Why do world leaders constantly have to pray at the altar of the Holocaust?
- Thread starter WHITE DEVIL
- Start date
If they stop blowing up pizza shops, gunning down school kids and randomly launching mortars and rockets at civilians I may find a little sympathy. Even then probably not.
From the very beginning of self-rule in that land (in the late 1940's) the jews accepted a two state solution. The arabs rejected it and went to war. They lost and they need to get over it. Had the arabs won, I doubt you'd see a shitload of Jews sitting around in refugee camps 60 years later. They would have either been eradicated by the arabs or accepted the loss and moved on.
I do feel for any kids born into any fucked up situation. I'd think that the parents of these kids would improve the situation of future generations if they stopped instilling blind hatred and quit idolizing "martyrs". (I put martyrs in quotes because what I really mean is "dumb fucking thugs that kill children and themselves at the same time")
From the very beginning of self-rule in that land (in the late 1940's) the jews accepted a two state solution. The arabs rejected it and went to war. They lost and they need to get over it. Had the arabs won, I doubt you'd see a shitload of Jews sitting around in refugee camps 60 years later. They would have either been eradicated by the arabs or accepted the loss and moved on.
I do feel for any kids born into any fucked up situation. I'd think that the parents of these kids would improve the situation of future generations if they stopped instilling blind hatred and quit idolizing "martyrs". (I put martyrs in quotes because what I really mean is "dumb fucking thugs that kill children and themselves at the same time")
True... Maybe because they don't look like us (typical american/european) so no one really gives a fuck? Or maybe it wasn't a plan to eliminate an entire race (or was it?).
Or maybe because there were seemingly a lot of pictures of what Hitler did and many survivors moving to the US. They were able to tell their stories etc. Plus american soldiers seeing shit first hand and later writing books, etc.
Or maybe because there were seemingly a lot of pictures of what Hitler did and many survivors moving to the US. They were able to tell their stories etc. Plus american soldiers seeing shit first hand and later writing books, etc.
I agree with a lot of what you said. Something a close mentor told me was "until it stops being about 'your grandfather killed my grandfather' and 'your grandfather bombed my grandfather's house'" the conflict will continue to perpetuate. And anyone who sees it as one side's fault is being illogical. The conflict is based on looking backward and not looking forward, it always has been, and until it grows into what is best for peoples children, it always will be and there will never be peace. Hubris is a cardinal sin. I agree with your comment on terrorism as well. But I think you should take a peak at some of the videos posted here about the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. There's a lot more too it than face value and the only two state solution the Jews have ever agreed to is a peaceful and prosperous Israel surrounding, dividing and stopping the free movement of Palestinians.
How many suicide bombings would be a tolerable number for the sake of "free movement" for a people who openly call for your destruction? If it was my country the answer would be zero.
Post up some links if you got em.
I don't want to see some student films about the evils of Israeli imperialism or some Noam Chomsky hit piece. Just some shit that at least makes an attempt to seem unbiased.
Back when I was all super rebellious and anti-US government (still am for the most part), I was also anti-israel. I didn't have a reason other than because they were similar to the US. I downloaded "50 years war Israel and the Arabs" a PBS documentary thinking it would show all the fucked up shit that I was confidant that Israel was doing. Turns out that for the most part Israel wasn't as fucked up as I was hoping they'd be. Some bad shit was done by both sides for sure, but they were hardly the monsters that the Palestinians try to paint them as.
Here's a link to it, shit's like 4 hours long so you've pretty much got to be REALLY interested in the subject matter. Plus it's on youtube in segments so it'll be a pain to watch. Still it's some interesting shit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5CIjZw3vF4
Post up some links if you got em.
I don't want to see some student films about the evils of Israeli imperialism or some Noam Chomsky hit piece. Just some shit that at least makes an attempt to seem unbiased.
Back when I was all super rebellious and anti-US government (still am for the most part), I was also anti-israel. I didn't have a reason other than because they were similar to the US. I downloaded "50 years war Israel and the Arabs" a PBS documentary thinking it would show all the fucked up shit that I was confidant that Israel was doing. Turns out that for the most part Israel wasn't as fucked up as I was hoping they'd be. Some bad shit was done by both sides for sure, but they were hardly the monsters that the Palestinians try to paint them as.
Here's a link to it, shit's like 4 hours long so you've pretty much got to be REALLY interested in the subject matter. Plus it's on youtube in segments so it'll be a pain to watch. Still it's some interesting shit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5CIjZw3vF4
since there are no evidence of a so called final solution and any gas chambers for that matter one should remain very skeptic of the offical version of these events.we all know that the so called holocaust has been used as a pretext to create israel and to make things like this hapend you need lot of lobbying and a lot propganda no body can tell me that you just get handed a piece of land for suffering if so the indians and blacks would get handed half the planet.people should break ther emotional conditioning to this piece of history and look what evidence there really is.why this is inporportent is because then they no longer could use the holocoust has a tool of oppresion and maby people would understand that there are no heros and no ultimate victims in war it' just average pepople suffering and the elite making money of the bullshit.
