Only societies I can think of that has high number of emotional type of crimes is in the african continent. Places like uganda where sexual crime is on a rise. Other places like south america condemns sexual predators and would do steer justice if available. .. not to many spots in earth that still allows sexual crimes..
Occupy the Planet...
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Only societies I can think of that has high number of emotional type of crimes is in the african continent. Places like uganda where sexual crime is on a rise. Other places like south america condemns sexual predators and would do steer justice if available. .. not to many spots in earth that still allows sexual crimes..
Comparing tribes that doesn't use money and still lives in the stone age in 2011 is hard to compare vs up to date criminals. First off there is no money to taint the stone aged people but they till. Fight uneducatedly. Comparing the 2 is going backwards down the evolutionary ladder.. that's lke me trumping your 2011 stone aged civilaxtion with amish type of people who does not use money and is some what in the metal age. Amish people are a step ahead of these tribes people. Education and knowledge Plays a big part of evolution. Defeding this monetary system with uneducated stone aged peoples is taking 2 steps backwards...
What this all comes down is humans could and would do a lot better off without an enslaving money system. There are educated societies that does not use money. And has a minute amount of crime. Where as you have other moneyless peoples who aren't as educated and has lil more crime than let's say amnish peoples. And we all can agree that enviroment shapes ones life.
Well. There isn't any example in history to truelly compare to a modern resouced based society. So far we have went backwards trying to compare uneducated tribal people as being RBE type a civilzation. When in fact they are hunter gatherer type . We don't want to go backwards .. We should want to learn from the mistakes and not revolve in it. Don't think that in a RBE , People would end up into peasant slaves like they are now. RBE is the total opposite of all money systems. Its like now aka RL , but with hacks. Instead of crying over money and not getting shht done like it is today. In a RBE, We can actually get things done. Proseprity should not depend on the amount of money you throw at it..
The amish guy you met was prolly one of those half stepping types. Only amish on the weekdays type? The (somewhat educated )amish community does not rely on money to survive. These people vs your uneducated tribes people, and what do we have? A bunch of not so smart people who know how to survive without money. And who hasprolly never enjoyed the comfort of technology or even riden a roller coaster.
The amish guy you met was prolly one of those half stepping types. Only amish on the weekdays type? The (somewhat educated )amish community does not rely on money to survive. These people vs your uneducated tribes people, and what do we have? A bunch of not so smart people who know how to survive without money. And who hasprolly never enjoyed the comfort of technology or even riden a roller coaster.
Humans are "flawed" in that they have emotions, feelings, and perceptions. And since the ideology is that NO ONE is "perfect", we will ALWAYS find someway to express greed and jealousy. Its hard-wired inside of us. As stated, African tribes fight over land and resources...how is that any different than what America and China do???
Money isnt the problem, HUMANS are. And there is NOTHING we can do about it.
Money isnt the problem, HUMANS are. And there is NOTHING we can do about it.
it is interesting to me that you could in one sentence claim that perceptions/etc are "flawed", and then in the next statement utilize that same flawed faculty to form a view of your self and of the world and entrusting to it so much that you stay within the confounds of your self admitted flawed perceptions.
I think we can go deeper than "humans are the problem, hence we cannot do anything about it"
it is 945PM and i havent slept yet from yesterday so maybe tomorrow if im free i can try to elaborate by asking you some questions pertaining to your perception.
Because it seems that you have already jumped to assume a few things that include, what constitutes to being an actual problem, and what consitutes to being a human and that/what limitations automatically come with it.
I think we can go deeper than "humans are the problem, hence we cannot do anything about it"
it is 945PM and i havent slept yet from yesterday so maybe tomorrow if im free i can try to elaborate by asking you some questions pertaining to your perception.
Because it seems that you have already jumped to assume a few things that include, what constitutes to being an actual problem, and what consitutes to being a human and that/what limitations automatically come with it.
There is a reason "flawed" is quotations...becuase it is a subjective view of objectivity. Humans only see what they want, and our brains can only process what we believe to be true or valid. If you actually read the list of "mental disorders", one would realize that EVERY HUMAN on EARTH has one....and no, im not exaggerating. However, becuase this is true, it may be that we are always looking to explain everything, that we have made ourselves flawed.
