joel casamayor vs Michael katsidis.... who you picking?
- Thread starter heyzel
- Start date
Casamayor might be getting older but he's nothing to take lightly. Chico hit him with some pretty big shots and he just kept coming so a 5th round KO is hard for me to agree with even if that was a couple of years ago. But his last fight he took Cruz a little to lightly and sitting on the sidelines for over a year affected him. Casamayor is still the more skilled fighter. And Katsidis is just to easy to hit just watch his last 2 fights
One Win and Lightweight Is Joel's Casa Again
By Jake Donovan
"You don't want to dance on the man's grave until you're sure (he) is dead."
Credit to Reg E. Cathey, whose The Wire character, Norman Wilson belted out aforementioned quote in episode seven of this past season. Of course, it had nothing at all to do with boxing, but the quote can easily apply to the career of Joel Casamayor, as we know it today.
No sooner than the end of his painfully dull 12-round dance with Jose Armando Santa Cruz came about did the court of public appeal dismiss the outspoken Cuban as a shell of his former self. It mattered even less that he was somehow declared the winner of their bout last November; not only was the lightweight division officially up for grabs, but Casamayor (35-3-1, 21KO) was suddenly out of the running.
This is the same Joel Casamayor that many still refer to as, controversial decision notwithstanding, the reigning linear lightweight champion, a title that can only be won or lost in the ring, or voluntary vacancy due to retirement or moving up (or down) in weight.
Not good enough, said the boxing public, who will be damned to recognize an inactive 36-year old on the downside of his career as their lightweight champion. With such glaring flaws in a thought-to-be foolproof system, it was decided that the true lightweight king would be the man who collected the most belts, or at least notable scalps.
That would be Juan Diaz, who in consecutive fights forced titlists Acelino Freitas and Julio Diaz to quit on their stools after eight completed rounds. Both fights, as well as an optional defense late in the prior year, took place in the 13 months Casamayor spent in inactivity.
Then came March 8, 2008. Down goes Diaz, not on the canvas, but on the cards, where another 36-year old – Nate Campbell – buried him deep en route to a shockingly one-sided decision win in Mexico. With Campbell's win comes Casamayor's instant shot at redemption, a chance to once again reaffirm his place atop the lightweight division.
With Campbell's win, the lightweight crown is once again Joel Casamayor's to lose. A win over unbeaten contender Michael Katsidis this weekend (Saturday, HBO, 10:05PM ET/PT, Cabazon, Cal.), and the lightweight division is once again Joel's casa.
Not that a win over Katsidis (23-0, 20KO), or really any other top lightweight at this stage of his career, is guaranteed for Casamayor. What can be assured is that boos will not echo throughout the Morongo Casino Resort and Spa, as was the case last November or in more than a few of Casamayor's recent bouts.
The only crowd noises to be heard during your average Katsidis fight are raucous cheers. The face-first brawling Australian simply carries it like that, as evidenced in his pair of 2007 Fight of the Year candidates against Graham Earl and Czar Amonsot.
The fight with Earl, Katsidis' first outside of his native Australia, was an underground treasure, with most catching the five round war by way of YouTube.com upload. Katsidis emerged victorious after Earl, dropped three times and badly cut in the fourth, was deemed unfit to continue prior to the start of the sixth round. The win came with minor damage; Katsidis endured the first official knockdown – or at least mandatory eight-count – of his own, in the second round after nearly having Earl out of there.
It was his subsequent win over Amonsot that came with far greater repercussions. Katsidis made the most of his stateside debut, appearing on the televised undercard of a July pay-per-view event headlined by Bernard Hopkins' points win over Winky Wright. Katsidis' victory over Amonsot also went the distance, but that is where similarities between the two bouts end.
