I've finally Decided...

[Sick Wid It]

who the fuck are you to say you chargen $500 a track, take it or leave it. You aint Dr. Dre dogg, earn some fuckin stripes. I see too many producers out here tryin charge cats hundreds of bones for a track and they ain't nobodys.

So you think a producers worth depends on his name more then his ability to create fire beats. If that's the case then most of these rappers should be giving their verses away for free and be happy to do it.

I just think that there are some REAL ass, hungry artists out there like myself and some others that are looken to put out albums but everyone wants to rape you before you get your feet planted. Mother fuckers need to put in work and earn some credentials before you chargen $500 a beat, thats real.

Producers can say the exact same thing about rappers. Only difference is rappers come a dime for ten dozen and hot producers are rare.

By the way, I don't give a fuck how hungry you are, it doesn't mean you are entitled to ANYTHING. And for that matter, if you're so hungry then you wouldn't be whining over a few hundred dollars.

And work wit people who might not have all the bread (they better come wit somethen) but you see potential in them as an artist so you know you gon get paid.

There are tons of cats with "potential" and it doesn't prove anything. It doesn't mean you're ever gonna get paid or they will ever go anywhere.

The way you're talkin' it's like you're saying producers need to do charity work for wanna-be rappers. That's crazy-talk. You don't think you can build a career off hand-outs do you?

Rappers two biggest downfalls are...thinking they are a hot commodity and thinking producers are worth less then they are.

 

[3VID3NC3]

Damn I love it when Sick Wid It schools these folx

 

[E.Q.]

Good shit Sick Wid It !!! We don't owe rappers anything,and if a producer builds a relationship with a so-called artist based on I.O.U.'s,freebies,and "I'm gonna take care of you when I blow up" then the producer is always gonna fall short.Reallistically if any of you rappers do blow up, how many are really gonna say"OK I gotta go back and break off all the people that got me here ?" Probably not that many would do that.I've been through the whole "Just keep producin' tracks and one day we'll all get payed" routine and it don't work.All that happens is people hear your tight trax and then more freeloaders show up.Or the rapper comes out of it with an album that gets him more contacts and gets him to the next level.
This message is to all you rappersRODUCING(real producing)IS A JOB !!!!! When you go into the lab and spend 2 hrs spittin your verses and then cut out and go on with your day,who's left at the studio to spend even more time on your shit editing and mixing down ?Who already spent time making the beat in the first place ?and Who spent their hard earned bread on all the equipment ?That's right-The no name-no reputation producer that you think doesn't deserve to charge so much.All you wannabes better stop with all this noise and start being fair-get jobs -and pay for what you want.....

 

[BIG J]

[B We don't owe rappers anything,and if
This message is to all you rappersRODUCING(real producing)IS A JOB !!!!! When you go into the lab and spend 2 hrs spittin your verses and then cut out and go on with your day,who's left at the studio to spend even more time on your shit editing and mixing down ?Who already spent time making the beat in the first place ?and Who spent their hard earned bread on all the equipment ?That's right-The no name-no reputation producer that you think doesn't deserve to charge so much.All you wannabes better stop with all this noise and start being fair-get jobs -and pay for what you want..... [/B]

Real Chop, It's not the name that's important, it's the quailty that counts. No one seems to get that, and For some reason they all seem to think that Equipment just appears out of nowhere.