We cant do anything, becuase in order for change to take place within an entire race of something, mental evolution has to take place. This is something that is near impossible. A collective movement of thought would need to somehow transpire over 7+ billion people and realize that there is more to life than power, greed, and jealousy. That is not going to happen. Altruism has been something that has missing as a whole throughout the last several centuries as a whole. And, as the population has rapidly grown, that motion has now become a lesson written in psychology books, and nothing more.
I dont like to use sweeping generalizations, but as a whole human race, we are greedy assholes...collectively. Of course there are some that are the exception to the rule, but thats always going to be the norm in anything. Even if a person is helpful, polite, altruistic, and minimal, they will STILL have their "primal moments"....a moment in time when survival of the fittest kicks in or a passing of "i need this". We can not reverse those moments. These are things that have been hard coded for 10,000 years. These are the things that we have used to survive and advance over that time. These are things that are biological. Some just express in more extreme ways than others at times, which brings full circle the "flawed" portion and mental disorders. Its become very cyclical as the population grows.
We cant do anything, becuase in order for change to take place within an entire race of something, mental evolution has to take place. This is something that is near impossible. A collective movement of thought would need to somehow transpire over 7+ billion people and realize that there is more to life than power, greed, and jealousy. That is not going to happen. Altruism has been something that has missing as a whole throughout the last several centuries as a whole. And, as the population has rapidly grown, that motion has now become a lesson written in psychology books, and nothing more.
I dont like to use sweeping generalizations, but as a whole human race, we are greedy assholes...collectively. Of course there are some that are the exception to the rule, but thats always going to be the norm in anything. Even if a person is helpful, polite, altruistic, and minimal, they will STILL have their "primal moments"....a moment in time when survival of the fittest kicks in or a passing of "i need this". We can not reverse those moments. These are things that have been hard coded for 10,000 years. These are the things that we have used to survive and advance over that time. These are things that are biological. Some just express in more extreme ways than others at times, which brings full circle the "flawed" portion and mental disorders. Its become very cyclical as the population grows.
I understand why "flawed" was in quotations. Im not asking you to not look at things subjectively as i am only 50% sure we can "step" out of being a human. But do you think with deep introspection one can consider the many variables involved in making a perspective subjective and then be able to conclude what actually might be very possible and indeed be actual?
this shit is too deep and i am trying my best to keep myself understood. If i failed to make a point clear in all of this lemme know and ill try to restate it differently.
I will elaborate on what i just said in reply to your next paragraph.
To start , you state that we cant do anything because we all need to evolve and that is near impossible. I think one of the most ensured things in life is that things change and evolve. The universe has been a constant flux of macro and micro-evolution. From the evolution of your personal physical life, mental and emotional self, to society and civilization as a whole(Technological evolution, the different ages we need less n less time to evolve from, eg. agricultural age, industrial age, information age, etc..)
by mental evolution, what exactly do you define as mental? I know some people merely define it as the thinking faculty, others as the feeling too, and others as the whole being.
Either way, whatever evolution needing to take place will really only need to take place in you and i as individuals.
If altruism is missing right now it is fine to state such a thing, but why not ask ourselves why is it missing? Why are human beings acting like a bunch of pieces of shit? maybe if we look into the 'why' of these things we can actually see if these variables actually constitute to being a human, or if the human person is capable of becoming more.
yes, judging by state of how things are and how things have been, we are acting like greedy assholes. But to state we "are" greedy assholes is skipping past a whole lot of questions that should be asked first.
Why are we acting like greedy assholes? What has made you act like a greedy asshole in the past? I know personally, whenever i had acted greedy it was an act of compensation for what i had believed i had lacked within. I had bullied some people as a kid because i had to act tough as i was too sensitive to be bullied myself. What had made me apathetic toward others at that point? What idea/belief/assumption did i have towards others ? Were those ideas my own or were they learned from the next ignorant man over? What about you? what made you a greedy asshole?
I dont believe i am an exception to the rule in that sense. I might be an exception in the sense that i have spent a lifetime inquiring into the deepest parts of myself and why i do/say/think things. But the conclusion i've reached is a 'collective' one.
