OFFICIAL POLL: Whos got it better?

[n9newunsixx5150]

You really can't PROVE your own existence. But you accept it so long as you think and live.

Because I know my own limitations, and because I see that everything has an end and that something else begins in its place, I ultimately conclude that reality, The Supreme Whole, must exist INFINITELY. The Whole must be complete, for if it did not possess everything it would not be complete.
Accept reality as REALITY. Not a half conceived, fallible piece of shit. Know, by intrinsic nature into the self, that existence must be without cessation.
This is all very simple.

 

[EDJ]

^HOW YOU KNOW IT'S FOREVA?

 

[n9newunsixx5150]

Also...

I have personal experience of these truths. Of course, I cannot prove my own experiences to you. But I have experienced the reality that drives all Scripture and philosophy. I have also experienced the lack of knowledge that drives atheists. I have come from both sides. In an old post you were to imply that Scriptures are validated by the fact found in their historical account. But how does that justify spiritual teachings?
You must be looking within material things in justifying spiritual truth...
Of course, its all just yip-yap some game. Welcome to illusion...deja vu? yeah you've been here plenty of times...

Now on to Transcendental knowledge...

 

[n9newunsixx5150]

^HOW YOU KNOW IT'S FOREVA?

The Complete Whole must consist of everything...

Infinite substance, infinite anti-substance... infinite time (eternal; aka: forever, foreva...whateva, whatever)

 

[n9newunsixx5150]

^^^^^^^^

Or were you talking about the soul?

I do not submit myself to the illusion derived when mixing conceptions of matter and spirit. There is matter and there is life. These two things are completely separate realities. I can see that EVERY thing the body produces is reflected in its own nature. That nature is of things which constantly change and eventually perish. I can also see that the "I" behind every thought and action is fundamentally the same. I am never not myself as I think or do or exist in any capacity. Regardless of my mental condition, even though I may be wiser today than yesterday, the sense of "I" reigns above all these designations. And furthermore because I do not mix matters of spirit with those of material energy I can clearly see the position of a consciousness in its nature contrary to the temporal flesh-body.
Like I explained before, the material energy is being born and dying. The spiritual energy (the life force; that which animates the corpse) is eternal without cessation. Thus the life (soul) lives beyond the confines of any temporal body. But, it is due to the body that we are illusioned into thinking of matters in "life or death".

 

[UKantCMe]

wtf is a soul?

there is living and there is dead. PERIOD.

i don't denounce logic. logically there is living and dead. there is no logic that proves the soul moves from body to body. there is no logic that says one is superiour or that there is even any difference.

life produces life. sometimes life produces dead matter. if your logic was logical, then life would also produce "soul" without producing any matter. that is not logical and has never been proved. so instead of waiting for science to reanimate a corpse, wait for science to create a soul.

when scientist artificially inseminate "matter" or even clone "matter" they are creating matter. when this matter actually takes on life then it has a soul. if the matter never lives, then it has no soul. so logically your are talking out tha side of your neck.

 

[n9newunsixx5150]

wtf is a soul?

there is living and there is dead. PERIOD.

i don't denounce logic. logically there is living and dead. there is no logic that proves the soul moves from body to body. there is no logic that says one is superiour or that there is even any difference.

I explained the logic above. Read my posts again. Esp. the last one.

life produces life. sometimes life produces dead matter. if your logic was logical, then life would also produce "soul" without producing any matter. that is not logical and has never been proved. so instead of waiting for science to reanimate a corpse, wait for science to create a soul.

Life is soul. Soul produces soul (well, in actuality all soul is eternal). Body produces body. But overall, The Supreme Soul produces ALL, body and soul. My soul is not derived of my mother/father. My body, on the other hand is produced of the bodies of my mother/father, but the very material energy comes from The Supreme Soul. Science creating a soul would disprove the soul, not prove it. The soul is not created. The soul is eternal.

note: I use the term "soul produces soul" although the soul is eternal. What I mean by this is the soul coming into a body. The soul being "produced" or "introduced" into the body.

when scientist artificially inseminate "matter" or even clone "matter" they are creating matter. when this matter actually takes on life then it has a soul. if the matter never lives, then it has no soul. so logically your are talking out tha side of your neck.

