Thoughts on the Uprisings in North Africa and Middle East?
- Thread starter 2-0-Sixx
- Start date
@ 206 you said:
Technology, access to more weapons and a different culture and mindset/mentality.
I'm not saying what you learned isn't relevant or applicable to today. What I'm saying is things are more involved and not so simple--things are never simple. (And as I'm typing this, I'm talking to my ole lady on the phone and she's saying something similar to you. She is saying the common person is saying "if they can do it, we can do it and I'd rather die then live like this.")
Hell no that isn't enough. Someone has to keep the anger, hatred and willingness to fight going or it will die down.
I can ask you the same question. In fact, I'm asking you now. Have you been to Egypt/Tunisia/Libya? Are you in touch with society there, do you have relatives there?
People are the same everywhere, while they may not be as brain washed as we are, they are still brain washed.
Technology, access to more weapons and a different culture and mindset/mentality.
I'm not saying what you learned isn't relevant or applicable to today. What I'm saying is things are more involved and not so simple--things are never simple. (And as I'm typing this, I'm talking to my ole lady on the phone and she's saying something similar to you. She is saying the common person is saying "if they can do it, we can do it and I'd rather die then live like this.")
Hell no that isn't enough. Someone has to keep the anger, hatred and willingness to fight going or it will die down.
I can ask you the same question. In fact, I'm asking you now. Have you been to Egypt/Tunisia/Libya? Are you in touch with society there, do you have relatives there?
People are the same everywhere, while they may not be as brain washed as we are, they are still brain washed.
Your entire premise is that religion is the root of the problem. With that being said, telling you about religions that aren't against birth control is relevant as doing so is simply stating a fact that is contrary to your initial claim. If you're blaming "religion" and citing it as the root of the problem, you have to look at ALL religions, from the "tribal cults" to the religions that matter (in your eye.) You can't pick and choose here, buddy. You aren't making a distinction so you either get all religions or you cease the general statements and go into specifics.
MR.NICE GUY stated something you've refused to address and that was "The desire to pass our genes on to the next generation is evolutionarily derived and exists independent of any suggestion by religion." Now if you look at the thread that I've linked, you will see that I basically stated something similar yet you did the same thing you're doing now.
Has religion caused problems? Absolutely. However, to now say it is the root of the problem (which is contrary to your previous statement about it not being the root of the problem) only shows your bias.
So do yourself a favor, be specific and cease making generalizations or continue saying dumb shit and back-peddling when people call you on your words. The choice is yours, you'll continue to do what you want to do but don't continue thinking that you're going to jerk chains and cause people to jump because you aren't.
MR.NICE GUY stated something you've refused to address and that was "The desire to pass our genes on to the next generation is evolutionarily derived and exists independent of any suggestion by religion." Now if you look at the thread that I've linked, you will see that I basically stated something similar yet you did the same thing you're doing now.
Has religion caused problems? Absolutely. However, to now say it is the root of the problem (which is contrary to your previous statement about it not being the root of the problem) only shows your bias.
So do yourself a favor, be specific and cease making generalizations or continue saying dumb shit and back-peddling when people call you on your words. The choice is yours, you'll continue to do what you want to do but don't continue thinking that you're going to jerk chains and cause people to jump because you aren't.
According to the Frontline I watched last night, the orchestrator's of the Egyptian uprising studied the Serbian protests in efforts to win the Army over (i.e. putting hands in the air and approaching and hugging soldiers) and keep the civil disobedience as non-violent as possible.
In Libya the non-violent reaction to the military attacks have left Gadafi with less than 5,000 soldiers/militia men.
Anyone see oil crack $100/barrel today? $5 gas by end of april? perhaps...
When all is said and done, and reconstruction efforts are pursued, hopefully the new governments that are established in the region will tolerate freedom of press, religion, and assembly.
In Libya the non-violent reaction to the military attacks have left Gadafi with less than 5,000 soldiers/militia men.
Anyone see oil crack $100/barrel today? $5 gas by end of april? perhaps...
When all is said and done, and reconstruction efforts are pursued, hopefully the new governments that are established in the region will tolerate freedom of press, religion, and assembly.
Technology has actually helped people mobilize faster if you haven't noticed. More weapons? How does this make a difference? Libya's army for the record is very weak.
She sounds like a smart woman
There are groups that provide leadership.