Do i still have primal moments? yes i do, but they seem to always consist of a mistaken assumption i had been conditioned to assume, or a misunderstood perception on something i have been taught to see as 'myself', e.g. 'i am worthless because i dropped out of highschool", 'nobody will ever love me because i am not an athlete and i dont have a career'.
I am not sure if these things have been coded in us biologically, or merely re-instilled conditioning brought on by society and our parents.
i am not stating that many primitive behaviors were not encoded into us biologically to get us 'somewhere' from 'monkeys' or whatever, but what i am certain of is that at this stage of evolution, we have the ability to consciously evolve unbound by these biological tendencies.
Who has named something a mental disorder? and based on what norm? Shit is like a shoe manufacturer that only makes size 11s stating anything above or below 11 is abnormal. SEE: Has America become a nation of psychotics? You would certainly think so, based on the explosion in the use of antipsychotic medications. In 2008, with over $14 billion in sales, antipsychotics became the single top-selling therapeutic class of prescription drugs in the United States, surpassing drugs used to treat high cholesterol and acid reflux.
I am sure many legit disorders do exist. But not to the point where everybody is inflicted with them lol.
In my personal opinion, the main 'disorder' we are all attributed with is one of a mistaken identity, and i wouldn't even go as far to call it a disorder.
switch the species of fish up with humans and the quotation still rings true.
View attachment 106813
I apologize for such a long reply back, and you dont even have to respond to all of it. If you feel i misunderstood your points then you may simply restate them. I enjoy these discussions with you and i wouldnt want you or anybody else undermining your own potential to live a full, happy life.
this shit is too deep and i am trying my best to keep myself understood. If i failed to make a point clear in all of this lemme know and ill try to restate it differently.
I will elaborate on what i just said in reply to your next paragraph.
To start , you state that we cant do anything because we all need to evolve and that is near impossible. I think one of the most ensured things in life is that things change and evolve. The universe has been a constant flux of macro and micro-evolution. From the evolution of your personal physical life, mental and emotional self, to society and civilization as a whole(Technological evolution, the different ages we need less n less time to evolve from, eg. agricultural age, industrial age, information age, etc..)
by mental evolution, what exactly do you define as mental? I know some people merely define it as the thinking faculty, others as the feeling too, and others as the whole being.
Either way, whatever evolution needing to take place will really only need to take place in you and i as individuals.
If altruism is missing right now it is fine to state such a thing, but why not ask ourselves why is it missing? Why are human beings acting like a bunch of pieces of shit? maybe if we look into the 'why' of these things we can actually see if these variables actually constitute to being a human, or if the human person is capable of becoming more.
yes, judging by state of how things are and how things have been, we are acting like greedy assholes. But to state we "are" greedy assholes is skipping past a whole lot of questions that should be asked first.
Why are we acting like greedy assholes? What has made you act like a greedy asshole in the past? I know personally, whenever i had acted greedy it was an act of compensation for what i had believed i had lacked within. I had bullied some people as a kid because i had to act tough as i was too sensitive to be bullied myself. What had made me apathetic toward others at that point? What idea/belief/assumption did i have towards others ? Were those ideas my own or were they learned from the next ignorant man over? What about you? what made you a greedy asshole?
I dont believe i am an exception to the rule in that sense. I might be an exception in the sense that i have spent a lifetime inquiring into the deepest parts of myself and why i do/say/think things. But the conclusion i've reached is a 'collective' one.
Do i still have primal moments? yes i do, but they seem to always consist of a mistaken assumption i had been conditioned to assume, or a misunderstood perception on something i have been taught to see as 'myself', e.g. 'i am worthless because i dropped out of highschool", 'nobody will ever love me because i am not an athlete and i dont have a career'.
I am not sure if these things have been coded in us biologically, or merely re-instilled conditioning brought on by society and our parents.
i am not stating that many primitive behaviors were not encoded into us biologically to get us 'somewhere' from 'monkeys' or whatever, but what i am certain of is that at this stage of evolution, we have the ability to consciously evolve unbound by these biological tendencies.
