industry standard mics??
- Thread starter TUNEZ_PWP
- Start date
This is one of the smartest posts I've seen. Thinking that way already gives you the advantage. Sooooo many people think buying some equipment is all it takes. WRONG. Equipment only does what it's commanded to. Talented people are what makes hot records. If it's not in you or you arn't quite there yet, go deal with the people who are and soak everything!
If you're not smart about how you spend your budget, that $20k could be $200k and you'll still come up short.
If you're not smart about how you spend your budget, that $20k could be $200k and you'll still come up short.
So why not spend that 20k on school? IMHO it should be left to a persons learning capabilities and not so much as soaking game from anyone else. If you are able to read a book and apply the knowledge you read what is the use of spending 20k on an investment you might not EVER see a return on? At least with some equipment you have the potential to make some of your money back by finding people who need time or beats. If that doesn't work you can always use ebay or craigslist.
If you are spending all your money on studio time and recieve a lackluster product then what? What if the studio owner/engineer is giving you a crappy product, but you don't know it's crappy because your ears are not trained?
If you are spending all your money on studio time and recieve a lackluster product then what? What if the studio owner/engineer is giving you a crappy product, but you don't know it's crappy because your ears are not trained?
And I'm NOT implying that soaking game is a bad idea because it's not. But how much do you have to pay for that game when you can easily find many resources online (artistpro, digi duc, pro audio web, homerecording) and actually TALK with the big wigs? Ok you might think about the lack of hands on training, but thats where the gear comes in.
Soaking game is directly tied to a persons learning capabilities. If they're smart they'll get around some sharp cats and ask a lot of questions as well as watch the process. Soaking is learning. A student is (hopefully) soaking whether its from a book, a teacher or someone who gets paid to do exactly what the student is trying to learn.
Reading is good, hands-on is good, hands-on with someone who knows what they're doing is better, and all three even better than that. He could spend that $20k on anything that's been mentioned so far and never see a return. There's a million different ways for an album to flop which is why investing in music is so high risk to begin with.
It's been my experience that the best teachers are the ones who are doing it, successfully, for a living. Nothing wrong with school though. Just make sure if you go that route that your teachers are credible, well-knowledged and have actual experience doing what they're teaching you because yes, I have met teachers who've had little (if any) real world experience.
Reading is good, hands-on is good, hands-on with someone who knows what they're doing is better, and all three even better than that. He could spend that $20k on anything that's been mentioned so far and never see a return. There's a million different ways for an album to flop which is why investing in music is so high risk to begin with.
It's been my experience that the best teachers are the ones who are doing it, successfully, for a living. Nothing wrong with school though. Just make sure if you go that route that your teachers are credible, well-knowledged and have actual experience doing what they're teaching you because yes, I have met teachers who've had little (if any) real world experience.
I don't see the logic in throwing all your eggs in one basket especially when that basket belongs to someone else. Yes he could spend 20k and never see a return but lets look at this realistically. If he did spend some money on a setup he has more potential to make money and learn. If he spends money on studio time and runs out of money how will he be able to complete his album, apply what he actually learned in the studio or perfect his production skills? What would have been best IMHO, would have been to buy your own setup and if you need to learn from an engineer have one come to your spot.
Equipment = something tangible and at the end of the day he can always power up his gear, practice his craft and not worry about engineers and booking outside studios. Once you leave the studio and your session is over what else will you have to fall back on? The next time you'll be able to ask questions or even touch an equalizer is when you pay someone else. When will you ever be able to perfect your production skills and tighten up your beats? When you pay someone else.
Some of us have the ability to read something or see it done once and be able to do it on our own. Some us have the ability to learn from others but can't learn from books (because some of us don't like to read) while others can pick up books and apply the knowledge. Realistically most people will NOT remember how to use a compressor or sidechaining so how are they to practice if they only have access to gear they have to pay for by the hour?
Equipment = something tangible and at the end of the day he can always power up his gear, practice his craft and not worry about engineers and booking outside studios. Once you leave the studio and your session is over what else will you have to fall back on? The next time you'll be able to ask questions or even touch an equalizer is when you pay someone else. When will you ever be able to perfect your production skills and tighten up your beats? When you pay someone else.