 

[Kp]

I'm not about to quote all of your guys' shit and respond to it so peep:

Damn all the opinions I figured I'd get I got. Did you see what I first said? I agree with you---you should be gettin paid. Kev Ski--My phone number is 287-4982 in your area code. I live 30 mins from you if you wanna see what I'm workin with call me and leave a message if I dont pick that shit up. And who the fuck are you to speculate on what the fuck my beats are worth? I got beats from Bosko and they werent $500. Get a fuckin Bosko beat and tell me how much you got it for. I got beats from Sideways out the YOC and he has more fire than any producer on this fuckin board, you jokin if you think other wise. And the homies don't charge me $500 a fuckin beat and he has HEAT. Why? Cause he's good fuckin business. I got 4 beats from him, we've done tracks together and he knows that we got somethen worth persuing. None of you mother fuckers know me, but you know what, you gonna know me thats on my life. If you wanna get real ya'al are half assed on here. Kev SKi I heard you can master REAL good and I got your number from Graham out in cotati and I planned on hittin you up to master my shit. But as far as producen none of ya'al got names and you know what? YOUR BEATS AINT AS DOPE AS YOU THINK TEHY ARE I DONT give a FUCK what kinda equipment you got. You still aint makin noice. YOu dont got a fuckin name cause you beats as hot as you think they are.

 

[Kp]

I've listened to all the producers beats on here that post them up and some of em are alright but I seriously would not pay you for them beats. But I've holla'd at a couple of you to AT LEAST chop about some business but I either got no response when I said "I'm not tryin to break bread on a beat but I think we can work out somethen" or it was "Yea sure buddy". Whatever. You guys are the fuckin ones cryin not the rappers. Aint no rapper said shit yet but me. And I'm sittin here sayin I feel you, just go about your business a little diff/ better. Dont take it to the ass, just soak. I havent hated on anyone or even really disagreed about the topic. I'm REAL TALK

 

[Kp]

and just a litte more Kev Ski

Dogg I'm new to this professional level but I been rappin for years. I'll come through and do a track in one take and thats real. I'm reharsed before I Step in the lab. And if I wanted my shit dubbed and wanted ad libs and you said "Naw fuck that, I dont do that I'm taken this producen to heart" I'd tell you to fuck yourself. You the motha fuckin engineer not God homie. Theres a million other dope studios out here. That aint very good for a businessman to be closed minded cause he wants to be stubborn...

 

[kev ski]

get it straight i never said i was the shit, i just stated the prices for my services so settle down kid, get one thing straight i didnt make it as far as i have by helping out every muthafucca that wanna rap this shit is for money to me no hoes not cars none of that shit, yeah i dont have a name but sofuccin what i been in the game since 87 doin somethin djing mixing mastering working at mix magizine yeah i used to do product reviews and shit over there,got a degree in music business over 5000 hours in the studio,run my own cd replication company,consult for 2 distribution companys cd collection is over 700 rap cds been to over 100 rap shows scene everybody fool ! studied the art that i love what you about rappin ? lol, to produce a track takes group effort but the producer calls the shots thats what the producer does not make a beat he molds you and the music ,yeah alot of cats complain about my not allowing doubles but most of the time they see it my way after its done if you can rap then you dont need that shit ,
remember ,you aint adlibin or punchin in when you on stage feel me ? you can take it how you want to, i still think alot of you rappers are cheap as fuck with your lets make a deal shit i got skills in more than one area kid get it straight i dont think im better than anyone i just get tired of everyone complainin bout shit ,i wanna see you finish your project spend a whole lotta cash then have some broke ass fool tell you your shit aint worth $10.00 but wants to make a deal for $5.00 when not if that happens then you will start to understand what its all about ,
people bein cheap, yeah i got homies that rap and make beats ea-ski and cmt? ant banks? aobie on the new c-bo comp ,two tracks with c-bo? greg james? ring a bell? how about alex majia or glenn ouree both where program directors at kmel both are in l.a. glenn at priority alex at sony yeah i got homies too how bout jc ricks? arista fool how about joe grandberg produced tracks for tory amos and tony braxton hes from santa rosa a noname like myself how about roman mott the homie from oakland is doin tracks for nocturnal otta la confadencial,yeah i know people too so dont go gettin all slap happy cuzz you makin a album good luck with your cd
i have no bad feelings tward s you at all man

 