Who has named something a mental disorder? and based on what norm? Shit is like a shoe manufacturer that only makes size 11s stating anything above or below 11 is abnormal. SEE: Has America become a nation of psychotics? You would certainly think so, based on the explosion in the use of antipsychotic medications. In 2008, with over $14 billion in sales, antipsychotics became the single top-selling therapeutic class of prescription drugs in the United States, surpassing drugs used to treat high cholesterol and acid reflux.
I am sure many legit disorders do exist. But not to the point where everybody is inflicted with them lol.
In my personal opinion, the main 'disorder' we are all attributed with is one of a mistaken identity, and i wouldn't even go as far to call it a disorder.
switch the species of fish up with humans and the quotation still rings true.
View attachment 106813
I apologize for such a long reply back, and you dont even have to respond to all of it. If you feel i misunderstood your points then you may simply restate them. I enjoy these discussions with you and i wouldnt want you or anybody else undermining your own potential to live a full, happy life.
I wont comb through all your points, but i believe that mentally, instinct wise, we have not changed in 10,000 years. Im talking about our primal thinking that leads us to be victorious in the life cycle. Women are STILL "gold diggers", and men are still "lying, cheating dogs". Jealousy, believe it or not, is actual a self-defense mechanism. It is more noticeable in women becuase it is built in for finding and KEEPING a strong mate. That strong mate will have the physical prowess to ward off all those who try and take his bitch and fuck with his off-spring. Our only REAL biological goal in life, is to reproduce and conquer...thats it. We want an army of US to control ALL...forever. However, because things evolve around us, those thoughts have to ADAPT to the ever changing material necessities. That isn't evolving, because technically, its still the same premise with different pieces, ie instead of food, its money, vehicles, and other things of "status" or that we perceive as a need of living.
Of course. I am taking the stance that we are born "evil". We are conditioned to NOT be so. We have a predisposition set in place, and its up to our parents to either harness this, or change it. The same can be said for particular breeds of dogs, such as pitbulls. They are naturally coded to be "aggressive" and gurading. However, if raised differently, there day-to-day demeanor can be very loving and playful. However, you piss them off, and that primal rage comes out.
Again, we are coded to be #1...to be on top, to conquer all...to be the most at everything. Top of the food chain wins, so to speak.
Of course, we all have different environmental settings, but we also have a general view of the world that is formed by cultural values...and we can always break away from those once we have learned enough to do so. Example, i am atheist. My father was a Lutheran pastor for my entire adolescent life. Back then, i went to church and believed what was told to me. Once i learned to understand and think for myself, my view changed. Hell, my FATHER's understanding of life and deities has changed...and he is 60!
I think one important thread to understand here is that the way we understand humans, the mind, and the human brain, are still evolving and adapting. People are so fascinated by space and the universe...when we can still NOT fully unlock the mysteries of the human brain and the idea of "mind". There has been several paradigm shifts in the world of psychology over the last 500 years...and i fully expect that to continue in the future. I think any good idea always has a better idea ahead of it. And i think the way you have perceived the world and the people in it will most likely change as you grow...as will mine. I think it NEEDS to be that way in order for there to be any advancements in the understanding and adaptation of the collective thought of the human race.
Of course. I am taking the stance that we are born "evil". We are conditioned to NOT be so. We have a predisposition set in place, and its up to our parents to either harness this, or change it. The same can be said for particular breeds of dogs, such as pitbulls. They are naturally coded to be "aggressive" and gurading. However, if raised differently, there day-to-day demeanor can be very loving and playful. However, you piss them off, and that primal rage comes out.
Again, we are coded to be #1...to be on top, to conquer all...to be the most at everything. Top of the food chain wins, so to speak.
Of course, we all have different environmental settings, but we also have a general view of the world that is formed by cultural values...and we can always break away from those once we have learned enough to do so. Example, i am atheist. My father was a Lutheran pastor for my entire adolescent life. Back then, i went to church and believed what was told to me. Once i learned to understand and think for myself, my view changed. Hell, my FATHER's understanding of life and deities has changed...and he is 60!