What is your point? You made no point here...
First of all, no one can truly say that they create ANYTHING. No one can say that the materials they used were created by themselves. We all utilize energies ultimately beyond our control. We have very limited control and we marvel at our own ability to slightly alter a few atoms. But, we do not own the energy for even the work it takes to do these things. Scientists merely use laws to obtain the known effect. If I stick my penis inside a woman's vagina and moved in and out until I ejaculated, I might create a baby. I would be foolish to actually believe that I just made something out of void. I merely made manifest in a certain way an energy that already existed. Not my sperm, nor her egg produced the soul. They produced a body befitting for the soul to reside within.

 

[MizeryU]

916 all of your posts are complete bullshit

 

[EDJ]

NINONESIX,
YOU STRESSED, "The Complete Whole must consist of everything...

Infinite substance, infinite anti-substance... infinite time (eternal; aka: forever, foreva...whateva, whatever)"

HOW YOU KNOW? SO YOU SAYIN' WE ARE PERFECT?


THEN YOU STRESSED, "In an old post you were to imply that Scriptures are validated by the fact found in their historical account. But how does that justify spiritual teachings?"

THEN YOU STRESSED, "You must be looking within material things in justifying spiritual truth...
"
HOW'S THAT?

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Welcome to illusion...deja vu? yeah you've been here plenty of times..."

HOW HAVE I BEEN HERE?


THEN YOU STRESSED, "Or were you talking about the soul?"

I WAS TALKIN' BOUT THE COMPLETE WHOLE, WHICH YOU BROUgHT UP. WHAT IS THE COMPLETE WHOLE?

THEN YOU STRESSED, "I do not submit myself to the illusion derived when mixing conceptions of matter and spirit."

WHAT ILLUSION?

THEN YOU STRESSED, ". There is matter and there is life. These two things are completely separate realities."

HOW YOU KNOW? HOW YOU FIgURE?

THEN YOU STRESSED, "That nature is of things which constantly change and eventually perish. I can also see that the "I" behind every thought and action is fundamentally the same. I am never not myself as I think or do or exist in any capacity."

HOW'S THAT?


THEN YOU STRESSED, "Regardless of my mental condition, even though I may be wiser today than yesterday, the sense of "I" reigns above all these designations"

HOW'S THAT?

THEN YOU STRESSED, ". And furthermore because I do not mix matters of spirit with those of material energy I can clearly see the position of a consciousness in its nature contrary to the temporal flesh-body."

HOW'S THAT?


THEN YOU STRESSED, "Like I explained before, the material energy is being born and dying. The spiritual energy (the life force; that which animates the corpse) is eternal without cessation."

HOW YOU KNOW?

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Thus the life (soul) lives beyond the confines of any temporal body."

LET YOU TELLIT. YOU ASSUMIN'.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "But, it is due to the body that we are illusioned into thinking of matters in "life or death"."

HOW ARE WE ILLUSIONED?

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Life is soul."

HOW'S THAT? HOW YOU FIgURE?

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Soul produces soul (well, in actuality all soul is eternal). Body produces body."

HOW'S THAT?

THEN YOU STRESSED, "But overall, The Supreme Soul produces ALL, body and soul"

WHAT IS THE SUPREME SOUL?

THEN YOU STRESSED, "My soul is not derived of my mother/father. My body, on the other hand is produced of the bodies of my mother/father, but the very material energy comes from The Supreme Soul."

HOW YOU KNOW?

THEN YOU STRESSED, "The soul is not created. The soul is eternal."

HOW YOU KNOW?

THEN YOU STRESSED, "The spiritual energy (the life force; that which animates the corpse) is eternal without cessation."

HOW YOU FIgURE?

THEN YOU STRESSED, "First of all, no one can truly say that they create ANYTHING."

HOW'S THAT? IF MY SPERM WAS USED TO CREATE A BABY, HOW'S THAT NOT ME BEIN' PART OF THAT EQUATION?

THEN YOU STRESSED, "No one can say that the materials they used were created by themselves."