[Kp]

and I none towards you

I think we are both misinterpreting what we've both said. Dont call me "kid" though. I wasn't tryin to sit up here and battle with who's resume is thicker. Didnt i JUST say I'm new to this professional level? So take a chill pill cuzzin. And I was saying as far as engineering in YOUR lab, you need not be close minded. I know you cant punch in on stage, but what you gonna tell 40 Watta if he comes through? He uses an unlimited amount of tracks cause the man is a nut. You gonna say "Sorry 40 my lab, my rules". Do you feel what Im sayin? If I was YOUR sole artist and you was my producer then shit would be a whole lot different. And I didnt one time say YOU DID NOT HAVE SKILLS or talent. That was aimed at other people who know who they are. I'm sayin to you that I aint heard none of your beats regardless of who you fuck wit. But I DID hear you can master like none other AND you jug folks. And trust when I say I'm not a cheap person. And I dislike CHEAP people TRUST me. I would feel disrespected if someone tried to say"I'll drop you $5 for that album" I would prolly slap the fuckin taste out someones mouth if they approached like that. And I also understand you tryin to get paid doin this shit. But I'm tellin you how it is: unless you have a name or your beats are super fire, you aint gonna get $500 a track from a pro wit this, shit you aint getting $500 from me. There's too many half assed producers out there who are trying to charge $500 a beat. Fuck that. And even if you had super fire beats you STILL gotta start somewhere. Meaning give some fuckin beats out once and awhile. Jug folks. Go out on a fucking limb sometimes. Youd be surpriesd at waht sorta business did slide your way. This is all about business anyway. You can either be a dick or be good business. Its up to ya'al. You other fucks EXPECT To get paid just cause you spent Gz on equipment and know how to use a sequencing program. Maybe you can use it well but that STILL DONT mean you can make a hit beat. Same thing goes for rappers, if you aint ill dont expect to get helped out by a prodcuer who is dope. I wouldnt do it. Whack people do nothin but flood this game anyway, we all can agree on that. I think my points are being overlooked so read my shit then respond.

 

[Kp]

I couldn't agree more and I'll add that.... Why do you think 99% of these rappers ain't shit and ain't gonna be shit? Because any mutha fucka who wants to argue the price of a hot $500 beat doesn't even respect the music itself and those type of people NEVER make it off their own doorstep.

Thats the stupidest fuckin thig I've seen so far about this whole shit. I argue about everything when it comes to a purchase---you dont? I'm a business man first and I never pay retail for anything. If you hit me off wit $500 thats a fuckin starting point for negotiations. Dont wanna negotiate? Fuck you, I'll remember you and if I DO make it I'll make sure to let everyone I Fuck wit that you bad business (I'm saying you in general). You sayin an artist wit only $3000 for an album aint shit and dont respect the music? Damn that's a lot of speculation for someone speaking for 99% of rappers. You have no fuckin idea what an artist wit no dough could turn into. Youre speaken ignorant nonsense right now, get off that high horse and be real.

 

[bumpus]

You have no fuckin idea what an artist wit no dough could turn into. Youre speaken ignorant nonsense right now, get off that high horse and be real.

Being real involves realizing that giving away beats for a no name artist with no budget for beats (and that consequently means no budget for promotion and advertising), will not get you very far. The game is not a game by any means... It is a business. In a business, you need capitol to invest into your project, and resources to adversise your product to have a hope of putting it into consumers' hands.

True, business involves negotiating about prices. But don't expect a serious producer to hand you over his product for a trifle of a price if you have no means of marketing your music. A serious producer would look at that situation and realize that he is not likely going to get promotion, and definately not going to get monetary compensation.

If you can pimp a hobbist producer, that's your business, but don't expect every one to bring home the money to daddy, so to speak.



-=bumpus=-

 

[Kp]

Being real involves realizing that giving away beats for a no name artist with no budget for beats (and that consequently means no budget for promotion and advertising), will not get you very far. The game is not a game by any means... It is a business. In a business, you need capitol to invest into your project, and resources to adversise your product to have a hope of putting it into consumers' hands.