Whereas Hopkins-Wright was a grueling, grind-'em out affair, Katsidis-Amonsot was a blood-soaked thrill ride. Defense was strictly a rumor, with Amonsot twice on the canvas while Katsidis was on the verge of losing via cuts stoppage as early as round two. The Aussie's face held together long enough to cross the finish line and secure the well-deserved win, but suffered enough damage to place him on the injured list for the remainder of 2007.
As 2007 was threatening to become 2008, a number of rumors regarding potential lightweight bouts began to swirl. Many of them mentioned Casamayor and Katsidis, but none had them fighting one another. It was a pair of Diaz' – David and Juan – instead connecting the two, odd as the two Diaz' were angling for a fight against one another in hopes of unifying all of the major lightweight alphabet titles.
Juan was penciled in for a February 9 date against Katsidis in what many predicted would become a can't miss Fight of the Year entrant. It did miss, in fact it struck out, though through no fault of either fighter, but instead promoter Don King, determined to keep his stranglehold on Diaz by forcing him to face mandatory challenger Nate Campbell (also co-promoted by King) before granting him his desired release.
Casamayor, after escaping New York City with a split decision against Santa Cruz, finally warmed up to the idea of a showdown with David Diaz. It was perhaps a year too late, with Diaz demanding such a fight the moment Casamayor went up 2-1 on Corrales, and through the first part of 2007 before instead landing a fight with Erik Morales and an upgrade in WBC status from interim to official champion.
A bit of tomfoolery by the Mexican-based sanctioning body resulted in Casamayor initially losing status as champion. He was eventually granted interim status, in effect swapping spots with Diaz, who had now set his sights on a possible fight with Manny Pacquiao.
The news didn't disappoint Casamayor so much as the thought of another forced period of inactivity, thus further squandering any lingering momentum in his cause to remain recognize as lightweight king. Then came the opportunity to fight Katsidis, who like Casamayor was primed for any fight.
At the time, it was thought that the winner of this weekend's bout would have to go through Juan Diaz in order to gain universal recognition as the world's best lightweight. Nate Campbell violently reshuffled that deck, courtesy of his turn-back-the-clock performance against Diaz two weekends ago.
But can you truly argue that Campbell is now the world's best lightweight? After all, Casamayor owns scoreboard on the Galaxxy Warrior, scoring a close and somewhat controversial decision (which seem to be synonymous with Joel's career) in January 2003.
Sure, that was a long time ago, but Campbell hasn't exactly set the lightweight division afire, in fact going 5-4-1 over his next ten bouts. One win came in an October 2005 upset against previously unbeaten Almazbek Raiymkulov, who four months prior was held to a split decision draw against Casamayor. But his four losses – against Robbie Peden (twice), Francisco Lorenzo and Isaac Hlatswayo – are hardly as forgivable as Casamayor's close calls against Corrales and Castillo in separate 2004 bouts.
The worst-case scenario – or best, depending on your viewpoint – is that Casamayor wins this weekend, and a rematch with Campbell once and for all determines lightweight supremacy. The same formula would hold true should Katsidis prove the odds makers correct this weekend (presently more than a 2-1 favorite), only take away the rematch angle since he and Campbell have yet to meet.
The good news is that Campbell is receptive to a fight against either one, in fact up for any fight. Not even the addition of alphabet hardware will ever change Nate's desire to wreak havoc on any active lightweight; cherry pickers need not apply in his world.
But just as it can be argued that Casamayor's inactivity and less than stellar showing in his most recent fight left room for debate, so too can it be said that Campbell needs at least one more notable win to cement any claim as the baddest lightweight on the planet.
That Casamayor is still a factor in the lightweight equation proves how very wrong most of us were. Once dismissed as a dead man walking, Joel is merely one win away from having order restored in this lightweight casa.
PLENTY MORE LIGHTWEIGHT ACTION TO COME
This time last year, it was all about the Diaz' – David, Juan and Julio all reigning as lightweight titlists. Now, it's just about the endless possibilities in the suddenly robust lightweight division.
