Poll finds more Americans believe in devil than Darwin

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May 15, 2002
2,964
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#21
So is ignorance the root of satan? An atheist doesn't exist until someone says god exists. Someone who's never heard of the supernatural has no idea of either, so are they the embodiment of satan?
 

Big E

Sicc OG
Nov 10, 2004
993
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#22
No ignorance is not satanic, willfull ignorance is. If you know that there is a truth out there and choose to stay ignorant and find out the truth... Nevermind I am a imperfect man, I have no Idea what god thinks or feels unless it is in the bible and all the bible says is that there will be a resurrection of the righteous AND the unrighteous. Beyond that, God judges the heart and true side of people as he knows what you will do before you even do it.
 
Mar 12, 2005
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#23
but that the biblical version of the worlds history is retarded.
The Youth Today is either hella EMO, faggots, into Gay Gimmicks, Cross Dressing, Advocates of same sex relationships, bi-sexual relationships. When the future generation looks at today's history, they will either be the same or say dang, those foos were faggots.

in my opinion the bible serves as guide to acceptable morals, the stories are meant to teach life lessons not to be interpreted as fact.
Rhetorical:Do you have Skin? Do I have Skin? What does this mean? Just like the questions presented, we all have them, just like your opinion.

I also think christianity is especially stupid since they don't celebrate any of the holdidays in the old testament, and instead have jesus-fest twice a year in winter and spring.
You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. There are about 150 thousand plus messianic Jews and Gentile Proselytes that would object and think the contrary.

So is ignorance the root of satan?
If you read the Epistles of Paul, For Example 1st Thessalonian Chapter 4, Paul highly emphasized that he should not leave his brethren ignorant. Solid Answer, no Not necessarily.

An atheist doesn't exist until someone says god exists.
True

Someone who's never heard of the supernatural has no idea of either, so are they the embodiment of satan?
There's a difference between ignorance and Un-belief or the Choosing not to believe. Quick Answer NO
 
May 15, 2002
2,964
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#24
A hypothetical situation: "god" does not exist. Then someone comes around and says god does exist, and suddenly an atheist is born because he's doesn't agree with this new idea of god. Couldn't we argue that it is therefore the theist that is the root of the devil (because the theist creates the atheist)? Can you argue against that without using the bible?

Perhaps there's a flaw in my logic, but it seems a bit circular to me.
 

Big E

Sicc OG
Nov 10, 2004
993
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#25
A hypothetical situation: "god" does not exist. Then someone comes around and says god does exist, and suddenly an atheist is born because he's doesn't agree with this new idea of god. Couldn't we argue that it is therefore the theist that is the root of the devil (because the theist creates the atheist)? Can you argue against that without using the bible?

Perhaps there's a flaw in my logic, but it seems a bit circular to me.
Well hypothetically yes, but since god is not hypothetical and neither is the bible, If you have been shown the bible and choose not believe, than you are no longer ignorant but atheist.
 

ThaG

Sicc OG
Jun 30, 2005
9,597
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#28
The root of Satanism does not believe in God or a form there of. More of a philosophical god, like the god the great philosophers used. More of that definition of a god. there's good and evil. Un-belief is the the main doctrine of the devil
but no atheist ever is going to believe in the devil

for atheists, the devil is just as nonsensical as God; moreover, the devil exists only in some religions....
 

ThaG

Sicc OG
Jun 30, 2005
9,597
1,687
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#29
So is ignorance the root of satan? An atheist doesn't exist until someone says god exists. Someone who's never heard of the supernatural has no idea of either, so are they the embodiment of satan?

No ignorance is not satanic, willfull ignorance is. If you know that there is a truth out there and choose to stay ignorant and find out the truth... Nevermind I am a imperfect man, I have no Idea what god thinks or feels unless it is in the bible and all the bible says is that there will be a resurrection of the righteous AND the unrighteous. Beyond that, God judges the heart and true side of people as he knows what you will do before you even do it.
look at what he said above

Do you realize that H. sapiens appeared some 100,000 years ago, and this did not happen suddenly but through a gradual succession from other hominids

The Bible was available only during the last 4000 years, and its modern version appeared in the 4th century

For most of its existence, mankind did not know about the Bible; not only that, most of mankind did not know shit about the Bible until very recently

Only a tiny percentage of the human population during Jesus's time knew about his existence. People in Eastern Asia, Africa, Northern Europe, North and South America and Australia never learned about his existence and the existence of his God. Why did this God discriminate against them if he created them all?????
 

