Who Can Sell 25,000 Units? Can It Be Done?
- Thread starter tadou
- Start date
^^ I was basing most of the numbers on population counts. Like Vancouver-Surrey has almost 1 million people. I've gotta believe that at least SOMEONE would be able to sell a solid 2000-2500 there alone, if they really stuck around and focused on the area, not just came there once or twice a year, ya dig? Especially if they weren't just standing on streetcorners hawking CDs, but actually had a game plan
@ tadou
The thing that you have to realize is that when you sell albums for $3 or $4, people won't want to go into the store and purchase your shit for full price. And most people that pay $3 or $4 for an album, they do it because the shit is cheap, and not really because they are interested in the music. You have to put a value on your music whether local or major. People will always look at you llike a $3 artist if they are paying that kind of money for your albums. And moving 1000 units is a task in itself. There are alot of cats out here pressing up albums that aren't even moving 500. Some of these local cats put extras on the number of units that they are selling. But if you are actually selling a solid 1000, then you are definitely doing something. THat's alot of people to get your music out to.
50K in Canada is Gold, and 100k is platinum. The numbers are alot different up there.
The thing that you have to realize is that when you sell albums for $3 or $4, people won't want to go into the store and purchase your shit for full price. And most people that pay $3 or $4 for an album, they do it because the shit is cheap, and not really because they are interested in the music. You have to put a value on your music whether local or major. People will always look at you llike a $3 artist if they are paying that kind of money for your albums. And moving 1000 units is a task in itself. There are alot of cats out here pressing up albums that aren't even moving 500. Some of these local cats put extras on the number of units that they are selling. But if you are actually selling a solid 1000, then you are definitely doing something. THat's alot of people to get your music out to.
50K in Canada is Gold, and 100k is platinum. The numbers are alot different up there.
True, but then again, the retail chain stores are the places of Record Label whores and prostitues, who work for pennies on the dollar. To survive in them is to go against everything this world, this industry and this lifestyle is setting you up for. Why even focus on Soundscan numbers? Is not a crowd of 1000 people cheering your name and screaming out your lyrics more important? Do you think when a Kanye or Chingy comes to town, that they look up Soundscan numbers, or they ask around who has the hottest stage show and is the biggest draw?
By 25K, I didn't mean, who can Soundscan 25K and be offered a pathetic, pennies-on-the-dollar contract by a greedy slavemaster record executive, and turn their whole career into a de facto Lotto scratch ticket. I mean, who is going to fill up these venues? Who is going to sell 1200 and 1500 tickets to an all ages show? Who is going to start putting out DVDs that don't take 12 months to cut through the red tape? Who is going to do the shows with 4-5 solid acts, instead of this 10 and 15 artist mess where everyone barely performs two songs before getting rushed off stage?
And what is with this, "Buy my album and stop being cheap" mentality? It is known that if an artist takes months and months to sell through his first 1000 albums shipment, and has been demanding $10 and $12 each album, the first thing they are going to bitch about is that people are not supportive and that people are greedy. This is not true.
Some complain of shipping costs. Well, what is so difficult about looking on the internet or other places for bulk supplies? 200 padded enevelopes (which hold up 3 CDs each) can be bought for under $40. Shipping on one CD is about a dollar and on 3 CDs is less than $2
Others complain of the "rent being due". And, what? Aren't you that same guy that doesn't perform live much, anyways? Are you not that same guy that uses the excuse of working to get OUT OF performing? Aren't you that same guy that has been bumming someone else's couch and food for the past who knows how many months? Now its suddenly my fault that your Lottery Ticket career didn't move you into your own house, or allow you to buy your weed and alcohol as much as you'd like?
There are those out there who say this, "Tadou, you think you know everything" banter. This is far from the truth. But what i do know is, every time i read an interview with someone like a Lil Flip or a JT Tha Bigga Figga, about how they became successful, all i ever hear is, "i did free shows", "i sold albums for cheap", "i gave albums away", "i toured and slept in vans for long periods of time" etc etc etc.......Not "I finally made these little pricks pay me the $10 an album i deserved"!
By 25K, I didn't mean, who can Soundscan 25K and be offered a pathetic, pennies-on-the-dollar contract by a greedy slavemaster record executive, and turn their whole career into a de facto Lotto scratch ticket. I mean, who is going to fill up these venues? Who is going to sell 1200 and 1500 tickets to an all ages show? Who is going to start putting out DVDs that don't take 12 months to cut through the red tape? Who is going to do the shows with 4-5 solid acts, instead of this 10 and 15 artist mess where everyone barely performs two songs before getting rushed off stage?
