The Big Picture: Drugs
- Thread starter D-Rose
- Start date
My bad, I misinterpreted your post, I thought you were referring only to picture #5.
Actually that is incorrect. Drink driving, and alcohol related crimes increased during prohibition.
Source: Thorton, Mark. “Policy Analysis: Alcohol Prohibition Was a Failure.” July 17, 1991
We shouldn't :classic:
Edit: The graph is hard to read but the title is "Murder in America" and the red highlight portions are prohibition and war on drugs time periods.
For the same reason that if we were having a discussion on geology I would reference the opinions of geologists
And my comments are that statistics show that more stringent laws in the regulation of alcohol and illegal drugs have shown an increase in the negative consequences surrounding both the use and trade of the substance.
Actually that is incorrect. Drink driving, and alcohol related crimes increased during prohibition.
Source: Thorton, Mark. “Policy Analysis: Alcohol Prohibition Was a Failure.” July 17, 1991
We shouldn't :classic:
Edit: The graph is hard to read but the title is "Murder in America" and the red highlight portions are prohibition and war on drugs time periods.
For the same reason that if we were having a discussion on geology I would reference the opinions of geologists
And my comments are that statistics show that more stringent laws in the regulation of alcohol and illegal drugs have shown an increase in the negative consequences surrounding both the use and trade of the substance.
Mr. Nice Guy wrote:
n.p.
You're reading things incorrectly again. You asked, "What happened to the violence attributed to the trade when alcohol was first declared illegal and re declared legal in the US?" This is what I answered with, "Yes violence happened, and then violence died down." So read that again declared illegal = violence happened, laws repealled = violence died down.
Then I followed that with, "However, we now have an increase in drunken drivers, drunk driving related accidents and crimes that have a correlation attributed to alcohol use."
Which they should have because you had a large decline in safe manufacturing and processing. However, poisoned liquor deaths are not the only things related to crimes that have a correlation to alcohol. What about rape (especially date rape), domestic violence and assaults? Do you have those stats as well? And to remind you, I'm talking about the numbers then and how they compare to the numbers now (and I stated "now" in my previous post.)
Are these two examples comparing pre prohibition and prohibition or prohibition to post prohibition? (At this time I'm defining post prohibition as the time it ended and adding on 13 years because that is how long it lasted. I'm not extending it to the 70's and the ATF.)
The chart stops in 1970, and I can't really make anything else out of it.
Your confusion may stem from the fact you thought I was talking about pic #5. So let me state this again, I already know there are people, whom for whatever reason, think drugs should be legalized. The fact that I asked the question is proof of this, however, I am asking them about the pics, and the pics are not just pics of violence. They are pics of poverty, child endangerment, potential disease and violence. With that being said, I once again ask you, why are you telling me about those who believe legalization may prevent violence when it has nothing to do with my question? Moreover, you were the one who mentioned cops and dea, and as far as I can tell, they are not here. Again, why are you telling me about them?
I'll address your stats:
That is New York City, what about the nation as a whole? Moreover, have you taken into account that before it was illegal that there were no licensed crack manufacturing plants in America? This is different from prohibition because they had breweries, wineries, etc before prohibition was implemented.
Again, this is one section. What about the rest of Canada? In addition, the researchers themselves don't seem too sure about their own research. They said their results probably explain reports of....Moreover, if they can't stand firm in their own findings, how am I to assume that what they say about the Americans is real? Either your research is conclusive one way or it is inconclusive and "probably" looks suspect and is inconclusive.
@Neshani, I'll answer your post when I get back.
n.p.
You're reading things incorrectly again. You asked, "What happened to the violence attributed to the trade when alcohol was first declared illegal and re declared legal in the US?" This is what I answered with, "Yes violence happened, and then violence died down." So read that again declared illegal = violence happened, laws repealled = violence died down.
Then I followed that with, "However, we now have an increase in drunken drivers, drunk driving related accidents and crimes that have a correlation attributed to alcohol use."
