United States's interference with other nations...

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What do you think?

  • As a major world power it is our obligation to interfere with the conflict in other nations

    Votes: 4 30.8%
  • Nah it's just some bullshit, we need to stop risking lives to help "police" the rest of the world, s

    Votes: 8 61.5%
  • I simply don't give a fck

    Votes: 1 7.7%

  • Total voters
    13
Jun 17, 2004
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#1
Have we not learned our lesson scince Vietnam? Why do we continue 2 try to "police" the rest of the world by interfering with other nation's business when it has little to do with us? Are we simply risking the lives of thousands of americans because we feel we need to "police" the rest of the world?
 
May 13, 2002
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Seattle
www.socialistworld.net
#2
It is the nature of the capitalist beast to "intervene", or in other words, oppress, exploit and rape resources. This is the way it always has been and always will be.

Just read this thread on Latin America

Imperialism is the highest form of capitalism. Why do you think we "intervene?"

"They used to use a bullet and a rope. Now they use the World Bank and the IMF." If necessary, imperialism will directly militarily intervene in defense of its markets. The big powers use the IMF, World Bank, WTO etc. as an effective tool of imperialism to control the economic and political policy of a country. When that fails, we "bomb them back to the stone age!"

Since the multinational companies are based in the West, and since they have already dominated their own national markets, the main thrust of neo-liberalism has been to open up markets in the "under-developed" world. Then, the multinational corporations can sell their products at a cheaper rate than can local businesses and take over their economies. Neo-liebral cuts are engineered to destroy all subsidies for the production of domestic goods, aid for domestic farmers, and programs to foster domestic small businesses. Free trade has been an absolute disaster for the peoples of the poorer countries. Under the guise of free trade, corporations have robbed the wealth of these countries and stored it in the vaults of the major banks of the West. This economic super-domination of these countries is merely a less overt version of the directly racist colonialsim of the past
 
Jun 17, 2004
849
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#5
nefar559 said:
we should intervene only for justice and democracy, but it never happens
we label our country a democracy, what is democracy? democracy is a government of the people, the people are the ones who decide which laws should and should not be... that is a democracy.... now consider this, we citizens don't make as many decisions as u may think, infact our votes in some cases only count depending on how many people your state represents. the REPRESENTATIVES in your state government make majority of the decisions... so really we as a country are not a democracy, because for the most part we do not represent ourselves, we have other people(which we elect) represent us.

intervene for democracy eh? so how about we intervene for true democracy starting with ourselves.
 
Nov 20, 2002
1,551
13
38
40
Stockton
#6
I would be more comfortable calling our country a Republic, rather than a Democracy, exactly for the reason above. I dont know about any one else, but thats just me. But it goes both ways.

As for the topic, I feel our government, should stay the fuck out of everyones business and tend to shit here. Why fund the war, when they could be building shelters for the homeless, fixing schools.. Helping out our state of CA with our HIGH FUCKING COST OF LIVING and lower our gas prices too,. lol...

I just like to ramble, so I'll take my leave now...

*exit stage left*
 
Jul 7, 2002
3,105
0
0
#8
J-Funk said:
we label our country a democracy, what is democracy? democracy is a government of the people, the people are the ones who decide which laws should and should not be... that is a democracy.... now consider this, we citizens don't make as many decisions as u may think, infact our votes in some cases only count depending on how many people your state represents. the REPRESENTATIVES in your state government make majority of the decisions... so really we as a country are not a democracy, because for the most part we do not represent ourselves, we have other people(which we elect) represent us.

intervene for democracy eh? so how about we intervene for true democracy starting with ourselves.
thats soo very true, ever heard of a book called "a crisis of democracy" ? can there be such a thing as too much democracy? anyways the book is straight from the Trilateral Commission........HESERY TAKE NOTES
 
Jun 24, 2004
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#9
hobgoblin said:
I would be more comfortable calling our country a Republic, rather than a Democracy, exactly for the reason above. I dont know about any one else, but thats just me. But it goes both ways.

