Jewish race/ Judaism
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Though the land in and around Israel belonged to the Roman Empire, there was a distinct difference between the people's throughout the Roman Empire much like there is in the United States. The Jews (though that has been called into question in this thread, not sure if joking) were a distinct people group, and were among the first followers of Christ for the obvious reason that Jesus carried out his entire ministry there. All of the disciples were Jewish by heritage and faith before Jesus started His ministry.
By the time of the writing of the book of Romans in the Bible, the church at Rome was already a prominent church of Christians, roughly 20 years after the crucifixion of Christ. In the event you were alluding to Christianity becoming the official religion of Rome sometime later, that still doesn't mean that Christians were the one's who crucified Christ. The Roman government, and the high priest of Israel were the one's who technically ordered His crucifixion. Neither of whom were ever shown to be Christian in any sense of the word.
By the time of the writing of the book of Romans in the Bible, the church at Rome was already a prominent church of Christians, roughly 20 years after the crucifixion of Christ. In the event you were alluding to Christianity becoming the official religion of Rome sometime later, that still doesn't mean that Christians were the one's who crucified Christ. The Roman government, and the high priest of Israel were the one's who technically ordered His crucifixion. Neither of whom were ever shown to be Christian in any sense of the word.
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Well... I did say the romans were the ancestors of Christians.
Care to explain how this high priest of Israel ordered the crucifixion of Christ? If I’m not mistaken the romans were in charge and were oppressing the jews. How is this high priest going to give commands?
It’s all 2000 year old Christian propaganda to cover op the fact (the Roman ancestors of) Christians tortured and murdered their own Jewish god. The bible was written like a 100 years after the death of Christ. I can imagine facts got lost......As usual with white man’s history writing...
Care to explain how this high priest of Israel ordered the crucifixion of Christ? If I’m not mistaken the romans were in charge and were oppressing the jews. How is this high priest going to give commands?
It’s all 2000 year old Christian propaganda to cover op the fact (the Roman ancestors of) Christians tortured and murdered their own Jewish god. The bible was written like a 100 years after the death of Christ. I can imagine facts got lost......As usual with white man’s history writing...
The high priest (Caiphas) could not legallyorder Christ's crucifixion. They could punish Jesus to some extent however, which they did. They demanded a more severe punishment than what they were allowed to carry out, based on what they considered to be blasphemy. Under their own Law, they would have killed him. The Bible says they picked up rocks to stone Jesus several times, but He eluded them.
There are other ancient writings out there that talk about early Christians and their devotion "to a man named Jesus" who had been crucified outside the Bible as well. The Old Testament was written in it's entirety before the birth of Christ. The New Testament was written over the next 60-70 years at the most. As I mentioned earlier, the book of Romans was written within 20 or so years of the death and (believed) resurrection of Christ.
In addition, history (recorded outside of the Biblical account) shows that nearly every single one of Jesus's disciples were martyred and died a gruesome death for their faith. Many of which, were given the chance to live if they would denounce their faith in Christ. Despite doubting Him many times before His crucifixion, they were far more bold with their faith and were willing to die for it. I understand where the attitude about the Bible comes from and people not believing it, but history would show that they clearly believed it.
There are other ancient writings out there that talk about early Christians and their devotion "to a man named Jesus" who had been crucified outside the Bible as well. The Old Testament was written in it's entirety before the birth of Christ. The New Testament was written over the next 60-70 years at the most. As I mentioned earlier, the book of Romans was written within 20 or so years of the death and (believed) resurrection of Christ.
In addition, history (recorded outside of the Biblical account) shows that nearly every single one of Jesus's disciples were martyred and died a gruesome death for their faith. Many of which, were given the chance to live if they would denounce their faith in Christ. Despite doubting Him many times before His crucifixion, they were far more bold with their faith and were willing to die for it. I understand where the attitude about the Bible comes from and people not believing it, but history would show that they clearly believed it.
The high priest is more then one person now?
I’m not religious. I respect you for being religious (if you are). Every person can chose their own way of living as far as I’m concerned. I only believe shit if it’s scientifically proven. I wasn’t aware the existence of Jesus Christ is a historical fact. Where Can I find the proof outside of the Bible?
If all that shit really happened, I feel it’s a shame all those Jews died by the hands of the Roman oppressors. But then again: that’s the real history of the jews.... being killed by white men.
Anywayz, I appreciate the answers coach. Real entertaining!