I'm specifically asking you. I want you to answer the question. I want to know if you're in touch with reality there because to me it honestly sounds like you are not.
I haven't been there. My good friend is Egyptian he has family there, his brother is there in the middle of it he feeds me a lot of information. In addition I think I have a fairly good understanding based on the blogs, the twitter accounts I follow in real time from actual people there in the region, the hours and hours of video I watch, the articles, the foreign media I read and watch, etc.
I remember a number ov years ago my Egyptian friend and I watched The Battle of Algiers together and he told me "that's what I want. That's where I want to be, right in the middle of it all!" He's envious
No they are not the same everywhere.
She sounds like a smart woman
There are groups that provide leadership.
I'm specifically asking you. I want you to answer the question. I want to know if you're in touch with reality there because to me it honestly sounds like you are not.
I haven't been there. My good friend is Egyptian he has family there, his brother is there in the middle of it he feeds me a lot of information. In addition I think I have a fairly good understanding based on the blogs, the twitter accounts I follow in real time from actual people there in the region, the hours and hours of video I watch, the articles, the foreign media I read and watch, etc.
I remember a number ov years ago my Egyptian friend and I watched The Battle of Algiers together and he told me "that's what I want. That's where I want to be, right in the middle of it all!" He's envious
No they are not the same everywhere.
I didn't say it didn't. Remember, your question was "What is it about "this day and age" that is different from 20, 50 or 100 years ago?" So citing technology as a difference is useful in showing that this is a different type of revolution. Now mind you, in saying it is different I'm not suggesting that the core values or motivation of the majority of people is any different from before, but the way they are going about it and how they implement it is.
Very simple. More weapons/advanced weaponry in the hands of the people no longer makes it a battle between farmers or people with sticks vs those who have big guns.
But I'm talking about those who're revolting.
Which is why she chose me.
Like who? Wael Ghonim? Those who stand to gain a lot after the smoke has cleared?
I'm in touch with the reality that is going on in the region, but I'm not convinced that it is simply the spirit of liberation moving over the horizon. You're experiencing back to back regime changes, in several locales, in a short amount of time and the way it is happening is far more advanced than "socialism 101" and "communism 101".
Now if someone who was there told you people of European background or arabs from other countries were closing up shop and leaving just prior to things starting what would you think and say? If someone were to tell you OPs and "spooks" were constantly seen in those regions before things got ugly what would you say?
So when things got ugly why wasn't he on the first flight to touchdown near (not in) Egypt?
The same everywhere. Robots, slaves and sheeple with the desire to consume as many pills, creams and dreams as possible. Now there may be some intrinsic and extrinsic differences, sure, but we're all the same.
Very simple. More weapons/advanced weaponry in the hands of the people no longer makes it a battle between farmers or people with sticks vs those who have big guns.
But I'm talking about those who're revolting.
Which is why she chose me.
Like who? Wael Ghonim? Those who stand to gain a lot after the smoke has cleared?
I'm in touch with the reality that is going on in the region, but I'm not convinced that it is simply the spirit of liberation moving over the horizon. You're experiencing back to back regime changes, in several locales, in a short amount of time and the way it is happening is far more advanced than "socialism 101" and "communism 101".
Now if someone who was there told you people of European background or arabs from other countries were closing up shop and leaving just prior to things starting what would you think and say? If someone were to tell you OPs and "spooks" were constantly seen in those regions before things got ugly what would you say?
So when things got ugly why wasn't he on the first flight to touchdown near (not in) Egypt?
The same everywhere. Robots, slaves and sheeple with the desire to consume as many pills, creams and dreams as possible. Now there may be some intrinsic and extrinsic differences, sure, but we're all the same.
Protesters Turn Out Across Iraq
At least five people have been killed in protests in Iraq, where demonstrators are calling for better public services and measures to clean up government corruption.
Police said the deaths occurred in clashes between protesters and the police in the towns of Hawija and Basra Friday.
Thousands of protesters across Iraq are taking part in a planned "Day of Rage" inspired by recent protests in Tunisia, Egypt, and other Middle East nations.
Security is high in and around Baghdad's Tahrir (Liberation) Square, center of the demonstrations. The city is under vehicle curfew, forcing protesters to walk to the protest site.
Thursday in a televised speech, Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki urged Iraqis to boycott the protests, saying they are organized by insurgents and supporters of ousted Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein, seeking to incite violence.
