Random Chance or Specific Design?

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May 8, 2002
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#1
Alright fellas, now it comes to the real dinger:
Evolution or Creationism?

I go Creationist, myself.
Evolution is just a little too far fetched.
Even if the world wasn't created in 7 days, it certainly didn't take billions of years. That's ludicrous.
It would make more sense to me for someone to say that god is an astronaut and we were genetically engineered than for me to believe that through a series of improbable chances we evolved from ocean slime into thinking, reasoning creatures.
Evolutionism is just as much of a cult as Heaven's Gate and the Branch Dividians.
 
Jul 7, 2002
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Mook Mangla P said:
Alright fellas, now it comes to the real dinger:
Evolution or Creationism?

....Evolution is just a little too far fetched....
first and foremost, i do believe in God, and the bible.

evolution far fetch? its been proven that creatures evole
over time....wether they were created out of nothing...well
thats a different story.



Mook Mangla P said:
Evolutionism is just as much of a cult as Heaven's Gate and the Branch Dividians.
this can't be true, why the hell do u say this????
evolution is base on science, regelions and cults, are based on beliefs,
 
May 8, 2002
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Re: Re: Random Chance or Specific Design?

nefar559 said:

evolution far fetch? its been proven that creatures evole
over time....
Natural selection and adaptation have been scientifically proven, but evolution from one species to another has yet to be proven. That's why its the "Theory of Evolution."
Basically, I think it is clear that a lion can turn into a cat over a long period of time, but never a lion to a bear or a a fish to a lizard.
I understand the leap of faith I am taking by saying that the world is divinely created.
But i think it is a bigger leap of faith to think that the universe randomly happened in a big bang and that our planet randomly had the right elements to support life and then life is randomly created and accidentely evolves over millions of years.
That's a whole lot to swallow.
Just my opinion.
 
S

SHOHEI BABA

Guest
#5
man i left a piece of frie chicken in the fridge so long one time it evolved into something that look like a cake
 
Jul 7, 2002
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Re: Re: Re: Random Chance or Specific Design?

Mook Mangla P said:


Natural selection and adaptation have been scientifically proven, but evolution from one species to another has yet to be proven. That's why its the "Theory of Evolution."
Basically, I think it is clear that a lion can turn into a cat over a long period of time, but never a lion to a bear or a a fish to a lizard.
spieces evoled into subspices and they don't mate with other species...this has been proven...of course a lion can't turn into a cat, becuae they already evole into that...the process takes a long time to evolve into something different....envoriments take into affect...spieces evolve to fit there evnoriments.




Mook Mangla P said:

I understand the leap of faith I am taking by saying that the world is divinely created.
But i think it is a bigger leap of faith to think that the universe randomly happened in a big bang and that our planet randomly had the right elements to support life and then life is randomly created and accidentely evolves over millions of years.
That's a whole lot to swallow.
Just my opinion.
have you ever wonder that maybe God align them so this can happen?
 
May 13, 2002
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#9
Mook, no disrespect intended,(well, maybe a little) but do you seriously not believe in evolution?? You gotta be a fuckin idiot not to believe in it. Do you think god said one day let there be dinasors? Then said fuck it, kill them and let there be man? What about all of the fosils scientists have found? Are they just bullshit??

Personally I think anyone who does not believe in evolution is a fool. Ok, I can understand if you believe in god and everything, thats cool, but dont deny the facts.

"The foolish reject what they see and not what they think; the wise reject what they think and not what they see."
 