Big E

Sicc OG
Nov 10, 2004
993
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#30
Cuz Jesus purpose on eart was to die for all mankind. Not preach to every single human on the planet individually. That's why the bible is like a seed, it was planted and spread to all the earth and when everyone on the earth has heard the message, the end will come. Every single person on the planet has to hear the message and there has to be a declaration of world peace before the end will come.
 

ThaG

Sicc OG
Jun 30, 2005
9,597
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#31
Typical fanatic's babbling...

I asked you a simple question - why didn't the Christian/Jewish God (Allah) gave the Bible to all people in the world? If he really wanted them to hear about him?

You did not answer...
 

Big E

Sicc OG
Nov 10, 2004
993
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#32
Typical fanatic's babbling...

I asked you a simple question - why didn't the Christian/Jewish God (Allah) gave the Bible to all people in the world? If he really wanted them to hear about him?

You did not answer...
Poop!!! Not babble dude, Think about it, it's happening today. JW's are in every country in the world going door to door and offering people bible studies and everyone thinks they are a cult cuz they don't celebrate a bunch of pagan holidays or accept blood transfusions? C'mon Man. I used to be one and it is nothing like what has been described on this forum. I used to go to movies and play foot ball with people that actually cared about me. I left because I was depressed and thought I was missing out on something, and I wasn't. So I decided to not ride the fence anymore and ask to be disfellowshipped and took the other side of the fence. I haven't been to a JW Meeting for almost 5 years. The only fomplaint I have or had rather is that I wanted to "experiance" life (Drugs, Sex, Rap, Alcohol, Partying, etc.) without god in it and do pretty much whatever I want to do. I know its wrong but I don't have the self control it takes to quit the things listed above and go back to preaching and teaching besides when people look at a guy like me whose done the things I have and won't want to study the bible with me. Can you blame them? That's why I'm gonna get my fun in before the lights go out, and be with my son.
 

Big E

Sicc OG
Nov 10, 2004
993
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#34
Here is a DEFINITIVE answer homie, GOD'S NAME IS NOT ALLAH, ALLAH IN ARABIC MEANS "GOD" A TITLE, NOT JEHOVAH (JHVH) OR YAHWEH (YHWH) , WHICH IS HIS NAME.

Allah (Arabic: الله, Allāh) is the standard Arabic word for "God".[1] The term is always used in singular form and does not accept a plural form. [2] Allah is derived from an old Semitic root referring to the Divine and used in the Canaanite El, the Mesopotamian ilu, and the biblical Elohim.[3]

The term is best known in the West for its use by Muslims as a reference to God.[4][1] Arabic-speakers of all Abrahamic faiths, including Christians and Jews, use the word "Allah" to mean "God".[3] The Muslim and Christian Arabs of today have no other word for 'God' than 'Allah'.[5] In pre-Islamic Arabia, Allah was used by pagan Meccans as a reference to the creator-god, possibly the supreme deity.[6]

Contents [hide]
1 Etymology
2 Usage
2.1 Polytheistic religion of the pre-Islamic Arabs
2.2 Islam
2.3 Other
2.4 Cross religion comparison (an academic view)
3 See also
4 External links
5 Bibliography
6 References



Etymology
The term Allāh is most likely derived from a contraction of the Arabic article al- and ʾilāh "deity, god" to al-lāh meaning "the [sole] deity, God" (ho theos monos), L. Gardet states.[6] Another theory traces the etymology of the word to the Aramaic Alāhā.[6]. Cognates of the name "Allāh" exist in other Semitic languages, including Hebrew and Aramaic.[3] The corresponding Aramaic form is אֱלָהָא ˀĔlāhā in Biblical Aramaic and ܐܰܠܳܗܳܐ ˀAlâhâ or ˀĀlōho in Syriac.[7].