Regardless of what happens this weekend, boxing fans can still look forward to the tentatively scheduled June 28 clash between David Diaz and Manny Pacquiao. Both emerged victorious this past weekend, Diaz clearly outworking Ramon Montano in a strangely scored decision win, while Pacquiao received much greater fanfare with his back-and-forth instant classic in barely outlasting familiar foe Juan Manuel Marquez.
The June 28 bout is contingent upon the amount of time it will take for Pacquiao's facial cuts and swelling to heal, but otherwise appears to be a go. One thing that could stand in the way is an enormous sack of cash Golden Boy Promotions already seems willing to offer in order to secure a third fight with Marquez, whom they promote.
Should Pacquiao-Marquez III come about, Diaz could always lobby for a fight with Nate Campbell, who as mentioned earlier, already extended an open invitation to any worthwhile challenger in or near the lightweight division.
Let's also not rule out Juan Diaz, who at 24 is still young and tough enough to overcome the first loss of his career. Even with a loss and manager Willie Savannah's reputation as a tough-as-nails negotiator, it shouldn't be difficult for the student-athlete to find a new home, promoter-wise.
With all of the lightweights willing to mix and match in order to remain active, this division is rapidly challenging all others as the deepest and most relevant in the sport today.
… BUT PLENTY OF ACTION THIS WEEKEND
All praise be to Golden Boy Promotions and HBO, both of whom have put together one hell of a tripleheader this weekend. In addition to Casamayor-Katsidis, boxing fans will also be treated to one more live bout and one tape-delayed.
The remaining live action is a super middleweight elimination bout between Librado Andrade and Robert Steiglitz, with the winner earning the right to challenge current titlist Lucian Bute.
Andrade is no stranger to HBO audiences, having previously fought on the now-defunct HBO Latino Boxeo de Oro series before surfacing last year on Boxing After Dark. The prime-time exposure came with its fair share of consequences, with Andrade suffering a one-sided loss to then unbeaten belt holder Mikkel Kessler. The free-swinging Mexican was valiant in defeat, and rewarded with back-to-back PPV undercard showcase slots, the most recent being an off-the-canvas knockout win of Yusef Mack last October.
The story behind Steiglitz is a far less familiar tale, unless you live in Germany, where all but two of the transplanted Russian's bouts have taken place. Those who ordered last spring's Sultan Ibragimov-Shannon Briggs PPV show will recall seeing Steiglitz in preliminary action, where he outlasted and outpointed trialhorse Marlon Hayes.
The best and worst moments of his career came against Alejandro Berrio. Exactly fifteen months after scoring an 11th round knockout in a career best win, Steiglitz appeared early to be on his way to a second straight win before being introduced to the canvas – twice – before suffering a third round knockout loss, the only defeat of his career against 31 wins.
Both fighters enter this weekend's fight riding modest two-fight win streaks following their respective losses.
Saturday's telecast begins with an exclusive replay of last weekend's aforementioned instant classic between Pacquiao and Marquez. Put the three together, and you have what is far and away the best-televised card of the year, to date.
LET THEM FIGHT! (FEMALE AMATEURS, THAT IS)
This being an Olympic year, renewed interest has surfaced regarding the possibility of women's boxing being included in the Summer Games. It remains an uphill battle, with the pro version still regarded as a side-show, while the talent pool in the non-pay ranks, while ever growing, remains this in comparison.
But that hasn't prevented the sport's advocates from remaining persistent in their cause. One such soldier is Nashville-based boxing trainer Christy Halbert, who also serves on the coaching staff for Team USA during international events. Halbert opened a website, fully paid for by the Boxing Resource Center, a non-profit organization for which she serves as President and CEO.
A 2005 ruling has already KO'd the possibility of women's boxing becoming an official event in this year's games, to be held in Beijing, China. Hope is being held out for a 2009 meeting, deciding whether or not to include the sport in the 2012 Games in London.