IT DON'T MATTER, AS LONg AS YOU PART OF THE PROCESS AND EQUATION.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "We all utilize energies ultimately beyond our control. We have very limited control and we marvel at our own ability to slightly alter a few atoms"

SO? WE STILL IN THE EQUATION.

THEN YOU STRESSED, ". But, we do not own the energy for even the work it takes to do these things. Scientists merely use laws to obtain the known effect."

SO? WE NATURELY USE THESE THANgS BEYOND OUR CONTROL.

 

[n9newunsixx5150]

NINONESIX,
YOU STRESSED, "The Complete Whole must consist of everything...

Infinite substance, infinite anti-substance... infinite time (eternal; aka: forever, foreva...whateva, whatever)"

HOW YOU KNOW? SO YOU SAYIN' WE ARE PERFECT?

When you use the term "we", do you mean us as a species or us as spirit-soul? As a species we are imperfect. As spirit-soul we are perfect, but we falsely identify with the imperfect body and its imperfect senses. How do I know there is a complete whole? I accept what is logical. Any concept contrary to this basic philosophy is illogical, no matter how you look at it. As I explained before, so far as I live and think I am inclined to accept and come to logical conclusions. There is no agnostic side. One either accepts the premise of a Supreme Reality or one accepts chaos/void. By one saying that they do not accept either premise is foolishness. "No premise" is void/chaos. And given our knowledge of existence on this level, to conclude void/chaos as a plausible reality is ridiculous. Accepting a Supreme and substantial reality underlying all fleeting material things and events is accepted by default and by logic.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "In an old post you were to imply that Scriptures are validated by the fact found in their historical account. But how does that justify spiritual teachings?"

THEN YOU STRESSED, "You must be looking within material things in justifying spiritual truth...
"
HOW'S THAT?

I am just saying that spiritual knowledge is transcendental to material conditions. Thus, if certain material conditions are found to be false or made-up, the transcendental knowledge remains intact. How is this? Because if you do not accept life (soul) over matter then you ultimately believe in chaos/void. And your mind and actions willreflect this lack of knowledge, this "void" of knowledge.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Welcome to illusion...deja vu? yeah you've been here plenty of times..."

HOW HAVE I BEEN HERE?

We all have. I'm not picking on you. We mistake the fleeting thing before us as substantial reality. Some of us, realizing this world's unsubstantiality, instead conclude that there is no substantial reality. This is illogical for as long as I think and live I will accept what is logical. Whoever it is that will denounce logic in this case and then turn around to use logic in their everyday decision making is a hypocrite.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Or were you talking about the soul?"

I WAS TALKIN' BOUT THE COMPLETE WHOLE, WHICH YOU BROUgHT UP. WHAT IS THE COMPLETE WHOLE?

INFINITY. Try to accept the concept as a whole, instead of trying to conceive of it from a metric point of view.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "I do not submit myself to the illusion derived when mixing conceptions of matter and spirit."

WHAT ILLUSION?

The Chaos/void illusion, I already explained.

THEN YOU STRESSED, ". There is matter and there is life. These two things are completely separate realities."

HOW YOU KNOW? HOW YOU FIgURE?

By study of the nature of the self as I already explained. And because I think contrary to any conception that will lead to accepting void/chaos as a premise.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "That nature is of things which constantly change and eventually perish. I can also see that the "I" behind every thought and action is fundamentally the same. I am never not myself as I think or do or exist in any capacity."

HOW'S THAT?

Think about it. You have responded to me multiple times here and everytime you did you were never not "EDJ". I am merely stating obvious truths. If I said, "broccoli is green", would you ask, "how's that?"

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Regardless of my mental condition, even though I may be wiser today than yesterday, the sense of "I" reigns above all these designations"

HOW'S THAT?

Because IT IS. I am who I am just as YOU are who YOU are. This is obvious. You can get into the debate against your own existence if you want, but I won't take part in such nonsense.

THEN YOU STRESSED, ". And furthermore because I do not mix matters of spirit with those of material energy I can clearly see the position of a consciousness in its nature contrary to the temporal flesh-body."

HOW'S THAT?

