The War

identity-x · Mar 26, 2003

is it okay we have at least ONE thread on the board regarding the war? i know it's not tech related, but it's big national news and the bickering back and forth in the "Tech at the Gathering" thread was just muddling it up anyway. why not create one thread and have everyoen post views there?

*prays thread isn't closed*

I know the majority of people on this site and the majority of Americans support the war because they believe Iraq is a "threat to national security" or because he's and "evil dictator". fine...point taken. saddam should be ousted and the people of that country should, with the help of countries likethe US, develop their own government.

a good deal of war supporters shrug off those who express disdain for the war as tree-hugging liberal hippy pussys who live in a pipe dream for thinking such a thing as world peace is possible. granted some protesters ARE tree-hugging liberal hippy pussys, but for the most part the line of thinking regarding their stance on the war is a direct result of past actions by the US regarding international social policy. namely, that the United States is only interested in foreign conflicts if intervention into these conflicts can be used as a means of lining the pocketbooks of the upper 1%. The US has a history of invasions of other nations in order to set up puppet governments friendly to our lust for money.......

the following are some examples (taken from another board btw)...

How about the US hidden invasion of Panama which killed 4x more civilians than Iraq's invasion of Kuwait???
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/C...don_Panama.html

Or the secret invasion of Cambodia....which congress even determined to be illegal???
http://www.cardamom.org/history4.html

Or the invasion of Haiti dubbed "Operation Restore Hope"
http://www.arg-media.com/articles/foreign/for3.htm

This is not to mention the involvement in numerous secret wars and coup d'etats to fulfill US interests in order to install puppet govts in places such as:

Chlie (this was big one...killed Tens of thousands of people under our puppet Augusto Pinochet):
http://www.namebase.org/chile.html

The recent attempted coup in Venezuela:
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/S..._Venezuela.html

Guatemala:
http://www.paperlessarchives.com/guat.html

and many many more.....this history (if you are American) is your own and is open to your study if you care to get past "nightly news"

identity-x · Mar 26, 2003

with that said, here's an aritcle I came across just yesterday.

it's not hard to make a link between this article and the post i just made

NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - The first contracts for rebuilding post-war Iraq have been awarded, and Vice President Dick Cheney's old employer, Halliburton Co., is one of the early winners.

The Kellogg Brown & Root (KBR) unit of Halliburton (HAL: Research, Estimates), of which Cheney was CEO from 1995-2000, was awarded a contract late Monday by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers to put out oil fires and make emergency repairs in Iraq.

Halliburton wouldn't disclose the monetary value of the contract, under which Halliburton will put into action some of the firefighting and repair plans it detailed for the Army in a study in conducted in November.

"KBR's ... contract is limited to task orders under the contract for only those services which are necessary to support the mission in near term," Halliburton spokeswoman Wendy Hall said.

Army Corps of Engineers representatives could not be reached for comment.

The most critical part of the contract could be the "emergency repairs" portion, which could put Halliburton in prime position to handle the complete refurbishment of Iraq's long-neglected oil infrastructure.

Getting Iraq's oil fields to pre-1991 production levels will take at least 18 months and cost about $5 billion initially, with another $3 billion in annual operating expenses, according to a recent study by the James A. Baker III Institute for Public Policy at Rice University, named for the first President Bush's Secretary of State during the first Gulf War.

Though none of the potential administrators of such a contract -- including the Defense Department, the State Department's U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) and the United Nations -- have claimed responsibility for handing out the job, Monday's award could mean the Defense Department will be in charge.

Halliburton said it has subcontracted the firefighting portion of the Army contract to Houston-based companies Boots & Coots International Well Control Inc. (WEL: Research, Estimates) and Wild Well Control, Inc., a private company.

Hall of Halliburton said the fires should be put out in about 240 days. Very few oil wells have been set ablaze by Iraqis so far, in contrast to the first Gulf War in 1991, when Iraqi troops retreating from Kuwait set fire to more than 700 Kuwaiti oil wells. Halliburton's KBR unit was involved in putting out the 1991 fires.

Separately, USAID late Monday awarded a $4.8 million contract to Stevedoring Services of America (SSA), a private company based in Seattle, to manage the Umm Qasr ports in southern Iraq.

