Prove Christ exists, judge orders priest

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May 13, 2002
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#1
Prove Christ exists, judge orders priest
From Richard Owen in Rome

AN ITALIAN judge has ordered a priest to appear in court this month to prove that Jesus Christ existed.

The case against Father Enrico Righi has been brought in the town of Viterbo, north of Rome, by Luigi Cascioli, a retired agronomist who once studied for the priesthood but later became a militant atheist.

Signor Cascioli, author of a book called The Fable of Christ, began legal proceedings against Father Righi three years ago after the priest denounced Signor Cascioli in the parish newsletter for questioning Christ’s historical existence.

Yesterday Gaetano Mautone, a judge in Viterbo, set a preliminary hearing for the end of this month and ordered Father Righi to appear. The judge had earlier refused to take up the case, but was overruled last month by the Court of Appeal, which agreed that Signor Cascioli had a reasonable case for his accusation that Father Righi was “abusing popular credulity”.

Signor Cascioli’s contention — echoed in numerous atheist books and internet sites — is that there was no reliable evidence that Jesus lived and died in 1st-century Palestine apart from the Gospel accounts, which Christians took on faith. There is therefore no basis for Christianity, he claims.

Signor Cascioli’s one-man campaign came to a head at a court hearing last April when he lodged his accusations of “abuse of popular credulity” and “impersonation”, both offences under the Italian penal code. He argued that all claims for the existence of Jesus from sources other than the Bible stem from authors who lived “after the time of the hypothetical Jesus” and were therefore not reliable witnesses.

Signor Cascioli maintains that early Christian writers confused Jesus with John of Gamala, an anti-Roman Jewish insurgent in 1st-century Palestine. Church authorities were therefore guilty of “substitution of persons”.

The Roman historians Tacitus and Suetonius mention a “Christus” or “Chrestus”, but were writing “well after the life of the purported Jesus” and were relying on hearsay.

Father Righi said there was overwhelming testimony to Christ’s existence in religious and secular texts. Millions had in any case believed in Christ as both man and Son of God for 2,000 years.

“If Cascioli does not see the sun in the sky at midday, he cannot sue me because I see it and he does not,” Father Righi said.

Signor Cascioli said that the Gospels themselves were full of inconsistencies and did not agree on the names of the 12 apostles. He said that he would withdraw his legal action if Father Righi came up with irrefutable proof of Christ’s existence by the end of the month.

The Vatican has so far declined to comment.

LINKAGE
 
May 13, 2002
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#2
Wow, good job at rambling on and on about shit that has nothing to do with the topic at hand. The topic, in case you missed it, is a judge ordering a priest to prove Jesus existed. Can you offer anything relevant to the topic, such as providing proof Jesus existed, commenting on the case in Italy or would you like to continue you’re irrelevant rant about God the creator, homosexuals, the devil and greedy movie stars?
 
Apr 25, 2002
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#3
Mr. ViNN707 said:
Another attack on GOD... One of many... Once this world is Godless society will have no concense and nobody to answer to so no reason to give a fuck about or consider there fellow man. Religion is joke these days and people don't seem to realise that JESUS is a princapal a way of life and a path/blueprint to a healthy life/soul... Jesus isnt a religion Jesus was against religion so when these Godless people attack Religion they are realy attacking a man made thing and by destroying the credibility of the church by making the "MEN" who are supposed to represent GOD through the church it infact drives people away from GOD and this very thing has been profosized for years and years. There is only one GOD and like it or not the devil is real and most of the shit going on right now and since the begining of time are attacks from the devil or the evil energy in the world. We brought all these plegues and natural desasters on ourselves because of the way we act and the condition of our hearts the way we treat eachother and the way allow ourselves to become selfish and greedy.

Look at revilations alot of that shit is happining right now. Our morals as a whole are damb near non existant. GOD created this world but the kids in this next generation dont even live in it. They live in a world of pretend and computer generated violence and photo shoped ideal pictures of woman that no real woman can ever compare to. They watch cartoons like south park and try to copy the people on MTV the GREEDY MUSIC AND MOVIE STARS, BLATON HOMOSEXUALS and SMART MOUTHED SPOILED TEENAGERS...

I don't care what GOD your following just as long as it fits the format that Jesus walked... You don't have to believe in Jesus but I sure as fuck hope you people beleive in somthing. How many of you peopel are truly happy? Life is a bitch and I'll be pissed if I lived through this shit and find out it was all for nothing.
There are no attacks on God, everyone is just sick of you guys trying to shove Jesus down everyone's throats.
 