This demonstration, planned weeks ahead of time, is the latest in a series of protests in Iraq. Organizers publicize the gatherings through online social networks such as Facebook.
In response to the protests, Mr. Maliki has cut his own pay and increased funding for food programs for the needy.
http://www.voanews.com/english/news/middle-east/Protesters-Turn-Out-Across-Iraq-116907138.html
At least five people have been killed in protests in Iraq, where demonstrators are calling for better public services and measures to clean up government corruption.
Police said the deaths occurred in clashes between protesters and the police in the towns of Hawija and Basra Friday.
Thousands of protesters across Iraq are taking part in a planned "Day of Rage" inspired by recent protests in Tunisia, Egypt, and other Middle East nations.
Security is high in and around Baghdad's Tahrir (Liberation) Square, center of the demonstrations. The city is under vehicle curfew, forcing protesters to walk to the protest site.
Thursday in a televised speech, Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki urged Iraqis to boycott the protests, saying they are organized by insurgents and supporters of ousted Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein, seeking to incite violence.
This demonstration, planned weeks ahead of time, is the latest in a series of protests in Iraq. Organizers publicize the gatherings through online social networks such as Facebook.
In response to the protests, Mr. Maliki has cut his own pay and increased funding for food programs for the needy.
http://www.voanews.com/english/news/middle-east/Protesters-Turn-Out-Across-Iraq-116907138.html
Right and go back further you were commenting on how I said "spreading like wildfire." As if technology should somehow slow this process down or prevent it altogether when it's the opposite.
Advantage - people?
"Tremble you tyrants the people are coming." - A phrase from the French Revolution over two centuries ago. Times have changed, technology has changed, but the core values of people have not. The struggle is universal. Each country is different of course, but there is a commonality in the social conditions, the denial of basic democratic rights, etc.
I would say show me evidence. Also what is the time frame? Before Tunisia? After Tunisia? During the first signs of protests in Tunisia or Egypt, before or after, etc. Further information would be required. I would remain skeptical until proven otherwise. The CIA's intelligence has been terrible on the region and they did not see this coming, once again.
This is a genuine peoples movement. This is a movement for democratic rights, to change the living conditions of the workers and farmers in particular, as well as the middle classes who are ideologically and materially restrained by the oppressive dictatorships. What I would be concerned about at this point as far as foreign intervention or hidden agendas is COUNTER-REVOLUTION's.
He couldn't, legally.
Advantage - people?
"Tremble you tyrants the people are coming." - A phrase from the French Revolution over two centuries ago. Times have changed, technology has changed, but the core values of people have not. The struggle is universal. Each country is different of course, but there is a commonality in the social conditions, the denial of basic democratic rights, etc.
I would say show me evidence. Also what is the time frame? Before Tunisia? After Tunisia? During the first signs of protests in Tunisia or Egypt, before or after, etc. Further information would be required. I would remain skeptical until proven otherwise. The CIA's intelligence has been terrible on the region and they did not see this coming, once again.
This is a genuine peoples movement. This is a movement for democratic rights, to change the living conditions of the workers and farmers in particular, as well as the middle classes who are ideologically and materially restrained by the oppressive dictatorships. What I would be concerned about at this point as far as foreign intervention or hidden agendas is COUNTER-REVOLUTION's.
He couldn't, legally.
Who is suggesting that technology would slow anything down? This is what I said, "Spreading like wildfire, in this day in age, simply isn't a matter of basic revolution. Someone has to light the fire, someone has to keep it going and someone has to fund and direct the course of action."
Nowhere in that statement do I state or imply that things are hindered by having technology. In fact, you see me saying that spreading like wildfire isn't a matter of basic revolution which is what you're implying and have done so for several posts now.
The advantage depends on who is able to use the weaponry more effectively. You can have a gun with a 30 round clip, but if I have a gun with 8 rounds, I'm a crack shot and I'm aiming from high ground, I have the advantage. But the point I'm making here is the people now have a better chance to ight back, and because they have a better chance at fighting back (due to more weapons, better technology, etc) you would expect a bit more bloodshed.
Again, no one is denying the commonality in social conditions, democratic rights, etc. However, the time factor and the efficiency at which they are able to topple the previous regimes, with minimal blood shed and the appearance of outside help, is alarming and I simply can't attribute that to no change in core values.