As for the topic, I feel our government, should stay the fuck out of everyones business and tend to shit here. Why fund the war, when they could be building shelters for the homeless, fixing schools.. Helping out our state of CA with our HIGH FUCKING COST OF LIVING and lower our gas prices too,. lol...

I just like to ramble, so I'll take my leave now...

*exit stage left*


So we should just leave brutal dictators who have access to WMD's in power? I think taking care of the homeless is a little less important than that. California brought that on themselfs, and to fix it you brought Arnold in. GOOD LUCK.
 
Nov 20, 2002
1,551
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Stockton
#10
@ Dayton, you actin like we dont have access to WMD's. Shit, you know all we need to do is put the world in check with another Bomb. Everyone on the planet knows about us.

You think taking care of the homeless isnt important? But risking thousands of peoples lives in a country you feel we should invade to "remove" one person from power is okay? In my mind, the very thought of that is quite laffable... yea, thats right I said laffable.

We brought our debt upon ourselves? Is that why Enron(located in Texas) is behind the debt we are in? If we had more money, we wouldnt have such high cost of living, and 8.75% state taxes... So the government can fund the war, but cant shoot us a little somethin, and help out? That really shows how much they care about us...and how much you think the way they do... bravo.

*single-handed clap*

@ 2-0

I know, but it also doesnt help us, by spending money we dont have. Which would also be the case for funding the shelters, maybe a couple food kitchens; but at least people will have a place to stay, and maybe get a chance to get a job since they would have a "place of residence." Which in turn could help us....... ------>(unsurely)couldnt it? lol

again... rambling.. I dont know if what I said makes sense, but fuck it... its 1 am, lol.

*exit stage left*
 
May 2, 2002
9,580
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#11
2-0-Sixx said:
Because it's not profitable.
but giving money away to help AIDS research is? especially knowing theres a very good chance the US already has a cure for AIDS?

how bout this little war? did we profit off that? we're a few billion dollars in deficit now. BIG PROFIT THAT WAS. and the vietnam war.. shit, hell ya we profitted off that!

wait... didnt we? :dead:
 
Jun 24, 2004
2,268
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#14
hobgoblin said:
@ Dayton, you actin like we dont have access to WMD's. Shit, you know all we need to do is put the world in check with another Bomb. Everyone on the planet knows about us.

You think taking care of the homeless isnt important? But risking thousands of peoples lives in a country you feel we should invade to "remove" one person from power is okay? In my mind, the very thought of that is quite laffable... yea, thats right I said laffable.

We brought our debt upon ourselves? Is that why Enron(located in Texas) is behind the debt we are in? If we had more money, we wouldnt have such high cost of living, and 8.75% state taxes... So the government can fund the war, but cant shoot us a little somethin, and help out? That really shows how much they care about us...and how much you think the way they do... bravo.

*single-handed clap*

@ 2-0

I know, but it also doesnt help us, by spending money we dont have. Which would also be the case for funding the shelters, maybe a couple food kitchens; but at least people will have a place to stay, and maybe get a chance to get a job since they would have a "place of residence." Which in turn could help us....... ------>(unsurely)couldnt it? lol

again... rambling.. I dont know if what I said makes sense, but fuck it... its 1 am, lol.

*exit stage left*


Russia and China wouldnt attack back with there WMD's if we used ours? Get a clue, if we used our nukes, there wouldnt be much of a world left for your precious homeless people to live in.
 
Dec 25, 2003
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#17
Psycho Logic said:
how much of that money is actually going into BUSH'S pocket, I'd like to know... that is from a media outlet other than michaelmoore.com
Business + Business + Business, with a small bit of government. That's the Bush cabinet for you. How much will go directly into the pocket of G.W...zero.

How much will go into the people who paid for him to get to the White House...that's up to you to decide. Here's a "Who's Who" on the Bush cabinet...released in early 01.
Dept of Agriculture, Ann Veneman

Assistant Secretary of Agriculture under George I (91-92). Spent seven years in Dept. of Agriculture under Reagan-Bush (86-92). Ran CA state Agriculture Dept. Served on the board of Calgene, which researches genetically engineered foods (92-94). She's pro-GE foods, pro-export, pro-globalization, pro-cutting (she will oversee the Forest Service), and helped to negotiate farm portions of the GATT agreement.

