who here will vote for Ron Paul, the only honest n level headed man running?

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ThaG

Sicc OG
Jun 30, 2005
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#21
What part of what I posted above isn't clear?

Before all the "evil regulation" (that they have been dismantling piece by piece for the last 30 years which was a major contributing factor to the unfolding of the financial crisis of 2008) was passed, in the 19th century people in this country used to work 12-14 hours a day 6 days a week, sometimes 7, for wages that barely kept them alive, in appalling working conditions (for example, almost 1% of trainman in the US around 1890 died every year due to work accidents), and they could be out of job and with zero income at any time. No retirement, no social security, no state-funded medical care programs, nothing. There were a bunch of mega-rich guys, but for 90% of the population it was life in a hellhole.

It would revert to pretty much the same situation if people like Ron Paul have their way, and chances are stacked heavily in favor of the possibility that most of the people who support him, you included, would be part of those mercilessly exploited 90+% for which life would be short and brutish.

Austrian economics fails for the same reason Keynesian economics fails, which is the same reason almost all economics fails - that it treats the economy as a system existing independently of the physical world and governed by the "laws of economics", not by those of physics, when this couldn't be more wrong. The economy is a tiny subsystem of the physical world, governed by the laws of physics. If you cut the energy and resource inputs to an economy it all collapses very quickly, yet a fundamental assumption is that energy and resources will be forever and infinitely available for the economy to grow even though we live in a finite world with finite resources and limited energy flows. This is precisely the reason why the US was the most powerful nation of the 20th century - it had abundant natural resources and it exploited them to become so powerful; it is also the reason for the current crisis - now when so much of those resources is gone, it is collapsing. Austrain economists, Keynesian economics, Republicans, Democrats, Ron Paul, etc. are all in complete denial of that simple fact. You don't want that kind of people to be doing the decision making
 

0R0

Girbaud Shuttle Jeans
Dec 10, 2006
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BasedWorld
#22
You cannot fix the system by putting a new talking head in office. The system itself is broken, its like trying to solve a car's engine problems with a new paint job. Counterproductive to say the least.
 
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#23
Austrian economics allows the market to regulate itself. It a bank/corporation fails, they fail. It provides incentives for businesses to make better decisions with their money.
Government regulations hinder small businesses because of how difficult it becomes to open a business.
The system that is being dismantled is being so by the people who have been in charge.
I am curious as to who your candidate of choice is.
I'm voting for sound money, to bring the troops home and to restore constitutionality to the white house.
The only thing I can judge a politician on is their record. Like Ron Paul or not, he is very consistent and he has been for 30 years. Can't say that about any of the other candidates, Obama included.
 

ThaG

Sicc OG
Jun 30, 2005
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#27
We're not going to get anywhere this way.

I explained it twice that it is absolutely meaningless to harp on the relative merits of the Keynesian and Austrian schools of economics when whatever differences exist between the two are dwarfed by the gap between each of them and the real world.

Yet you continue to parrot about how Austrian economics allows for the market to regulate itself. Whatever, whether it does or does not, it absolutely doesn't matter, that's not the real problem, the real problem is that the very concept of markets and economy does not work when you remove the real world within which they exist from the equation.

Then I also pointed out to you that the kind of world that Ron Paul dreams of has already been realized in practice - that's what the US of the 19th and early 20th century was. It was not a nice place to live in for the vast majority of the population; sure it was good for the robber barons and those associated with them but for the average person it was not much better than slavery. And it wasn't because of too much regulation, after all almost none existed at the time and it was precisely the regulation and wealth redistribution systems that were created in response to those intolerable conditions that are being attacked now. But again, you ignore that and continue talking about market efficiency and other BS
 

:ab:

blunt_hogg559
Jul 6, 2005
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#30
Keynesian economics ruined this country? really?

now i remember why i dont come in this forum.

in regards to the topic at hand. any politician that advocates the discontinuation of the federal reserve is just plain stupid.

i'll be voting for the black guy. again. because he's black.
 
Nov 1, 2004
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#31
Yet you continue to parrot about how Austrian economics allows for the market to regulate itself. Whatever, whether it does or does not, it absolutely doesn't matter, that's not the real problem, the real problem is that the very concept of markets and economy does not work when you remove the real world within which they exist from the equation.
I don't understand what you mean. The real world is the economy. The economy exists only because people need shit. They also need money to buy that shit with. Money, according to the constitution, is gold or silver. The government used to adhere to this requirement until 1971 when the government rid themselves of the Bretton Woods system.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bretton_Woods_system

They de-linked the United States Federal Reserve notes from gold. Result? Gold prices went from $35 an ounce to the current price of over $1800 an ounce. That is called inflation. It is also called currency devaluation.
Ron Paul is against this currency devaluation, and as an effort to prevent the Federal Reserve from printing money out of thin air, he wants to link the dollar to gold.
The "Federal" Reserve bank is a private bank run by a few wealthy fucks. Blindly supporting something because it is called Federal is a bad call.
I can upload this book if anyone is interested. Shoot me a pm. It talks all about how the Federal Reserve came about.