My question was concerning Egypt since you mentioned having a friend there. However, the signs of turmoil in Tunisia didn't just happen yesterday. You can look at 2008 as a starting point and work your way backwards. And if you think for one second that the CIA didn't see this coming something is wrong with you. Just like they know the madness in Spain has the potential to spread (especially in places like Madrid and Alicante), they knew this shit was going to happen. America has an interest in the region, not just an oil interest but we are in bed with two of the most hated groups in the region which is Israel and the House of Saud. Again, do NOT think for one minute they didn't know what was going on.
Now if you want evidence that you can verify for yourself, try to use a variety of search engines and news sources that talked about Egypts economy, who was shutting down shop, who visited with it's leader(s), etc two years before this recent revolt.
No it isn't. It's actually just like the Russian Revolution you mentioned that ultimately led to what it lead to. The people are puppets, pawns in the game and there strings are being pulled. My strings are being pulled, you're are being pulled, etc. This is no movement. The string pullers understand Maslows Heirarchy of Needs and they are making everyone dance.
See above, and like I said in my first response, six in one hand half a dozen in the other.
Those things are already in place as the lines are quickly being drawn and soon you will either be on this side or that side. No in between, no sitting on the fence.
WTF does he have an ankle monitor?
Nowhere in that statement do I state or imply that things are hindered by having technology. In fact, you see me saying that spreading like wildfire isn't a matter of basic revolution which is what you're implying and have done so for several posts now.
The advantage depends on who is able to use the weaponry more effectively. You can have a gun with a 30 round clip, but if I have a gun with 8 rounds, I'm a crack shot and I'm aiming from high ground, I have the advantage. But the point I'm making here is the people now have a better chance to ight back, and because they have a better chance at fighting back (due to more weapons, better technology, etc) you would expect a bit more bloodshed.
Again, no one is denying the commonality in social conditions, democratic rights, etc. However, the time factor and the efficiency at which they are able to topple the previous regimes, with minimal blood shed and the appearance of outside help, is alarming and I simply can't attribute that to no change in core values.
My question was concerning Egypt since you mentioned having a friend there. However, the signs of turmoil in Tunisia didn't just happen yesterday. You can look at 2008 as a starting point and work your way backwards. And if you think for one second that the CIA didn't see this coming something is wrong with you. Just like they know the madness in Spain has the potential to spread (especially in places like Madrid and Alicante), they knew this shit was going to happen. America has an interest in the region, not just an oil interest but we are in bed with two of the most hated groups in the region which is Israel and the House of Saud. Again, do NOT think for one minute they didn't know what was going on.
Now if you want evidence that you can verify for yourself, try to use a variety of search engines and news sources that talked about Egypts economy, who was shutting down shop, who visited with it's leader(s), etc two years before this recent revolt.
No it isn't. It's actually just like the Russian Revolution you mentioned that ultimately led to what it lead to. The people are puppets, pawns in the game and there strings are being pulled. My strings are being pulled, you're are being pulled, etc. This is no movement. The string pullers understand Maslows Heirarchy of Needs and they are making everyone dance.
See above, and like I said in my first response, six in one hand half a dozen in the other.
Those things are already in place as the lines are quickly being drawn and soon you will either be on this side or that side. No in between, no sitting on the fence.
WTF does he have an ankle monitor?
uuuggh this is pointless...
Technology is helping the fire spread, it keeps things going it keeps things connected. You don't need funding in a popular uprising..
My point was that you were out to make it seem "in this day in age" things were so different, so difficult for something like this to occur. My point is no it's not. Nothing has really changed at all. What was desired 100 years ago is still desired today. Technology is better, but better for the people in many ways. Information spreads instantly. It doesn't take days/weeks for news to spread from one region to the next. It's literally spread in seconds.
Not sure why you're so hung up on the amount of bloodshed. In Egypt they were able to overthrow the dictator with little bloodshed because he had no control over the military. In Libya however there has been lots of bloodshed, thousands of people have died and thousands more injured.
What appearance of outside help?
I think it's hard for you to grasp because you lack an understanding and haven't studied revolutions.
I know, I followed you. I asked about Tunisia because it had relevance to your claim.
I'm aware.
Show me otherwise. Prove me wrong.
Just like they knew the soviet union was going to collapse? The CIA isn't all knowing. They are great at keeping tabs, spying, etc., but often times they are blind as bats as to what's really going on or predicting certain outcomes. There is a long history of this.