Dept of Energy, Spencer Abraham

In 1999, he was one of a handful of Senators who sponsored a bill to abolish the DOE. He was a top aide to VP Dan Quayle. He's a major advocate for auto industry. In 2000, he joined a bid to open the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to oil and gas exploration. Strongly favors utility deregulation. No idea how to manage the DOE's nuclear weapons facilities.

Dept of Interior, Gale Norton

Norton lobbied in DC for a lead paint manufacturer, NL Industries, which is named as a defendant in lawsuits involving 75 Superfund and toxic waste sites, plus a dozen suits of children poisoned by lead paint. Supports mining and oil and gas exploration and more timber harvesting on all federal lands. A harsh critic of the Endangered Species Act, her first job in 1979 was at James Watt's Mountain States Legal Foundation. Founder and serves on the Advisory Committee for the Coalition of Republican Environmental Advocates, a pseudo-green front group funded by energy companies and associations representing the mining, logging, chemical, and coal industries. She pushed for Colorado's "self-audit" law that allows polluting companies to monitor themselves.

Dept of Transportation, Norman Mineta

Currently Commerce Secretary under Clinton. He was a senior VP at Lockheed Martin Corp. He was a key author of the 1991 Surface Transportation Efficiency Act, which devolved responsibility for transportation down to state and local governments. Most importantly, he's a big supporter of the aviation industry (Boeing & Lockheed Martin love him).

EPA, Christine Todd Whitman

As governor, she cut the New Jersey environmental protection budget by 30%, relaxed enforcement of pollution regulations, promoted voluntary compliance by industry,abolished NJ's environmental prosecutor's office. New Jersey has the highest number of Superfund sites in the nation. She regularly fought with the EPA over numerous issues concerning lax compliance with environmental laws in her state. Whitman has said she doubts that the giant ozone hole over the North Pole or global warming are actually serious problems.

Dept of Commerce, Donald (Donnie) Evans

George II's closest friend and confident. As his presidential campaign chairman, he raised $100 million. Only worked for one company in his life: Tom Brown, Inc., an oil and gas company. Nine years as President and 10 yrs as CEO.

Dept of Treasury, Paul O'Neill
Was deputy director of Office of Management & Budget under Ford. Chairman of Alcoa Corp., one of the nation's largest toxic polluters; O'Neill's shares are worth more than $50 million. Political policy insider, no Wall Street or economic experience. Supports balanced federal budget, critic of Federal Reserve interest rate hikes. Chair of the board of Rand Corp., serves on other right-wing think tank boards.

Assistant for Economic Affairs, Larry Lindsey

A defender of Reagonomics. Long-time tax-cut advocate who drafted George II's tax cut plan and his plan to reform Social Security by creating individual investment accounts.

Dept of Health & Human Services, Tommy Thompson

As governor, imposed Wisconsin's harsh, trendsetting welfare reform. He opposes abortion, signing legislation that forces WI women who want abortions to seek counseling first, then wait three days before surgery. Wants to convert Medicaid to a system of block grants to states. Wants to "restructure" Medicare, Social Security, and Medicaid.

Dept of Housing & Urban Development, Melquiadees Martinez

George II's thank-you kiss to Florida. His only housing experience is serving as chairman of Orlando Housing Authority for two years (84-86). He's very vocal on right-wing Cuban issues; he has called for a naval blockade of Cuba. A yes-man who has no clue about housing.

Dept. of Labor, Elaine Chao

A Taiwanese immigrant, Linda Chavez's replacement also has little experience with unions or industry; she comes from a stint as President/CEO of United Way, and is a past (91-92) director of the Peace Corps. A Dept. of Transportation official under Reagan. Married to Sen. Mitch McConnell (R-KY), who is famous for his strident opposition to any and all campaign finance reform. Her actual record is indistinguishable from Chavez: she opposed the Civil Rights Act of 1991, which increased worker rights to sue for discrimination in the workplace. She's against affirmative action and has criticized efforts to diversify workplaces. She opposes the new rules on ergonomics in the workplace and she supports allowing workers to withhold the portion of their union dues that would be used for political purposes. She's also likely to oppose any increases in the minimum wage.

