UFC 129
- Thread starter Chuy Savedra
- Start date
GSP making people like Jake Shields, Josh Koscheck, Jon Fitch, BJ Penn etc. look like they don't belong in the ring is impressive and proving he's one of the absolute best. People act like it's easy to handle these guys like they're scrubs but there's only one person doing it.
If GSP wasn't around people would be referring to the welterweight division as exciting and competitive but since he's smashing top 10's like they don't matter it's a problem. A finish would be nice, sure, but I think it's amazingly impressive what he's doing.
I'm not saying everyone needs to like his fights, to each his own on that, but to make it seem like what he's doing isn't showing he's great is crazy. Flashiness, KOs, or submissions don't = greatness. Dominating top 10s on a consistent basis does.. and GSP absolutely does that..
If GSP wasn't around people would be referring to the welterweight division as exciting and competitive but since he's smashing top 10's like they don't matter it's a problem. A finish would be nice, sure, but I think it's amazingly impressive what he's doing.
I'm not saying everyone needs to like his fights, to each his own on that, but to make it seem like what he's doing isn't showing he's great is crazy. Flashiness, KOs, or submissions don't = greatness. Dominating top 10s on a consistent basis does.. and GSP absolutely does that..
but imagine if he was doing to them what he did to Hughes the 2nd & 3rd time, Hieron, Mayhem, Trigg, Sherk...
That's what is so disappointing. I know he can KO Shields in under a minute, but the two times he hurt him he stared at him like he wanted to ask if he was OK.
He'll be remembered as the best welterweight ever but he could be remembered as the best fighter to ever live if he would stop doing just enough to win.
That's what is so disappointing. I know he can KO Shields in under a minute, but the two times he hurt him he stared at him like he wanted to ask if he was OK.
He'll be remembered as the best welterweight ever but he could be remembered as the best fighter to ever live if he would stop doing just enough to win.
Diaz would get taken down repeatedly and beat on for the duration of the fight. Diaz isn't Shields when it comes to takedown defense, let's not kid ourselves here. That would be a 50-45 easy.
Silva I think beats GSP but I thought that before this fight. No shame in losing to a guy like Silva, who's clearly a complete animal in his own right.
Silva I think beats GSP but I thought that before this fight. No shame in losing to a guy like Silva, who's clearly a complete animal in his own right.
Mayhem wasn't finished he was beaten from bell to bell like everyone else, Sherk was undersized and a tiny version of the guys he's fighting now. I'm not making excuses, it's just a different time for him and fighters are more gunshy going against him. Look at almost every Thiago Alves fight then look at his fight against GSP, GSP made him fight that tentative. History usually remembers great fighters favorably regardless of what people think of their fights now.
There's no doubt in my mind that people today would watch guys like Pep & Intocable and call them boring and doing enough to win. But they're remembered as all time greats, as will GSP, IMO.
There's no doubt in my mind that people today would watch guys like Pep & Intocable and call them boring and doing enough to win. But they're remembered as all time greats, as will GSP, IMO.
Mayhem's impossible to finish and Sherk's comparatively the same size as BJ and went on to beat Nick Diaz his next fight. I agree with you but I have no doubt in my mind GSP could run through Hardy, Shields and Koscheck if he wanted to, but he's not and it's annoying as fuck. I don't want to see him in glorified sparring sessions that seem exciting because they're in Canada where people cheer him scratching his ass.
Last week Jordan Breen was talking about how GSP's psyche has been so fucked up since he lost to Serra that he actually scares himself into thinking every fight is the toughest of his career and takes 0 risk because he can't handle losing again. Which is probably why he's hesitant to fight Anderson and will probably just shoot doubles and sit in Diaz's guard if they fight.
Last week Jordan Breen was talking about how GSP's psyche has been so fucked up since he lost to Serra that he actually scares himself into thinking every fight is the toughest of his career and takes 0 risk because he can't handle losing again. Which is probably why he's hesitant to fight Anderson and will probably just shoot doubles and sit in Diaz's guard if they fight.
I agree that he can finish these fights. The Hardy fight I thought he tried to finish more than most of his recent fights. Sherk is the same size as Penn and it's no surprise that Penn is the last person GSP halted and in the same sense Mayhem went on to get stopped by Trigg (even if it was a way that would be illegal in the UFC he hurt him before those kicks.)
These guys aren't pressing GSP to make it more than a glorified sparring session that's my only thing. Why is GSP the one expected to attack at all times and no one seems to knock his opponents for doing nothing at all.
