Police shoot man 81 times *WARNING THIS IS GRAPHIC AND UNEDITED*

[Ethereal]

What does being an all knowing historian have to do with the FACT that there is NO KNOWN RECORD of this man killing a police officer or having been involved in the death of an officer? On what grounds are you claiming the man has been involved in the death of an officer? It doesn't take an all knowing historian to dig up the guys criminal record or to search for officer related homicides in his area.

1. Because in your last statement you did not mention "records", rather "there is no history of..". And as I have stated before not all crimes are reported.

2. The grounds upon which I made this claim are no different that yours when you suggested this man might have have suffered from some mental condition (to whatever degree) at the time of this incident.

These issues (of sanity) are first introduced in pretrial hearings. You don't intoduce insanity nine months down the line. LOL! In addition, good lawyers (and even bad lawyers who have nothing else to go on), will bring it up for several reasons, but I'm not going to get into it. Also, do you want me to post the stats/figures of insanity defenses in officer related killings? If so, I can post the info when I get back to california, and maybe then you'll understand why I said it would have been brought up.

You still don't know.

Thats how I felt when you originally typed it.

Sure.

You can also. All you have to do is click on the links I previously posted and you'll be taken to links with two numbers. I got extra credit for doing it, and when you are doing investigations or writing really good papers, it makes sense to actually call people and get info. Try it sometime, sport.

Sure.

No, these classes I am taking (and getting straight A's in) are opening up so many doors for me. What has your schooling done for you? Obviously nothing since you were stranded at Safeway and bagging groceries for old women and soccer moms. I'm simply not limiting the perspective to "he did it" and "he deserved it" like the majority of you all.

I was stranded at a grocery store bagging for all sorts of people (before I was promoted twice to a manager), this is true. I am now a Hospital Engineer. With my foot through this door I could quit school now and have this as great career. Of course I'm not going to sell myself short. My schooling has done a great deal for me. I have been going to school for about 3 years now. I initially started business/GE courses at Fresno City until I transfered to MJC. I am currently finishing up my GE courses so that I can transfer to CSUS to start working on my Engineering Degree (either Civil or Mechanical). All the while I am taking classes for my current position at the hospital.

Sure you have pal. If you had read books or taken anything pass an intro cj class these concepts would not appear foreign. However, you can't even begin to address how this man may not have been in his right mind at the time of the shootings.

These concepts are not foreign to me, you only assumed. And I can address the mans mental state, however, I do not believe it is worth my time; the man is dead and it will likely never be proven one way or the other.

For the last couple of pages now you have typed nothing that would lead a reasonable and sane person to believe you know anything about the cj system. Now am I saying I am an expert? No. Am I saying I know more than you? Hell yeah!

For this entire thread you have typed nothing.. of any worth, to anyone. Whew! That was hard. Clearly you are not an expert and that has been exhibited in this thread. Moving forward..

Am I saying you have not given any attention to MENS REA? Hell yeah! Again, if you had any significant knowledge of these things, you would elaborate on the concepts I am bringing to the table, but you are not doing so because you know nothing about them.

You and I both know that even if I had not taken any CJ classes (and as you have rightly assumed I have only taken an intro class) the fact that I could easily wikipedia these terms, understand them, and THEN elaborate on them negates this entire rant of yours. Now, the intro class I did take covered all of the terms you spat out, so there was no need to look them up. I still have no desire to get technical with CJ terms on this message board.

No, it has not been proven.

...

First of all, the reaosn why I don't believe you is because you aren't even using the terminology, and that speaks volumes. Second of all, the fact that you were focusing on MENTAL ILLNESS instead of his MENTAL STATE AT THE TIME OF THE INCIDENT speaks volumes. Third of all, you not addressing what EVERY COURT IN THE UNITED STATES HAS MADE A REQUIREMENT (two things needed to determine liability) speaks volumes. Fourth of all, you not giving us a valid reason as to why you don't believe whatever the hell it is you don't believe speaks volumes. If you had taken anytype of class or had any info you would have said something to teh effect of "mens rea may not be applicable in this case because of yada yada yada." Instead, you simply say "I don't believe it" LMAO!

Man.. what a bunch of dribble. I can't believe how much into yourself you are with these classes. Listen closely..

WE ARE NOT IN A CRIMINAL JUSTICE DEBATE FORUM.

So the use of terminology is not required, needed, neccesary or even desired by any members of this forum aside from you.

Why? So I can bag groceries like you? Oh, no thanks! However, see isle 7 for cleanup. I think some lady spilled milk or something on the floor. :dead:

If you're ever seriously injured, I hope you are sent to my hospital. :dead: You shouldn't have jumped the gun Junior. :dead:

 

[HERESY]

1. Because in your last statement you did not mention "records", rather "there is no history of..". And as I have stated before not all crimes are reported.

records = history. There are no records (or history) of him being involved in violence directed at officers, and implying he may have been (without ANY evidence) is laughable.