And what is with this, "Buy my album and stop being cheap" mentality? It is known that if an artist takes months and months to sell through his first 1000 albums shipment, and has been demanding $10 and $12 each album, the first thing they are going to bitch about is that people are not supportive and that people are greedy. This is not true.
Some complain of shipping costs. Well, what is so difficult about looking on the internet or other places for bulk supplies? 200 padded enevelopes (which hold up 3 CDs each) can be bought for under $40. Shipping on one CD is about a dollar and on 3 CDs is less than $2
Others complain of the "rent being due". And, what? Aren't you that same guy that doesn't perform live much, anyways? Are you not that same guy that uses the excuse of working to get OUT OF performing? Aren't you that same guy that has been bumming someone else's couch and food for the past who knows how many months? Now its suddenly my fault that your Lottery Ticket career didn't move you into your own house, or allow you to buy your weed and alcohol as much as you'd like?
There are those out there who say this, "Tadou, you think you know everything" banter. This is far from the truth. But what i do know is, every time i read an interview with someone like a Lil Flip or a JT Tha Bigga Figga, about how they became successful, all i ever hear is, "i did free shows", "i sold albums for cheap", "i gave albums away", "i toured and slept in vans for long periods of time" etc etc etc.......Not "I finally made these little pricks pay me the $10 an album i deserved"!
Man I will be so happy the day it happens but right now I'm just not seeing it b/c I don't know how much better the music can get, Jus Fam, SLR strictly music are in my opinion as good as anybody in the rap industry since Pac & Biggie died. DISCLAIMER And b/c I'm just a supporter, not an artist or business person, I don't have a real good grip on how the industry works but I'll just say this is what SEEMS could be the case: I don't see a major-label exec wanting to sign some rappers from the NW when they could sign a talented artist from a more established/gangster/afro-american influenced place like STL, New York, Atlanta etc. The reaction from people I've talked to from around the country when I tell them how much great music there is in Seattle is they start laughing like they think Seattle is 100% white 100% coffe drinkers 100% grunge music. I know its far from the truth but the image of the region could influence the chances these extremely talented artists up here have at breaking the bank.
Not to sound like i'm the shit but i did them numbers, i sold 20 thousand records in 1993 and to tell you how hard it was check, i was on warner bros/ rick ruben's label def american, had a video on bet, and mtv, number two song on the box for a week, went on a 2 month tour around the world. thats how hard it is to sell records famm, this game now is fucked up because cats give there music away, so that people that come with a 7/10 dollar price they bitch. Look the truth is the truth folks need to learn that if you sell shit cheap you bring the price down in music, people will not put money into your project because there is not much money coming in and to much going out, or you brake even. thats why its hard to get a record deal now. back in the days big lables would give a new artist with no name 70 to 90 thousand, and a promo budget of about $150.000, now they would pick you up only if you come with a name people already know, and that means sold records and can prove you sold them on your own. to be real you need about a budget of $150 to $200.000 to do them numbers thats real talk. and just cause you did them numbers dont mean you had a real big gross. you have to deduct the cost it took to get there.......remember this its the small market now that makes the big market want to fuck with you. cause they feel if you can make it happen so big there you can do alot of big damage to the big markets with a real budget behind you. another thang getting played on the radio is one thang, but to get the radio station to put you in there reports is another. we seattle cats always get a lil push and think we made it. ? whats 200 spins on kube with 50 records sold, thats called a flop!! get it. i wish folks stop spending money on other rappers to make you and give us you first, then we can see you spit with our fav rapper.put that money behind your shit..........cool nutz started out with his own shit and as he got people own his shit he went out a fucked with other niggas on his shit. and did not have to pay them niggas to spit, cause they was hip to him and wanted to spit with him also. thats the real.......
That's partially true right there... the simple fact is that Grunge took Seattle fast and hard. That pretty much killed the run that E-Dawg and Mix had buzzing at the time. People didn't want rap from Seattle, they wanted the next big grunge thing. That's what our city is known for - does that mean we're stuck like that?
Nope.
It's means for the NW to get some respect, somebody's gonna have to blow the spot for us again, like Nelly did with STL. It's bound to happen - I think it's pretty close to happening too. Just wait and see, or don't wait and be one of the ones that get seen first... think about it.