According to Gerhard Böwering, the contraction of al- and ʾilāh in forming the term Allāh (“the deity” in the masculine form) parallels the contraction of al- and ʾilāha in forming the term al-Lāt (“the deity” in the feminine form). [2]
 

Mike Manson

Still Livin'
Apr 16, 2005
9,015
19,439
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#35
Poop!!! Not babble dude, Think about it, it's happening today. JW's are in every country in the world going door to door and offering people bible studies and everyone thinks they are a cult cuz they don't celebrate a bunch of pagan holidays or accept blood transfusions?
You stated every country in the world. I think you mean every State in the US...
 

Big E

Sicc OG
Nov 10, 2004
993
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#36
You stated every country in the world. I think you mean every State in the US...
Absolutely NOT. JW's are all over the world in every single country. Check it out at watchtower.org. I swear they are homies. No one will listen to me tho. The bible said in the end it will be like the days of Noah, where no one would listen to the good news and the all people will come to him and say Lord, Lord, did I not come to you and prophesy in your name? and he will say "I never knew you, get away from me you workers of lawlessness.
 

Big E

Sicc OG
Nov 10, 2004
993
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#37
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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This article is about reading of the name of God in Hebrew scripture. For other renderings of the name, see Tetragrammaton. For other uses of Jehovah, see Jehovah (disambiguation).
Jehovah is an English transcription of יְהֹוָה, which is a specific vocalized spelling of יהוה (i.e. the Tetragrammaton) that is found in the Masoretic Text.
יְהֹוָה has the consonants of the Tetragrammaton, and יְהֹוָה 's vowel points are similar to, but not precisely the same as the vowel points found in Adonai.
Since the beginning of the 17th century, [or possibly even earlier], scholars have questioned whether the vowel points found in יְהֹוָה are the actual vowel points of God's name. Some scholarly sources teach that יְהֹוָה has the vowel points of אֲדֹנָי [i.e. Adonai], but to be redundant, the vowel points of these two words are not precisely the same, and scholars are not in total agreement as to why יְהֹוָה does not have the precise same vowel points as Adonai has.


The first English translators of יְהֹוָה, believed they had the correct vowel points, and translated it as it was written:


Ex 6.4 displaying Jehovah in 1671 KJV"Jehova" in 1270 A.D. Latin.
"Iehouah" in 1530 A.D. English.
"Iehovah" in 1611 A.D. English.
"Jehovah" in 1671 A.D. English.
"Yehowah" used by some using another transcription of the consonants of the Tetragrammaton (See Yahweh).
Many religious followings, including Catholics [1] and Orthodox Christians have used the name Jehovah during the last 2 centuries.[2] King-James-Only Movement Christians believe that Jehovah is the correct name that English-speaking people shall use for God.[3] Jehovah's Witnesses have been using the name throughout the world (transliterated into the given native language) [4] as the most commonly spoken English pronunciation[5] of the Tetragrammaton.[6] Latter-day Saints believe that Jehovah was the name of the pre-mortal Jesus Christ,[7] and that he is a distinct being from God the Father, whom Latter-day Saints sometimes refer to as Elohim.[8]

Contents [hide]
1 Modern usage of the rendering Jehovah in printed publications
2 History
2.1 Early transcriptions of יהוה similar to "Jehovah"
2.2 Early transcriptions of יְהֹוָה similar to "Jehovah"
3 Kethib and Qere and Qere perpetuum
3.1 Examining the vowel points of יְהֹוָה and אֲדֹנָי
4 Critique of the transcription Jehovah in the 17th century
5 Summary of the criticism of the transcription Jehovah
6 In defense of the transcription Jehovah
7 Resulting consensus
8 More recent opinions
9 Use of "Jehovah" in English
10 References



[edit] Modern usage of the rendering Jehovah in printed publications
The following works, either always or sometimes render the Tetragrammaton as Jehovah:

The King James (Authorized) Version, 1611: i.e. four times as the personal name of God (in all capital letters), e.g. Exodus 6:3; Psalm 83:18; Isaiah 12:2; Isaiah 26:4; and three times in place names: Genesis 22:14; Exodus 17:15; and Judges 6:24.
Young's Literal Translation of the Holy Bible by J.N. Young, 1862, 1898 renders the Tetragrammaton as Jehovah 6831 times.
A literal translation of the Old Testament (1890) and the New Testament (1884) By John Nelson Darby renders the Tetragrammaton as Jehovah 6810 times in the main text.
The American Standard Version, 1901 edition, consistently renders the Tetragrammaton as Je-ho’vah in all 6,823 places where it occurs in the Old Testament.
The Modern Reader's Bible, 1914, by Richard Moulton, [3] uses Jehovah at Ps.83:18; Ex.6:2-9; Ex.22:14; Ps.68:4; Jerm.16:20; Isa.12:2 & Isa. 26:4
The New English Bible, published by Oxford University Press, 1970, e.g. Gen 22:14; Exodus 3:15,16; 6:3; 17:15; Judges 6:24
The Literal Translation of the Holy Bible copyright © 1976-2000 by Jay P. Green, Sr., renders the Tetragrammaton as Jehovah 6866 times.
The Living Bible, published by Tyndale House Publishers, Illinois 1971, e.g. Gen 22:14, Exodus 4:1-27; 17:15; Lev 19:1-36; Deut 4: 29, 39; 5:5, 6; Judges 6:16, 24; Ps 83:18; 110:1; Isaiah 45:1, 18; Amos 5:8; 6:8; 9:6
The New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures, published by Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc., Brooklyn, NY 1961 and last revised in 1984. Renders the Tetragrammaton about 7,200 times.
Some religious groups, notably Jehovah's Witnesses and the King-James-Only Movement, continue using the pronunciation Jehovah, either because the name has become a distinguishing feature of a worldwide organization which cannot be changed, or that it had already become well established in usage among followers at a time when the correct pronunciation of יהוה was unknown. Some groups continue to debate that Yahweh is an incorrect, invalid pronunciation and that Jehovah alone is the correct pronunciation.


[edit] History
Under the heading "יהוה c. 6823", the editors of the the Brown-Driver-Briggs Lexicon write that יְהֹוָה occurs 6518 times in the Masoretic Text.


[edit] Early transcriptions of יהוה similar to "Jehovah"
Ιεωα: (Ieōa, /ˈj:eek:ʊɐ/) in Hellenistic magical texts #
'#' marks forms listed by Sir Godfrey Driver.

[edit] Early transcriptions of יְהֹוָה similar to "Jehovah"

Excerpts from Raymond Martin's Pugio Fidei adversus Mauros et Judaeos of 1270 CE (page 559).
The word Jehovah displayed at the Roman Catholic Church named St. Martinskirche, Olten, Switzerland, 1521.
Graven image of the divine name as it is written on the wall of a Norwegian church. (Source: The Divine Name in Norway)Transcriptions of יְהֹוָה similar to
"Jehovah" occurred as early as the
13th century.

1278: Jehova/Yohoua: in the work Pugio fidei by the Spanish monk Raymond Martin (Raymundus Martini).[9]
1303: Yohouah: in the book entitled:porchetus' Victory Against the Ungodly Hebrews.by Porchetus de Salvaticis.[10].[3]
1518:Iehoua:in De Arcanis
Catholicæ Veritatis,1518, folio
xliii by Pope Leo X's confessor
Peter Galatin (Galatinus)
1530:Iehouah:Tyndale's Pentateuch
1611:Iehovah:King James Bible of 1611
1671:Jehovah:1671 [OT] / 1669 [NT] edition of the King James Bible
The editors of the Brown-Driver-Briggs Lexicon write that the pronunciation "Jehovah" was unknown until 1520 when it was introduced by Galatinus; but it was contested by Le Mercier, J. Drusius, and L. Capellus, as against grammatical and historical propriety.
Note that the English transcription "Jehovah" appears in King James Versions as early as the 1670's and in subsequent versions. The critique of the English transcription Jehovah, as well as the critique of Galatinus's Latin Transcription "Iehoua", and the earlier English transcriptions "Iehouah" and "Iehovah", is based on the belief of scholars, that the vowel points of יְהֹוָה are not the actual vowel points of God's name. Thus while most scholarly sources say that scholars are critiquing the name "Jehovah", Galatinus's Latin Transcription "Iehoua" and the earlier English transcriptions "Iehouah" [1530 A.D.] and "Iehovah" [1611 A.D.] were being critiqued, before the English transcription "Jehovah" [1671] ever started to appear. From a pronunciation standpoint in English, 'Iehouah' has the same pronunciation and sounds idential to 'Jehovah.'
All three transcriptions have the vowels "e" and "o" and "a", and scholars believe that those vowels are from another word [i.e. Adonay / Adonai], but as noted in the introduction of this article, the vowel points of יְהֹוָה and the vowel points of "Adonay / Adonai" are not precisely the same. [See Section 3 and Section 3.1 for more information]

