The Los Angeles Lakers
- Thread starter IronLungs420
- Start date
I actually go ghost on the siccness every so often and forget about this website for a few months. The season was also over at that point. Even if they won, I'm not gonna sit there and make threads in the offseason about how they won the chip. The 49ers are my favorite team and have been since I was a kid, but I'm not blowing up the Niners or Super Bowl threads either.
Just to name a couple, Jordan and Kareem. Both couldn't really be stopped for the most part and were great throughout their careers. Kareem is the all time leader. Jordan was basically un-guardable for a LONG time in his career and also has much higher shooting percentages for a career. Jordan has more career points and quit during his prime. He also has 100 fewer games played than Kobe already has and he's still ahead of him right now by 2000+ points, averaged almost 5 ppg more over a career which is a lot.
Kareem is a better player by a pretty wide margin to me than Kobe, and I'd say he is the best Laker. If you argue that his best years were in Milwaukee, you'd be correct and I can understand giving him a hit for that though the Lakers were a better team. He's easily in the top 5 greatest players, Kobe is not (at least to me) and if I were building a team, I'd take a 34 year old Kareem over Kobe all day long.
If not Kareem, then Magic. MUCH, MUCH better player. I don't think much needs to be said there although I'm sure you don't agree.
Just to name a couple, Jordan and Kareem. Both couldn't really be stopped for the most part and were great throughout their careers. Kareem is the all time leader. Jordan was basically un-guardable for a LONG time in his career and also has much higher shooting percentages for a career. Jordan has more career points and quit during his prime. He also has 100 fewer games played than Kobe already has and he's still ahead of him right now by 2000+ points, averaged almost 5 ppg more over a career which is a lot.
Kareem is a better player by a pretty wide margin to me than Kobe, and I'd say he is the best Laker. If you argue that his best years were in Milwaukee, you'd be correct and I can understand giving him a hit for that though the Lakers were a better team. He's easily in the top 5 greatest players, Kobe is not (at least to me) and if I were building a team, I'd take a 34 year old Kareem over Kobe all day long.
If not Kareem, then Magic. MUCH, MUCH better player. I don't think much needs to be said there although I'm sure you don't agree.
Props:
Rasan and IronLungs420
the iron lungs defense when the lakers lose:
1 - talk about the legend of kobe/lakers
2 - post a behind the scenes pic or twitter message regarding the lakers on some random shit
all that dont hide the fact your squad is in trouble. whats funny is that all the other lakers 'fans' in this forum wont even help you in this thread. that is #classic
1 - talk about the legend of kobe/lakers
2 - post a behind the scenes pic or twitter message regarding the lakers on some random shit
all that dont hide the fact your squad is in trouble. whats funny is that all the other lakers 'fans' in this forum wont even help you in this thread. that is #classic
Props:
Chree and Stony Gwynn
I propped both these comments not because I necessarily agree with them but it is nice to see some opinions backed by some valid points. Instead of the other 90% of people who post on this thread and contribute zero to the discussion. So props for that, with that said I will try to respond to your comments and questions.
Bringing in Dwight and Nash was definitely help for Kobe, but my point wasn't that the help wasn't adequate. My point was and has been that Kobe is 34 years old, he's no longer a kid who can put the team on his back every night. Never did I say Kobe could win a ring by himself at the age of 34. KOBE NEEDS MAJOR HELP, HE'S OLD! which is why I had no problem with dwight joining the lakers and taking over the offense, yeah right a 27 year old Kobe would let that type of player near him. Kobe was willing to give up the team to dwight/nash which shows he is committed to winning at all cost. When Dwight came to LA some people argued he would be "#1" in LA . Well 2 to 3 months in and he's been more like #3. I don't know what's wrong with him. Injuries, coaching, chemistry, or maybe like I had said before he's not cut out for Hollywood and the expectations that come with being a laker. I just don't know, as for Nash he has been gone most of the season and is pushing 40 years old. Then you got Gasol who has been ghost since the 2010 finals, yeah all these guys have names and big resumes but it means shit this season. Look at the Celtics for example, all the accolades mean shit when the opposition is full of studs in their 20's. No excuses though so far this season has been a bust, Lakers fans knew for this season to be a success all things would have to fall perfectly in line. That hasn't been the case though. Even if this team was playing to it's full potential most experts still had the Heat and Thunder as favorites to win it all. I think it's time for the Lakers to blow this thing up and re-up. I hope the transitional period from Elite to fighting for the 8th seed doesn't last as long as it did in the 90's though. This team has a lot of problems with it but #24 is the least of those problems.
Alright my bad only reason I said you went ghost is because you disappeared half was through that series/thread when you had been active most of the playoffs up until that series looked all but over for your squad.