Dec 17, 2004
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Mr. ViNN707 said:
Another attack on GOD... One of many... Once this world is Godless society will have no concense and nobody to answer to so no reason to give a fuck about or consider there fellow man. Religion is joke these days and people don't seem to realise that JESUS is a princapal a way of life and a path/blueprint to a healthy life/soul... Jesus isnt a religion Jesus was against religion so when these Godless people attack Religion they are realy attacking a man made thing and by destroying the credibility of the church by making the "MEN" who are supposed to represent GOD through the church it infact drives people away from GOD and this very thing has been profosized for years and years. There is only one GOD and like it or not the devil is real and most of the shit going on right now and since the begining of time are attacks from the devil or the evil energy in the world. We brought all these plegues and natural desasters on ourselves because of the way we act and the condition of our hearts the way we treat eachother and the way allow ourselves to become selfish and greedy.

Look at revilations alot of that shit is happining right now. Our morals as a whole are damb near non existant. GOD created this world but the kids in this next generation dont even live in it. They live in a world of pretend and computer generated violence and photo shoped ideal pictures of woman that no real woman can ever compare to. They watch cartoons like south park and try to copy the people on MTV the GREEDY MUSIC AND MOVIE STARS, BLATON HOMOSEXUALS and SMART MOUTHED SPOILED TEENAGERS...

I don't care what GOD your following just as long as it fits the format that Jesus walked... You don't have to believe in Jesus but I sure as fuck hope you people beleive in somthing. How many of you peopel are truly happy? Life is a bitch and I'll be pissed if I lived through this shit and find out it was all for nothing.
i hear you bro. preach on

and as far as proving jesus existed. its already been pretty much, not faith based, but historically proven
 
May 13, 2002
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#7
Mr. ViNN707 said:
I get the topic and I see it as one of many attacks on God by these people attacking man made organized religion.
Much like the attacks on Science?

Its fucking obvious Jesus was alive and existed
Obviously not or this would not be a debate. If it's so obvious, prove it.

because there is no way this story would of made it all these years
Really? So what about Zues, Aphrodite, Apollo, Ra, Miclantecuhtle, Vishnu, Shiva, etc.? Surely you've heard of at least some of these gods, many of which are much older then Jesus and still worshipped today.

These people are attacking the bullshit that men have attached to the story to discredit peoples faith and spirituality.
What people?

The world can be looked at on many different levels but if you think about this world as a whole you can start to put the puzzle together. The problem is most people dont want to know and dont want to ask the real questions and find the real answers.
How can we ask the real questions and find the real answers if you later say:

"Who gives a fuck if Jesus existed in flesh or not who cares if all the stories in the bible are true...We need to quite questioning"

Hmm, so on one hand you say that some people dont want to know and dont want to ask but on the other hand you say we shouldnt question anything? Hmm, sounds like a major contradiction to me.

Who gives a fuck if Jesus existed in flesh or not
Obvioulsy many people do and I would imagine that if you're going to believe in him, you just might want to make sure he existed in the first place.

who cares if all the stories in the bible are true
Haha. Seriously, if I were to believe in a book I would like to know its true. I mean, If I told you I can walk on water, how the earth was created, where man came from, etc., are you just going to take my word for it or would you investigate?

Same for Martin Luther King and Ghandi and many other great men who's public life effected the world in a Good way. We need to quite questioning the good things in this world and start questioning the evil things like our government and these corporations.
We should question everything, including what might seem to some as good. Obviously the bible has caused a lot of trouble - fights, wars, crime, genocide, racism, sexism, etc.
 
Mar 13, 2003
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#8
Mr. ViNN707 said:
We need to quite questioning the good things in this world and start questioning the evil things like our government and these corporations.
What if our 'government' and 'these corporations' where using 'the good things' like 'the bible' and 'Jesus' to control 'you' and the rest of 'the followers'?

I'd much rather live my life with question than blindly following what I'm told is right. I'm not saying not to have faith, I'm simply saying place that faith within yourself. Too many people have fought and died for beliefs that were handed down to them. People and messages can be corrupted.

Do you show worship through your actions or through a collection plate?

Who can dictate the word of god?

Are you a devote follower or a follower of the devoted?

Questioning religion is not a sign of spiritual weakness, but a confirmation of spiritual strength.
 
Apr 25, 2002
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2-0-Sixx said:
Wow, good job at rambling on and on about shit that has nothing to do with the topic at hand. The topic, in case you missed it, is a judge ordering a priest to prove Jesus existed. Can you offer anything relevant to the topic, such as providing proof Jesus existed, commenting on the case in Italy or would you like to continue you’re irrelevant rant about God the creator, homosexuals, the devil and greedy movie stars?

jesus christo did existe , wheather you believe in god or not he was an actual historical figure.................
 
Jun 30, 2005
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i aint tryna get into no arguments, but you iether believe or you dont.. some people choose to, some choose not too. On everything, i believe in god tho. everybody is entitled to their own opinions and beliefs tho. adida.
 