[edit] Kethib and Qere and Qere perpetuum
The original consonantal text of the Hebrew Bible was provided with vowel marks by the Masoretes to assist reading. In places where the consonants of the text to be read (the Qere) differed from the consonants of the written text (the Kethib), they wrote the Qere in the margin as a note showing what was to be read. In such a case the vowels of the Qere were written on the Kethib. For a few very frequent words the marginal note was omitted: this is called Q're perpetuum.

One of these frequent cases was God's name, that should not be pronounced, but read as "adonai" ("My Lord [plural of majesty]"), or, if the previous or next word already was "adonai", or "adoni" ("My Lord"), as "elohim" ("God"). This combination produces יְהֹוָה and יֱהֹוִה respectively, non-words that would spell "yehovah" and "yehovih" respectively.

The first early modern English Bible translators to transcribe God's name into English did not contact Jewish scholars, and did not know of the Q're perpetuum custom, but transcribed "יְהֹוָה" into English as they saw it. It therefore became Iehouah in 1530 (Tyndale's translation of the Pentateuch), Iehovah in 1611, and Jehovah in editions of the KJ's dated 1670 or so; the spelling gradually settling down as Roman alphabet J and V became distinct letters from I and U. The transcription Iehouah was used in the 16th century by many authors Roman Catholic and Protestant, but not Coverdale's Bible translation in 1535. [11]


[edit] Examining the vowel points of יְהֹוָה and אֲדֹנָי

The spelling of the Tetragrammaton and connected forms in the Hebrew Masoretic text of the Bible, with vowel points shown in red.In the table below, Yehovah and Adonay are dissected

Hebrew Word #3068
YEHOVAH
יְהֹוָה Hebrew Word #136
ADONAY
אֲדֹנָי
י Yod Y א Aleph glottal stop
ְ .Simple Shewa E ֲ Hatef Patah A
ה Heh H ד Daleth D
ֹ Holem O ֹ Holem O
ו Vav V נ Nun N
ָ Qamets A ָ Qamets A
ה Heh H י Yod Y

Note in the table directly above that the "simple shewa" in Yehovah and the "hatef patah" in Adonay are not the same points. The same information is displayed in the table above and to the right where "YHWH intended to be pronounced as Adonai" and "Adonai, with its slightly different vowel points" are shown to have different vowel points.

The difference between the vowel points of ’ǎdônây and YHWH is explained by the rules of Hebrew morphology and phonetics. Shva and hataf-patah were allophones of the same phoneme used in different situations: hataf-patah on glottal consonants including aleph (such as the first letter in "Adonai"), and simple shva on other consonants (such as the 'y' in YHWH).