True, business involves negotiating about prices. But don't expect a serious producer to hand you over his product for a trifle of a price if you have no means of marketing your music. A serious producer would look at that situation and realize that he is not likely going to get promotion, and definately not going to get monetary compensation.
-=bumpus=-

This is turning into a "What if" scenario. All you're doing is saying "If X happened then it would result in Y". We're talkin about cats gettin paid doin what they do. And I never EXPECT a fuckin thing from anyone. Again, my words are gettin twisted to fit a specific scenario. I'm using myself for many of the examples about rappers, that's why I know this is goin off on a tangent now. I originally started off with about $4 Gz but as I started to see how this shit worked, I realized I was goin to have to invest more dough if I wanted to get serious. Now I've had pretty much a whole album under my belt and I've learned more information that I would have never thought I would know. When I was first starting out, there were people who helped me out and guided me in the right direction, and there were those assholes who thought they were too dope to fuck wit a cat just starten to do an album. And I've learned that those are the guys that get looked over. They're the ones with a foot on the court, but their seat on the bench is warm. Real recognize real. Understand this

 

[Kp]

another thing

not one person made a decent point since I joined in this discussion cause I'm fuckin right, and I'm tootin my fuckin horn. Toot toot motha fucka. No hostility though

 

[BIG J]

Although, doin' shit for free for some no name, unmotivated rappers is really a waste of time. why do that when you could be gettin' money from people that are serious, and have the drive to do it. You also have to factor in the time it takes to crack a beat, plus the tracking the vocals, and the mixdown, you break that up into however many hours, and for the dude over here bitchin' about 100 dollars as an introductory rate, you could make more money at Mcdonalds or Jack in the Box fryin' up curly fries and tacos.

Good point Bumpus. It isn't a game, it never was. it's all business. and payin' off bills for equipment ain't no game either, that's as real as it gets. Some people just don't seem to get that, gear doesn't just come out of nowhere, I sure as hell don't pull that shit out my ass. That was my point from the get go, I wasn't expecting everyone to go and try to prove themselves over a message board

 

[Kp]

well that has already been agreed upon

so case closed?

 

[BIG J]

yeah, pretty much. I don't think the Discussion or should I say Arguement can go anywhere else

 

[Kp]

word.

good shit folks

 

[HERESY]

@KP with all due respect the majority of what you are saying is a matter of OPINION (yours) and PREFERENCE.

you CANT place a LIMIT on someones work. IF a person puts HOURS into production,making his OWN **sounds** from scratch,why shouldnt he be entitled to what HE feels its worth?

I understand that your NAME can get you work and profits. I understand that some people are able to make $$$$ by name alone...

I have gave away beats,sold beats,made beats for people and snatched them back because they didnt have the cash. i KNOW what im worth and i dont have a SET PRICE. i go by the persons BUDGET. you want a track? whats your budget? what do you plan on doing with the track? who gets publishing? do you want it as a work for hire etc etc etc? MANY aspects can be considered when setting a price. Some people CANT negotiate when it comes to the services they offer. i wouldnt say its bad business.

IF i hear a tight rapper and i want to him on a track i will give him a beat and get him on some type of compilation or whatever. i just did that in new york and philly. if i hear a stupid rapper and he wants a hot ass beat it aint cool. im not sellin you nothin...unless you have MAJOR bread and i get MAJOR publishing.

IF a rapper comes to ME for MY PRODUCTION and COMPOSING its going to cost. UNLESS im REALLY vibing with the cat he is gonna have to break bread. with me you are paying for the SERVICE.

PRODUCTION: im going to come with a concept,tell you what mics to use,tell the engineer what types of verb to use, tell the composer What arrangements to play,how to play them, tell you HOW to say certain parts and what parts sound good ad libbed. im going to mold YOU and THE MUSIC AND PRESENT A FINAL PRODUCT. this is NOT an easy task for the average "beatmaker".