I think one important thread to understand here is that the way we understand humans, the mind, and the human brain, are still evolving and adapting. People are so fascinated by space and the universe...when we can still NOT fully unlock the mysteries of the human brain and the idea of "mind". There has been several paradigm shifts in the world of psychology over the last 500 years...and i fully expect that to continue in the future. I think any good idea always has a better idea ahead of it. And i think the way you have perceived the world and the people in it will most likely change as you grow...as will mine. I think it NEEDS to be that way in order for there to be any advancements in the understanding and adaptation of the collective thought of the human race.
and my stance is that we are conditioned to be and feel deprived. When these evil tendencies in humans are closely looked at, they are, as you said, merely a means of survival, but also with a sentience that allows us to understand why somebody acts 'evil'.
yes and we still have the capability to forgo all of these hard-coded behaviors. One can decide to simply just kill himself, or starve himself or cease procreating more humans.
So are we not capable of to co-exist peacefully in this symbiotic organism called life?
im not asking if that is what we are currently doing, i am only asking can we not get to that point?
i agree. It is like we are conditioned to look at everything in a certain way, especially our selves.
one day u exist naked to the world, next day you are provided a "free will" choice between two already "pre-approved" options, and you live your life stuck in that world view, seeming to only acknowledge things that support/contradict those 2 things you chose from, leaving you ignorant of everything else that exists.
black/white, liberal/conservative, pro this/anti that. To me it is these exact conditionings that directly and indirectly deprive us of the things that would have not made us act evil.
Most of the real conditioning is indirect and implied. And most of it is telling us "be afraid for your existence, fight for your life, it is US vs THEM", and hence we continue acting evil, while continuing to condition our own children with the same flawed perception of who we are and what we are capable of.
i fully agree with this
yes and we still have the capability to forgo all of these hard-coded behaviors. One can decide to simply just kill himself, or starve himself or cease procreating more humans.
So are we not capable of to co-exist peacefully in this symbiotic organism called life?
im not asking if that is what we are currently doing, i am only asking can we not get to that point?
i agree. It is like we are conditioned to look at everything in a certain way, especially our selves.
one day u exist naked to the world, next day you are provided a "free will" choice between two already "pre-approved" options, and you live your life stuck in that world view, seeming to only acknowledge things that support/contradict those 2 things you chose from, leaving you ignorant of everything else that exists.
black/white, liberal/conservative, pro this/anti that. To me it is these exact conditionings that directly and indirectly deprive us of the things that would have not made us act evil.
Most of the real conditioning is indirect and implied. And most of it is telling us "be afraid for your existence, fight for your life, it is US vs THEM", and hence we continue acting evil, while continuing to condition our own children with the same flawed perception of who we are and what we are capable of.
i fully agree with this
It's actually quite interesting to take the time to learn about the Anthropologists who studied the Yanomami and to learn about some of the misconceptions that were spread about them. Napoleon Chagnon described their way of life as a "culture of violence". A lot of his theories and the theories of other anthropologists who studied the Yanomami have been dismissed or re-worked. A lot of these dudes were hella corrupt as well. According to some Yanomami sources, Chagnon used to offer tribes rewards for fighting. Other anthropologists used to offer items (that they were flying out by the plane load) for sex with minors. There's a documentary about this called "Secrets of the Tribe" - It's available on demonoid if you have access to that.
A lot of Chagnon's grad students actually reported less violence then what Chagnon reported, and had different theories as to why it was happening. I would suggest reading Tierney. He goes as far as pointing out that Chagnon's theories benefited the miners who were encroaching on Yanomami land. They were able to successfully argue that the Yanomami's reserve should be reduced in half because they were too violent. He gives evidence that Chagnon falsified his data, staged his videos, etc. He also points out that the deadliest war ever recorded between the Yanomami was between those allied with the SUYAO and those allied with the FUNDAFACI and goes in on how it had to do with outside intrusions into the culture, rather then the Yanomami culture itself.
A lot of Chagnon's grad students actually reported less violence then what Chagnon reported, and had different theories as to why it was happening. I would suggest reading Tierney. He goes as far as pointing out that Chagnon's theories benefited the miners who were encroaching on Yanomami land. They were able to successfully argue that the Yanomami's reserve should be reduced in half because they were too violent. He gives evidence that Chagnon falsified his data, staged his videos, etc. He also points out that the deadliest war ever recorded between the Yanomami was between those allied with the SUYAO and those allied with the FUNDAFACI and goes in on how it had to do with outside intrusions into the culture, rather then the Yanomami culture itself.