[edit] Critique of the transcription Jehovah in the 17th century
The transcription Jehovah [a.k.a. Iehouah] was used in the 16th century by many authors, both Catholic and Protestant. A publication by John Drusius at the beginning of the 17th century [e.g. 1604] was the start of a bitter debate that lasted for a century. Fuller, Thomas Gataker, and Johann Leusden wrote five discourses defending the transcription "Jehovah" [or Iehouah, Iehovah] against the five discources written by Drusius, Amama, Cappellus, Buxtorf, and Altingius which opposed the transcription Jehovah.
Hadrian Reland collected and published these ten discourses in 1707. [4]

Five Discourses in Opposition to the Transcription Jehovah
Author and Discourse Comments
John Drusius [1550 -1616] Tetragrammaton, sive de Nomine Die proprio, quod Tetragrammaton vocant (1604) John Drusius (= Johannes Van den Driesche) noting that the reading "Jehovah" is contrary to Jewish tradition, wrote about the 1518 form: "Primus in hunc errorem nos induxit Galatinus ... ante qui sic legerit, neminem novi" ("Galatinus first led us to this mistake ... I know [of] nobody who read [it] thus earlier..").[5] An editor of Drusius in 1698 knows of an earlier reading in Porchetus de Salvaticis however.[6]
According to the Brown-Driver-Briggs Lexicon, יְהֹוָה (Qr אֲדֹנָי) occurs 6518 times, and יֱהֹוִה (Qr אֱלֹהִים) occurs 305 times in the Masoretic Text. John Drusius wrote that neither יְהֹוָה nor יֱהֹוִה accurately represented God's name.[12]
Sixtinus Amama [1593-1659][13] De nomine tetragrammato (1628) [7] Sixtinus Amama, was a Professor of Hebrew in the University of Franeker. He was also a pious pupil of Drusius. [8]
Louis Cappel [1585-1658] De nomine tetragrammato, (1624) Lewis Cappel reached the conclusion that Hebrew vowel points were not part of the original Hebrew language. This view was strongly contested by John Buxtorff the elder, as well as by his son.
John Buxtorff [1564-1629 ] Disserto de nomine JHVH John Buxtorf the elder [9] controverted the views of Elias Levita regarding the late origin of the Hebrew vowel points, a subject which gave rise to the controversy between Louis Cappel and his (e.g. John Buxtorff the elder's) son, John Buxtorff the younger.
James Altingius [1618-1679] [10] Exercitatio grammatica de punctis ac pronunciatione tetragrammati

Note that while Louis Cappel and John Buxtorf are both listed as authors who opposed the transcription Jehovah, they each were involved in serious controversy with each other concerning the origin of the Hebrew vowel points.
Five Discourses in Defense of the Transcription Jehovah
Author and Discourse Comments
Nicholas Fuller [1557-1626] Nicholas was a Hebraist and a theologian. [11]
Thomas Gataker [1574-1654][12]
De Nomine Tetragrammato
Dissertaio (1645) [13] For further information, see:
Memoirs of the Puritans Thomas Gataker.
John Leusden [1624-1699]
Dissertationes tres, de vera
lectione nominis Jehova John Leusden wrote three discourses in defense of the name Jehovah. [14]


[edit] Summary of the criticism of the transcription Jehovah
The following text is found in William Smith's 1863 "A Dictionary of the Bible". William Smith gives his summary of the results of the ten discourses mentioned in the previous section:

In the decade of dissertations collected by Reland, Fuller, Gataker, and Leusden do battle for the pronunciation Jehovah, against such formidable antagonists as Drusius, Amama, Cappellus, Buxtorf, and Altingius, who, it is scarcely necessary to say, fairly beat their opponents out of the field; the only argument of any weight, which is employed by the advocates of the pronunciation of the word as it is written being that derived from the form in which it appears in proper names, such as Jehoshaphat, Jehoram, &c.
Their antagonists make a strong point of the fact that, as has been noticed above, two different sets of vowel points are applied to the same consonants under certain circumstances. To this Leusden, of all the champions on his side, but feebly replies.
The same may be said of the argument derived from the fact that the letters מוכלב, when prefixed to יהוה, take, not the vowels which they would regularly receive were the present pronunciation true, but those with which they would be written if אֲדֹנָי, adonai, were the reading; and that the letters ordinarily taking dagesh lene when following יהוה would, according to the rules of the Hebrew points, be written without dagesh, whereas it is uniformly inserted.
William Smith concludes:

Whatever, therefore, be the true pronunciation of the word, there can be little doubt that it is not Jehovah.