For
By Jake Donovan
"You don't want to dance on the man's grave until you're sure (he) is dead."
Credit to Reg E. Cathey, whose The Wire character, Norman Wilson belted out aforementioned quote in episode seven of this past season. Of course, it had nothing at all to do with boxing, but the quote can easily apply to the career of Joel Casamayor, as we know it today.
No sooner than the end of his painfully dull 12-round dance with Jose Armando Santa Cruz came about did the court of public appeal dismiss the outspoken Cuban as a shell of his former self. It mattered even less that he was somehow declared the winner of their bout last November; not only was the lightweight division officially up for grabs, but Casamayor (35-3-1, 21KO) was suddenly out of the running.
This is the same Joel Casamayor that many still refer to as, controversial decision notwithstanding, the reigning linear lightweight champion, a title that can only be won or lost in the ring, or voluntary vacancy due to retirement or moving up (or down) in weight.
Not good enough, said the boxing public, who will be damned to recognize an inactive 36-year old on the downside of his career as their lightweight champion. With such glaring flaws in a thought-to-be foolproof system, it was decided that the true lightweight king would be the man who collected the most belts, or at least notable scalps.
That would be Juan Diaz, who in consecutive fights forced titlists Acelino Freitas and Julio Diaz to quit on their stools after eight completed rounds. Both fights, as well as an optional defense late in the prior year, took place in the 13 months Casamayor spent in inactivity.
Then came March 8, 2008. Down goes Diaz, not on the canvas, but on the cards, where another 36-year old – Nate Campbell – buried him deep en route to a shockingly one-sided decision win in Mexico. With Campbell's win comes Casamayor's instant shot at redemption, a chance to once again reaffirm his place atop the lightweight division.
With Campbell's win, the lightweight crown is once again Joel Casamayor's to lose. A win over unbeaten contender Michael Katsidis this weekend (Saturday, HBO, 10:05PM ET/PT, Cabazon, Cal.), and the lightweight division is once again Joel's casa.
Not that a win over Katsidis (23-0, 20KO), or really any other top lightweight at this stage of his career, is guaranteed for Casamayor. What can be assured is that boos will not echo throughout the Morongo Casino Resort and Spa, as was the case last November or in more than a few of Casamayor's recent bouts.
The only crowd noises to be heard during your average Katsidis fight are raucous cheers. The face-first brawling Australian simply carries it like that, as evidenced in his pair of 2007 Fight of the Year candidates against Graham Earl and Czar Amonsot.
The fight with Earl, Katsidis' first outside of his native Australia, was an underground treasure, with most catching the five round war by way of YouTube.com upload. Katsidis emerged victorious after Earl, dropped three times and badly cut in the fourth, was deemed unfit to continue prior to the start of the sixth round. The win came with minor damage; Katsidis endured the first official knockdown – or at least mandatory eight-count – of his own, in the second round after nearly having Earl out of there.
It was his subsequent win over Amonsot that came with far greater repercussions. Katsidis made the most of his stateside debut, appearing on the televised undercard of a July pay-per-view event headlined by Bernard Hopkins' points win over Winky Wright. Katsidis' victory over Amonsot also went the distance, but that is where similarities between the two bouts end.
Whereas Hopkins-Wright was a grueling, grind-'em out affair, Katsidis-Amonsot was a blood-soaked thrill ride. Defense was strictly a rumor, with Amonsot twice on the canvas while Katsidis was on the verge of losing via cuts stoppage as early as round two. The Aussie's face held together long enough to cross the finish line and secure the well-deserved win, but suffered enough damage to place him on the injured list for the remainder of 2007.
As 2007 was threatening to become 2008, a number of rumors regarding potential lightweight bouts began to swirl. Many of them mentioned Casamayor and Katsidis, but none had them fighting one another. It was a pair of Diaz' – David and Juan – instead connecting the two, odd as the two Diaz' were angling for a fight against one another in hopes of unifying all of the major lightweight alphabet titles.