Jun 27, 2003
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@ 2-0 i remember a topic came up where you said Jesus never existed and I jumped in the thread. Look up some books by John Dominic Crossan, he writes on the historical Jesus in a three part series. Also, Jewish historian Flavius Josephus wrotes of Jesus in the Jewish Antiquities; he was NOT a follower of Jesus. Also, the pagan historian Cornelius Tacitus writes of Jesus in the Annals. Also, some of the canons of Christian literature are thought of to be somewhat historically accurate in regards to Jesus. Some archaeological evidence has been found that supports some of the things in the four gospels recognized by the church. Also, there are historical accoutns from a Buddhist temple in India about a Palestinian man visiting the area around the time Jesus would have been in his 20s.. this may or may not refer to Jesus, it is up for debate, but I like to think that it may be a record of him.

I do not portray Jesus as some sort of son of God; however, it's ridiculous to say he never existed. I once compared him to Che in that same thread, he started a movement and was killed for this. He was once a disciple of John the Baptist whose followers continue their traditions to this day. Jesus was very much real
 
Feb 9, 2003
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Jae iLL said:
@ 2-0 i remember a topic came up where you said Jesus never existed and I jumped in the thread. Look up some books by John Dominic Crossan, he writes on the historical Jesus in a three part series. Also, Jewish historian Flavius Josephus wrotes of Jesus in the Jewish Antiquities; he was NOT a follower of Jesus. Also, the pagan historian Cornelius Tacitus writes of Jesus in the Annals. Also, some of the canons of Christian literature are thought of to be somewhat historically accurate in regards to Jesus. Some archaeological evidence has been found that supports some of the things in the four gospels recognized by the church.
The problem is that 2-0-Sixx wants something that was written during Jesus' life time. The earliest accounts were written anywhere from 10 to 40 years after.

But on the same page I would like to have anyone prove to me that Shakespeare, who was much more a contemporary figure, did exist.

Or what about the fact that my great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandfather existed. Or what about millions upon millions of people from third world countries who are born and die and no one ever documents their existance. In hundreds of years, will they exist?

Face it people. Many scholars, theist and atheist alike believe that Yeshua Ben Yosef was infact a historical person, all of these scholars have more knowledge in the subject than either I, Sixx, or any one else reading this thread, and they still believe that a man named Jesus, Iesus, Ya'hushua, etc. existed. Some don't.
 

TROLL

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im pretty sure a man named jesus christ existed, im debateing wether he actually believed he was the son of god (i.e crazy) or that he was a good conman, but too each his own really
 
Nov 6, 2005
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SOAK::GAME said:
lol @ "prove christ existed"

hey, while he's at it, he should prove the existance of abraham lincoln and ray charles also :confused:
LOLL@ nigga comparin' jesus to abraham lincoln and ray charles........this thread should be moved in the gatherin' of minds though..IMO
 
May 13, 2002
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#17
Jae iLL said:
@ 2-0 i remember a topic came up where you said Jesus never existed and I jumped in the thread. Look up some books by John Dominic Crossan, he writes on the historical Jesus in a three part series. Also, Jewish historian Flavius Josephus wrotes of Jesus in the Jewish Antiquities; he was NOT a follower of Jesus. Also, the pagan historian Cornelius Tacitus writes of Jesus in the Annals. Also, some of the canons of Christian literature are thought of to be somewhat historically accurate in regards to Jesus. Some archaeological evidence has been found that supports some of the things in the four gospels recognized by the church. Also, there are historical accoutns from a Buddhist temple in India about a Palestinian man visiting the area around the time Jesus would have been in his 20s.. this may or may not refer to Jesus, it is up for debate, but I like to think that it may be a record of him.

I do not portray Jesus as some sort of son of God; however, it's ridiculous to say he never existed. I once compared him to Che in that same thread, he started a movement and was killed for this. He was once a disciple of John the Baptist whose followers continue their traditions to this day. Jesus was very much real
I remember the thread well. However, as Mexicancommando stated, there is no historical evidence from when Jesus supposedly lived, the earliest known is around 70 years after he supposedly died. That is my point and the point of the Italian judge. You cannot prove his existance, only hearsay.

With that being said, personally I can give two shits if a man named Jesus lived or not. Doesnt matter to me one way or another, I just think it is incorrect that people can say with 100% certainty that he did exist, considering the lack of solid proof.

Anyways, I posted this thread in the Open forum because mainly this seems like the appropriate place for "strange news." Not really interested in debating the existance of Jesus since not one person on this site can offer any proof, plus it's been discussed a number of times in the GOM, always with the same ending.
 
May 13, 2002
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#18
MEXICANCOMMANDO said:
Face it people. Many scholars, theist and atheist alike believe that Yeshua Ben Yosef was infact a historical person, all of these scholars have more knowledge in the subject than either I, Sixx, or any one else reading this thread, and they still believe that a man named Jesus, Iesus, Ya'hushua, etc. existed. Some don't.
And there are many scholars that are skeptical of his existance. This debate didnt start today with this thread, it's been debated for hundreds of years.
 

reza

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Jun 9, 2005
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#19
^ this discussion will continue till the end of time. The only way everyone can be clearly satisified by Jesus existance would be DNA evidence. Of course that's impossible. What other logical evidence will actually prove his existance? Its even more ridiculous of Judge Cascioli to give that priest thirty days to prove this!