Some of us have the ability to read something or see it done once and be able to do it on our own. Some us have the ability to learn from others but can't learn from books (because some of us don't like to read) while others can pick up books and apply the knowledge. Realistically most people will NOT remember how to use a compressor or sidechaining so how are they to practice if they only have access to gear they have to pay for by the hour?
It sounded like the cat wanted a project done and knows he isn't able to do the type of quality work he wants so he opted to pay for those services from other people. I didn't interpret what he said as his intentions being to learn how to use gear while renting it by the hour and I certainly didn't recommend that. If getting his project done isn't a priority then of course he can buy gear and invest the time it takes to learn how to use everything (assuming he has the free time).
YoungMoe, a lotta people are like you in that respect (including myself). Easier to learn by asking questions and being shown. I'm fortunate to come from a musical family. I grew up around musicians, studios, the industry, etc. Had a lot of good teachers right from go.
YoungMoe, a lotta people are like you in that respect (including myself). Easier to learn by asking questions and being shown. I'm fortunate to come from a musical family. I grew up around musicians, studios, the industry, etc. Had a lot of good teachers right from go.
Heresy your talking about investing in equipment for a studio or home studio but your talking about investing in education as well. Logically you would want the education first, so when you do invest money you know what your investing it in. This is a major long-term career-starting goal-oriented step. A good education in recording arts is going to take atleast 12 months. And I bet it's worth every penny if that's what someone sincerely wanted to do but not everyone has the passion or even wants to become a professional engineer, most of us just want to make good high quality music while learning as much as we can during the process. I mean if we could each do it all on our own, we wouldn't have ready-available studios with well experienced educated producers and engineers working with us towards a short-term investment goal, which would be the mastering and/or release of a record/album.
I'm not sure what kind of albums you are making but where I'm from 20 grand is more than enough to break a record. Especially if you manage your money well and use it wisely and educate yourself on who you are investing it in. 10 grand is enough in that sense. Also, I go into a studio when the production is done, songs are written and everything is ready to be recorded, mixed and mastered. So if your smart, your spending money on the time it takes to record your verses, and then from there get them mixed and mastered and while that is going on your right there beside the engineer soaking in everything he/she is doing, or as much as you can. To me that's a good learning experience for an artist, while getting the job done right.
How can he make money if he's still learning or renting an engineer to learn how to use the equipment he bought? Beyond that, what is he going to invest in if he doesn't know the equipment first? He needs an education first and foremost. For an associates degree that will take atleast 12 months and probably most of that 20 grand if it's at a good well-known and respected media/art institute.
I see your point of view well, it's just that, not everyone wants to go in that direction, maybe they have other career choices and just love making music and learning as much about it on the side. Like myself. But I respect those who do want to go in that direction or are going in that direction, like yourself. I just think the differences in this thread are differences of opinion of what one would do. Long-term investment or short-term investment.
I'm not sure what kind of albums you are making but where I'm from 20 grand is more than enough to break a record. Especially if you manage your money well and use it wisely and educate yourself on who you are investing it in. 10 grand is enough in that sense. Also, I go into a studio when the production is done, songs are written and everything is ready to be recorded, mixed and mastered. So if your smart, your spending money on the time it takes to record your verses, and then from there get them mixed and mastered and while that is going on your right there beside the engineer soaking in everything he/she is doing, or as much as you can. To me that's a good learning experience for an artist, while getting the job done right.
How can he make money if he's still learning or renting an engineer to learn how to use the equipment he bought? Beyond that, what is he going to invest in if he doesn't know the equipment first? He needs an education first and foremost. For an associates degree that will take atleast 12 months and probably most of that 20 grand if it's at a good well-known and respected media/art institute.
I see your point of view well, it's just that, not everyone wants to go in that direction, maybe they have other career choices and just love making music and learning as much about it on the side. Like myself. But I respect those who do want to go in that direction or are going in that direction, like yourself. I just think the differences in this thread are differences of opinion of what one would do. Long-term investment or short-term investment.
Thats not part of my arguement.
Depends on who you ask and where you learn.
Again, thats not part of my arguement.
See the above.
