Social Philosophy
- Thread starter Stealth
- Start date
One of the rules would be to love your fellow man as yourself. If you love your fellow man as yourself you would not rob him, kill him, slander him, accuse him of something he didn't do etc. Also, less emphasis would be placed on skin tone and nationality.
Btw, has anyone read "UTOPIA" by Thomas More?
Btw, has anyone read "UTOPIA" by Thomas More?
Don't forget hemp takes care of a SHITLOAD of problems, clothing, paper, and I believe cars could probably run off of hemp oil too. The REAL reason it was made illegal, according to the Congressional documents, is that half of marijuana users became addicted to heroin because they smoked weed. I looked it up, saw it myself, and was disgusted. Society didn't do shit because they weren't informed correctly, nor were they really informed at all, they were just told to FEAR the "marijuana addict."
But Heresy, you do have a good point, I was talking about Christianity and America, not most other countries or religions. I might include Catholisism (sp?) too....
But Heresy, you do have a good point, I was talking about Christianity and America, not most other countries or religions. I might include Catholisism (sp?) too....
I still don't agree with this. Just because the municipal government voted on it does not mean that the people voted on it. While I agree that there are a lot of issues that the people vote on, I still feel that the government is voting on the majority of issues without the consent of the people with respect to prohibitive laws. I would be incorrect to say that the government is the only one who votes on them, but you would be incorrect say that the government doesn't make them.
I agree that people aren't doing as much as they could, but in today's society, anybody who speaks out on an issue like this is often set up and brought down by the government. I supposed it is still my fault because I dont want to be a martyr for marijuana. But the question at hand is, if you could create a perfect society, how would you do it. And in my society, prohibitive laws would not be needed. And it still stands that, at the incipience of the law, it was the government and not the people. And since then the government has been doing nothing but misinforming and brainwashing people about the issue. Keep in mind that just because large numbers of people aren't going to the courts on a daily basis in favor of marijuana (for fear of the public label and negative stigma of a drug user) there is still an extremely large underground movement taking place.
So I guess the problems highlighted here are (1) The government making prohibitive laws laws based on misinformation/without public consent; (2) The people having such a low level of self efficacy that they feel that standing up to the government would be pointless; (3) The level of misinformation/brainwashing on the people which keeps the government in control.
I agree that people aren't doing as much as they could, but in today's society, anybody who speaks out on an issue like this is often set up and brought down by the government. I supposed it is still my fault because I dont want to be a martyr for marijuana. But the question at hand is, if you could create a perfect society, how would you do it. And in my society, prohibitive laws would not be needed. And it still stands that, at the incipience of the law, it was the government and not the people. And since then the government has been doing nothing but misinforming and brainwashing people about the issue. Keep in mind that just because large numbers of people aren't going to the courts on a daily basis in favor of marijuana (for fear of the public label and negative stigma of a drug user) there is still an extremely large underground movement taking place.
So I guess the problems highlighted here are (1) The government making prohibitive laws laws based on misinformation/without public consent; (2) The people having such a low level of self efficacy that they feel that standing up to the government would be pointless; (3) The level of misinformation/brainwashing on the people which keeps the government in control.
You are entitled to do so (not that I even care), but you are incorrect.
No one said this was the case in all situations, however laws that are derived from community issues (late night noise, underaged drinking in a park) or Community Policing are usually the result of people voting on them. Again, this is why one city may have a curfew and the city next to them may not.
Also, I believe 29 or 30 states have "direct democratic control", so once again you are incorrect in your position. In addition, how do you think ammendments happen, and what do you think signatures are for?
Again, it depends on the community involved, the issues that are relevant to that community and the bills that are going to be passed. Also, you can't simply say "the government" because you have several forms of government that operate under different guidelines (Fed, State, Local/municipal), and as I have stated before, some cities have entirely DIFFERENT laws from the surrounding cities and counties. What might be legal in one county may be entirely DIFFERENT from what is legal in the next county.
Also, I question your use of the word "consent", because when law makers are voted into office, you are in fact giving them consent to make the laws for you. In essence you are saying "we trust you to do the right thing, and we trust that you will create laws that we all will abide by", so once again, I question your use of consent.
I am not saying that the government DOESN'T make them nor have I implied such. If thats the conclusion you came to I suggest you read my statements again, as they tell a different story.
In some cases this is what happens, in other cases this is not the case.
Ok.