COMPOSING: im going to make you a track/beat or music. i'll make it myself or you can tell me what you want and dont want. i can use stock sounds but advise making sounds from scratch. you can rap on it or wipe your ass with it. as long as you DONT slang it to someone else or come wack.

IF a person cant pay me what im worth keep moving on. Will i BEND? yes. will i be a SUCKER/FOOL and give it away for pennies?? no. why? because YOU might have a budget that YOU arent being truthful with and i know what im worth.

heres a suggestion if you dont wanna pay for production or compositions you can easily buy your own equipment. the hard part is actually learning the equipment and coming up with something thats heated.

i dont expect to get paid because i spent over 20 grand on equipment.

i dont expect to get rich because i recorded in a million dollar studio (thanks for the hook up kev ski) and spent over ten grand.

i expect to get paid because i know what im doing and i will provide quality product.

i DO understand where you are coming from but at the same time i dont feel you are looking at it from the producers/composer perspective. its too many HALF ASS rappers trying to get beats for UNDER $500 or for FREE! so what do you do? you weed them out.



:h:


PS GOOD LUCK ON YOUR ALBUM

 

[Sick Wid It]

Thats the stupidest fuckin thig I've seen so far about this whole shit. I argue about everything when it comes to a purchase---you dont? I'm a business man first and I never pay retail for anything. If you hit me off wit $500 thats a fuckin starting point for negotiations. Dont wanna negotiate? Fuck you, I'll remember you and if I DO make it I'll make sure to let everyone I Fuck wit that you bad business (I'm saying you in general). You sayin an artist wit only $3000 for an album aint shit and dont respect the music? Damn that's a lot of speculation for someone speaking for 99% of rappers. You have no fuckin idea what an artist wit no dough could turn into. Youre speaken ignorant nonsense right now, get off that high horse and be real.

It only sounds stupid to you because you are green in this business and don't understand how some things work. You don't know any better. I won't knock you for your ignorance of the business but learn to keep your mouth on a leash because you will get really spanked arguing with cats who do it for real. Not everyone here is a rookie or hobbyist homie, understand that.

Now... I didn't say anything about a cat with a $3000 budget. I said anyone who wants to argue a $500 price tag for a fire track doesn't have any respect for the music itself. So a hit isn't worth a chump ass $500 to you? That just shows how much you don't know or understand yet.

Do you think producers should care more about all these 'anythings possible, wishing on a star' rappers or making sure their power bill is paid so they can keep making music? There's a million rappers with their hand out looking for charity & sympathy and thinking they should get this or that. That shit is a flash in the pan just like them.

You made some high horse comment but you're the one 'tooting your own horn' and saying nobody but yourself has made a decent point. Those are your words homie. You THINK you're right but remember, you're the rookie here and you got a whole lot to learn.

 

[Sick Wid It]

[Byou want a track? whats your budget? what do you plan on doing with the track? who gets publishing? do you want it as a work for hire etc etc etc? MANY aspects can be considered when setting a price. Some people CANT negotiate when it comes to the services they offer. i wouldnt say its bad business.[/b]

It isn't bad business at all. Like you said, some people can't negotiate and some people don't have to. Bad business has nothing to do with it and cats won't get ANYWHERE havin' that 'fuck you then' attitude about it.

IF i hear a tight rapper and i want to him on a track i will give him a beat and get him on some type of compilation or whatever. i just did that in new york and philly. if i hear a stupid rapper and he wants a hot ass beat it aint cool. im not sellin you nothin...unless you have MAJOR bread and i get MAJOR publishing.

A lot of cats don't understand that you have to be selective about who uses your music, especially if you want to have a real career doing it. Helping cats who you feel are deserving is one thing but helping everyone who has their hand out will never get you to the top.