What? Israel was just handed to the Jews? This was because of the holocaust? You sure about that or are you just spouting off some shit you heard someone else say?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britis....2C_Illegal_Immigration_and_The_Jewish_Revolt
Even without a holocaust, there would have been a large influx of Jewish immigrants after WWII. People lost their homes all over Europe.
England was broke and the natives (Jews and Arabs) were acting up, so England decided it was going to leave the area.
There was indeed a UN Partition plan. But it was never implemented. As soon as England left, the Jews declared independence and the Arabs declared war.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine
There's a whole lot of interesting stuff in there. I know reading isn't as easy as repeating shit you heard at some rally on campus, but it may help you form your own opinion.
No land was given to the Jews. Regardless of a holocaust, the Jews worked and fought for their shit. Don't take my word for it, read a few of the articles on there.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britis....2C_Illegal_Immigration_and_The_Jewish_Revolt
Even without a holocaust, there would have been a large influx of Jewish immigrants after WWII. People lost their homes all over Europe.
England was broke and the natives (Jews and Arabs) were acting up, so England decided it was going to leave the area.
There was indeed a UN Partition plan. But it was never implemented. As soon as England left, the Jews declared independence and the Arabs declared war.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine
There's a whole lot of interesting stuff in there. I know reading isn't as easy as repeating shit you heard at some rally on campus, but it may help you form your own opinion.
No land was given to the Jews. Regardless of a holocaust, the Jews worked and fought for their shit. Don't take my word for it, read a few of the articles on there.
i dont think i was very clear in my post but what i meant was simply that the holocaust has been exaggerated so it can be used as a politcal tool to justify the existens of the racist state of israel.everybody should know by now that the empty mantra of "we should never forget" is a bunch of bullshit since they at the same time tries to get rid of the palistinians . the sad fact that people have to bow down to this myth is simply absurde since there are no evidence of any mass extermination took place.there is no doubt that lot of people died in those camps but so did a lot of people during the war and it is not a uncommon thing that people get put in consentration camps during a war just look at guantanamo to day .this is not a justification for putting people in camps what i am saying is that having the jew as the eternal victim has been a very desructive and it's not just desrtuctive for the Palistinens and us other non jews it is also desructive for the jews them self.
That was the point i was trying to make but you intentionally or uninentionally chose to misunderstand me. the discussion about israels right to exist i think you can find in another thred wich i belive you are already involved in but since we are on the topic i will say this that i denounce israels right to exist becouse it is a rasicist imperialistic prodjekt that is very bad for the region.
What i also find amusing is that you try to imply that what im saying i have pickt up at some rally at some campus actully a like thank you fore those statements because it only futher shows me that you are retard obviously suffering from a classical case german guilt colmpex.
So please mr Neshani drop the guilt and stop defending rasict bullshit and if not go fuck your self!
That was the point i was trying to make but you intentionally or uninentionally chose to misunderstand me. the discussion about israels right to exist i think you can find in another thred wich i belive you are already involved in but since we are on the topic i will say this that i denounce israels right to exist becouse it is a rasicist imperialistic prodjekt that is very bad for the region.
What i also find amusing is that you try to imply that what im saying i have pickt up at some rally at some campus actully a like thank you fore those statements because it only futher shows me that you are retard obviously suffering from a classical case german guilt colmpex.
So please mr Neshani drop the guilt and stop defending rasict bullshit and if not go fuck your self!
Hah, I'm an American civilian living in Germany. I do understand that since my location says Germany it gives the impression that I'm German, so no worries. But in my case the "German guilt" doesn't exist.
You say that Israel is bad for the region, but it's the only place in the region where you can have premarital sex, drink beer, and speak out against the government without worrying that the government will kill you. That doesn't sound too bad to me.
There are racists in all nations, and of course Israel has it's fair share. Palestine has it's fair share as well. By defending either one you could be seen as defending racists as Palestinian leaders have openly called for the destruction of Israel and the Jews.
You say that Israel is bad for the region, but it's the only place in the region where you can have premarital sex, drink beer, and speak out against the government without worrying that the government will kill you. That doesn't sound too bad to me.
There are racists in all nations, and of course Israel has it's fair share. Palestine has it's fair share as well. By defending either one you could be seen as defending racists as Palestinian leaders have openly called for the destruction of Israel and the Jews.
What do I care about "geo political matters"? Not much. I'm more interested in... my interests, like sex with unmarried women and beer. I also consider women's rights to be important. Without them you end up in societies where women can't go out unless escorted by a family member. It would horrible to go out on a Friday night and there's only other dudes out.
In Israel you can go out on a Friday night and there will be hot females out and about. You can purchase and consume alcoholic beverages. And if you find a willing female, you can have sex with her without getting married. All this can be done legally. The same can't be said about most of the other countries in the region.
Admittedly these are rather small freedoms, yet I'd guess that these are freedoms enjoyed by many of the people on this web site. Small freedoms are indicators of weather a society is a free society or not. Israel's society is, while the societies of most of the other countries in the region are not free. This is why I say that Israel is good for the region.
Care to elaborate on your statement of "it is a rasicist imperialistic prodjekt that is very bad for the region"?