I’m not religious. I respect you for being religious (if you are). Every person can chose their own way of living as far as I’m concerned. I only believe shit if it’s scientifically proven. I wasn’t aware the existence of Jesus Christ is a historical fact. Where Can I find the proof outside of the Bible?
If all that shit really happened, I feel it’s a shame all those Jews died by the hands of the Roman oppressors. But then again: that’s the real history of the jews.... being killed by white men.
Anywayz, I appreciate the answers coach. Real entertaining!
The high priest was a title held by one person. But the religious leadership as a whole could issue punishments to some degree or another. For things beyond a certain point, it did require the Roman government to issue those punishments. If the person accused of a crime was a Roman citizen, they could essentially appeal their case and ask to appear before Roman government in an effort to get a more fair of a trial than simply sitting before the Jewish leadership, as the Apostle Paul did.
Anyways, I won't act like there is a lengthy written history of Jesus (outside of the Bible), or artifacts and things of that nature that would directly point to Him, but they are out there. In terms of sources, this isn't exactly the most scholarly site but I read this awhile back and remember this guy trying to remain neutral in his approach, which you may appreciate... What is the historical evidence that Jesus Christ lived and died? | World news | The Guardian
That can start your research in terms of some of the names of the people who wrote about Jesus. There is more out there, but as with anything, there's a ton of bad information too.
Anyways, I won't act like there is a lengthy written history of Jesus (outside of the Bible), or artifacts and things of that nature that would directly point to Him, but they are out there. In terms of sources, this isn't exactly the most scholarly site but I read this awhile back and remember this guy trying to remain neutral in his approach, which you may appreciate... What is the historical evidence that Jesus Christ lived and died? | World news | The Guardian
That can start your research in terms of some of the names of the people who wrote about Jesus. There is more out there, but as with anything, there's a ton of bad information too.
Lol @ the first non-christian text about Jesus (written by Flavius Josephus) being corrupted by christians. Christian propaganda man.....
All things considered. If I was the police and traveled back in time to capture the murderer of Jesus Christ, fingerprints on hammer, nails and cross as well as witness accounts would have me solve the case real fast. The Romans did it with the hammer and nails. Now I go eat a donut.
All things considered. If I was the police and traveled back in time to capture the murderer of Jesus Christ, fingerprints on hammer, nails and cross as well as witness accounts would have me solve the case real fast. The Romans did it with the hammer and nails. Now I go eat a donut.
He said it was accused of being corrupted to show Jesus in a more positive light. It didn't say it was necessarily changed from something like "no one believes Jesus was a real person" to "Jesus is Lord and Savior."
The same accusations were said about books in the Old Testament, like Isaiah, which give an extremely detailed account about the crucifixion of Jesus. People said there was no way the OT books could have been written before Christ. That was until the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, which have been dated with those same texts and archaeologists dated many of those scrolls up to 200 years before the birth of Christ.
But I'm not here to convince anyone. People will reach their own conclusions. Even the Bible says Jesus taught in parables so certain people wouldn't understand Him, and people saw Him face to face and didn't believe in Him. That's not gonna change 2000 years later.
The same accusations were said about books in the Old Testament, like Isaiah, which give an extremely detailed account about the crucifixion of Jesus. People said there was no way the OT books could have been written before Christ. That was until the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, which have been dated with those same texts and archaeologists dated many of those scrolls up to 200 years before the birth of Christ.
But I'm not here to convince anyone. People will reach their own conclusions. Even the Bible says Jesus taught in parables so certain people wouldn't understand Him, and people saw Him face to face and didn't believe in Him. That's not gonna change 2000 years later.
The word Christian originated as a derogatory (I'm sure someone will make a joke of this) term towards followers of Christ. The word means follower of Christ, but in it's derogatory form it meant more along the lines of "little Christ."
Maybe as an organized system of beliefs and doctrines, you could argue that Romans created the system of Christianity. But in all actuality, Jesus created Christianity by choosing His disciples and showing them how to live, much in the same way that rabbi's had their disciples who followed them for a couple of years before becoming rabbi's themselves. They were followers of Christ and followed His teachings. They were then commanded to make more disciples as it says in the Great Commission. Romans didn't create any of that.
Maybe as an organized system of beliefs and doctrines, you could argue that Romans created the system of Christianity. But in all actuality, Jesus created Christianity by choosing His disciples and showing them how to live, much in the same way that rabbi's had their disciples who followed them for a couple of years before becoming rabbi's themselves. They were followers of Christ and followed His teachings. They were then commanded to make more disciples as it says in the Great Commission. Romans didn't create any of that.