I already explained the philosophy. I already explained my premise and why I choose it over "no premise". If you put it all together, the rest of your questions are all answered.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Like I explained before, the material energy is being born and dying. The spiritual energy (the life force; that which animates the corpse) is eternal without cessation."

HOW YOU KNOW?

The concept of spirit is in oposition to the nature of matter. That is how it is philosophically understood. All authorized Scripture and all philosophies worthy of the name accept this logical premise for reality.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Thus the life (soul) lives beyond the confines of any temporal body."

LET YOU TELLIT. YOU ASSUMIN'.

No, I am concluding. I accept what is logical based on studying such things as the self. I merely put faith on top of my logic, but not the other way around. No one is obliged to accept anything. The fruits of any actions/thoughts should be experienced in order to come to a logical conclusion. I have tasted atheism as much as I have tasted theism. I have chosen what follows but I am always open to arguments opposing my understanding. Although, I have yet to come to an atheist argument I have not already heard and defeated.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "But, it is due to the body that we are illusioned into thinking of matters in "life or death"."

HOW ARE WE ILLUSIONED?

False ego. The identification of the self as the body.


to be continued...

 

[n9newunsixx5150]

continued from last page...

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Life is soul."

HOW'S THAT? HOW YOU FIgURE?

Because that is the definition of the soul. The soul is what animates gross and subtle matter into the life-forms we have.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Soul produces soul (well, in actuality all soul is eternal). Body produces body."

HOW'S THAT?

Your parents produced your current body. If you still don't know how that can be, ask your parents. They should have had this talk with you quite some time ago.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "But overall, The Supreme Soul produces ALL, body and soul"

WHAT IS THE SUPREME SOUL?

It is known by title and by names...God, The Supreme Lord, The substantial reality behind this world, Yahweh, Allah, Krsna, Visnu...etc.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "My soul is not derived of my mother/father. My body, on the other hand is produced of the bodies of my mother/father, but the very material energy comes from The Supreme Soul."

HOW YOU KNOW?

I accept logic. I am a logical being who happens to have a very specifically designed mind and body. I merely act according to my nature.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "The soul is not created. The soul is eternal."

HOW YOU KNOW?

I have explained this.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "The spiritual energy (the life force; that which animates the corpse) is eternal without cessation."

HOW YOU FIgURE?

I accept a substantial reality. Substantial must be all-enduring (eternal and infinite) otherwise it is NOT substantial. The only other choice is void/chaos. This concept leads you nowhere but further bewilderment. I have walked both paths so I can say I have the personal experience.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "First of all, no one can truly say that they create ANYTHING."

HOW'S THAT? IF MY SPERM WAS USED TO CREATE A BABY, HOW'S THAT NOT ME BEIN' PART OF THAT EQUATION?

You are a part of the equation, but being a part of the equation does not constitute you being the creator. What you have is not on your own accord. What you have is given to you. To forget this is to abide into illusion.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "No one can say that the materials they used were created by themselves."

IT DON'T MATTER, AS LONg AS YOU PART OF THE PROCESS AND EQUATION.

It does matter when most people falsely believe that they are both the creators and enjoyers of all they survey. Even many who do say that they do not believe this of themselves, will go out and act and think in the manner that they do. Some only see it subconciously, others outright admit that they feel themselves to be supreme in their dealings and manipulations with material energy.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "We all utilize energies ultimately beyond our control. We have very limited control and we marvel at our own ability to slightly alter a few atoms"

SO? WE STILL IN THE EQUATION.

I never said we weren't.

THEN YOU STRESSED, ". But, we do not own the energy for even the work it takes to do these things. Scientists merely use laws to obtain the known effect."

SO? WE NATURELY USE THESE THANgS BEYOND OUR CONTROL.

I originally made the statement that we are not the creators of anything. This statement still stands. I am glad to see that you understand that we are part of the equation. Conclude then that there must be a Whole Equation.

 

[UKantCMe]

916 nothing you state is "logical". yet your whole point is that everything you say is true because of logic. so start over and explain it logically. otherwise you're just making empty opinions.

everyone else here that disagrees with you is just as logical as you are. the only difference is we use the logic of reality. you are using some imaginary logic. so prove your point or just say "this is what i believe...".