Umm Qasr's ports, where U.S. and British troops have struggled for full control, are seen as critical to efforts to bring humanitarian relief to Iraqis. SSA will handle several tasks, including assessing the need for dredging and repairs to the ports and unloading and warehousing cargo.

USAID plans to issue seven other contracts, including one for $600 million for general construction work in post-war Iraq. Halliburton is among several companies reported to have put in bids for that contract.

drdrew · Mar 26, 2003

that shit was too long to read for me

...

but i hope that shit means you support the war & def hope you aren't crushin on america here..

PhatActPlaya² · Mar 26, 2003

watch bowling 4 columbine
Michel Moore the dude with the OSCAR

JLMACN · Mar 26, 2003

........................

^^^^^^^^^
EXACTLY DREW!

5000

Zer0.MediA · Mar 26, 2003

Who are you kidding!? The kats in the crowd of protests are just there to stand around and feel like they're doing something. They think this is the 70's and they're going to be neo-hippies. Half the people there don't even know what they are there for and the other half can't explain shit to you other than "No blood for oil". I know this for fact because I went to one of these "protests" and saw a bunch of fools who wanted to be on TV, wanted to feel good about themselves, and didn't know their head from their asshole.

Also, I'm sure you didn't seek that information out yourself. What anti-war spam mail did you get?

Zer0.MediA · Mar 26, 2003

Micheal Moore is a fat pussy who I'd punch in the face even BEFORE this war. When Monica Lewinsky got done with Bill Clinton, Micheal Moore was the first one in line to get under the desk.

MasZive · Mar 26, 2003

FUCK BUSH!!!! HE'S PUSSY!!!

WHEN YOU LIVE IN A COUNTRY THAT VALUES MONEY OVER A HUMAN LIFE, WHAT THE FUCK ELSE CAN YOU SAY... ALL OF THIS VOTING AND WAR AND LIVING IN THIS FUCKING COUNTRY ALL BOILS DOWN TO HOW MUCH MONEY THEY CAN MAKE, MONEY, MONEY, MONEY... THAT IS THE ROOT OF WHAT EVERYTHING THESE FUCKIN' PEOPLE ARE GETTING AT. ANYTHING THAT HAS TO DEAL WITH A PRESIDENT I DON GIVE A SHIT, BECAUSE IT DOESN'T BENEFIT ME ONE BIT. LOOK AT THE FUCKIN' PERCENTAGE OF PEOPLE IN POVERY IN OUR COUNTRY, WHO THE FUCK CAN SURVIVE ON 5.15 AN HOUR, WHO THE FUCK GIVES A SHIT ABOUT TAXES, WHO THE FUCK GIVES A SHIT ABOUT OIL, IT DOESN'T BENEFIT ME, NOR MY KIDS, OR MY KIDS, KIDS...

I HOPE THEY FIND NOTHING OVER THERE, SO WE CAN KNOW THAT THIS WAR IS ALL ABOUT BUSH GETTING REVENGE FOR HIS PUSSY FATHER!!! I HONESTLY PRAY THAT THEY FIND NOTHING OVER THERE, BECAUSE IF HE'S BACK IN OFFICE NEXT YEAR.....

WHETHER YALL KNOW IT OR NOT, BUSH'S CAMP DOESN'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT NOTHING, OR NO ONE. AND WHOMEVER VOTED FOR THAT BLOODSUCKER SHOULD BE HANGED. HE STOLE THE ELECTION TOO, AND LET GORE HAD WON, THEY WOULD'VE HAD A RECOUNT COMPLETELY... FUCKIN' CROOKED BASTARDS...
THERE IS SOMETHING ABSOLUTELY WRONG WITH THAT MAN, AND FOR THOSE THAT SUPPORT THIS WAR, THEM TOO. I SUPPORT THE SOLDIERS THAT ARE OVER THERE LOSING THEIR LIVE'S AND PUTTING THEMSELVES ON THE LINE FOR SOME REVENGE GEORGE WANTS TO SETTLE. LOOK AT THE FUCKERS NAME. GEORGE, THAT JUST SOUNDS RIDICULOUS. THE U.S. IS GREEDY AND WHEN ITS ALL SAID AND DONE, IT'S ALL ABOUT MONEY OVER A HUMAN LIFE...