The most effective way of keeping the people "mindless" or oblivious to an issue does not come in the form of brainwashing or misinformation. It comes in the form of NO information. If people do not know what laws exist, know what rights they have, know what police can and can't do, know what lawmakers can and can't do, and have a some knowledge of how things operate, this country would probably be in much better shape. Does brainwashing and misinformation come into play? You bet, but as I said before the best way to keep someone ignorant of the issue is to spread no information period.
Well, at that point you have to question the motives/intentions and the convictions of the people who favor it. If I favor something or I believe in something, I am going to stand up for it REGARDLESS of what people may call me and regardless of what social stigmas I am subjected to as a result. You either walk it how you talk it or you lay over and wait for some underground movement to take place, become effective and then hop on the bandwagaon. And guess what you'll be labeled as? A coward, a trend follower, someone who isn't really "down for the cause" and a leecher. So in other words? Keep it real. If you feel strongly about something stand up for it. If you don't go sit your ass in a corner.
This is a problem, but again who/what is the government you are talking about?
Blame the people for this.
Again, blame the people for BELIEVING IT before validating and researching it. Blame the people for being too concerned with vices and 401k plans.
No one said this was the case in all situations, however laws that are derived from community issues (late night noise, underaged drinking in a park) or Community Policing are usually the result of people voting on them. Again, this is why one city may have a curfew and the city next to them may not.
Also, I believe 29 or 30 states have "direct democratic control", so once again you are incorrect in your position. In addition, how do you think ammendments happen, and what do you think signatures are for?
Again, it depends on the community involved, the issues that are relevant to that community and the bills that are going to be passed. Also, you can't simply say "the government" because you have several forms of government that operate under different guidelines (Fed, State, Local/municipal), and as I have stated before, some cities have entirely DIFFERENT laws from the surrounding cities and counties. What might be legal in one county may be entirely DIFFERENT from what is legal in the next county.
Also, I question your use of the word "consent", because when law makers are voted into office, you are in fact giving them consent to make the laws for you. In essence you are saying "we trust you to do the right thing, and we trust that you will create laws that we all will abide by", so once again, I question your use of consent.
I am not saying that the government DOESN'T make them nor have I implied such. If thats the conclusion you came to I suggest you read my statements again, as they tell a different story.
In some cases this is what happens, in other cases this is not the case.
Ok.
The most effective way of keeping the people "mindless" or oblivious to an issue does not come in the form of brainwashing or misinformation. It comes in the form of NO information. If people do not know what laws exist, know what rights they have, know what police can and can't do, know what lawmakers can and can't do, and have a some knowledge of how things operate, this country would probably be in much better shape. Does brainwashing and misinformation come into play? You bet, but as I said before the best way to keep someone ignorant of the issue is to spread no information period.
Well, at that point you have to question the motives/intentions and the convictions of the people who favor it. If I favor something or I believe in something, I am going to stand up for it REGARDLESS of what people may call me and regardless of what social stigmas I am subjected to as a result. You either walk it how you talk it or you lay over and wait for some underground movement to take place, become effective and then hop on the bandwagaon. And guess what you'll be labeled as? A coward, a trend follower, someone who isn't really "down for the cause" and a leecher. So in other words? Keep it real. If you feel strongly about something stand up for it. If you don't go sit your ass in a corner.
This is a problem, but again who/what is the government you are talking about?
Blame the people for this.
Again, blame the people for BELIEVING IT before validating and researching it. Blame the people for being too concerned with vices and 401k plans.
Heresy, I have to leave so I'm not gonna have time to reply to that. My intention was never to get into a discussion about whether or not the federal, state, or local government makes laws, or whether or not people make laws. My intention was to state the lack of necessity with prohibitive laws. I just wanted to know though, it seems that (rightfully so) you are blaming the people for not doing something about an issue. (Also, for the record I was talking about the Federal Gov't).
I'm just wondering if you feel like people really are cowards about the issues. In my opinion (and what I have been taught in school) is that the government was set up to deny people direct democracy, lower their self-efficacy, and basically look like a democracy while the people who were higher up still weilded the power under a facade. They COUNT on the people taking no interest in politics.
It seems like our disagreement is on whether or not the people make the laws, support the laws, have information, etc. You blame the people for this, and I understand why.
But do you think that the government was originally set up to give every person a fair vote? To make everybody feel like they should vote?
In my opinion the government planned for and hoped that very small numbers of people would actually take part in the government, and this is how they have been manipulating the system since the beginning.
I'm just wondering if you feel like people really are cowards about the issues. In my opinion (and what I have been taught in school) is that the government was set up to deny people direct democracy, lower their self-efficacy, and basically look like a democracy while the people who were higher up still weilded the power under a facade. They COUNT on the people taking no interest in politics.