I'm not sure what type of album you are making either but 20k is NOT enough for some albums and it's EASY to go over budget. If you are tracking and mixing at a studio with an SSL or Neve running a pro tools rig you are looking at $650-$900 *MINIMUM* for an 8 hour block. If that is the price for the studio time WITHOUT an engineer expect to add on another $200-300 per 8 hour session for engineering. Lets say you decide to go to tape, you are looking at $150-$275 per day for a tape head fee and at LEAST 2 reels which will run you around $175 each. These numbers are not applicable to all studios or projects and it all depends on WHAT you want to get out of it and where you go. You can also spend $250-$400 on 8 hour blocks, get good results and still dump to tape. It's all on the person, the budget and how they want the material to sound.
No one implied it wasn't.
I don't disagree with you.
He can rob Peter to pay Paul. I hope you understand what I mean by that.
Are you implying a person needs to go to school in order to learn what equipment he or she should invest in? Please clarify. An associates degree is NOT required for someone who wants to purchase equipment and learn the ins and outs of audio recording. Please clarify your statement.
It's obvious that you DON'T see my point my friend. I understand not everyone wants to go in that direction but what IS that direction? I honestly don't believe you understand what I'm trying to convey. Look at youngmoe he is going to use a ribbon mic and I find ribbons to be very difficult, fragile and not worth the trouble. To each his own my friend.
He said he wanted to record an album over professional beats and get a professional sound. He said he would purchase his own setup if were able to make the money back. So is his investment short-term or long-term? Whatever the case may be I wish him well in his career.
Depends on who you ask and where you learn.
Again, thats not part of my arguement.
See the above.
I'm not sure what type of album you are making either but 20k is NOT enough for some albums and it's EASY to go over budget. If you are tracking and mixing at a studio with an SSL or Neve running a pro tools rig you are looking at $650-$900 *MINIMUM* for an 8 hour block. If that is the price for the studio time WITHOUT an engineer expect to add on another $200-300 per 8 hour session for engineering. Lets say you decide to go to tape, you are looking at $150-$275 per day for a tape head fee and at LEAST 2 reels which will run you around $175 each. These numbers are not applicable to all studios or projects and it all depends on WHAT you want to get out of it and where you go. You can also spend $250-$400 on 8 hour blocks, get good results and still dump to tape. It's all on the person, the budget and how they want the material to sound.
No one implied it wasn't.
I don't disagree with you.
He can rob Peter to pay Paul. I hope you understand what I mean by that.
Are you implying a person needs to go to school in order to learn what equipment he or she should invest in? Please clarify. An associates degree is NOT required for someone who wants to purchase equipment and learn the ins and outs of audio recording. Please clarify your statement.
It's obvious that you DON'T see my point my friend. I understand not everyone wants to go in that direction but what IS that direction? I honestly don't believe you understand what I'm trying to convey. Look at youngmoe he is going to use a ribbon mic and I find ribbons to be very difficult, fragile and not worth the trouble. To each his own my friend.
He said he wanted to record an album over professional beats and get a professional sound. He said he would purchase his own setup if were able to make the money back. So is his investment short-term or long-term? Whatever the case may be I wish him well in his career.
Good points here, One thing I will say is that before you spend a penny on anything you should use all the different gear you can. And if that means you spend $500.00 on studio time to go and sit and play with sound modules mics and all that then it will be worth it.
I spent about 10,000.00 on gear only to realize that even though I know how to create my own sounds, It wasnt something I wanted to spend 3 hours doing. So after I maxed out all my hardware and got tired of my all the presets and the presets that I tweaked, I dove into software and found out that it was more of what I was looking for. vast amounts of sound libraries and no more spending 2 hours on creating a synth lead that im gonna use for a 8 bar chorus. so when I did sell of my gear, it was at a fraction of the price and I basically took a big loss.
So do your research before you go spend your money on ANYTHING. you will be much happier in the long run.
I spent about 10,000.00 on gear only to realize that even though I know how to create my own sounds, It wasnt something I wanted to spend 3 hours doing. So after I maxed out all my hardware and got tired of my all the presets and the presets that I tweaked, I dove into software and found out that it was more of what I was looking for. vast amounts of sound libraries and no more spending 2 hours on creating a synth lead that im gonna use for a 8 bar chorus. so when I did sell of my gear, it was at a fraction of the price and I basically took a big loss.
So do your research before you go spend your money on ANYTHING. you will be much happier in the long run.