2. The grounds upon which I made this claim are no different that yours when you suggested this man might have have suffered from some mental condition (to whatever degree) at the time of this incident.

Actually, when you look at it, they are completely different. See, you are thinking "because he didn't listen he could be crazy" and "because he threatened an officer he could have killed an officer in the past." It is more realistic to think he was out of his mind than he was a cop killer.

Thinking he is out of his mind = not listening to the police, getting hit with bullets 22 times--this is realistic and rational as any reasonable person would not do this.

Thinking he is a cop killer = a guy making threats to shoot police and all he has is a slipper--this is not realistic and actually reinforces the "out of his mind" possibility.

You still don't know.

Why do you say I don't know? If you were his defense lawyer would you focus on an insanity plea?

Sure.

ok (in response to both of them)

I was stranded at a grocery store bagging for all sorts of people (before I was promoted twice to a manager), this is true. I am now a Hospital Engineer. With my foot through this door I could quit school now and have this as great career. Of course I'm not going to sell myself short. My schooling has done a great deal for me. I have been going to school for about 3 years now. I initially started business/GE courses at Fresno City until I transfered to MJC. I am currently finishing up my GE courses so that I can transfer to CSUS to start working on my Engineering Degree (either Civil or Mechanical). All the while I am taking classes for my current position at the hospital

That is good, and I hope you do well in your schooling and service to humanity. Since I'm close to getting my degree now I could easily hop out and get into community relations and public interest work, but I'm trying to stay in and flip it until the time is right.

These concepts are not foreign to me, you only assumed. And I can address the mans mental state, however, I do not believe it is worth my time; the man is dead and it will likely never be proven one way or the other.

It is because you can't do it. The man IS dead, but you and others would rather focus on his actions and place the liability solely on his shoulders instead of questioning his sanity which were DETRIMENTAL TO HIS ACTIONS. I'm trying to address every possible avenue and look at the things the law requires for liability--but I can't get you guys to do that.

For this entire thread you have typed nothing.. of any worth, to anyone. Whew! That was hard. Clearly you are not an expert and that has been exhibited in this thread. Moving forward..

Clearly I HAVE typed something if people are agreeing with me and the idiots are being trampled over like old bones. Again, it is YOU have shown that your schooling is not up to par, for if it were, you would focus on the issues presented and explain why they are not important instead of simply saying "they are not important." So, let us move forward, because it IS obvious that you don't know what YOU are talking about. :classic:

You and I both know that even if I had not taken any CJ classes (and as you have rightly assumed I have only taken an intro class) the fact that I could easily wikipedia these terms, understand them, and THEN elaborate on them negates this entire rant of yours.

So far you haven't done this, pal. If you were able to argue against me you would do so, but you are not able to do it so you simply say things like "he's dead it doesn't matter." Again, to prove liability you need two things, and since we have alreeady went over this mans actions we need to devote some time to his mental stability at the time of the incident. Why is it that yourself and others will not do this?

Now, the intro class I did take covered all of the terms you spat out, so there was no need to look them up. I still have no desire to get technical with CJ terms on this message board.

It doesn't matter if it is this message board or the next message board. Why shouldn't we use the technical terminology on this message board? Is this not the gathering of minds forum? Are the technical terms not applicable to the present topic? Are many people interested in this thread (obviously yes judging by the number of views and replies.) Again, if you were familiar with what I am talking about you would have no problem using the lingo, but the fact that you aren't using it and STILL can't argue your point leaves much to be desired. Do you think I would discuss the technical aspect of music and not use terms such as hard knee, soft knee, brick wall limiting, multing etc? Of course not, and if I know something, I am going to use the correct terms, in the correct fashion, and grind my point home regardless if people such as yourself accept it or not. Now if I was like that guy on In Living Color, and I started using terminology out of context, you would have some sort of valid reason to disregard what I am saying.

...

Cat got your tongue?

Man.. what a bunch of dribble. I can't believe how much into yourself you are with these classes. Listen closely..

WE ARE NOT IN A CRIMINAL JUSTICE DEBATE FORUM.

So the use of terminology is not required, needed, neccesary or even desired by any members of this forum aside from you.

Listen closely, I learn QUICKLY. My teachers like me and understand that I have a passion for all of this which is why some of them have taken me under their wing, introduced me to people, put bugs in the ears of good people (connected people) and encourage me to do my thing. We do not have to be in a criminal justice debate forum for me to bring these terms to light. If you can't hang, bow out of the thread and keep it moving. Listen, do you see me going in every law related thread saying things such as, "this is a pc246 violation" or something like that? Nope, so why are you so irritated by my willingness to rely on the education I have recieved so far to prove my position?