Nope.
It's means for the NW to get some respect, somebody's gonna have to blow the spot for us again, like Nelly did with STL. It's bound to happen - I think it's pretty close to happening too. Just wait and see, or don't wait and be one of the ones that get seen first... think about it.
@ Tadou
Some of what you are saying makes good sense. But you must realize that Nelly sold 130,000 units in Portland alone for $10+, so if you think that I am going to resort to selling CD's for $3, you are far off base. Cats from other spots are coming out here getting money that is ours. It's time for us to eat good, and stop selling ourselves short because of that BULLSHIT LOCAL title that people put on artists from the NW.
If you are truly trying to elevate your game then you will need the chain stores, and you will need soundscan. You won't have to sell 25k units to pack a club, you really only need to sell a solid 5k in the area to get people out. You will also need to have your product in the chain stores so that your fans can cop the album.
Everything that you are saying sounds good, but alot of it isn't realistic bro. We have all slept on the floor, ate top ramen noodles, and sacrificed for this shit. I don't know about you, but I bought a house with that pennies from the slavemaster record deal that I got. It really can actually be beneficial. You are still young and see things from a different stand point then what an artist in the game really goes through. Do you think that Lil Flip and JT The Bigga Figga wanted to keep sleeping on the floor? They needed those record deals, and they needed their albums in the chain stores so they could be more productive.
You speak very intelligent, but you don't have all of your facts in line bro. We have been living what you are talking about, and doing all the same research that you are making all of these assumptions about. There is a method to the madness.
People should pay $10 for SLR, Jus Family, Bow Wow, The Lac, Red Head Steve, E-Dawg, The Loco, and any other local artist that is making good music. You might sell more for $5, but the perception of the people will always be lower then the next artist that is moving units for $10. I want people to feel like my music is worth the investment, not some bargain basement shit.
Some of what you are saying makes good sense. But you must realize that Nelly sold 130,000 units in Portland alone for $10+, so if you think that I am going to resort to selling CD's for $3, you are far off base. Cats from other spots are coming out here getting money that is ours. It's time for us to eat good, and stop selling ourselves short because of that BULLSHIT LOCAL title that people put on artists from the NW.
If you are truly trying to elevate your game then you will need the chain stores, and you will need soundscan. You won't have to sell 25k units to pack a club, you really only need to sell a solid 5k in the area to get people out. You will also need to have your product in the chain stores so that your fans can cop the album.
Everything that you are saying sounds good, but alot of it isn't realistic bro. We have all slept on the floor, ate top ramen noodles, and sacrificed for this shit. I don't know about you, but I bought a house with that pennies from the slavemaster record deal that I got. It really can actually be beneficial. You are still young and see things from a different stand point then what an artist in the game really goes through. Do you think that Lil Flip and JT The Bigga Figga wanted to keep sleeping on the floor? They needed those record deals, and they needed their albums in the chain stores so they could be more productive.
You speak very intelligent, but you don't have all of your facts in line bro. We have been living what you are talking about, and doing all the same research that you are making all of these assumptions about. There is a method to the madness.
People should pay $10 for SLR, Jus Family, Bow Wow, The Lac, Red Head Steve, E-Dawg, The Loco, and any other local artist that is making good music. You might sell more for $5, but the perception of the people will always be lower then the next artist that is moving units for $10. I want people to feel like my music is worth the investment, not some bargain basement shit.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^REAL TALK.
when you compromise the price of your product for less them what it's "worth" your compromising the time, energy, Blood. sweat, and tears, and artistic quality that was put into it. why would anybody no matter what level of the game they are, want $5,000 when they could be getting $10,000. People got family's, bills, cars, kids, and not to mention overhead cost, and they don't come cheap. I say GET THAT MONEY.
when you compromise the price of your product for less them what it's "worth" your compromising the time, energy, Blood. sweat, and tears, and artistic quality that was put into it. why would anybody no matter what level of the game they are, want $5,000 when they could be getting $10,000. People got family's, bills, cars, kids, and not to mention overhead cost, and they don't come cheap. I say GET THAT MONEY.
chili's 8 buck cds still tha magic number...