[edit] In defense of the transcription Jehovah

Geneva Bible, 1560. (Psalm 83:18)As mentioned in the previous section, the defenders of the transcription Jehovah believed that theophoric names such as Jehoshaphat, Jehoram, etc, indicated that Jehovah was the actual name of God. In the 19th century the Hebrew scholar Gesenius provided the defenders of the name Jehovah with support on this issue.

While Wilhelm Gesenius is noted for being the first Hebrew scholar to propose the punctuation "Yahweh", Gesenius believed that Yehowah more satisfactorily explained the Theophoric names which began with the "abbreviated syllable YHW [Yeho] or YW [Yo]".
In a post made on 08/22/03 at 12:36 am the following information is found:
Gesenius in his Hebrew and Chaldee Lexicon of the Old Testament Scriptures agrees saying:
"Those who consider that YHWH [Yehowah] was the actual pronunciation
are not altogether without ground on which to defend their opinion.
In this way can the abbreviated syllables YHW [Yeho] and YH [Yo],
with which many proper names begin, be more satisfactorily explained."

William Blake's manuscripts containing the word Jehovah.The following text is found in the first sentence of the article:JEHOVAH in William Smith's 1863 "A Dictionary of the Bible":

"JEHOVAH ( יְהֹוָה, usually with the vowel points of אֲדֹנָי ; but when the two occur together, the former is pointed יֱהֹוִה, that is with the vowels of אֱלֹהִים, as in Obad. i. 1, Hab. iii. 19:"
The two vocalizations of the Tetragrammaton shown in bold type above, were both critiqued by John Drusius in 1604 A.D., however as noted below, Davidson defends the vowel points of יְהֹוָה. [See also sub section 3.1 above.]
In Scott Jones Article:Jehovah under the heading "Davidson on the Tetragrammaton", Davidson explains why he believes that the fact that the Masoretes did not point יְהֹוָה with the precise same vowel points as are found in Adonay indicated that the vowel points of יְהֹוָה are the actual vowel points of God's name.
The vocalized Hebrew spelling "Yahweh" is found in no extant Hebrew text.
The central "ou" or "o" in some Greek transcriptions point to a pronunciation with a "u" or "o" vowel in the middle, i.e. "Yehowa".
However Greek, since it stopped using the digamma, when transcribing foreign words and names has had to write the "w" consonant sound as a vowel "u" or similar (or in later times as β, after the Greek pronunciation of β changed from "b" to "v").
For arguments for the pronunciation "Yahweh", see Yahweh.


[edit] Resulting consensus
Reland agreed with the opponents of "Jehovah", and since his days the majority opinion has been roughly what is expressed in the article JEHOVAH of the Jewish Encyclopedia of 1901-1906 [15], that the pronunciation was "Yahweh". See also:

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/1911_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_Britannica/Jehovah
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/1911_Encyclopædia_Britannica/Tetragrammaton

[edit] More recent opinions
The "JEHOVAH" article in the Jewish Encyclopedia of 1901-1906 agrees with (1) [16]. Most modern scholars agree with it.

The editors of the Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old Testament write "יַהְוֶה" under the heading "יהוה", and describes "יַהְוֶה" as:

"n.pr.dei Yahweh, the proper name of the God of Israel."

[edit] Use of "Jehovah" in English
1395: The Wycliffe Bible translation followed Jewish tradition and wrote 'Adonai', e.g. in Ex. 6:3. However, note that Wycliffe translated from Latin - namely the Latin manuscript(s) he had available to him; they do NOT contain the Tetragrammaton or any other Hebrew letters.
1530: "Iehouah" appeared in Tyndale's translation of the Pentateuch (at Exodus 6.3 for instance) upwards of 20 times. This custom continued with Miles Coverdale's translation in 1535, John Rogers Matthew Bible in 1537, the Great Bible of 1539, the Geneva Bible of 1560, Bishop's Bible of 1568, the King James of 1611, the Revised Version of 1885 and the American Standard Version in 1901. The Revised Standard Version (1952) was the first mainline English translation to not use Jehovah in the main text. Nor does it tranliterate 'alleluia' [sometimes 'Hallelujah'] in any of the four occurrences found in many English translations [in the 19th chapter of Revelation].
1611: יְהֹוָה is translated "IEHOVAH" ("JEHOVAH" from at least the 17th century on) in all uppercase in four places in the King James Bible of 1611 A.D.(Exodus 6:3, Psalm 83:18, Isaiah 12:2, Isaiah 26:4), and three times in placenames (e.g. Jehovah-jireh). Elsewhere in the King James Bible it is rendered as GOD or LORD. [14]

