My problem with Hinduism and why I think it is worse then Christianity.

[2-0-Sixx]

206-
I think we both agree that religion causes more problems than it solves.
Based on my studies, I conclude that religion is intended more to deal with issues of personal salvation (matters of the soul) and not with the large scale societal problems that you're talking about.
Considering the skepticism that you and I have about the value of religion, it's easy for us to blame religion for the problems of society when in reality there are several factors (such as colonialism, overpopulation, global economics, political corruption) that weigh in very heavily on the situation.
And like I mentioned earlier, what may seem like false hope to us is probably very REAL to a pious Hindu.

Yes, I agree that there are other major factors involved but my point is that religion creates a certain mindset amongst the believers to stay contempt with social hardships, thus making it impossible or nearly impossible for change to occur. It is because of religion that the masses in places like India lack the desire to fight for change.

 

[krishna]

Am I "Guilty" for believing in Christ?

how is that?

I dont feel guilty about much..... so just curous on how & why, overall, I should feel guilty?

What? I dont understand how you inferred that.

If you look at the sentences I wrote preceding what you quoted you should see that I was writing that the mass killings perpetrated by people who claim to follow the teachings of christ weren't only done by the catholic christians (as miggidy said), but actually 'christians' of every branch of the religion participated in violent oppression of other people.

So I don't see how that would cause to you accuse me of telling you to feel guilty.

 

[krishna]

Yes, I agree that there are other major factors involved but my point is that religion creates a certain mindset amongst the believers to stay contempt with social hardships, thus making it impossible or nearly impossible for change to occur. It is because of religion that the masses in places like India lack the desire to fight for change.

I dont think that the religion is telling them to be content with social hardships, hinduism like most religions encourages people to make the best of their lives.

I would even question if it's religion that's causing that mindset. I would imagine that even a non-religious population that lived in a severely impoverished and oppressive environment (such as the slums of India) would begin to believe that there is no possibility to change their surroundings. And once they've reached that conclusion, why should they not try to make the best of what life they have and at least attempt to be content?

In short, I don't think religion plays as big a part in the situation as you make it out to be.

 

[HERESY]

What? I dont understand how you inferred that.

If you look at the sentences I wrote preceding what you quoted you should see that I was writing that the mass killings perpetrated by people who claim to follow the teachings of christ weren't only done by the catholic christians (as miggidy said), but actually 'christians' of every branch of the religion participated in violent oppression of other people.

So I don't see how that would cause to you accuse me of telling you to feel guilty.

This cannot be validated by ANY historical records, documents etc etc etc. It's IMPOSSIBLE for "christians of every branch of the religion" to participate in violent opression of other people when:


1. The early "christians" were slaughtered and basically wiped out. How could they participate in violent oppression?


2. Christian sects that came later were wiped out. How could they participate in violent oppression?


3. The majority of christian sects actually stem from times of opression in which they were persecuted. How could they participate in violent oppression? As a victem?


Please show proof of christians of every branch of the religion participating in violent oppressions of other people. I would love to see your sources or theory crush what is FACT/HISTORY. From those who practice montanism to arianism to the essenes and sethians..........Show how these branches and spin offs participated.


Let's move on.

"No, it wasnt just the Catholic church. The crusades of the 12th and 13th centuries werent started by the catholic church."


What crusades against muslims took place in the 12th and 13th century? Are you talking about the crusades that involved King Louis and Prince Edward?


"And I totally agree that what they did went against the teaching of Christ. Christians from every branch of the faith are guilty of this."


Do you know every branch of the christian faith? I'm not saying you're right or wrong on this one. What I want to know is if you've studied "old" christian sects (heretical, gnostic or orthodox)? If not how can you logically say christians from every branch of the faith are guilty of this? Speaking of the faith that brings us to my next question. WHAT is "the faith"? Can you please explain the dogma/doctrine of christianity? An in depth response would be nice and please try not to use google to aid your search. Can you explain the difference between pagan christianity (which is basically orthodox christianity and catholicism) and "true" christianity? Btw list the origins if possible.




Thanks a million


HERESY

 

[miggidy]

LOL,

Heresy beat me to the punch.

 

[HERESY]

BTW I'm NOT a "christian".