Now for the best scorer of all time argument, you bringing up Jordan and Kareem is completely reasonable. It's not some outlandish opinion so I guess we can agree to disagree, but i do respect your opinion. So here it goes, when I say Kobe is the best scorer of all time I don't mean the best "pure shooter" of all time. When Kobe is on I have never and I repeat never witnessed someone put the ball in the bucket like he does. Kobe is lethal on offense that's what he does, he puts the ball in the bucket at all costs. Nothing fancy just going to destroy whatever defense you throw at him, as for the ppg and percentage Kobe got screwed over because he came in at the age of 17-18. So he pretty much developed his shot in the NBA, he also got very little playing time during his first season. Were Jordan had already spent four years at North Carolina developing his game. Also Jordan has always been the #1 option so of course he never had to give up touches to anyone during his career, the bulls did a great job of surrounding him with talent that complimented his game too. Kobe had to share with Shaq the most dominant center of all time, I'm not complaining though because it was fun watching both play on the same team but a lot of points where taken from Kobe at that time. Kobe also dropped 81 points in a game, in that same season he dropped 60+ on the Mavs in 3 quarters.
Kobe is also the only player over the age of 30 to drop 30+ points in 7 straight games, the other two who got close were Kareem and Jordan who only reached 5 games straight of 30+. Kobe is currently averaging 29 points with 47% shooting from the field, in his 17 season none the less, that is just ridiculous. He has so much miles in his body and he's still working these youngsters. You also brought up the fact that Jordan retired, while that is true he did miss out on points I also think that extended his career. Kobe hasn't taken any time off since he was a rookie. Every year either playoffs, Olympics, or just regular season games have been brutal on him.
Now for the Kareem being the greatest Laker of all time, Kareem is the shit and has the resume to prove it, I agree top 5 of all time. Kareem though had a lot of success in Milwaukee and was never really considered number 1 in LA, that title always belonged to Magic. Magic Johnson got a statue outside of staples center before Kareem did. Magic was showtime and up until Kobe beat the Celtics and got his 5th title, Magic was considered the greatest Laker of all time. Kobe has spent every single one of his 17 seasons with the lakers, he is the ultimate laker. It sucks Magic contracted the aids virus because if that doesn't happen this discussion might be a lot different. When Kobe retires he will own most of the Lakers records, Kobe has pretty much been the main reason the Lakers have been where they are these past 17 years, that is almost two decades of being the face of the franchise.
Bringing in Dwight and Nash was definitely help for Kobe, but my point wasn't that the help wasn't adequate. My point was and has been that Kobe is 34 years old, he's no longer a kid who can put the team on his back every night. Never did I say Kobe could win a ring by himself at the age of 34. KOBE NEEDS MAJOR HELP, HE'S OLD! which is why I had no problem with dwight joining the lakers and taking over the offense, yeah right a 27 year old Kobe would let that type of player near him. Kobe was willing to give up the team to dwight/nash which shows he is committed to winning at all cost. When Dwight came to LA some people argued he would be "#1" in LA . Well 2 to 3 months in and he's been more like #3. I don't know what's wrong with him. Injuries, coaching, chemistry, or maybe like I had said before he's not cut out for Hollywood and the expectations that come with being a laker. I just don't know, as for Nash he has been gone most of the season and is pushing 40 years old. Then you got Gasol who has been ghost since the 2010 finals, yeah all these guys have names and big resumes but it means shit this season. Look at the Celtics for example, all the accolades mean shit when the opposition is full of studs in their 20's. No excuses though so far this season has been a bust, Lakers fans knew for this season to be a success all things would have to fall perfectly in line. That hasn't been the case though. Even if this team was playing to it's full potential most experts still had the Heat and Thunder as favorites to win it all. I think it's time for the Lakers to blow this thing up and re-up. I hope the transitional period from Elite to fighting for the 8th seed doesn't last as long as it did in the 90's though. This team has a lot of problems with it but #24 is the least of those problems.
Alright my bad only reason I said you went ghost is because you disappeared half was through that series/thread when you had been active most of the playoffs up until that series looked all but over for your squad.
Now for the best scorer of all time argument, you bringing up Jordan and Kareem is completely reasonable. It's not some outlandish opinion so I guess we can agree to disagree, but i do respect your opinion. So here it goes, when I say Kobe is the best scorer of all time I don't mean the best "pure shooter" of all time. When Kobe is on I have never and I repeat never witnessed someone put the ball in the bucket like he does. Kobe is lethal on offense that's what he does, he puts the ball in the bucket at all costs. Nothing fancy just going to destroy whatever defense you throw at him, as for the ppg and percentage Kobe got screwed over because he came in at the age of 17-18. So he pretty much developed his shot in the NBA, he also got very little playing time during his first season. Were Jordan had already spent four years at North Carolina developing his game. Also Jordan has always been the #1 option so of course he never had to give up touches to anyone during his career, the bulls did a great job of surrounding him with talent that complimented his game too. Kobe had to share with Shaq the most dominant center of all time, I'm not complaining though because it was fun watching both play on the same team but a lot of points where taken from Kobe at that time. Kobe also dropped 81 points in a game, in that same season he dropped 60+ on the Mavs in 3 quarters.