No man, I'm asking YOU to provide me with evidence. I'm not going to go on a wild goose chase. I'm not the one making the claim you are.
lol you are so stuck in your ways HERESY everything is a big conspiracy!
lol yes it was perfectly in place the puppet masters that control the puppets purposely pulled the strings so that the people would overthrow their best allies in the region yes it was written
Thank god he didn't go because it's all just a big scam, it's not real. it's not a real movement it's fake! If he would have went he would have done exactly what the puppet masters wanted him to do!!
Technology is helping the fire spread, it keeps things going it keeps things connected. You don't need funding in a popular uprising..
My point was that you were out to make it seem "in this day in age" things were so different, so difficult for something like this to occur. My point is no it's not. Nothing has really changed at all. What was desired 100 years ago is still desired today. Technology is better, but better for the people in many ways. Information spreads instantly. It doesn't take days/weeks for news to spread from one region to the next. It's literally spread in seconds.
Not sure why you're so hung up on the amount of bloodshed. In Egypt they were able to overthrow the dictator with little bloodshed because he had no control over the military. In Libya however there has been lots of bloodshed, thousands of people have died and thousands more injured.
What appearance of outside help?
I think it's hard for you to grasp because you lack an understanding and haven't studied revolutions.
I know, I followed you. I asked about Tunisia because it had relevance to your claim.
I'm aware.
Show me otherwise. Prove me wrong.
Just like they knew the soviet union was going to collapse? The CIA isn't all knowing. They are great at keeping tabs, spying, etc., but often times they are blind as bats as to what's really going on or predicting certain outcomes. There is a long history of this.
No man, I'm asking YOU to provide me with evidence. I'm not going to go on a wild goose chase. I'm not the one making the claim you are.
lol you are so stuck in your ways HERESY everything is a big conspiracy!
lol yes it was perfectly in place the puppet masters that control the puppets purposely pulled the strings so that the people would overthrow their best allies in the region yes it was written
Thank god he didn't go because it's all just a big scam, it's not real. it's not a real movement it's fake! If he would have went he would have done exactly what the puppet masters wanted him to do!!
You ALWAYS need funding to maintain the goal and keep people in check. A popular uprising is simply that, an uprising that is popular and when the popularity starts to decline then what? How do you keep it alive? You can't unless you have a well oiled machine and a well oiled machine needs money to operate.
That was NEVER my point and there is no place where it was implied that this is the case. Again, things are different because you're dealing with different cultures, different people, different circumstances, etc. Are things the same at the base level? Sure and I've stated this at least three times now. So why do you keep thinking that I'm saying revolution is difficult to occur?
How many times do I have to say I'm not talking about desire or basic human needs? Would you compare the tv of today to tv 50 years ago? How about music? How about sports? How about certain things such as the way you can cook foods? How about the way you apply for a job? Again, this isn't about desire or basic human rights but how they are going about achieving their goals and at the rate they are doing it in the region.
See above.
For you to say that shows you don't know much about war (which this basically is) or the price of freedom.
Let me know when the amount of dead equals 1% of the population or when people start claiming this is an act of genocide or compare what's going on in Libya to Iraq and Saddam.
What appearance of outside help? Only a FOOL would think that these people simply woke up from their slumber a year or two ago and now want freedom, progress and democracy.
This doesn't make any sense. So you know what books I read, what classes in sociology, political science and philosphy I've taken in college, who I've sat down with, etc? The reason why you don't understand what I'm telling you is because you aren't reading it. Simple as that.
Again, we have an interest in the area (oil and in israel), are fighting a so-called war on terror (around that area), etc. I don't need to show you otherwise or prove you wrong when all you have to do is look at our interest in the area. Now you tell me why the CIA wouldn't be on the ground or discussing what would happen if the puppets were removed.
In regards to the USSR, they were on point when it came to the economics and social conditions. And no one is saying the CIA is all knowing, shit if that were the case they would have done better in Pakistan, but they know who the fuck is going to revolt, who has the means to, who they can help out, etc.
See above, and they also have a history of spreading propaganda and helping countries who they want to manipulate and sway for american interests.
I haven't made a claim. I've made several statements asking you questions. Now you can take it as if I'm implying certain things, and if so, you also have to consider natural and probable consequences or inductive or deductive logic. So yeah, it would be way more easier for you to do the legwork.