It seems like our disagreement is on whether or not the people make the laws, support the laws, have information, etc. You blame the people for this, and I understand why.
But do you think that the government was originally set up to give every person a fair vote? To make everybody feel like they should vote?
In my opinion the government planned for and hoped that very small numbers of people would actually take part in the government, and this is how they have been manipulating the system since the beginning.
Funny thing Stealth, a guy I work with was talking to me about how college has profs that teach communist views now, and how he thinks the Soviet Union (when it was around) send people over here to teach the youth a "Non-American" way.....basically he said, if it's not stereotypical American, it's wrong...just made me laugh though....
And yes, Heresy, I was talking about recreational use, not medical. However, there are strong arguments for both (rec and med) and I think people are starting to realize it, and WE--myself included--need to do some shit about the way things are going. I think the problem is, most of us don't know what to do about it because we feel powerless, at least that's how I feel. Got any suggestions (I'm being serious)?
And yes, Heresy, I was talking about recreational use, not medical. However, there are strong arguments for both (rec and med) and I think people are starting to realize it, and WE--myself included--need to do some shit about the way things are going. I think the problem is, most of us don't know what to do about it because we feel powerless, at least that's how I feel. Got any suggestions (I'm being serious)?
^sixxness^live out in the country/woods/cuts.....you have all the freedom you want(if you don't have neighbors).....i mean you can walk around naked and spark a bowl right infront of your house, if your home is secluded. You can own however many pets you want, paint your house a neon blue without the home owners association trippin, ride ATVs in the cuts, and/or have a paintball match, etc. You can have a fat party if you want without worrying if the neighbors will call the cops. You can also grow your own plants in your backyard(depends on the demographics). But you get my point. Living in the city/suburbs/town has its limitations and it also has it's positive sides...same could be applied with living out the woods.
I live in the city now and things have changed dramatically. The thing that i miss the most is that when i lived out in the country i was at peace and alot more laid back. Now city life is at a faster pace, it seems like clockwork all day....
I live in the city now and things have changed dramatically. The thing that i miss the most is that when i lived out in the country i was at peace and alot more laid back. Now city life is at a faster pace, it seems like clockwork all day....
What about piss testing? That's my main concern.
@Sixxness - I've joined Norml. And I've corrupted as many weed virgins as possible. I finally have the balls/wisdom now to make my views on marijuana to adults without worrying about how they'll judge me. I'm actually thinking about going into a field in law school where I can try to legalize or at least fight the legality of piss tests, but I'm still not sure if I wanna dedicate my life to weed.
But as far as what we can do? Man I have no fucking idea either...the one thing about stoners is that its hard to organize them under one cause. Its kind of like PCU where they'll protest things so much that they'll even protest protesting.
@the comment on education - many of my college teachers are foreigners. I guess that's one good thing about going to a world reknowned college. I had a sociology class called "Wealth and Power" about the division of classes, and my teacher was Jamaican. My history teacher was a straight up joint smoking hippy who told us how the US was pretty much set up to look like a democracy and keep people in check. Most of the education I've received pretty much questions all of the established education that we get in grade school. Communist? I doubt it. I just think that some teachers respect a student's intelligence enough to tell them the TRUTH.
@Sixxness - I've joined Norml. And I've corrupted as many weed virgins as possible. I finally have the balls/wisdom now to make my views on marijuana to adults without worrying about how they'll judge me. I'm actually thinking about going into a field in law school where I can try to legalize or at least fight the legality of piss tests, but I'm still not sure if I wanna dedicate my life to weed.
But as far as what we can do? Man I have no fucking idea either...the one thing about stoners is that its hard to organize them under one cause. Its kind of like PCU where they'll protest things so much that they'll even protest protesting.
@the comment on education - many of my college teachers are foreigners. I guess that's one good thing about going to a world reknowned college. I had a sociology class called "Wealth and Power" about the division of classes, and my teacher was Jamaican. My history teacher was a straight up joint smoking hippy who told us how the US was pretty much set up to look like a democracy and keep people in check. Most of the education I've received pretty much questions all of the established education that we get in grade school. Communist? I doubt it. I just think that some teachers respect a student's intelligence enough to tell them the TRUTH.
I've been sending letter lately to the congress bitches in my state, but I haven't actually joined NORML....any fees along with that?
As far as the truth comment, I agree. I've had some great sociology professors, and I think they're just trying to open people's eyes instead of leading them into the darkness.
As far as the truth comment, I agree. I've had some great sociology professors, and I think they're just trying to open people's eyes instead of leading them into the darkness.