Dept of Veterans Affairs, Anthony Principi

Deputy Secretary of V.A. under George I, later ran the agency under him. He's a decorated vet of Vietnam War. He has also served as chief operating officer of Lockheed Martin Integrated Systems.

Dept of Justice, John Ashcroft (Atty General)

Opposes abortion, hates gays, supports the death penalty, opposes a moratorium on executions, wants tougher sentences for drug crimes, opposes any and all gun control laws. Scuttled the appointment of Ronnie White (the first African-American on the Missouri Supreme Court) to a federal district court bench. In a 1998 interiew he lauded the cause of pro-slavery Confederate secessionists; in 1999, Ashcroft got an honorary degree from Bob Jones University, the same University Bush spoke at that does not allow race-mixing among students. Lobbyists reportedly consider him an advocate for drug companies and the automotive industry, and for preventing consumers from suing HMOs.

Dept of Defense, Donald Rumsfeld

Defense Secretary under Ford ('75-'77), ambassador to NATO in '72, worked for pharmaceutical companies GD Searle and Gilead Science Inc. He testified against the chemical weapons convention, opposed the SALT II arms agreement, and supported the MX and B-1 and B-2 bombers. He is also a member of the Council on Foreign Relations. A leading proponent of Star Wars and other costly, hi-tech gadget weaponry, his Rumsfield Commission's inaccurate, alarmist views of North Korea and Iran gave Clinton the necessary cover to support National Missile Defense. Opposed the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty. He supports -- surprise! -- massive increases in an already bloated military budget. Paranoid about attacks against US communications satellites and US computer systems.

Dept. of State, Colin Powell

In Vietnam, Powell's casual investigation rejected as false initial charges of a civilian massacre at My Lai. As a member of Reagan's national security team, he personally arranged the illegal transfer of at least 2,000 missiles to Iran. In his autobiography, Powell claims that he was "the chief administration advocate" for the Contras. Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff for both the invasion of Panama (and decimation of civilian neighborhoods) and the Gulf War. Powell has been dismissive of Gulf War Syndrome, while 184,000 of the 697,000 Gulf War troops have filed disability claims with the government. Powell has no experience with diplomatic matters of state.

National Security Advisor, Condoleezza Rice,

Spent two years as a mid-level staffer and Soviet expert for the National Security Council during the '80s, her only federal experience. Her only expertise is the old Soviet Union. She is an ardent globalization fan, and is on the board of Chevron Oil, one of Africa's worst human rights abusers. Chevron recently named an oil tanker after her. She favors continuing Iraq sanctions, likes Star Wars, and argues for global domination.

US Trade Representative, Robert Zoellick

Most notable for his ardent support of free trade and globalization, Zoellick, as a State Dept. Undersecretary for Economic and Agricultural Affairs in the George I years, was a prime architect and negotiator for the proposals that became NAFTA and the World Trade Organization. He went from Asst. Secretary of Treasury under Clinton to Senior International Advisor for Goldman Sachs -- the notorious international investment firm some suggest is responsible for widespread Third World economic misery.

Iron Triangle (close friends who are the closest advisors to George II):

Senior Advisor and Assistant to President, Karl Rove

A close friend of George II since the '60s. Worked on his campaigns for Congress in '78, Governor in '94, and '98. According to a George II biography, his campaign dirty tricks include sending out false invitations to political events, falsifying documents on opponents' stationery, and using false names.

Chief of Staff, Andrew Card

Headed General Motors lobbying efforts. He worked on various campaigns and then as deputy chief of staff and Secretary of Transportation for George I. He then took $600,000 lobbyist job as president of American Automobile Manufactures Association.
 
Dec 18, 2002
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#18
Whats funny is, W.D probably supplies you republicans with more info about republicans than you do for yourselves -- I guess reading is harder than watching FNC.