 

[n9newunsixx5150]

Everything bottomlines down to an accepted premise, (emphasis on the word ACCEPTED). I have explained why I LOGICALLY accept the premise that I do. Everything I have said here that is built atop that premise follows in logic and reasoning. Of course, if you or anyone else on this thread doesn't accept the same premise then it will appear to be merely my opinions.
My premise is of a Supreme and substantial reality that underlies all manifesations. This is basically an impersonal understanding of God. The only other option than this is void/chaos theory. I have given plenty of reasons and examples as to why void/chaos theory is illogical and nonsensical. And how, even those who say they accept niether premise, still act and think based on the premise of void/chaos theory. Because void/chaos theory is just void/chaotic of knowledge and intelligence and if one accepts no premise they are... void/chaotic of knowledge and intelligence.
There is either a foundation or there isn't. For a foundation to be substantial it has to have infinite traits. It must be The Complete Whole and this Whole must be infinite in all respects...
I have already explained this...
Checc your premise.

 

[2-0-Sixx]

^^^HOW CAN YOU EVEN USE THE WORD "LOGIC" WHEN YOU ARE THE MOST ILLOGICAL THINKER ON THIS BOARD? NOTHING YOU HAVE STATED HAS ANY LOGIC BEHIND IT NOR DOES IT HAVE THE SLIGHTEST BIT OF EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT IT.

 

[UKantCMe]

ok, thank you. so that is just what you "accept". then i can respect you for that.

but you accept one premise only because the other doesn't make sense to you? thats like saying if someone was killed and noone knew who did it, then it was done by the little man in the in the dishwasher that cleans all the cups. maybe you jumped to a conclusion too soon. maybe there is more to the story. maybe you just didn't look at all the clues...

 

[2-0-Sixx]

then it was done by the little man in the in the dishwasher that cleans all the cups.

ROFL!

 

[Blight]

HAha, yeah some funny replies and good opinions, i just wonder why theres only 12 votes.............

 

[n9newunsixx5150]

^^^^

EVERYTHING besides the premise I have accepted is UNSUBSTANTIAL.

Yes, 2-0-sixx... Your premise is unsubstantial and thus faulty. I have been through all these different philosophies and I can now see all the major flaws. I have chosen the ONLY valid premise.
Atheists come from the platform of ignorance and actually think they can gain real knowledge by experimentation. Oblivious...

I don't accept something because it sounds the best. I accept true substantiality. There is no "little man in the dishwasher" I am accepting. That analogy is coming from someone who obviously has no idea what he is talking about.
No one is obliged to accept true substantiality. Fucc, no one is obliged to accept that 3 + 3 = 6. Do whatever you want. Come up with whatever abstract theories you want. I can see where they are all defeated and thus unsubstantial.
Without true substantiality all your knowledge is built on nothing (perhaps your false egos), and your words are shouted into oblivion. Experimentation will never get anyone to the truth of existence.
Ya'll atheists and agnostics are floating around with false sense of authority. If you want to argue premise, go ahead. I have heard the best of the atheist arguments. I used to be one! Its all foolishness merely to be contrary to the fact.

Test me...

 

[EDJ]

N9NEWUNSIXX5150,

YOU STRESSED, "When you use the term "we", do you mean us as a species or us as spirit-soul?"

I MEAN IT AS CREATED BEINgS.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "As spirit-soul we are perfect, but we falsely identify with the imperfect body and its imperfect senses."

HOW YOU KNOW THE SPIRIT IS THE SAME AS THE SOUL?

THEN YOU STRESSED, "How do I know there is a complete whole? I accept what is logical. Any concept contrary to this basic philosophy is illogical, no matter how you look at it. As I explained before, so far as I live and think I am inclined to accept and come to logical conclusions."

WHAT'S SO LOgICAL ABOUT ASSUMIN' ABOUT A COMPLETE WHOLE? WHAT IS
THEN YOU STRESSED, "In an old post you were to imply that Scriptures are validated by the fact found in their historical account. But how does that justify spiritual teachings?"