Again, the terminology is required because I set the standard for this thread and because it is totally relevent to the topic, and until you find some way to debunk it (with substance) I'll continue to use it. :classic:

If you're ever seriously injured, I hope you are sent to my hospital. You shouldn't have jumped the gun Junior.

LMAO! And what will you do to me? Will you slip in my room and put air or heroin in my IV? Will you come in and smother me with a pillow? If I'm at your hospital, I'll make sure I press the buzzer every thirty seconds so you're at my every command. I will CONSTANTLY order you to fetch me juice, bring me my slippers, and log me on the siccness (using my trusty laptop.) :classic:

 

[Cmoke]

Thinking he is a cop killer = a guy making threats to shoot police and all he has is a slipper--this is not realistic and actually reinforces the "out of his mind" possibility.

I think maybe YOU are out of your mind heresy.... did the cops know it was a slipper and not a gun? BEFORE HE WAS SHOT? Did he act as though he did have a gun? Yes. Did he threaten police officers with it? Yes. Man you are going downhill real fast.

 

[HERESY]

I think maybe YOU are out of your mind heresy.... did the cops know it was a slipper and not a gun? BEFORE HE WAS SHOT? Did he act as though he did have a gun? Yes. Did he threaten police officers with it? Yes. Man you are going downhill real fast.

To answer the question of "did the cops know it was a slipper and not a gun? BEFORE HE WAS SHOT?" Who knows? The officer who did NOT want to send in the dogs and who resigned afterwards may have known. To answer your question of, "Did he act as though he did have a gun?" I need to know how people with guns usually act. Don't they usually brandish the weapon (sarcasm is HEAVILY implied here.)Did he threaten police officers with it? What is it? Is "it" the gun that magically transformed into a slipper? I am going downhill fast? Buddy, you have made NO SENSE since you posted in this thread, and proof of this may be found in every post of yours. What you need to do is stop side stepping the issues and answer questions posed to you.

Lay off the narcotics.:dead:

 

[Cmoke]

"let that mutha fuckin dog go cuz......let em go.....and im gunna shoot all you mutha fuckas...."

what would your guess be? should somone just walk up and shake the guys hand and ask what he wants? Risking getting multiple ppl killed that tried to end it peacefully? I think you have blinders on to the world if you cant see that this guy wanted to die via cops...so that people like YOU can make an excuse out of it. These cops have lives, families, daughters, sons, just like anyone else. Why would they risk losing that because they thought it would be a good idea to trust somone who claims to have a weapon and claims they are ready to die and ready to use it against you.




oh ya and i smoke some weed and drink thats it but if u wanna keep playin that narcotics card go for it, you sound like a dumbfuck.

 

[HERESY]

"let that mutha fuckin dog go cuz......let em go.....and im gunna shoot all you mutha fuckas...."

Sounds like a nutcase to me.

what would your guess be?

Sounds like a nut IMHO.

should somone just walk up and shake the guys hand and ask what he wants?

That is an option. How about letting him talk to his GF who was sitting in teh squad car?

Risking getting multiple ppl killed that tried to end it peacefully?

Actually, it can be argued that the police did not end it peacefully (which is why a wrongful death suit was filed.)

? I think you have blinders on to the world if you cant see that this guy wanted to die via cops.

No, the guy was trying to bluff his way into talking to his woman. Thats what I see, but of course I am talking to a white guy, and I typically don't expect for white people to have compassion for inner city black males.

so that people like YOU can make an excuse out of it

You are a dummy, and how many times do I have to say he had a hand in his death? What I am trying to do is get people such as yourself (people who have NO IDEA about ANYTHING REMOTELY IMPORTANT) to see the OTHER side of the picture and to look at it from a different perspective. So far, you have shown that you are incapable of doing this. Your mental prowess is inadequate, and I know I am wasting my time talking to you--thats what I get for being a glutton for punishment.

These cops have lives, families, daughters, sons, just like anyone else.

Just like the guy they killed.

Why would they risk losing that because they thought it would be a good idea to trust somone who claims to have a weapon and claims they are ready to die and ready to use it against you.

They risked loosing it the day they were sworn in as an officer. They could have died in a car chase, could have died in an explosion, could have died by their own hand (which mosts officers die by anway), could have died by stress (which many officers die from) etc. Yes, he did claim he was ready to die, but he also claimed he would GIVE UP PEACEFULLY IF HE WAS ALLOWED TO TALK TO HIS GIRLFRIEND. Why not at least try that route instead of sending in the dog when he already said he would shoot IF they sent the dogs in?

oh ya and i smoke some weed and drink thats it but if u wanna keep playin that narcotics card go for it, you sound like a dumbfuck.