May 8, 2002
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^^^2-0-Sixx, I appreciate your views, and its true, I don't believe in evolution.
Your dinosaur example is not a good one to bring up because according to your beliefs, there have been millions of years between the extinction of the dinosaurs and the arrival of modern man.
I , on the other hand, believe that man and dinosaurs lived together. And while many of the larger species have died off or been killed, many still exist. Sharks and Alligators, for example.
Ever heard of the coelocanth?
It's a prehistoric fish that apparently became extinct 35 million years ago, when the rest of the dinosaurs died off. Or at least that's what the scientific community (the ones you trust) said, until they found the coelocanth swimming in the waters off Africa. This happens again and again, and scientists are constantly having to update their timelines. That right there shows that not all dinosaurs died off, because the coelocanth was most certainly a prehistoric contemorary of the dinosaurs by anyone's calculations.
Some still think that brontosaurus is alive in the Congo, and they may be right. Why is it that all ancient civilizations have stories and description of giant lizards and dragons if they died before we came along?
And as far as the fossils that your scientists have supposedly found, they have yet to find a complete or close to complete missing link. That's why its the missing link. What they have found are scattered teeth and jaw fragments, and from these they GUESS what the creature must have looked like, and almost always they use their own biased belief in evolution to come up with how the creature looked.
You know the real reason I don't believe in evolution?
Because in my college science class we were taught that modern whales originated from land animals similar to dogs. All of your evolutionary textbooks will say something similar. So that means that slime had to evolve into fish that evolved into land reptiles that then evolved into a land canine, only to evolve into a whale and go back into the ocean.
It's ludicrous notions like this that make evolution a joke.
I'll admit that I have to accept one ludicrous notion: that God created the world in 7 days.
You, on the other hand, have to accept hundreds.
And while I rely on faith to justify my beliefs, I rely on facts to show that your theory of evolution is just plain wrong.
 
Jul 7, 2002
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Mook Mangla P said:
^^^2-0-Sixx, I appreciate your views, and its true, I don't believe in evolution.
Your dinosaur example is not a good one to bring up because according to your beliefs, there have been millions of years between the extinction of the dinosaurs and the arrival of modern man.
I , on the other hand, believe that man and dinosaurs lived together. And while many of the larger species have died off or been killed, many still exist. Sharks and Alligators, for example.
Ever heard of the coelocanth?
It's a prehistoric fish that apparently became extinct 35 million years ago, when the rest of the dinosaurs died off. Or at least that's what the scientific community (the ones you trust) said, until they found the coelocanth swimming in the waters off Africa. This happens again and again, and scientists are constantly having to update their timelines. That right there shows that not all dinosaurs died off, because the coelocanth was most certainly a prehistoric contemorary of the dinosaurs by anyone's calculations.
Some still think that brontosaurus is alive in the Congo, and they may be right. Why is it that all ancient civilizations have stories and description of giant lizards and dragons if they died before we came along?
And as far as the fossils that your scientists have supposedly found, they have yet to find a complete or close to complete missing link. That's why its the missing link. What they have found are scattered teeth and jaw fragments, and from these they GUESS what the creature must have looked like, and almost always they use their own biased belief in evolution to come up with how the creature looked.
You know the real reason I don't believe in evolution?
Because in my college science class we were taught that modern whales originated from land animals similar to dogs. All of your evolutionary textbooks will say something similar. So that means that slime had to evolve into fish that evolved into land reptiles that then evolved into a land canine, only to evolve into a whale and go back into the ocean.
It's ludicrous notions like this that make evolution a joke.
I'll admit that I have to accept one ludicrous notion: that God created the world in 7 days.
You, on the other hand, have to accept hundreds.
And while I rely on faith to justify my beliefs, I rely on facts to show that your theory of evolution is just plain wrong.
its funnie how u disprove science with science...we have yet to
explain evolution with science, thats why we have scienctist working on it....again the bio books say its just theory..
the way the bio books classifly the living organismes its a theory too....but its base on science....and soon new findings will disprove old ones....again all base on facts, not faith
 
May 13, 2002
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#13
I can’t believe how many people don’t believe in evolution. Ok, let me get some things str8....

Your dinosaur example is not a good one to bring up because according to your beliefs, there have been millions of years between the extinction of the dinosaurs and the arrival of modern man.
Why is my dinosaur example not good enough to bring up? You are exactly right, there are millions of years between dinosaurs and the arrival of man. That is my point exactly. You see the Fossil remains show that living things in the remote past were very different from living things today. THEREFORE Life has changed through time (evolved).

You bring up some weak points about the coelocanth. That has nothing to do with evolution. All that example does for you is say that scientists thought something was extinct, but in fact it wasn’t. It’s a learning process.