SPIRITUAL IS DIFFERENT THAN HISTORICAL. HISTORICAL ACCOUNTS IS ONE WAY THE BIBLE PROVES IT'S AUTHENTICITY. PROPHESY IS ANOTHA. THE SPIRITUAL IS A PERSONAL MATTER.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "There is no agnostic side. One either accepts the premise of a Supreme Reality or one accepts chaos/void."

HOW'S THAT? REALITY IS THAT WE ARE ALL gONNA DIE. WHAT YOU ARE CONSCIOUS OF NOW IS REALITY. IF YOU CUT YOURSELF IT'S gONNA HURT AND YOU'RE gONNA BLEED. IF YOU gET BLASTED AND YOUR BODY QUITS PERFORMIN' ITS FUNCTIONS THEN YOU DIE. IF YOU FORTUNATE TO LIVE THIS LIFE THEN YOU gROW OLD AND DIE. THOSE ARE THE REALITIES WE ALL KNOW. CAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT'S BEYOND DEATH. NONE OF US DO. SO IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN A CREATOR, THEN YOU ARE CONFUSED AND AgNOSTIC. BUT THE FACT REMAINS THAT YOU STILL LIVE AND ARE gONNA DIE. THAT'S ALL WE KNOW.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "And given our knowledge of existence on this level, to conclude void/chaos as a plausible reality is ridiculous. Accepting a Supreme and substantial reality underlying all fleeting material things and events is accepted by default and by logic."

BY DEFAULT? WHAT ARE YOU A COMPUTER? LOL IT'S ONLY NATURAL FOR MAN TO HAVE A SENSE THAT HE WAS CREATED. THAT'S OUR NEED FOR SPIRITUALITY. BUT IN REALITY, WE CAN'T PROVE SHIT AND ALL WE KNOW IS THAT WE gONNA gROW OLD AND DIE. THAT'S NOT A PREMISE BUT A KNOWN FACT.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "I am just saying that spiritual knowledge is transcendental to material conditions. Thus, if certain material conditions are found to be false or made-up, the transcendental knowledge remains intact. How is this? Because if you do not accept life (soul) over matter then you ultimately believe in chaos/void. And your mind and actions willreflect this lack of knowledge, this "void" of knowledge."

SEE, YOU ASSUMIN' OR HAVE THE "PREMISE" THAT THE SOUL IS LIFE WHEN IN FACT YOUR SOUL IS PART OF YOUR EARTHLY BODY. WHEN YOU DIE, YOUR SOUL IS RESTIN'. YOUR SPIRIT IS THEN BAK TO THE MEMORY OF IT'S CREATOR.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "We all have. I'm not picking on you. We mistake the fleeting thing before us as substantial reality. Some of us, realizing this world's unsubstantiality, instead conclude that there is no substantial reality. This is illogical for as long as I think and live I will accept what is logical. Whoever it is that will denounce logic in this case and then turn around to use logic in their everyday decision making is a hypocrite."

SO WHAT ARE YOU BASICALLY SAYIN'? THAT IT'S LOgICAL TO THINK YOU WERE AT A PLACE BEFORE IN A DIFFERENT LIFE FORM?

THEN YOU STRESSED, "INFINITY. Try to accept the concept as a whole, instead of trying to conceive of it from a metric point of view."

NOW YOU TRYIN' TO gIVE CREATED BEINgS gODLY ATTRIBUTES. THERE IS ONLY ONE THAT IS INFINITE, THE ALPHA AND THE OMEgA, THE BEgINNIN' AND THE END. TO TRY TO LOgICALLY PUT YOURSELF IN THAT POSITION IS BLASPHEMOUS. WE CAN'T EVEN COMPREHEND THE CONCEPT OF ETERNITY AND INFINITY, MUCH LESS BE THAT.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "The Chaos/void illusion, I already explained."

AND MAY I ADD, NOT WELL EITHA. SO WHAT'S THE ILLUSION AND WHAT IS THE REALITY?

THEN YOU STRESSED, "By study of the nature of the self as I already explained. And because I think contrary to any conception that will lead to accepting void/chaos as a premise."