For people who don't want to read.


Economics is the real world man, this talk of it being separated from the physical world is nonsense.

Then I also pointed out to you that the kind of world that Ron Paul dreams of has already been realized in practice - that's what the US of the 19th and early 20th century was. It was not a nice place to live in for the vast majority of the population; sure it was good for the robber barons and those associated with them but for the average person it was not much better than slavery. And it wasn't because of too much regulation, after all almost none existed at the time and it was precisely the regulation and wealth redistribution systems that were created in response to those intolerable conditions that are being attacked now. But again, you ignore that and continue talking about market efficiency and other BS
You're making it seem as if Ron Paul, if elected, will abolish social security, abolish medicare/medicaid... Yes, he is against those programs but he has already stated a plan on how to pay for them. At least he has a plan.
Those programs are unconstitutional. That is a fact.
Social security, in its current form, is the definition of a ponzi scheme.
I really think you've bought into the fear mongering of the status quo with these false beliefs about what Ron Paul stands for.

I'm not trolling or anything. This is just a subject I find much interest in. I am constantly reading on world financial news as well as political.
So, since your the expert. Who is your candidate?
 
Nov 1, 2004
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#32
Also, anyone voting for Obama again might as well just shoot their kids.

Obama hasn't fulfilled any promises. He has brought MORE war. He is Bush, wrapped up in a nice "half" black, democratic puppet body.
He will say all the right things, and then do all the wrong ones.
I supported him last election even though I didn't vote. He lied. So fuck him.

 

ThaG

Sicc OG
Jun 30, 2005
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#34
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#37
Apparently needs to be said again and again in this thread by as many people as possible.


[*]His “ideas” are devoid of critical thought, fact, or historical perspective.

Example:

He is a proponent of deregulation – government imposed restrictions upon business that he believes should be removed.

The reason much of the regulations were placed on businesses have historical basis and are due to the great deal of harm they have caused the people of this country and the world.

Regulations were imposed to prevent monopolies, curb child labor, create worker safety, protect the environment, etc, etc, etc. We all have experience or at least heard stories of businesses exploiting child labor, lack of work place safety, environmental damage, but imagine what would happen if there weren’t laws to punish companies for this behavior or at least make them think twice about doing it? That’s the way things used to be and Ron Paul in his infinite genius wants to let businesses run over the American people because he believes the market responds to the people rather than to profits. i.e. HE”S CRAZY. Read Grapes of Wrath or The Jungle – they will give you a perspective on how things used to be before there were these types of protections that Ron Paul wants to do away with.


This is why in the previous thread I said: “I disagree with almost everything he says and with EVERYTHING when his reasoning is taken into consideration.”

Because it’s a great sound bite to say “I want the government out of private citizens lives.” Hurray! Not many people can argue with that. But when you look at his reasoning behind his comments he believes the government should be out, but thinks its fine if corporations then slide in.

If you told people “Hey I think it would be a great idea to let AT&T run the freeway system in the country from now on – instead of taxes from the government they’ll send you a bill instead.” How many people would jump for joy? Not many people who’ve ever used AT&T phone service probably. Imagine if they were in charge of the roads too.

People want government out of their lives sure, but that comes at a huge cost. When given the alternative of a corporation filling that void people are equally if not more turned off. And rightfully so.

The whole point behind that sentiment is they don’t want ANYONE poking into their lives as much.
Ron Paul’s hands off business mentality would do nothing to prevent business from sliding into the voids created by a lack of government, in fact, they would encourage them.

The reason we have the massive government we have now – open to the criticisms that it receives – is because businesses have FAILED that job in the past and government alternatives HAD TO BE created to resolve the mess created.
 
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#38
I guess it really all depends on whose propaganda you believe more. The money interests are against Ron Paul, so naturally, there will be disinformation.
 
Nov 1, 2004
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#40
Why would the money interests be against Ron Paul when his proposed policies read like a money interest utopia?
His policies aren't for big business. They are for small business. Big business' are the only ones who can afford to pay for all the rules/regs required to open a business, hire someone etc.
Your fear of going back to the dark ages with Ron Paul is not valid.
Big business's love bail outs. Ron Paul does not. The corporate media, controlled by the wealthy few like the Rockerfellers, they decide what is broadcast on TV all day long. Those people are the same people spreading the misinformation about Ron Paul. It's the reason he gets less attention at the debates, its the reason he gets mostly negative TV coverage.
Ron Paul and his policies support the people and are against big government.
Funny video on that.
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/m...corn-polled-edition---ron-paul---the-top-tier