but hey i cop folks' cds to show support..unless they piss me off by actin like my 10 bucks is just 10 measely bucks.. and i oughtta have to wait 4-6 weeks for my product..i mean yeah-to me its 10 bucks i sat on my ass for half an hour to make it..fuck it right?? y'all make your music for yourselves-then dont be dreamin of selling more than couple k .. and well no matter what y'all say the attitude of an artist towards "fans" or the public will influence the opinion of your music. call it hating, maybe thats what it is..but thats tha truth...look at michael jackson.. besides being a chester, his music fell off a long time ago, but folks liked him so he still sold millions of records..yeah i just made a michael jackson comparison..what??
but hey i cop folks' cds to show support..unless they piss me off by actin like my 10 bucks is just 10 measely bucks.. and i oughtta have to wait 4-6 weeks for my product..i mean yeah-to me its 10 bucks i sat on my ass for half an hour to make it..fuck it right?? y'all make your music for yourselves-then dont be dreamin of selling more than couple k .. and well no matter what y'all say the attitude of an artist towards "fans" or the public will influence the opinion of your music. call it hating, maybe thats what it is..but thats tha truth...look at michael jackson.. besides being a chester, his music fell off a long time ago, but folks liked him so he still sold millions of records..yeah i just made a michael jackson comparison..what??
To me it's never been about how many cd's I've sold, but more about feelin respected. Anybody can be out there sellin cd's for $3 or $4 cuz that ain't hard. It's tryin to sell em for the right price that is difficult. Too many times on forums and even on the streets you hear people complainin about the price being too high for cd's. And most of the time it's people who aren't even artists themselves and don't know what it's like to pour your blood, sweat, and tears into a project. Shit, I'll give you a cd for $5 if I have to, but askin me for a free one half the time gets a little ridiculous.
If there were more supporters out there and less people lookin for handouts we would be alright. But it's funny to me that when people come up and ask me for a free cd and I tell em "nah, I need your support" they look at me like they just bit into a lemon or somethin. They act like I owe it to them cuz they're sayin they enjoy my music. Well if you enjoy my music then dig deep into your pockets and support this shit so I can move forward and live to see a next album.
Anyway, I just had to let that shit out. Carry on...
If there were more supporters out there and less people lookin for handouts we would be alright. But it's funny to me that when people come up and ask me for a free cd and I tell em "nah, I need your support" they look at me like they just bit into a lemon or somethin. They act like I owe it to them cuz they're sayin they enjoy my music. Well if you enjoy my music then dig deep into your pockets and support this shit so I can move forward and live to see a next album.
Anyway, I just had to let that shit out. Carry on...
If you think that selling your product makes your product "worth" that value, then i guess i really was raised up that much more ass-backwards.
I come from the mo'fuckin Ross/Old Navy generation...not the Goodwill/Value Village generation, but still, i keep my money. You won't find me wearing nothing but white T's. You wont find me rockin no shoes that cost anything above $50. I get pissed off when i see my friends get Lucky Charms or Cocoa Puffs, instead of Marshmellow Mateys or Cocoa Roos. This shit is all elementary to me, its second nature.
If it was about charging what you thought your music was worth, yall couldnt never in your life afford one of my CDs. Charging what other people think your music is worth is another thing.
I tell you what....peep this segment from a JT Tha Bigga Figga interview, and tell me what it makes you think:
From: http://www.allhiphop.com/features/?ID=764
AllHipHop: Some of the biggest labels are no where near 70 albums. How did you manage to navigate through the waters and release that many records?
JT: Basically, elementary game that I learned from E-40 and Uncle Saint Charles up at Solar Music Group. We lowered our CD prices. Instead of selling them for $8 or $9 dollars, we were selling them for $3 and $4 and getting cash up front. So to get $60,000 cash up front for 20,000 CD's that you just paid $13,000 for, that makes sense. So, to do it on that level, sometimes we only sell 10,000 pieces. It's about getting this product out. All this profit keeps going. You don't know what album is gonna be the one to put you over the top, you don't know what song is gonna put you over the top.
What does that make you think? To me it makes me think exactly what its supposed to main: aint no magic single, aint no magic album. aint no "i gotta pay the bills", aint no "i got family", aint none of that shit. If you wanna be a little prick and charge $10 for your first project, i hope that project crashes and burns. Because we ALL KNOW the first thing you're going to do when it takes you 4-5 months to sell through that 1000 copies, is sit around feeling sorry for yourself, and you're NOT going to press up 1000 more.