GET MAD IF YOU WANT TO, KISS MY ASS AND GO TO HELL WITH THE DICKHEAD!!!

THE DIXIE CHICKS WERE RIGHT, THEY SHOULD BE ASHAMED THAT BUSH IS FROM TEXAS, AND I AM ASHAMED THAT BUSH IS FROM THE U.S. TO THEM WE ARE THE LITTLE PEOPLE, AND THE DECISIONS THAT ARE MADE UP THERE DONT HAVE SHIT TO DO WITH US, AND US MEANING YOU, IF YOU DONT AGREE WITH ME, THEN YOU ARE AS BLIND AS THE REST OF THE PEOPLE THAT ARE IN FAVOR OF BUSH AND HIS DECISIONS... HE'S NOT PROTECTING THIS COUNTRY, HE'S KILLING MORE PEOPLE THAN HE'S HELPING. AND WHEN ITS ALL SAID AND DONE, WE ARE ALL STILL GONNA BE SHIT FOR HIM TO STEP ON.

WE HAVE MORE THINGS TO WORRY ABOUT THAN WAR, WE NEED TO FIX WHAT'S OVER HERE, AND QUIT DIPPIN OUR NOSES IN SHIT THAT DOESN'T CONCERN US. I COULD GO ON AND ON ABOUT SHIT, LIKE EDUCATION, AND MEDICARE AND SHIT LIKE THAT, THAT COULD BE FUNDED, THAT WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN OUR COUNTRY THAT IS CONSTANTLY OVER LOOKED, BUT SINCE HE WANTS TO GO THAT ROUTE FUCK HIM AND EVERYONE ELSE THAT MAKES DECISIONS FOR THE PEOPLE THEY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT. AND FUCK GENGRICH TOO.

I'M TIRED NOW, SORRY FOR THAT, BUT I HAD SOME SHIT TO GET OFF MY MIND. LoL!!!!
OUT!!!

drdrew · Mar 26, 2003

maszive.. you are in this country either way the war goes, so you might as well support that shit.. we are doin this to stop another SEPT 11th from happening again..

that's my point.. you see what i'm sayin at all?

ohh yea.. might see ya this weekend man..

MasZive · Mar 26, 2003

I support the soldiers, but not the war... Never in a million years... Another Spet. 11th can happen whether they go over there or not, or regardless of the outcome it can still happen. I sill hope that they fine nothing so I can prove my point to some people... They'll probably plant something over there to make it seem like he had some shit going on... I know how bitch ass Bush thinks....

Fruntsch · Mar 26, 2003

but don´t you think "another" SET.11th is inescapable because of this war??
they arrested a few"terorrists" a couple of days ago here in Germany, planning an assassination.....BECAUSE of this war....

Someone will take revenge....for this war??!!

identity-x · Mar 26, 2003

Zer0.MediA said:

and, sadly, these cocksuckers are the ones who give the rest of the protesters a bad name. don't pay them any mind. they remind me an awful lot of devout teenage Eminem followers or Juggalos (or anyone following thoe cockasses Good Charlotte). for some this is their only way of forming an identity. their rally cry is "I WANT TO BE A PART OF SOMETHING! FUCK THE ESTABLISHMENT! I DON'T WANT OT CONFORM I DON'T WANT TO BE JUST LIKE YOU BECAUSE I'M AN INDIVIDUAL" (meanwhile the end up conforming to EVERYONE else who goes against the grain merely for going angainst the grain

the key is to engage in some intellectual debate with someone who sees through the American war propaganda. some anti-war proponents have developed an opinion that actually has a basis (see my FIRST post). i mean do you really think our government acts in the interest of the entire US or entire world? we perform military action when there is someting in it for us...why else did we SUPPORT Saddam Hussein and his regime when we were at odds with Iran

Zer0.MediA said:

the links in the first post were posted at another message board. it's not like i've never come across similar sources

and the second link tying the rebuilding of Iraq with American Oil companys? that was on the FRONT page of CNN Money.com yesterday

http://money.cnn.com/2003/03/25/news/companies/war_contracts/index.htm

drdrew · Mar 26, 2003

yes they will, but i believe the risk of saddam & his BIO-CHEMICAL warfare.. ppl need to realize this threat..

do you let some cat sit outside your house hearin him tell you he hates you & have him be producing a shitload of chemicals to come kill you someday in the near future.. & then when you look thru his window, he's sittin there with a VILE of shit & pointing at it & you, makin the impression he is about to use it on you.. then you call the cops & the dude wont let them in to see what he is doin over there..

i'm pretty sure you would handle the matter yourself & prolly blow up the house or sumthin.. basically to take the threat away.