HOW DID YOU EXPLAIN THIS STUDY OF SELF? YOU HAVE TO HAVE gUIDANCE INSTEAD OF BEIN' BLIND TRYIN' TO LEAD OTHAS THAT ARE BLIND.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Think about it. You have responded to me multiple times here and everytime you did you were never not "EDJ". I am merely stating obvious truths. If I said, "broccoli is green", would you ask, "how's that?""

YUP. AND I WOULD WANT PROOF. WHAT YOU MIgHT PERCEIVE AS AN OBVIOUS TRUTH, I MIgHT PERCEIVE AS A "PREMISE", UNTIL YOU EXPLAIN IN THUROUgH LENgTH WHY IS THIS THAT WAY AND WHY I PERCEIVE THIS THAT WAY AND TRY TO FIND COMMON gROUND TO WHERE I'LL COMPREHEND WHY YOU LOgICALLY BREAK IT DOWN HOW YOU DO WITHOUT N-E FLAWS. LIKE THE QUESTION, "IS BROCCOLI gREEN?" AND YOU ASK, "HOW'S THAT?" I WOULD BREAK IT ON DOWN TO THE MATTER BROCOLI IS COMPOSED OF AND HOW IT USES THE SUN FOR COLORATION AND HOW OUR RETINAS IN OUR EYES PERCEIVE IT IN THE COLOR SPECTRUM IN THE CONDITION WE LIVE AND THE ILLUMINATION OF THE SUN, AND HOW WE HUMANS LABELED THAT PIgMENTATION "gREEN". THAT'S HOW FOO'.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Because IT IS. I am who I am just as YOU are who YOU are. This is obvious. You can get into the debate against your own existence if you want, but I won't take part in such nonsense."

WHAT'S YOUR POINT? YOU SAID "I" AS IF YOU VERY EgOCENTRIC.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "I already explained the philosophy. I already explained my premise and why I choose it over "no premise". If you put it all together, the rest of your questions are all answered."

THEY'RE NOT. I'M STILL CONFUSED WHY YOU SEPERATE THE MATERIAL ENERgY AND MATTERS OF SPIRIT.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "The concept of spirit is in oposition to the nature of matter. That is how it is philosophically understood. All authorized Scripture and all philosophies worthy of the name accept this logical premise for reality."

O.K. SO HOW IS IT IN OPPOSITION?

THEN YOU STRESSED, "No, I am concluding. I accept what is logical based on studying such things as the self. I merely put faith on top of my logic, but not the other way around. No one is obliged to accept anything. The fruits of any actions/thoughts should be experienced in order to come to a logical conclusion. I have tasted atheism as much as I have tasted theism. I have chosen what follows but I am always open to arguments opposing my understanding. Although, I have yet to come to an atheist argument I have not already heard and defeated."

WHAT IS STUDYIN' THE SELF? BUT YOU CONCLUDED THAT THE THE LIFE IS THE SOUL, BUT HOW YOU KNOW THE SOUL AIN'T PART OF THE BODY?

THEN YOU STRESSED, "False ego. The identification of the self as the body."

IT IS ONLY LOgICAL TO THINK OURSELVES AS THE BODY IN THIS REALITY CAUSE WE KNOW NO OTHA. AIN'T NO ILLUSION THERE. SO IF I SOK YOUR ASS, YOU TELLIN' ME THAT THE ILLUSION IS PAIN? YOU SAYIN' THE PAIN AIN'T REAL?

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Because that is the definition of the soul. The soul is what animates gross and subtle matter into the life-forms we have."

THAT DON'T MEAN THAT THE SOUL EXISTS BEYOND THE BODY.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Your parents produced your current body. If you still don't know how that can be, ask your parents. They should have had this talk with you quite some time ago."

CUT THE SARCASM. YOU STRESSED THAT SOUL PRODUCES SOUL AND THAT IT IS ETERNAL. I ASKED "HOW WAS THAT?" HOW IS SOUL ETERNAL?

THEN YOU STRESSED, "I have explained this."

NO YOU HAVEN'T. YOU CAME WITH SOME SARCASM SIDEWAYISM.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "I accept a substantial reality. Substantial must be all-enduring (eternal and infinite) otherwise it is NOT substantial. The only other choice is void/chaos. This concept leads you nowhere but further bewilderment. I have walked both paths so I can say I have the personal experience."