I don't know about all that "lived through this" stuff, because, for one, millions of Scientists lived through Gravity, but it took a 20-something kid named Newton to figure out how it works. Thats just one example...but you get the point. Something so GLARINGLY obvious to us today, and so many people just looked right over it, and fell right into their little medevil, spiritual, mythical explainations and mindframe.
Back to the beginning...i dont know about you all, but i was raised to find the best deal. And $10 is a "Nigga, I dont KNOW you" type of deal, flat out. If you gone charge your right-hand man $5, why its such a big deal to sell to everyone for $5? If you gone charge that girl with the nice rack in the front row the $3.75 she had in her purse, why not charge EVERYONE $3.75?
I was sayin it earlier, you can ship a CD for $1.25 (packaging and all) if you look around hard enough. You could sell CDs on your label website for $5, and its gravy. All this, "i need to recoup! i need to recoup!", chicken-with-its-head-cut-off shit...i aint with it. Its not MY FAULT you felt you needed Baby Bash for your project. Its not MY FAULT you wanted to buy that Sean T beat. Its not MY FAULT you kept fucking around in the studio, smokin blunts and drinking and it drove your bills up.
I still stick by what i said earlier. I'd rather sell 3300+ albums for $10,000, than 1000 albums for $10,000, ANY DAY OF THE WEEK.
I come from the mo'fuckin Ross/Old Navy generation...not the Goodwill/Value Village generation, but still, i keep my money. You won't find me wearing nothing but white T's. You wont find me rockin no shoes that cost anything above $50. I get pissed off when i see my friends get Lucky Charms or Cocoa Puffs, instead of Marshmellow Mateys or Cocoa Roos. This shit is all elementary to me, its second nature.
If it was about charging what you thought your music was worth, yall couldnt never in your life afford one of my CDs. Charging what other people think your music is worth is another thing.
I tell you what....peep this segment from a JT Tha Bigga Figga interview, and tell me what it makes you think:
From: http://www.allhiphop.com/features/?ID=764
AllHipHop: Some of the biggest labels are no where near 70 albums. How did you manage to navigate through the waters and release that many records?
JT: Basically, elementary game that I learned from E-40 and Uncle Saint Charles up at Solar Music Group. We lowered our CD prices. Instead of selling them for $8 or $9 dollars, we were selling them for $3 and $4 and getting cash up front. So to get $60,000 cash up front for 20,000 CD's that you just paid $13,000 for, that makes sense. So, to do it on that level, sometimes we only sell 10,000 pieces. It's about getting this product out. All this profit keeps going. You don't know what album is gonna be the one to put you over the top, you don't know what song is gonna put you over the top.
What does that make you think? To me it makes me think exactly what its supposed to main: aint no magic single, aint no magic album. aint no "i gotta pay the bills", aint no "i got family", aint none of that shit. If you wanna be a little prick and charge $10 for your first project, i hope that project crashes and burns. Because we ALL KNOW the first thing you're going to do when it takes you 4-5 months to sell through that 1000 copies, is sit around feeling sorry for yourself, and you're NOT going to press up 1000 more.
I don't know about all that "lived through this" stuff, because, for one, millions of Scientists lived through Gravity, but it took a 20-something kid named Newton to figure out how it works. Thats just one example...but you get the point. Something so GLARINGLY obvious to us today, and so many people just looked right over it, and fell right into their little medevil, spiritual, mythical explainations and mindframe.
Back to the beginning...i dont know about you all, but i was raised to find the best deal. And $10 is a "Nigga, I dont KNOW you" type of deal, flat out. If you gone charge your right-hand man $5, why its such a big deal to sell to everyone for $5? If you gone charge that girl with the nice rack in the front row the $3.75 she had in her purse, why not charge EVERYONE $3.75?
I was sayin it earlier, you can ship a CD for $1.25 (packaging and all) if you look around hard enough. You could sell CDs on your label website for $5, and its gravy. All this, "i need to recoup! i need to recoup!", chicken-with-its-head-cut-off shit...i aint with it. Its not MY FAULT you felt you needed Baby Bash for your project. Its not MY FAULT you wanted to buy that Sean T beat. Its not MY FAULT you kept fucking around in the studio, smokin blunts and drinking and it drove your bills up.
I still stick by what i said earlier. I'd rather sell 3300+ albums for $10,000, than 1000 albums for $10,000, ANY DAY OF THE WEEK.