No conspiracy, as they write the laws and are above it. Who stands to make a killing if things go to shit in the region? Big oil companies and arms dealers. So if they wanted regime change in the region, but know full well it can't happen by invading and removing the puppet we placed in power or do business with, ala Saddam and Iraq or Iran (50's and late 70's-early 80's), what do you do? You fan the flames of freedom, democracy, etc and the people will do the dirty work for you.
So when gas goes up, and your dollar goes to shit because those oil kings in the region can no longer afford to do business with this country, I want you to come back to this thread and apologize.
All this shit is by design and I'm calling America on this one.
Just curious, do you know of the arrangements we've had with the oil kings in the region? How many T-Bills they agreed to purchase? What companies are there, etc?
There are no fuckin best allies, bro. These people don't give a fuck flying goddamn shit on a stick about "best allies" or shit like that. They will slice your throats or their own mothers throats if it means P-R-O-F-I-T for them, and guess what? This shit spells out P-R-O-F-I-T.
It would be no different from voting.
That was NEVER my point and there is no place where it was implied that this is the case. Again, things are different because you're dealing with different cultures, different people, different circumstances, etc. Are things the same at the base level? Sure and I've stated this at least three times now. So why do you keep thinking that I'm saying revolution is difficult to occur?
How many times do I have to say I'm not talking about desire or basic human needs? Would you compare the tv of today to tv 50 years ago? How about music? How about sports? How about certain things such as the way you can cook foods? How about the way you apply for a job? Again, this isn't about desire or basic human rights but how they are going about achieving their goals and at the rate they are doing it in the region.
See above.
For you to say that shows you don't know much about war (which this basically is) or the price of freedom.
Let me know when the amount of dead equals 1% of the population or when people start claiming this is an act of genocide or compare what's going on in Libya to Iraq and Saddam.
What appearance of outside help? Only a FOOL would think that these people simply woke up from their slumber a year or two ago and now want freedom, progress and democracy.
This doesn't make any sense. So you know what books I read, what classes in sociology, political science and philosphy I've taken in college, who I've sat down with, etc? The reason why you don't understand what I'm telling you is because you aren't reading it. Simple as that.
Again, we have an interest in the area (oil and in israel), are fighting a so-called war on terror (around that area), etc. I don't need to show you otherwise or prove you wrong when all you have to do is look at our interest in the area. Now you tell me why the CIA wouldn't be on the ground or discussing what would happen if the puppets were removed.
In regards to the USSR, they were on point when it came to the economics and social conditions. And no one is saying the CIA is all knowing, shit if that were the case they would have done better in Pakistan, but they know who the fuck is going to revolt, who has the means to, who they can help out, etc.
See above, and they also have a history of spreading propaganda and helping countries who they want to manipulate and sway for american interests.
I haven't made a claim. I've made several statements asking you questions. Now you can take it as if I'm implying certain things, and if so, you also have to consider natural and probable consequences or inductive or deductive logic. So yeah, it would be way more easier for you to do the legwork.
No conspiracy, as they write the laws and are above it. Who stands to make a killing if things go to shit in the region? Big oil companies and arms dealers. So if they wanted regime change in the region, but know full well it can't happen by invading and removing the puppet we placed in power or do business with, ala Saddam and Iraq or Iran (50's and late 70's-early 80's), what do you do? You fan the flames of freedom, democracy, etc and the people will do the dirty work for you.
So when gas goes up, and your dollar goes to shit because those oil kings in the region can no longer afford to do business with this country, I want you to come back to this thread and apologize.
All this shit is by design and I'm calling America on this one.
Just curious, do you know of the arrangements we've had with the oil kings in the region? How many T-Bills they agreed to purchase? What companies are there, etc?
There are no fuckin best allies, bro. These people don't give a fuck flying goddamn shit on a stick about "best allies" or shit like that. They will slice your throats or their own mothers throats if it means P-R-O-F-I-T for them, and guess what? This shit spells out P-R-O-F-I-T.
It would be no different from voting.
