Why Should I Believe in God?

[Vyasadeva]

Oh yeah, and the "You should believe because you have nothing to lose and everything to gain" notion is ludicrous.

God is not interested in what you believe. And believing in Him does not get you "everything". Most people I know cannot believe something they do not find to be logically and rationally true. I cannot make myself believe I am 300 feet tall, or that I will win the lotto, even though I supposedly have "millions" to gain by believing and being "right" about my belief.

It just doesn't work that way, unless your whole philosophy is sentimentally motivated (I will gain 'X' by believing 'Y'). That is an instance of encouraging blind faith, and not even giving any reason why one should do so. Same thing with believing in the lotto, ("I will gain millions by believing in my ticket.). That is an ignorant position because it infers that truth is affected by or caters to belief. The numbers will be chosen independent of all "belief" in certain patterns, and God will liberate souls when He alone decides to do so.

Telling someone to believe because of what they may gain is like selling "Get to heaven free cards". You're telling people: "Here, you should accept this even though it may or may not be true. But if it is true, boy won't you be glad you believed me??"

 

[YoungVicious]

I'd like to believe there's a God...and I think deep down I do believe there's more to this world than our life on Earth. But I cant agree with the notion that you'll go to hell just on the basis of not believing in a certain religion. If we were created by a God, he obviously created our minds the way he did on purpose. And our minds were built to think deeply and question things...our minds are also built to believe what we SEE. So why would God send us to hell for not unconditionally believing a book written over a thousand years ago? That's basically saying, "you're going to hell for using your mind the way it is meant to be used". I like to think that there's a God, a heaven, and a hell...and that your admission to heaven is based on you're personal virtues and how you lived your life...not whether or not you unconditionally believe in old scriptures that can never be proved true or false.

 

[miggidy]

Oh yeah, and the "You should believe because you have nothing to lose and everything to gain" notion is ludicrous.

I guess you missed my point.
I mean you might as well look for God since you're already expecting one life. You have nothing to loose in that aspect.

 

[miggidy]

I'd like to believe there's a God...and I think deep down I do believe there's more to this world than our life on Earth. But I cant agree with the notion that you'll go to hell just on the basis of not believing in a certain religion.

Not all religions say you're going to hell if you don't believe in God.

 

[Locahontas]

@ V...then how does a person turn belief into knowledge without hard facts?

 

[Vyasadeva]

@ Loca... What makes you think there are no hard facts??

More important than the "hard facts" themselves is how will your mind's presuppositions and prior opinions affect the way you view those facts??

For example, the atheist and naturalist all *assume* that there exists only matter. This is the foundation upon which all their beliefs rest upon. So if someone says anything to them regarding the existence of the spiritual, their presuppositions and asumptions come to the forefront of their mind and *prevent* them from objectively viewing anything (even "hard facts"), which does not fit into their previously constructed web of biases and *beliefs*.

LIke 2+2=4. This is accepted as being true, even though you cannot "prove" it to be true. It is accepted as a "hard fact", but there is no way to prove without doubt that it is 100% absolutely true. So what do we do? We *accept* it. We are *accepting* as a "hard fact" (2+2=4), something which cannot be "proven" one way or another. It's the same with God, you cannot "prove" that He does or does not exist, but the evidence completely points to an intelligent designer of the universe, just as the evidence points to the existence of unchanging laws of mathematics.

 

[Locahontas]

Okay then, how do we KNOW that what the atheists & naturalists 'assume' is not correct?

 

[miggidy]

Loca,

The truth is there right before your face, you just have to know how to look for it.

Most people close their minds purposely and interperate what they see in a different way.

As for what the atheists and naturalists assume, look at the facts.
They have only been able to interperate what's in their grasps.
Their research is limited to the physical world....

 

[Willy Jones]

Locahontas - I'll offer this to you as I see you're going through a rough time with a death and this makes us question. These are honest insights, not conversion attempts - maybe you'll find them interesting. I certainly am finding it fun to write them out to pass the time at my job - so we're helping eachother.

- I noticed your man Anarae went through a little muslim phase but left it. Sometimes when things don't go right for us, we think "What did I do to deserve this?" And sometimes the answer is honestly nothing. But I can say in retrospect - that if it wasn't for the hard times and Allah/Eloh/God seemingly "shitting on me" I wouldn't have half the know how ("game") I have, not that I have very much anyway but...you know. If I could erase my hard times in the past 5 years in exchange for the knowledge/experience/character I've gained - I wouldn't do it.

- Things aren't as they seem sometimes - in both cases of theism and atheism. Emotions and "gut feelings" aren't always correct. At one time I just "knew" that there wasn't any higher power at all because I never saw anything "out of the ordinary" or "spiritual" happen. Then some paranormal things started happening. Now, I know magical occurences and paranormal stuff doesn't confirm in anyway that there is a "god" - but it confirms that something beyond normal vision exists. Just because we can't see something doesn't mean it's not there, and just because we don't understand something doesn't mean it cannot exist. E.g. a lot of the mentally retarded still don't believe earth could possibly be round. It could not in any fashion make sense to them - no matter how many times you explain it. It's beyond their scope.