Juan was penciled in for a February 9 date against Katsidis in what many predicted would become a can't miss Fight of the Year entrant. It did miss, in fact it struck out, though through no fault of either fighter, but instead promoter Don King, determined to keep his stranglehold on Diaz by forcing him to face mandatory challenger Nate Campbell (also co-promoted by King) before granting him his desired release.
Casamayor, after escaping New York City with a split decision against Santa Cruz, finally warmed up to the idea of a showdown with David Diaz. It was perhaps a year too late, with Diaz demanding such a fight the moment Casamayor went up 2-1 on Corrales, and through the first part of 2007 before instead landing a fight with Erik Morales and an upgrade in WBC status from interim to official champion.
A bit of tomfoolery by the Mexican-based sanctioning body resulted in Casamayor initially losing status as champion. He was eventually granted interim status, in effect swapping spots with Diaz, who had now set his sights on a possible fight with Manny Pacquiao.
The news didn't disappoint Casamayor so much as the thought of another forced period of inactivity, thus further squandering any lingering momentum in his cause to remain recognize as lightweight king. Then came the opportunity to fight Katsidis, who like Casamayor was primed for any fight.
At the time, it was thought that the winner of this weekend's bout would have to go through Juan Diaz in order to gain universal recognition as the world's best lightweight. Nate Campbell violently reshuffled that deck, courtesy of his turn-back-the-clock performance against Diaz two weekends ago.
But can you truly argue that Campbell is now the world's best lightweight? After all, Casamayor owns scoreboard on the Galaxxy Warrior, scoring a close and somewhat controversial decision (which seem to be synonymous with Joel's career) in January 2003.
Sure, that was a long time ago, but Campbell hasn't exactly set the lightweight division afire, in fact going 5-4-1 over his next ten bouts. One win came in an October 2005 upset against previously unbeaten Almazbek Raiymkulov, who four months prior was held to a split decision draw against Casamayor. But his four losses – against Robbie Peden (twice), Francisco Lorenzo and Isaac Hlatswayo – are hardly as forgivable as Casamayor's close calls against Corrales and Castillo in separate 2004 bouts.
The worst-case scenario – or best, depending on your viewpoint – is that Casamayor wins this weekend, and a rematch with Campbell once and for all determines lightweight supremacy. The same formula would hold true should Katsidis prove the odds makers correct this weekend (presently more than a 2-1 favorite), only take away the rematch angle since he and Campbell have yet to meet.
The good news is that Campbell is receptive to a fight against either one, in fact up for any fight. Not even the addition of alphabet hardware will ever change Nate's desire to wreak havoc on any active lightweight; cherry pickers need not apply in his world.
But just as it can be argued that Casamayor's inactivity and less than stellar showing in his most recent fight left room for debate, so too can it be said that Campbell needs at least one more notable win to cement any claim as the baddest lightweight on the planet.
That Casamayor is still a factor in the lightweight equation proves how very wrong most of us were. Once dismissed as a dead man walking, Joel is merely one win away from having order restored in this lightweight casa.
PLENTY MORE LIGHTWEIGHT ACTION TO COME
This time last year, it was all about the Diaz' – David, Juan and Julio all reigning as lightweight titlists. Now, it's just about the endless possibilities in the suddenly robust lightweight division.
Regardless of what happens this weekend, boxing fans can still look forward to the tentatively scheduled June 28 clash between David Diaz and Manny Pacquiao. Both emerged victorious this past weekend, Diaz clearly outworking Ramon Montano in a strangely scored decision win, while Pacquiao received much greater fanfare with his back-and-forth instant classic in barely outlasting familiar foe Juan Manuel Marquez.
The June 28 bout is contingent upon the amount of time it will take for Pacquiao's facial cuts and swelling to heal, but otherwise appears to be a go. One thing that could stand in the way is an enormous sack of cash Golden Boy Promotions already seems willing to offer in order to secure a third fight with Marquez, whom they promote.