I know that calling people stupid is a good way to get your point across on the playground, here it just seems childish.
In Israel you can go out on a Friday night and there will be hot females out and about. You can purchase and consume alcoholic beverages. And if you find a willing female, you can have sex with her without getting married. All this can be done legally. The same can't be said about most of the other countries in the region.
Admittedly these are rather small freedoms, yet I'd guess that these are freedoms enjoyed by many of the people on this web site. Small freedoms are indicators of weather a society is a free society or not. Israel's society is, while the societies of most of the other countries in the region are not free. This is why I say that Israel is good for the region.
Care to elaborate on your statement of "it is a rasicist imperialistic prodjekt that is very bad for the region"?
I know that calling people stupid is a good way to get your point across on the playground, here it just seems childish.
first off sorry for calling you stupid i rephrase that to a little bit ignorant, and i hope you dont take it personal because i really dont know you, or have any ill fellings towards for that matter
it's just that the arguments of sex,freedom and drinking i've heard to many times in these types of discussions and i've grown tired of them.
I also think they dont cary that much weight since you have a have a whole population living in a outdoor prison with no rights.
Maby it is unnecessery for me to piont this out since you say dont care about these kinds of matters but then i really dont understand what you do discussing them.
it's just that the arguments of sex,freedom and drinking i've heard to many times in these types of discussions and i've grown tired of them.
I also think they dont cary that much weight since you have a have a whole population living in a outdoor prison with no rights.
Maby it is unnecessery for me to piont this out since you say dont care about these kinds of matters but then i really dont understand what you do discussing them.
I used sex and drinking as examples of freedom, because that's one way I determine freedom. When friends and family ask me when I'm moving back to the U.S. I generally say "Never if I can help it, I feel more free out here than in the States". I can walk down the street with a beer in my hand and ask a police man if he's got a bottle opener. Chances are pretty good that he will have one, and he'll open it for me. I can go to the bars and clubs until the sun comes up and it's all perfectly legal.
To me this feels more free than clubs closing at 2, and police arresting you if they feel like it because you've got a beer in your hand. However, if I was really into guns I'd probably hate it out here. Or if I was really into off-roading, I would feel like I was living in communist China or something.
So using my interests as a yardstick to measure freedom, I think Israel is a very much more free than the other countries in the region, and good for the region. Now if I was a Muslim I would have a different opinion. I would probably place a whole lot more value on society conducting itself according to Islamic law and would possibly prefer to feel "free of temptation" when going out and not seeing many females.
I honestly believe that the quality of life of the Palestinian people would improve exponentially if they stopped with the mortars, suicide attacks, and other attacks on civilians. Do the Palestinian people have legitimate grievances against the Israeli people? Possibly. The real question is weather fighting to address those grievances is more productive than accepting a loss and moving on with life. Once the physical fighting is over, other avenues open up like fighting battles in court (which I think would be more likely to produce favorable results than a suicide bombing would).
For example, if a corrupt police officer shoots my dog and steals my money I've got a choice. I can go to war with him, knowing that my resources are lacking (no guns, no back-up, etc.) while his resources seem endless (an armory, a police force, etc.). Or I can swallow my pride and either walk away or try to address the situation in court. Even with a high chance of loosing a court battle, I'll still have my life.
Oh and sorry about the "repeating shit you heard at some rally on campus" statement, that was out of line.
To me this feels more free than clubs closing at 2, and police arresting you if they feel like it because you've got a beer in your hand. However, if I was really into guns I'd probably hate it out here. Or if I was really into off-roading, I would feel like I was living in communist China or something.
So using my interests as a yardstick to measure freedom, I think Israel is a very much more free than the other countries in the region, and good for the region. Now if I was a Muslim I would have a different opinion. I would probably place a whole lot more value on society conducting itself according to Islamic law and would possibly prefer to feel "free of temptation" when going out and not seeing many females.
I honestly believe that the quality of life of the Palestinian people would improve exponentially if they stopped with the mortars, suicide attacks, and other attacks on civilians. Do the Palestinian people have legitimate grievances against the Israeli people? Possibly. The real question is weather fighting to address those grievances is more productive than accepting a loss and moving on with life. Once the physical fighting is over, other avenues open up like fighting battles in court (which I think would be more likely to produce favorable results than a suicide bombing would).
For example, if a corrupt police officer shoots my dog and steals my money I've got a choice. I can go to war with him, knowing that my resources are lacking (no guns, no back-up, etc.) while his resources seem endless (an armory, a police force, etc.). Or I can swallow my pride and either walk away or try to address the situation in court. Even with a high chance of loosing a court battle, I'll still have my life.
Oh and sorry about the "repeating shit you heard at some rally on campus" statement, that was out of line.
I have nothing against drinking or having sex but i dont bring in my personal defenition of what freedom is in to this discussion becouse in certain matters i like to look at things in a bigger prespective.
all i am saying is if you in some cases put your own petty wants and needs aside things can some times look a lot diffrent then you first tought it would.
all i am saying is if you in some cases put your own petty wants and needs aside things can some times look a lot diffrent then you first tought it would.