Voltaire (IQ of 200+) could see things in regards to quantum physics that you or I would call impossible. Voltaire might be able to prove that in some alternate universes it's possible for something to be in front of us and behind us at the exact same moment in time - but we would never ever be able to understand it or grasp it because it's beyond our scope.

- The false assumption that only stubborn or dumb people follow religion and that intelligent free thinkers are all atheist is just that, false. Throughout history - the highest IQ's recorded belong to religious scholars and reformers. The highest IQ recorded in a human being was 205 or 210 - it belonged to some guy named Goehrring and his writings confirmed he believed in a higher power. If it's such a primitive and basic theory - why did these men believe it to be so?

Also I can introduce you to some really stupid atheists. They're not stupid BECAUSE they're atheists, they're stupid because they do shit like play "ONLINE CASINO" sites for free - and win like 800,000 - then the site says "PUT IN YOUR CREDIT CARD TO PLAY FOR REAL" and they actually go for the shit thinking it's not rigged.

This proves they're idiots - and these same people who get took for hundreds of dollars online in these dumbass scams are the ones who tell me "How could you believe in religion. It's so obviously fairy tale stuff."

- As for "evolution" - I was researching it at one time and found that, believe it or not, the MAJORITY of scientists (even atheists) believe that Darwin's theory was dimwitted, and human beings never evolved from apes or monkeys. The modern theory of evolution - at least from a muslim standpoint - isn't in contradiction to my beliefs at all. I can't speak for christians.

- There's a lot of "scietific" miracles in the Bible, Qur'an, Vedas, and other scriptures. A lot of it is bullshit propaganda to get more converts - but some of it, at least in my estimation, is relevant.

Some sites show, for instance, the Qur'an describing a child's growth from zygote all the way to human fetus form - in realistic detail. The question is...the human embryos described in the Qur'an were not really visable without a high powered microscopes - which didn't exist at the time of Muhammad. So how did he know? Who told him? Muslims say "ALLAH INSPIRED HIM THERE IS NO OTHER WAY" - which is what I believe, but some people have some good counters and rebuttals to that. Which brings me to my point:

- There is a desire in yourself to question things - and it's your responsibilty to think about it sometimes and be honest with yourself about what you see before you. So take it slow, take deep breaths, and take it one day at a time. If you don't believe in a higher power - then it's my PERSONAL belief that one day Allah will reveal Himself to you in a way you can't deny...or "proof." If it hasn't come to you yet, I wouldn't worry about it, and I wouldn't fret too much. Now's a trying time, and especially as an emotional woman - it's not the best time for logical, critical thought for you. Who knows.

Hope that shed some insight on your situation.

 

[ReservoirDog]

Come on Locahontas, Who's your buddy?

 

[Locahontas]

@Willy...that was pretty damn good. Thanks man.

@Resevoir...you are a damn fool!

 

[ReservoirDog]

lmao, just fuckin with ya Locahontas. My advice would be to not take any religion too seriously and if possible enroll in a cultural anthropology & philosophy class in college sometime and if the teachers are as knowledgeable as mine was you'll see yourself, the world and religion completely differently... I wouldn't take anyone’s advice here as the absolute truth, I would get into college if you are not already in it and educate yourself only through those with a higher education degree such as a Ph.D. degree...

 

[Vyasadeva]

The way you know that assumptions of the position of strict materialism is false is that it says so itself.

For example, it is universally accepted by every rational naturalist or atheist that there is a "meta"physical, or "quantum" realm, which is unobservable to our sense of sight. This unseen dimension is accepted as existing without question yet it is *completely* theoretical and unprovable.

The word "meta" means "above", so "metaphysical" means "above the physical". Therefore, atheists and naturalists already accept the existence of the "super"natural (above the natural), they just use the more scientific sounding term "metaphysical". So this is the atheist and naturalist's way of saying "spiritual" realm, they say "metaphysical". Everyone is trying to figure out the metaphysical realm, and they are guessing and speculating as to what it is. There are many different sacred ancient texts which describe that metaphysical realm (spiritual world) in full and lay out the means of attaining to it. These texts are transcendental, spiritual instructions because we are actually spiritual beings illusioned in a material world. Those texts are like Beetlejuice, where the book is there for the purpose of helping the dead find their way. This is our very real condition, walking around in a dead/dream state. We are asleep even as we are awake, and what wakes us up is self-realization. We fatcually wake up when the body/mind complex is able to tap into the "self" (soul) which pervades the body, and experience the timeless bliss. These spiritual books transcend life and death and they teach us how to reach this transcendence, whereas the speculation and guesses and "beliefs" of the naturalist and atheist is based on a purely materialistic perspective and assumptions.