I may sound like a dumbfuck, but from the looks of things you are a dumbfuck. You indulge in narcotics and you shouldn't try to cover it up. What narcotics do you like? Your secret is safe with me buddy go ahead and come clean.

 

[THIZZ.I.IZ.]

wow hershey bar you do 4much

 

[Cmoke]

the second you pulled that racist card i stopped reading. you arnt worth my time anymore and i have lost all respect i had for you.

 

[HERESY]

wow hershey bar you do 4much

SPEAK ENGLISH.

 

[HERESY]

the second you pulled that racist card i stopped reading. you arnt worth my time anymore and i have lost all respect i had for you.

The second I pulled what racist card? The fact that I don't expect for white americans to have sympathy for inner city black males? YOU DON'T HAVE SYMPATHY FOR HIM, AND YOU'VE NEVER SHOWN PROOF OF HAVING CARED ABOUT BLACK MEN. Did you not say that he got what he deserved? Did you not say it constantly? Don't get mad because I'm actually striking a nerve and calling you out. In addition, I couldn't care less about the respect you lost for me. WHO ARE YOU THAT I SHOULD CARE ABOUT YOUR RESPECT FOR ME? :dead:


More proof that people like you don't read:

A lot of people on here are WHITE, and to be honest I don't expect many of the people on here to be sympathetic towards a black man. In addition, a lot of people are not sympathetic now, but let the same thing happen to their loved ones and they will go mad!

Mainstream america is WHITE. They will look at it how they have for the last 400 years.

Both were posted on page 5.

 

[ParkBoyz]

Csmoke has already proven himself to be a racist wigger. Which is kind of an oxymoron but some how he pulls it off..

 

[Cmoke]

how am i a racist now? and what the fuck do you think makes me a wigger? mr aug 2006 with 586 post knows alot about me....

 

[Cmoke]

off of page one for heresy...

dude got what he asked for but after he was no longer a threat that is disgusting how they totally ignore him as hes still moving dying on the ground...

trigger happy.

 

[Cmoke]

and just think.....he would be alive if he just complied. sad.

 

[HERESY]

how am i a racist now? and what the fuck do you think makes me a wigger? mr aug 2006 with 586 post knows alot about me....

WTF is up with you and your concern over the next mans posting habits? You made an entire thread/pole about stockton and now you are mentioning this mans posts! THIS IS A MESSAGE BOARD, AND DO YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENS ON MESSAGE BOARDS? PEOPLE POST! If he has 1,899,899,899,899,899,899 posts what is it to you? Do you own the site? Do you pay for bandwidth? Is he in violation of the rules?

dude got what he asked for but after he was no longer a threat that is disgusting how they totally ignore him as hes still moving dying on the ground...

trigger happy.

Again, you are a hypocrite and contradicted yourself. In fact, it would have been better if you had not posted that, and IMHO, you should leave this convo. Lets look at your post for a second...

You say "dude got what he asked for", but this actually supports my claim that people like you don't have sympathy for black people (especially black males.) You toss in the croc tears for everyone to see (the "oh it was disgusting BLAH BLAH BLAH"), but due to you CONSTANTLY saying he got what he deserved (which is not sympathetic at all) and not focusing on important issues (the mental state at the time of the incident), you leave no choice for people such as myself (the sane and intelligent) to even consider your alleged sincerity. But that is not all, cmoke. Heres where you actually sink your ship:

dude got what he asked for

and

trigger happy

:dead: Can you please explain to me who was trigger happy? Are you implying the police were trigger happy? Clearly you CANNOT mean HE was trigger happy because he did not fire ONE ROUND, so it is safe to assume you are saying the police are trigger happy. Does trigger happy imply negligence, haste, and a gung ho attitude? YES, AND SINCE THIS IS TRUE HOW DID HE GET WHAT HE ASKED FOR? :dead:

Please, don't go out of 2006 making a mockery of your noodles. Take my advice and leave this thread.

 

[Cmoke]

with every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

 

[HERESY]

with every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

LMAO!!!!!!!!! Please, don't go out of 2006 making a mockery of your noodles. Take my advice and leave this thread.

 

[THIZZ.I.IZ.]

who wants to bet hershey will be here minutes from the countdown to teh new year still arguing with cmoke lol

 

[2-0-NINE]

HAHAHA LMAO! HAD ME ROLLIN! HAHAHA

 

[HERESY]

who wants to bet hershey will be here minutes from the countdown to teh new year still arguing with cmoke lol

Nope, got plans buddy. I'm actually out of state and will bump into a certain siccness mod on new years.