Kobe is also the only player over the age of 30 to drop 30+ points in 7 straight games, the other two who got close were Kareem and Jordan who only reached 5 games straight of 30+. Kobe is currently averaging 29 points with 47% shooting from the field, in his 17 season none the less, that is just ridiculous. He has so much miles in his body and he's still working these youngsters. You also brought up the fact that Jordan retired, while that is true he did miss out on points I also think that extended his career. Kobe hasn't taken any time off since he was a rookie. Every year either playoffs, Olympics, or just regular season games have been brutal on him.
Now for the Kareem being the greatest Laker of all time, Kareem is the shit and has the resume to prove it, I agree top 5 of all time. Kareem though had a lot of success in Milwaukee and was never really considered number 1 in LA, that title always belonged to Magic. Magic Johnson got a statue outside of staples center before Kareem did. Magic was showtime and up until Kobe beat the Celtics and got his 5th title, Magic was considered the greatest Laker of all time. Kobe has spent every single one of his 17 seasons with the lakers, he is the ultimate laker. It sucks Magic contracted the aids virus because if that doesn't happen this discussion might be a lot different. When Kobe retires he will own most of the Lakers records, Kobe has pretty much been the main reason the Lakers have been where they are these past 17 years, that is almost two decades of being the face of the franchise.
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If it wasn't for injuries i woulda said t-mac was just as good if not a better scorer than kobe... And regardless i would say magic is the greatest laker of all time...
Props:
ALL BOUT CHICKEN
lakers win a ring with 49ers and giants? lmao. fuck the bitch ass lakers. the trifecta would be the warriors, 49ers and giants lmao
fuck the faggot ass lakers andd that bitch ass rapist kobe. putting the weak ass lakers name next to the 49ers and Giants are a disgrace.
Glad to see these bitcches lose again tonight
fuck the faggot ass lakers andd that bitch ass rapist kobe. putting the weak ass lakers name next to the 49ers and Giants are a disgrace.
Glad to see these bitcches lose again tonight
i dont understand how you have all that talent and not make it work? horrible..grizzlies smashed on them last night
Props:
Rossibreath
because instead of maximizing his player's talents, dantoni is trying to max his system and stooped low enough to put in earl clark to achieve that.
Props:
Rossibreath
The Jordan vs. Kobe thing isn't even a debate. Not just as far as statistics but in overall skill and intangible things like being a better teammate, leader, clutch player etc... It's not even close.
One of the main reasons I say Kareem and Magic are better players is because, if I were building a team of all time greats, Kobe wouldn't even be on it more than likely. MAYBE a bench player at best. As this season has shown, Kobe can be surrounded by talent yet that doesn't help the team win games. Kobe is a great scorer, no question and he's been great for the Lakers and being there that long with the same team helps his claim as being the best Laker, I'll admit. But he's not the best to me. Some agree, some don't.
Another side point though, Jordan never won a championship without Phil Jackson and almost every team in history if I remember correctly has had 2 hall of famers most of the time on the team that won. Jordan always had at least one hall of famer on his championship teams if not 2 (Pippen and Rodman). Jordan did play at UNC but you have to remember, he never really played basketball until halfway through high school. Kobe had a huge head start there. Jordan wasn't known for his shooting ability or defense. His drive led him to silence all of his critics, something Kobe has never done. He's been a notoriously bad teammate/ballhog his entire career and still is. Jordan was knocked for not having a great midrange/3 pt shot and worked tirelessly to improve there. Also became defensive player of the year and I think he lead the league in steals 3 times, something Kobe never did.
One of the main reasons I say Kareem and Magic are better players is because, if I were building a team of all time greats, Kobe wouldn't even be on it more than likely. MAYBE a bench player at best. As this season has shown, Kobe can be surrounded by talent yet that doesn't help the team win games. Kobe is a great scorer, no question and he's been great for the Lakers and being there that long with the same team helps his claim as being the best Laker, I'll admit. But he's not the best to me. Some agree, some don't.
Another side point though, Jordan never won a championship without Phil Jackson and almost every team in history if I remember correctly has had 2 hall of famers most of the time on the team that won. Jordan always had at least one hall of famer on his championship teams if not 2 (Pippen and Rodman). Jordan did play at UNC but you have to remember, he never really played basketball until halfway through high school. Kobe had a huge head start there. Jordan wasn't known for his shooting ability or defense. His drive led him to silence all of his critics, something Kobe has never done. He's been a notoriously bad teammate/ballhog his entire career and still is. Jordan was knocked for not having a great midrange/3 pt shot and worked tirelessly to improve there. Also became defensive player of the year and I think he lead the league in steals 3 times, something Kobe never did.
Props:
ALL BOUT CHICKEN
The problem with this Laker team is Kobe. The 30pt stat actually does matter. Kobe is trying to carry this team instead of helping it grow into something that could work. No one on the team trusts each other on the court. This team could easily get it together and knocked out 25 wins straight. But Kobe will take a guarded shot instead of passing to an open Dwight in the paint. He'll run an ISO play instead of letting Nash have the ball and using ball movement. So now, Kobe has the ball with Pao up around the elbow, Dwight down low, Steve Nash picking his butt and MWP hoping to catch the ball for an open 3 or waiting for a rebound. That's a recipe for failure and not playing to the teams strengths at all.