Which they should have because you had a large decline in safe manufacturing and processing. However, poisoned liquor deaths are not the only things related to crimes that have a correlation to alcohol. What about rape (especially date rape), domestic violence and assaults? Do you have those stats as well? And to remind you, I'm talking about the numbers then and how they compare to the numbers now (and I stated "now" in my previous post.)
Are these two examples comparing pre prohibition and prohibition or prohibition to post prohibition? (At this time I'm defining post prohibition as the time it ended and adding on 13 years because that is how long it lasted. I'm not extending it to the 70's and the ATF.)
The chart stops in 1970, and I can't really make anything else out of it.
For the same reason that if we were having a discussion on geology I would reference the opinions of geologists
I'll address your stats:
That is New York City, what about the nation as a whole? Moreover, have you taken into account that before it was illegal that there were no licensed crack manufacturing plants in America? This is different from prohibition because they had breweries, wineries, etc before prohibition was implemented.
Again, this is one section. What about the rest of Canada? In addition, the researchers themselves don't seem too sure about their own research. They said their results probably explain reports of....Moreover, if they can't stand firm in their own findings, how am I to assume that what they say about the Americans is real? Either your research is conclusive one way or it is inconclusive and "probably" looks suspect and is inconclusive.
@Neshani, I'll answer your post when I get back.
The pictures convey violence, greed, and personal destruction--the drugs/drug-trade channels these ignorance's. That is to say, these are traits which exist regardless of drugs. And since prohibiting drugs does not rid the country of them entirely, such prohibition is essentially worthless.
Instead, it transforms the drug into an object of high value. I believe this is what increases its prevalence among the poor. People's fear of widespread drug use forces a high concentration in small areas. There is still widespread availability of most drugs in this country and that availability only suffers from irregular circulation.
To me, the problem with drugs is like the problem with safe sex in parts of Africa. There isn't an open or intelligent dialogue to empower people. You have a vested interest (the pope) telling people with AIDS not to use condoms and a population that doesn't always understand its disease.
If we legalize drugs we change the criminal into the person with a medical problem and treat them and their problem with care instead of persecution. If the problem is taken up with that attitude, then eventually drug addiction would be much easier to cure and prevent because it would be treated like any other disease.
Instead, it transforms the drug into an object of high value. I believe this is what increases its prevalence among the poor. People's fear of widespread drug use forces a high concentration in small areas. There is still widespread availability of most drugs in this country and that availability only suffers from irregular circulation.
To me, the problem with drugs is like the problem with safe sex in parts of Africa. There isn't an open or intelligent dialogue to empower people. You have a vested interest (the pope) telling people with AIDS not to use condoms and a population that doesn't always understand its disease.
If we legalize drugs we change the criminal into the person with a medical problem and treat them and their problem with care instead of persecution. If the problem is taken up with that attitude, then eventually drug addiction would be much easier to cure and prevent because it would be treated like any other disease.
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2-0 Sixx
u should definitely try to go to Chang Mai while ur in Thailand. while ur there check out the night market. that city is beautiful. bangkok is meh
about the drugs....i certainly dont think hardcore drugs should be legal. i think medical marijuana should be and i think that entheogens and other psychadelics should be allowed in a ceremonial setting like what is aloud with ayahuasca in some places. i think labeling everything as "drugs" is a mistake, and that they are very different from each other and should be handled in a case by case basis. but id personally like to see drugs like opium, heroine and cocaine taken of the map. cokes not even that fun...
u should definitely try to go to Chang Mai while ur in Thailand. while ur there check out the night market. that city is beautiful. bangkok is meh
about the drugs....i certainly dont think hardcore drugs should be legal. i think medical marijuana should be and i think that entheogens and other psychadelics should be allowed in a ceremonial setting like what is aloud with ayahuasca in some places. i think labeling everything as "drugs" is a mistake, and that they are very different from each other and should be handled in a case by case basis. but id personally like to see drugs like opium, heroine and cocaine taken of the map. cokes not even that fun...