Gotta throw my 2 cents in the pot
I see America like the British Empire I read about as a kid. Having alot of irish blood in my veins I have to feel shame for my countries government, This country's model for economic growth and socio economical growth has clearly failed for the common man and he has experienced a loss of liberty personal rights and privacy for a watered down standrad of living. We have consumed more natural resources as global community in the last 50 yrs than in the last 5,000 yrs, if there is any question about the reasoning of this countries foreign policy it can simply be attributed as the effort to maintain the economic paradise that the rich enjoy in this country, while the commons scrap for the rest and build contempt agaisnt each other racially and by class. In some sense we are fortune to have the joos runing this country because there are very educated group of people, the downside is that the average citizen has no identity for him/herself outside being a consumer. Still advertising has given the common man a false sense of importance and most of us should be happy to enjoy our lives in a country as rich as America. With the exception of small western european countries, no place on earth offers a standard of living comparable to the American experience, even at the bottom rung of society, those impoverish in this country experience a welffare system of which the world had never seen. The focus of the American people should be on regulating the natural monoplies that exist in a capitalistic system that breathes on the intensity of competetion in the marketplace that sadly excludes the majority of citzens
I see America like the British Empire I read about as a kid. Having alot of irish blood in my veins I have to feel shame for my countries government, This country's model for economic growth and socio economical growth has clearly failed for the common man and he has experienced a loss of liberty personal rights and privacy for a watered down standrad of living. We have consumed more natural resources as global community in the last 50 yrs than in the last 5,000 yrs, if there is any question about the reasoning of this countries foreign policy it can simply be attributed as the effort to maintain the economic paradise that the rich enjoy in this country, while the commons scrap for the rest and build contempt agaisnt each other racially and by class. In some sense we are fortune to have the joos runing this country because there are very educated group of people, the downside is that the average citizen has no identity for him/herself outside being a consumer. Still advertising has given the common man a false sense of importance and most of us should be happy to enjoy our lives in a country as rich as America. With the exception of small western european countries, no place on earth offers a standard of living comparable to the American experience, even at the bottom rung of society, those impoverish in this country experience a welffare system of which the world had never seen. The focus of the American people should be on regulating the natural monoplies that exist in a capitalistic system that breathes on the intensity of competetion in the marketplace that sadly excludes the majority of citzens
from CEDP
http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=24027
Zimbabweans face possible death sentence for discussing Egyptian Revolution
by Yuri Prasad
A group of socialists in Zimbabwe face a possible death sentence for watching a video about the Egyptian Revolution.
Some 52 activists were charged with treason and “subverting a constitutionally elected government” in a Harare court yesterday (Wednesday).
The attack is part of a general clampdown organised by the dictatorship of Robert Mugabe in advance of possible elections later this year. He fears that the wave of uprisings in the Middle East and north Africa could spread south.
Police arrested the group on Saturday of last week following a raid on a meeting to discuss the implications of the Egyptian Revolution for Zimbabwe that was organised by the International Socialist Organization (ISO).
The accused were led into court on Wednesday hand cuffed and in leg irons.
Many had sustained injuries while in detention, and all—including those who are HIV positive—have been prevented from receiving medical attention and drugs.
One of those charged has only recently been discharged from hospital following brain surgery. Another detainee who broke her leg after being thrown down a two-storey stairwell during the raid is also being denied proper care.
State prosecutors allege that leading ISO activist and former opposition member of parliament, Munyaradzi Gwisai, and other participants at the video showing were planning to “organise, strategise and implement the removal of the consitutional government of Zimbabwe… the Egyptian way.”
Defence lawyer Alec Muchadehama said he has been denied access to the detainees since they were taken into custody.
Outrage at the arrests, torture and the charges is spreading across Africa and around the world.
Bongani Masuku of the 1.8 million-strong Congress of South African Trade Unions (Cosatu) has pledged the support of his organisation.
He said, “It is no doubt that the Egyptian and Tunisian experiences have inspired many workers and poor people all over the world to stand up and demand an end to dictatorship, corruption and injustice of whatever kind.
“The Cosatu condemns the continued persecution of political activists in Zimbabwe and the never improving situation in that country.
“The detention of about 52 activists of the International Socialist Organisation (ISO) in Harare on baseless charges of plotting to topple the government indicates the state of insecurity in that country.”
The Commonwealth Policy Studies Institute yesterday added its name to calls for “unconditional release” of those who have been jailed.
With stakes this high, activists in Zimbabwe are urgently calling on for statements of protest to be rushed to the addresses, phone and fax numbers below:
Send statements of protest to:
* [email protected] and copy to
* [email protected] and
* [email protected]
* Fax a copy to the Embassy of the Republic of Zimbabwe in London on 020 7379 1167
* You can also email it to [email protected]
* or post to Embassy of the Republic of Zimbabwe, Zimbabwe House, 429 Strand, London, WC2R 0QE
The Ambassador is Mr Gabriel Mharadze Machinga.