And as far as the fossils that your scientists have supposedly found, they have yet to find a complete or close to complete missing link
That’s only because religious people like you deny the facts that are right in front of your eyes. Just a few months ago scientists unearthed a skeletal remain of one of the oldest human species ever found, 8 million years old. Now, of course religious people will deny this as an actual human. They say its a "monkey like creature" or whatever. The fact is there isn’t going to be some "missing link" that you talk about. There’s nothing that’s going to be half man half monkey because evolution is a process!! It takes millions of years for evolution work. You see, all of these older human species do NOT exist anymore. Evolution is very simple. All it takes is a small mutation. Heritable variations (mutations) are observed to occur spontaneously, from time to time, in populations of all species. We know this for a fact.
In a given environment, some of these variations are helpful in the struggle for existence, and others are harmful or neutral. The source of these changes is either a change in the sequence of chemical bases in the DNA molecules making up an organism's genes, rearrangement of genes on chromosomes, or multiplication or deletion of genes or chromosomes. Physically and chemically speaking, there is no limit to the amount of base changing possible in DNA or the amount of gene rearrangement, which can take place. Every thing can change. And everything is changing. Scientists have found a species of snake that actually has tiny little back legs in its skeleton. These legs do not function, but only prove that this species of snake evolved from something else, like a lizard.

Another observation made by scientists is that the human head is actually becoming larger in the front of the skull and smaller in the back. Why you ask? Because the front of the human brain handles more of the processing tasks, while the back handles more of the physical tasks. As humans get smarter and smarter, and less dependent on the physical aspects, the brain, and skull change over time.

I can’t believe you would state that humans lived with the dinosaurs. Why are there no skeletons of both species from the same time period? Also, by stating this, you must believe in early man. You must believe in some type of "caveman" right? Can you honestly say that man has not changed since the caveman?

I'll admit that I have to accept one ludicrous notion: that God created the world in 7 days. You, on the other hand, have to accept hundreds.
Hundreds? How can you say this? You believe in fairy tails, I on the other hand believe in facts.


And while I rely on faith to justify my beliefs, I rely on facts to show that your theory of evolution is just plain wrong.
If you rely on faith to justify your beliefs, well then I am speaking to a fool. Show me some facts that disprove evolution! I would love to hear them. Please, humor me with specifics.
 
May 5, 2002
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Evolution is just a little too far fetched.
Evolution is something that derived from evidence. Nobody just all of a sudden thought it up, then sought to prove it. It was the PROOF that developed evolution.

Even if the world wasn't created in 7 days, it certainly didn't take billions of years. That's ludicrous.
Ludacris you say? well these is something called carbon dating, and I believe the oldest material found on the earth was a good 6 billion years old....

People don't have a true understanding on what a THEORY is. A theory in science is not some random idea that someone came up with. A theory is something that explains a set of events based on testing, facts, and data provided. Creationism is NOT a theory, its based on a book. EVOLUTION IS, its based on evidence found in the world.

People are always saying there is no proof of evolution... thats denial. There is evidence after evidence of fossils and testing proving steps. Here let me make an analagy on why people should not discredit evolution. Say we got a staircase, and we can prove a large amount of steps lead up to eachother, but say a couple of the steps are missing. Do those missing steps make this not a staircase? no, it is a staircase, and how do we fix the missing steps? hire someone to fill them in. In science the scientist will be the ones to fill in those steps as time and more testing is done. Explaining a complicated mater like this isn't as easy as writing a book, it takes time. Nobody is telling these scientist how we got here, they are finding out themselves, using evidence in the world. now back to the analagy, to prove that a few steps are missing does not prove that those other steps, that ARE THERE, arn't. Its a staircase no matter how you look at it.......
 
May 11, 2002
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#16
I just do not see how Evolution or Science does anything for our daily lives. Where is that missing 'link'? Science still has yet to offer scientific proof to disprove 'Creation'. Think about life before the knowledge of Evolution. Why hasn't human nature evolved? How come issues relevant 4000 years ago still effect us now? Look at September 11th how it brought America back to re-awakening of the roots of Islam, Christianity, and Judaism. Take a look at the middle east and how it roots back to History thousands of years ago. The Bible is based on historical events that affect everyday life of Billions of humans. Science has very little to do with every day life. Humans are not 'wired' to think like Scientist. I feel humans are 'wired' to experience life in a whole another realm, Science, un-belief, Atheism, or Evolutionist for me personally is not that answer.