[edit] References
^ For example, this is the usage of the name Jehovah by the Catholic Encyclopedia.
^ Use of the name Jehovah has been made by famous Orthodox theologians like St. Nectarios, Kolitsaras, and Trempelas. However, it must be emphasized that Orthodox Christians almost always refer, and pray, to God as "God" or "Lord," and that "Jehovah," while used, is far less common than "Yahweh" (which itself is never used in daily life or in the invocation of a prayer, and used only extremely rarely in theological discourse). Terms such as "Holy Trinity," "Father," "Son," "Holy Spirit," "Jesus," and "Christ" are immeasurably more often used to refer to God.
^ The AV 1611 KJVO Discussion Board says: "Affirmative:The King James Bible is God's Word for all English speaking peoples". (e.g. KJVO Christians believe that Jehovah is the correct name that all English speaking people should use for God.)
^ Haiti: Temwen Jewova
Indonesia: Saksi-Saksi Yehuwa
Turkey: Yehova’nın Şahitleri
Congo: Mashahidi wa Yehova
Seychelles: Temwen Zeova
Serbia: Jehovini svedoci
Fiji: Vakadonui ni iVakadinadina i Jiova
(Source: www.watchtower.org)
^ [1]
^ [2]
^ LDS Church, Guide to the Scriptures: Jehovah.
^ LDS Church, Bible Dictionary: God.
^ On page 152 of Gerard Gertoux's book: "The name of God Y.EH.OW.AH which is pronounced as it is written I_EH_OU_AH" is a photo of bilingual Latin (or Spanish) text and Hebrew text [side by side] written by Raymond Martin in 1278 A.D, with in its last sentence "יְהוָֹה" opposite "yohoua".
^ Page 153 of Gerard Gertoux's book: "The name of God Y.EH.OW.AH which is pronounced as it is written I_EH_OU_AH"
^ In the 7th paragraph of "Introduction to the Old Testament of the New English Bible", Sir Godfry Driver wrote, "The Reformers preferred Jehovah, which first appeared as Iehouah in 1530 A.D., in Tyndale's translation of the Pentateuch (Exodus 6.3), from which it passed into other Protestant Bibles."
^ See Pages 209-210 of Gerard Gertoux's book: "The name of God Y.EH.OW.AH which is pronounced as it is written I_EH_OU_AH"
^ See page 8 [http://members.lycos.nl/breukelm/Latijnsebijbelvertalingen16deeeuw.pdf
^ In a chart labeled "The Bible Compared: Exodus", Exodus 6:3 shows "IEHOVAH" [in all capital letters] in the KJV [1611].
 

ThaG

Sicc OG
Jun 30, 2005
9,597
1,687
113
#38
Typical fanatic's babbling...

I asked you a simple question - why didn't the Christian/Jewish God (Allah) gave the Bible to all people in the world? If he really wanted them to hear about him?

You did not answer...
this was my question, in case yo forgot

you did not answer it, even though you copy-pasted about 10,000 words of nonsence
 

Mike Manson

Still Livin'
Apr 16, 2005
9,015
19,439
113
44
#40
Absolutely NOT. JW's are all over the world in every single country. Check it out at watchtower.org. I swear they are homies. No one will listen to me tho. The bible said in the end it will be like the days of Noah, where no one would listen to the good news and the all people will come to him and say Lord, Lord, did I not come to you and prophesy in your name? and he will say "I never knew you, get away from me you workers of lawlessness.
Well, I am in China, and I highly doubt them goin door to door over here. More than 1 billion peeps in China alone believe in Taoism and Buddhism.

Or doing that in any middle eastern country. lmao

Do you have any respect for other peoples believe?