The mind is a material element so subtle it cannot be viewed by our gross vision. Therefore it is known as metaphysical. The material which makes up the mind is so fine it can only be perceived by another mind. Our scientific instruments can only measure the gross matter of the brain, and are unable to directly perceive the existence of a "mind". Yet it is seen that the mind changes and is affected by "time", and therefore it is material and not spiritual. The soul is the consciousness which utilizes the mind, and it is a piece of the spiritual realm, which is beyond both the gross physical and metaphysical realm.

Bhagavad-gita 3.42: "The working senses are superior to dull matter; mind is still higher than the mind; and the soul is even higher than the intelligence."

So basically, the naturalist position necessarily accepts the existence of the supernatural realm, the only difference is that they refer to it by a different name and speculate that it is impersonal noncognizant or intelligent.

Also, the assumption of the strict materialist is that life srung randomly from non-life, and that all life has "evolved" from that firsst chemical combination. Yet this is assumption has never been observed or demonstrated, and at the same time we have personal experience and evidence that life comes only from other living beings. If Locahontas is to have Babyhontas, she must be living. There is no instance observed of a baby simply forming randomly from prior nonliving materials. Such an idea is nonsensical, yet it is one of the pillars of strict naturalism.

This is why I know that their assumptions are incorrect, because the evidence points to exactly the contrary.

 

[Locahontas]

lol @ Babyhontas

 

[miggidy]

Loca,

Do the research for yourself.
The "truth" will reveal itself to you.

Depends how bad you want to know, it's pretty deep.

 

[Locahontas]

My whole thing is this. When people die, we expect to see them again when WE die. What if that's just a bunch of bullshit & we're waiting for a reunion that will never happen? I will be really pissed off. (not that I could actually be pissed off if I was dead, but you know what I'm saying)

 

[Vyasadeva]

:classic:

 

[Vyasadeva]

My whole thing is this. When people die, we expect to see them again when WE die.

But like your first question asked, "Why should anyone expect such a thing??!?" This is the same type of "belief" which does not reflect spiritual knowledge.

When a person dies, even a child can see clearly that something has left their body. The *person* who died was not simply the lump of matter, the person was the active principle, the spirit soul. That jiva, or soul, is what illuminated the body and gave it life. At some time the soul leaves the body, and at such time the body ceases to function.

So it is seen that something which is above the physical realm is present within our physical bodies, and that spiritual essence is who we really are. That is why people say such cliche things like "They are in a better place", "So and so is with the Lord now", etc etc etc. They are referring to the spirit soul of the "person" who died, but they do not even REALIZE that they themselves are also spirit souls, and the people they are talking to are also spirit souls. A person who knows God knows ALWAYS that he is a spirit soul and that every living being is a spirit soul. There is no question of "belief" because knowledge replaces it. This can happen in many ways, and most people at one time or another have the feeling of being "outside" their bodies.

Just like a person may hear or learn about riding a bike, and they "believe" they can ride it. So then they begin to ride it, and shortly thereafter they no longer "believe" they can ride the bike, they know with absolute certainty how to ride one. Similarly, spiritual knowledge is beyond all faith and belief. It is objective and transcendental.



And when we die people will see that the life force we are which resides within the skin is now gone, and they will likely say the same things about us. We are now in a better place. And so on and so on it goes.

Knowledge of God is knowing that every living being has a soul, and knowing what that soul's relationship is with the Supersoul, God. People "believe" that when they die they just "go" to heaven or hell, and that their destination is predicated on their "beliefs" while they are living.

Look at your location: "In my skin". Therefore *you* are not your skin. You are the soul illuminating it. And everyone you know who is living is the spiritual particle which is illuminating their skin. And when one of these people dies, it is observed by the wise that the spiritual particle has left from the material form according to the order of the Supreme.

The soul in the material body is like a bird in a cage. The bird wants to be free and so do we. We want to fly and be free from all anxieties, fears, dangers, doubts, ignorance, etc. We want to enjoy pleasure and bliss and love and peace, but our material cages are not able to provide this. So we decorate our cages, and dress them very nicely, or we strengthen the bars, or we relocate the cages to some nice environment, on the beach or in some beautiful area. Yet is the caged bird satisfied by these external changes? Of course not, because it remains trapped. So this is the condition of the soul within the body, and if the body does not invesitigate what illuminates it and what that principle's occupation is, then all that remains are "beliefs" and "faith". And all the belief in the world is useless to the bird unless he gains knowledge of how to get free from the cage. The answer is spirituality, not religion.

Peace

 

[miggidy]

My whole thing is this. When people die, we expect to see them again when WE die. What if that's just a bunch of bullshit & we're waiting for a reunion that will never happen? I will be really pissed off. (not that I could actually be pissed off if I was dead, but you know what I'm saying)

You've answered yourself.
It's not like you'll have a chance to be dissapointed.