I don't buy that Serra excuse at all. Let's look at his opponents between his two losses and after his last loss...
after his first loss to Matt Hughes he beats
Dave Strasser Submission (Kimura)
Jason Miller Decision (Unanimous)
Frank Trigg Submission (Rear-Naked Choke)
Sean Sherk TKO (Punches and Elbows)
B.J. Penn Decision (Split)
Matt Hughes TKO (Head Kick and Punches)
after his loss to Serra he beats
Josh Koscheck Decision (Unanimous)
Matt Hughes Submission (Armbar)
Matt Serra TKO (Knees to the Body)
Jon Fitch Decision (Unanimous)
B.J. Penn TKO (Corner Stoppage)
Thiago Alves Decision (Unanimous)
Dan Hardy Decision (Unanimous)
Josh Koscheck Decision (Unanimous)
Jake Shields Decision (Unanimous)
Strasser's a meaningless fight after a loss that GSP would finish 18 times a week. So he finished Hughes before his loss to Serra and he finished him after his loss to Serra. He went to an extremely close decision with Penn before his loss to Serra that a lot of people argued his lost and still do to this day and after Serra he beat the burritos out of him and essentially made the unquittable quit.
Everyone else is a completely different opponent and a much different type of opponent than what he fought before Serra. Koscheck was seriously injured in the rematch, Fitch looked like GSP hit him with everything in the ring except the referee, and Alves didn't do a god damn thing but get outstriked, taken down, outstriked, taken down. He mounted ZERO offense.
I agree that he could have finished someone like Hardy but even the Shields situation I'm not so sure. Henderson hit Shields with the same right hand that blew Bisping's face off and then went on to take out LHW Feijao & Babalu. I think the criticism comes from GSP being so great that he's expected to crush guys that no one else would be expected to.
Let anyone else do this ..
Josh Koscheck Decision (Unanimous)
Matt Hughes Submission (Armbar)
Matt Serra TKO (Knees to the Body)
Jon Fitch Decision (Unanimous)
B.J. Penn TKO (Corner Stoppage)
Thiago Alves Decision (Unanimous)
Dan Hardy Decision (Unanimous)
Josh Koscheck Decision (Unanimous)
Jake Shields Decision (Unanimous)
I can't imagine them getting slammed and criticized like GSP's getting.
These guys aren't pressing GSP to make it more than a glorified sparring session that's my only thing. Why is GSP the one expected to attack at all times and no one seems to knock his opponents for doing nothing at all.
I don't buy that Serra excuse at all. Let's look at his opponents between his two losses and after his last loss...
after his first loss to Matt Hughes he beats
Dave Strasser Submission (Kimura)
Jason Miller Decision (Unanimous)
Frank Trigg Submission (Rear-Naked Choke)
Sean Sherk TKO (Punches and Elbows)
B.J. Penn Decision (Split)
Matt Hughes TKO (Head Kick and Punches)
after his loss to Serra he beats
Josh Koscheck Decision (Unanimous)
Matt Hughes Submission (Armbar)
Matt Serra TKO (Knees to the Body)
Jon Fitch Decision (Unanimous)
B.J. Penn TKO (Corner Stoppage)
Thiago Alves Decision (Unanimous)
Dan Hardy Decision (Unanimous)
Josh Koscheck Decision (Unanimous)
Jake Shields Decision (Unanimous)
Strasser's a meaningless fight after a loss that GSP would finish 18 times a week. So he finished Hughes before his loss to Serra and he finished him after his loss to Serra. He went to an extremely close decision with Penn before his loss to Serra that a lot of people argued his lost and still do to this day and after Serra he beat the burritos out of him and essentially made the unquittable quit.
Everyone else is a completely different opponent and a much different type of opponent than what he fought before Serra. Koscheck was seriously injured in the rematch, Fitch looked like GSP hit him with everything in the ring except the referee, and Alves didn't do a god damn thing but get outstriked, taken down, outstriked, taken down. He mounted ZERO offense.
I agree that he could have finished someone like Hardy but even the Shields situation I'm not so sure. Henderson hit Shields with the same right hand that blew Bisping's face off and then went on to take out LHW Feijao & Babalu. I think the criticism comes from GSP being so great that he's expected to crush guys that no one else would be expected to.
Let anyone else do this ..
Josh Koscheck Decision (Unanimous)
Matt Hughes Submission (Armbar)
Matt Serra TKO (Knees to the Body)
Jon Fitch Decision (Unanimous)
B.J. Penn TKO (Corner Stoppage)
Thiago Alves Decision (Unanimous)
Dan Hardy Decision (Unanimous)
Josh Koscheck Decision (Unanimous)
Jake Shields Decision (Unanimous)
I can't imagine them getting slammed and criticized like GSP's getting.