:hgk:

 

[shep]

wow, a thread about religion that has not resulted in name calling and other personal attacks. i applaud you guys.

i personally don't know too much about hinduism, besides the main points. i have never read any hindu texts, but what i have learned in history, geography, and religion classes has brought up that india is still heavily involved in a caste system, whether or not they admit it.

 

[krishna]

Heresey,

I admit I'm not a historian by any means, and I'm far from a being a worthy scholar of the crusades. I just know that it wasnt only the catholics committing atrocities. But I guess I was out of line in saying that people from "every branch" of the religion partook. You're right it would have been absolutely impossible for some groups to be in position where they could oppress others.

This has sort of gotten off topic, I said what I wanted to say, which was that more violence has occurred on behalf of so-called christians than by hindus. As for your requests to show proof and sources, I can't do that, I don't possess that kind of knowledge like I said I'm no historian. I'm know you know a lot more about it than I do (and I assume that you know that you know more about it than I do too!) so I don't know why you want me to show you all these facts, unless you're just trying to make me look dumb. It's fine though, I don't mind being corrected. So like I said, I don't know everything about the crusades, but I wouldnt mind learning more about it. Maybe you can start another thread about it?

And I can't say that I know every branch of the christian faith. I don't think we can make a comprehensive list of all of them with certainty. So I made a generalization, since this topic Was about Hinduism being worse than Christianity, the generalization about Hindus is equally at fault. I couldnt list all the sects of Hinduism either, neither could anyone here, but I would estimate that there are even more groups within Hinduism than groups within Christianity. Yet 206 and others made no attempt to acknowledge this wide range of diversity within Hinduism. Not everyone believes in the caste system.

As for your request for me to explain the dogma/doctrine of Christianity in depth, I won't indulge in that here, if you want to make a thread about that too that sounds like a whole different discussion. Anyway it sounds like you're more interested in testing me than in discussing anything, and I probably don't have all the answers. I've never been to church, so everything I know about christianity comes from my interpretation of what I've read out of the Bible and other books.
Thanks for the input, although I kind of resent your comment about google, that was kind of absurd.

 

[1/2 On It]

It's illegal to discriminate based on caste in India... the government there encourages a more subtle approach the caste system.. one that does not include untouchables and allows marriages between different castes.

 

[n9newunsixx5150]

The current caste system in India is not the actual Varnashrama system prescribed in the Shastra. For one, the different castes are not determined by heredity. They are determined by qualification. There were ways to determine where a child was going by observing his interests. Based on those observations the children would be trained up appropriately.

And actually, Bhakti Yoga is prescribed for all people in this age. Jnana Yoga and Karma Yoga are intermediary to Bhakti. Bhakti is the summum bonum of all Yoga practices. Bhakti means devotional service to God. Karma Yoga constitutes that service and Jnana Yoga constitutes knowledge of God. Bhakti constitutes not only the service and the knowledge, but also love of God (Prema). Jnana Yoga was prescribed for the Brahmanas simply because they are trained up as the intellectual group due to their qualification. They are meant for leading the people into knowledge of God and ultimately into love of God. The Bhakti method is prescribed for the lower castes because it is the most direct method and it is independent of jnana. In other words, one does not need to be a great philosophical mind to engage in Bhakti. The basic knowledge of God and how to render service to God is there automatically with Bhakti Yoga.

Marriage would often occur between women of such a young age and a man of 16 to 18. Also, marriage was not intended as a license for unrestricted sense gratification. In ancient times, according to the Shastra, a married couple would only engage in sex for begetting with the prospect of properly raising a child. They wouldn't even sleep in the same room. This idea is far surpassing the conceptions of modern, indulged people. So it is natural that many of us form prejudices against a system which we simply cannot imagine being practical to our disease of material sense gratification.

 

[krishna]

So it is natural that many of us form prejudices against a system which we simply cannot imagine being practical to our disease of material sense gratification.

Well put.

 

[n9newunsixx5150]

Krishna,

I don't come on here nearly as often as I used to, but I have seen you on here before. I always wonder if that is your real name. Are you Indian? Or do you have some particular attraction to the name Krishna? I am just curious.

 

[krishna]

^^ It's my middle name, I'm half Indian