Subnoze is right. A lot of steps are missing. Where are they? I have only about 60 years left in my life. Not billions. I would rather trust the leap of faith then Science. Finding those steps will not fill the voids in my life, voids that I feel a "Higher Power" has filled. That is my personal feeling.

"My mind tells me that there is no God, yet I have the mind of a Monkey, who can trust the mind of a Monkey?"
Sir Charles Darwin (Darwin Doubt)

Relgious Hypothesis
1. Eternal things are more real
2. Your life now will be better if you believe the second part.
 
May 5, 2002
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#17
yea but you don't understand, evolution is NOT A RELIGION. Its not designed to effect our everyday lifes, and how we live them. All it is is an answer for how we got here. It says nothing about what happens when we die.

Science doesn't prove the bible wrong? So I guess it is humanly possible to part the sea and walk through it? If all this stuff in the bible is true, why don't we see it today? You only have 60 years to live, yes, but do you think jesus will return within 60? Its been 2102 years....... You got more chance of evolution being mapped out perfectly in those 60 years of your life......
 
May 11, 2002
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I understand what you are saying. But I am not waiting for Jesus. I may be Christian, but I am not dumb. Mabey he will come in my life time mabey not. I am not going to hold my breath. Mabey a lot of Christians are waiting for the return of Jesus but I am not.

You simply stated that Evolution is not a religion. Yet it is a faith. I look over the posts of the "posibility", basically saying this happend or this might of happend. There is not clear cut carved in stone concise truth to Evolution. Three diffrent people are showing three diffrent views of Evolution. Scientist can't even agree amognst themselves as which is true and what is not. Instead of saying this is what happend, it is stated this might of happend or this could of happend. It is all speculation. The same can be said for religion. I will agree with that. I just feel there is more going for a Creator then pure chance.
 
May 13, 2002
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#19
I just do not see how Evolution or Science does anything for our daily lives

The Bible is based on historical events that affect everyday life of Billions of humans. Science has very little to do with every day life.
I can see how evolution does little for your life, since you don’t believe in it. But how the hell can you say science does very little in our daily lives? Look around you science is everywhere! How are we having this discussion? Is it because of god or the bible? No, it is science. How do you get to work, what do you do at work, what about school, EVERYTHING is science. If it weren’t for science we would still be living like savages.

Where is that missing 'link'?
Did you even read what I posted earlier? There is no "missing link"!! Evolution is a process. It takes millions of years. It just doesn’t one day happen.


Why hasn't human nature evolved
Oh it has evolved my friend, and it still is.

How come issues relevant 4000 years ago still effect us now? Look at September 11th how it brought America back to re-awakening of the roots of Islam, Christianity, and Judaism
What issues 4000 years ago still affect us? Doesn’t affect me or people like me. The reason why more Americans have "re-awakened" after 9/11 is because of the fear that it implanted in the majority of Americans. People rely on religion for protection. People always have. Again your making points based on the majority of people, just like you have in the past and it proves absolutely nothing.

Your quote from Darwin is a lame attempt to disprove evolution. You must understand that Darwin was NOT the creator of the idea nor did he understand it completely.

I don’t know why evolution is so hard for you people to believe in. Is it too much of a threat against your religion and beliefs? There is so much evidence supporting evolution its moronic not to believe.

Let me ask you this question. What evidence do you have for creationism? Are there any facts? Are there any signs of proof? Is there any real reason to believe?

Now compare your answers to why someone believes in evolution and you will see how unbalanced the tables are.
 
May 8, 2002
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#20
Stated intelligently as always, 2-0-Sixx.

But I agree with what Basiccally is saying.
In order for evolution to be science, it needs to be able to be observed and repeated. Evolution fits neither of these criteria.
In a million years, when some evolutionist digs up the remains of my house and finds a computer monitor and a television set, he's going to think that they either had a common ancestor or that one evolved into the next, when what he should be thinking is, "Wow, both of these objects must have been specially designed by an intelligent creator."

I'm sure none of you guys think that the computer you are using accidentaly came together as a result of random chance.
Then how could you think that thing about a living organism or a human being, something infinetly more complex than a computer?