I DO AGREE however there a MANY OTHER reasons why BUSH wants to do this. economy, oil, money, power.. but shit man, look at it from both sides..

hope you know i'm not tryin to start shit with ya.. just givin my POV..

identity-x · Mar 26, 2003

agreed to the last few posts before mine

the idea that this war is solely for the security of Americans is laughable. sure Saddam had the capability to invade neighboring countries and cause a ruckus.

Kim Jong, the leader of N. Korea has done equally dispicable things to his people and has proven time and again to be violent and unstable. his government said "hey we're going to build nukes and there is nothing anyone can do about it so fuck off"

why isn't this seen as a threat?

i suppose the real question is what can we get out of going to war with N. Korea?

identity-x · Mar 26, 2003

drdrew said:

i follow totally. that's what I'm trying to get across too lol

Saddam and his cronies need a major bitch slapping. nobody denies this. but to think the the sole reason of this war is to protect the lives of innocent americans or to think that Saddam is the next Hitler and poses the biggest threat to national security than any person past or present is plain ignorance!

Heat Myser · Mar 26, 2003

Call me an asshole and get the noose ready...cause I voted for Bush last time and will vote for him again. BTW MasZive...I don't think you understand the full scope of what is going on....but like I said in the other thread - the beauty of America is that assholes like me and you can live side by side.

I just think its real funny that very few of the anit-war (or should I say anti-Bush, anti-Republican) cats weren't dancing in the street against Clinton when he bombed Iraq without UN sanction.

Everybody wants to bash Bush now, but if he didn't do anything and somebody got a bomb into the US.....Bush would be blamed. I think if a terrosrist put a dirty bomb in the middle of the fucking protestors in San Francisco they might change their tune a bit (at least the half intelligent ones that are there just to be "trendy") or if you had Susan Sarandon, Martin Sheen, and Sean Penn at the Academy Awards and a terrorist set off a bomb there...that would be some shit. I think if Mrs Sarandon or Mr Sheen lost an arm or got a face full of shrapnel they might change there tune.

A person that you all respect on this board ( most of you at least) and I were talking the other day......and he brought up the fact that all the protestors need to go visit GROUND ZERO.....have we forgotten what happened? I personally think we need to do everything possible to preventy that happening again even if it means attacking and putting "puppet governments" in Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Syria, and North Korea.

I am done....thanks for your time.

drdrew · Mar 26, 2003

thanks heat.. you read my mind homey

identity-x · Mar 26, 2003

drdrew said:

here's anothe question for you and everyone else...follows the same line.

if some dude has a truckful of brown paper sacks full of doodoo(ready to be set on fire and tossed at you no doubt!) and he pulls up and says to you "hey...i see you are filling that small box of paper bags with doodoo. what are you going to do with them? i'm afraid you might use it to hurt myself or others. you can't do such a thing because having those bag full of doodoo might hurt other people. please throw all the bags away"

i'd laugh at the fucker

think about it, step back, and realize how countries (Iraq) could feel similarly toward the truck full of doodoo paper sack weapons

drdrew · Mar 26, 2003

lets compare things that are the same.

or atleast a lil closer than your idea

i was at least talkin bout chemical warfare, not doodoo

Heat Myser · Mar 26, 2003

identity-x said:

We are at war with Sadaam to prevent another Kim Jong.

If we attack North Korea at this point shit is going to get ugly...they have us between a rock and a hard place since they have the WMD. It makes sense to me that we must take Sadaam out before he can terrorise the world with nuclear weapons. Diplomacy is the only viable option at this point with N Korea.

The War

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