WAY TO PUT ETERNAL AND INFINITE IN BRACCETS. BUT HOW YOU KNOW SOMETHIN' SUBSTANTIAL IS INFINITE AND ETERNAL? HAVE YOU LIVED FOREVA TO KNOW THIS?

THEN YOU STRESSED, "You are a part of the equation, but being a part of the equation does not constitute you being the creator. What you have is not on your own accord. What you have is given to you. To forget this is to abide into illusion."

BULLSHIT. IF I'M PART OF THE EQUATION I CAN SAY I'M PART OF THE CREATION, THUS MAKIN' ME ONE OF THE CREATORS. IF IT'S gIVEN TO ME THEN IT'S gIVEN TO ME. THAT DON'T MEAN I WASN'T USED TO CREATE, THUS MAKIN' ME A WAY FOR THAT CREATION.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "It does matter when most people falsely believe that they are both the creators and enjoyers of all they survey. Even many who do say that they do not believe this of themselves, will go out and act and think in the manner that they do. Some only see it subconciously, others outright admit that they feel themselves to be supreme in their dealings and manipulations with material energy."

WHY IS THAT? CAUSE TO THEM THEY ONLY BELIEVE WHAT THEY SEE. THAT IS THEIR REALITY.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "I never said we weren't."

SO WHAT'S YOUR POINT?

THEN YOU STRESSED, "I originally made the statement that we are not the creators of anything. This statement still stands. I am glad to see that you understand that we are part of the equation. Conclude then that there must be a Whole Equation."

AND WHAT IS THE WHOLE EQUATION?

 

[n9newunsixx5150]

@EDJ

1. The material body is not perfect, it is fallible. We all know that it eventually decays. It is impure. etc, etc, etc.

2. Some people equate the concept of soul to the material personality. I do not. I suppose it comes down to one's definition. I think, in general, the soul is the substantial existence of the individual beyond all material designations. Spirit is the same concept but I see the term spirit used more in general, rather than just for the individual. I will use the term "spirit-soul" just as I will use the term "flesh-body". See the similarity?

3. I accept that reality doesn't cease to exist when I close my eyes, or when I die. I also accept that reality is full and complete. Now, I understand that the terms "full" and "complete" usually, on a material level, signify a finite existence. But, I accept these terms, in the case of existence itself, as being the Full and Complete without bounds or limitations. I accept the concept of infinity in its whole rather than seeing it from a point of metrics. To try and prove it from the point of metrics only confuses and serves no purpose to understanding existence itself. That's one of the prerequisites of true substantiality that I accept in my premise, infinity.

4.You said "spiritual is a personal matter". I agree in that it is a personal experience. But, if you are to imply that spiritual reality is subject to each individual, I will firmly disagree. Truth is objective and knowledge is realized, not made. The Bible can have its historical events proven or disproven. Regardless, spiritual truth is eternal and infallible. The Bible seems to give flat out spiritual conclusions without explaining the philosophy behind it, or it only hints at spiritual truths. But, then again, thats just the way I have seen the Bible. Sometimes the so-called historical events give good example or parable in understanding certain spiritual truths. Regardless, spirit is transcendental to material events and designations.

5."HOW'S THAT? REALITY IS THAT WE ARE ALL gONNA DIE. WHAT YOU ARE CONSCIOUS OF NOW IS REALITY. IF YOU CUT YOURSELF IT'S gONNA HURT AND YOU'RE gONNA BLEED..."

This is all understood to be truth of the material body. If I say, "my body" or "my mind", etc, who am I referring to as the proprietor of these things? The "I" sense is different from the body and the mind. Not merely because of the way we form our sentences in this case, but in understanding the nature of the "I". I have explained this already. This may not PROVE anything to you. Real knowledge is given and is either accepted or not accepted. I accept "I" and I am conscious of the material senses engaged with their objects. Regardless of the cause or results of these engagements...I am "I". Thus, "I" am not the effect of the body's condition, this is true ego. False ego is the sense of "I" that feels itself to be entangled in the cause and effect of the engagement of the senses and it's objects.


I'll get to the rest a little later...