other hand is the definition of any economic system in which the means of production is privately owned. Capitalism is simply a description of an economic system and and cannot fail anymore than racism is a description of a belief that cannot by it's own definition fail.

Capitalism doesn't seek or attempt to do anything. It is simple an type of interaction without purpose.



You would first need to win the argument that we have collectively defined the relationship between "success" and "failure" by the ability to eliminate poverty.

Secondly, even using your own criteria for, you would be hard pressed to convince me that we are "failing"


Infant Mortality




Life Expectancy




Homicide Rates (London Sample)




All that definitely looks like progression towards what you have defined as success.
I dont have to define success nor have i becuase universally, success = financially set. Of course, EVERYONE has their own criteria for success. Maybe someone defines success as getting married and have 3 children.

So are you saying that capitalism is good? Im just trying to figure out what youre argument with me is.
 
Dec 18, 2002
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Why is seperation of class necessarily "bad"?
Because when you talk about separation of classes you are really talking about the inherent differences in opportunity for upward mobility. You are talking about whom works for whom and for what. And inevitably you are talking about which group of people exploits another.

There will always be different factors that separate people from one another but class separates people from opportunity, health, happiness, etc.

If there are an over-abundance of resources, and if the resources, once balanced, allowed more people to maximize their potentialities then why not?



Socialism is different from Capitalism because Socialism is socio-political economic organization that seeks equal access to resources for all members.

Capitalism on the other hand is the definition of any economic system in which the means of production is privately owned. Capitalism is simply a description of an economic system and and cannot fail anymore than racism is a description of a belief that cannot by it's own definition fail.

Capitalism doesn't seek or attempt to do anything. It is simple an type of interaction without purpose.
I would say this is wrong. Capitalism does many things and it is more than an economic system because it is also implicitly a social system. Capitalism actively keeps the means of production privatized. This alone creates a very distinct social organization. With production privatized there must constantly exist a working class.

In a way, though, you are correct that it cannot by definition fail. But there you must accept a strange notion of success. Capitalism succeeds quite well in appealing to human greed. It succeeds in encouraging people to exploit others for profit. It succeeds in class separation.

The U.S economy evolved into a socialist/capitalist hybrid for a reason. There is a strong socialist/communist history in this country. Capitalism, especially after the industrial revolution, was too exploitative to go unchanged.