Should Pacquiao-Marquez III come about, Diaz could always lobby for a fight with Nate Campbell, who as mentioned earlier, already extended an open invitation to any worthwhile challenger in or near the lightweight division.
Let's also not rule out Juan Diaz, who at 24 is still young and tough enough to overcome the first loss of his career. Even with a loss and manager Willie Savannah's reputation as a tough-as-nails negotiator, it shouldn't be difficult for the student-athlete to find a new home, promoter-wise.
With all of the lightweights willing to mix and match in order to remain active, this division is rapidly challenging all others as the deepest and most relevant in the sport today.
… BUT PLENTY OF ACTION THIS WEEKEND
All praise be to Golden Boy Promotions and HBO, both of whom have put together one hell of a tripleheader this weekend. In addition to Casamayor-Katsidis, boxing fans will also be treated to one more live bout and one tape-delayed.
The remaining live action is a super middleweight elimination bout between Librado Andrade and Robert Steiglitz, with the winner earning the right to challenge current titlist Lucian Bute.
Andrade is no stranger to HBO audiences, having previously fought on the now-defunct HBO Latino Boxeo de Oro series before surfacing last year on Boxing After Dark. The prime-time exposure came with its fair share of consequences, with Andrade suffering a one-sided loss to then unbeaten belt holder Mikkel Kessler. The free-swinging Mexican was valiant in defeat, and rewarded with back-to-back PPV undercard showcase slots, the most recent being an off-the-canvas knockout win of Yusef Mack last October.
The story behind Steiglitz is a far less familiar tale, unless you live in Germany, where all but two of the transplanted Russian's bouts have taken place. Those who ordered last spring's Sultan Ibragimov-Shannon Briggs PPV show will recall seeing Steiglitz in preliminary action, where he outlasted and outpointed trialhorse Marlon Hayes.
The best and worst moments of his career came against Alejandro Berrio. Exactly fifteen months after scoring an 11th round knockout in a career best win, Steiglitz appeared early to be on his way to a second straight win before being introduced to the canvas – twice – before suffering a third round knockout loss, the only defeat of his career against 31 wins.
Both fighters enter this weekend's fight riding modest two-fight win streaks following their respective losses.
Saturday's telecast begins with an exclusive replay of last weekend's aforementioned instant classic between Pacquiao and Marquez. Put the three together, and you have what is far and away the best-televised card of the year, to date.
LET THEM FIGHT! (FEMALE AMATEURS, THAT IS)
This being an Olympic year, renewed interest has surfaced regarding the possibility of women's boxing being included in the Summer Games. It remains an uphill battle, with the pro version still regarded as a side-show, while the talent pool in the non-pay ranks, while ever growing, remains this in comparison.
But that hasn't prevented the sport's advocates from remaining persistent in their cause. One such soldier is Nashville-based boxing trainer Christy Halbert, who also serves on the coaching staff for Team USA during international events. Halbert opened a website, fully paid for by the Boxing Resource Center, a non-profit organization for which she serves as President and CEO.
A 2005 ruling has already KO'd the possibility of women's boxing becoming an official event in this year's games, to be held in Beijing, China. Hope is being held out for a 2009 meeting, deciding whether or not to include the sport in the 2012 Games in London.
For
Naw, he has a decent jaw. Its just that when he lunges in, he leads with his face...never throws a jab to set up...but he's young...and he'll definitely improve.
Besides the first 3 rounds, I wasn't impressed by Cassamayor's performance. He looked like he gassed by the 4th round...just landed a good clean shot...and got a questionable stoppage IMO.
Besides the first 3 rounds, I wasn't impressed by Cassamayor's performance. He looked like he gassed by the 4th round...just landed a good clean shot...and got a questionable stoppage IMO.