Also phone:
* Wayne Bvudzijena (police spokesman): +263 11 801 172 (mobile)
* Happyton Bonyongwe (Director of the Central Intelligence Organisation): +263 4 497 849 (home)
* Patrick Chinamasa (minister of “Justice”
: +263 4 860 006 (home)
* President’s Office: +263 4 252 440 or +263 4 700 071
* Police Commisioner Augustine Chihuri: +263 4 250 008 (office) or +263 11 808 290 (mobile)
* Home Affairs (police) Minister Kembo Mohadi: +263 11 605 424 (mobile) or +263 4 794628 (office)
* State Security (CIO) Minister Didymus Mutasa: +263 11 200 532 (mobile) or 263 4 774189 (office)
http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=24027
Zimbabweans face possible death sentence for discussing Egyptian Revolution
by Yuri Prasad
A group of socialists in Zimbabwe face a possible death sentence for watching a video about the Egyptian Revolution.
Some 52 activists were charged with treason and “subverting a constitutionally elected government” in a Harare court yesterday (Wednesday).
The attack is part of a general clampdown organised by the dictatorship of Robert Mugabe in advance of possible elections later this year. He fears that the wave of uprisings in the Middle East and north Africa could spread south.
Police arrested the group on Saturday of last week following a raid on a meeting to discuss the implications of the Egyptian Revolution for Zimbabwe that was organised by the International Socialist Organization (ISO).
The accused were led into court on Wednesday hand cuffed and in leg irons.
Many had sustained injuries while in detention, and all—including those who are HIV positive—have been prevented from receiving medical attention and drugs.
One of those charged has only recently been discharged from hospital following brain surgery. Another detainee who broke her leg after being thrown down a two-storey stairwell during the raid is also being denied proper care.
State prosecutors allege that leading ISO activist and former opposition member of parliament, Munyaradzi Gwisai, and other participants at the video showing were planning to “organise, strategise and implement the removal of the consitutional government of Zimbabwe… the Egyptian way.”
Defence lawyer Alec Muchadehama said he has been denied access to the detainees since they were taken into custody.
Outrage at the arrests, torture and the charges is spreading across Africa and around the world.
Bongani Masuku of the 1.8 million-strong Congress of South African Trade Unions (Cosatu) has pledged the support of his organisation.
He said, “It is no doubt that the Egyptian and Tunisian experiences have inspired many workers and poor people all over the world to stand up and demand an end to dictatorship, corruption and injustice of whatever kind.
“The Cosatu condemns the continued persecution of political activists in Zimbabwe and the never improving situation in that country.
“The detention of about 52 activists of the International Socialist Organisation (ISO) in Harare on baseless charges of plotting to topple the government indicates the state of insecurity in that country.”
The Commonwealth Policy Studies Institute yesterday added its name to calls for “unconditional release” of those who have been jailed.
With stakes this high, activists in Zimbabwe are urgently calling on for statements of protest to be rushed to the addresses, phone and fax numbers below:
Send statements of protest to:
* [email protected] and copy to
* [email protected] and
* [email protected]
* Fax a copy to the Embassy of the Republic of Zimbabwe in London on 020 7379 1167
* You can also email it to [email protected]
* or post to Embassy of the Republic of Zimbabwe, Zimbabwe House, 429 Strand, London, WC2R 0QE
The Ambassador is Mr Gabriel Mharadze Machinga.
Also phone:
* Wayne Bvudzijena (police spokesman): +263 11 801 172 (mobile)
* Happyton Bonyongwe (Director of the Central Intelligence Organisation): +263 4 497 849 (home)
* Patrick Chinamasa (minister of “Justice”
: +263 4 860 006 (home)* President’s Office: +263 4 252 440 or +263 4 700 071
* Police Commisioner Augustine Chihuri: +263 4 250 008 (office) or +263 11 808 290 (mobile)
* Home Affairs (police) Minister Kembo Mohadi: +263 11 605 424 (mobile) or +263 4 794628 (office)
* State Security (CIO) Minister Didymus Mutasa: +263 11 200 532 (mobile) or 263 4 774189 (office)