How to make your poor poorer

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May 13, 2002
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#1
How to make your poor poorer

Although Senate Republicans in Washington recently defeated an effort to raise the minimum wage from $5.15 to $7.25 an hour over a two-year period, new legislation to do the same has just been reintroduced. The last raise was in 1997. I found some ironies in this so good that I just had to whip out my trusty calculator.

Here are some things I came up with: Picture a single mother of two children who works somewhere in my home state of West Virginia at $5.15 an hour, 40 hours a week year round. The hardest part to believe is the 40 hours part. She would earn $10,712 a year, or $5,378 below the federal poverty level of $16,090 for that family size. Put another way, her earnings only reach two-thirds of the poverty level.

Now look at a hypothetical right-wing member of Congress who voted down the wage increase. His or her base salary is $162,100, according to the Congressional Research Service.

The congressperson in question would probably also have additional income and sizable personal wealth, but we’ll leave that aside.

The single mom would have to work about 31,476 hours to earn what the Congress member gets in a year. That’s a little more than 15 years without overtime. By contrast, if the congressman had to work 40 hours a week year round to earn the base salary, he or she would surpass the mom’s annual salary in about three and a half weeks.

Conditions are better for the anti-worker congressperson too. Unlike Mom, the congressman in question gets regular salary increases, not to mention good health insurance and lots of vacations or recesses. By contrast, Mom usually does without health care and hasn’t seen a recess since elementary school.

As Sen. Tom Harkin of Iowa said, “Since 1997, the last time we raised the minimum wage, members of Congress have raised their own pay seven times in the last eight years, by $28,500. Think about that. We vote to raise our pay seven times in eight years by $28,500, but for minimum-wage workers earning $10,700 a year, we can’t vote to raise their minimum wage. Shame on the Senate.”

So much for the Golden Rule of doing unto others as we would have them do unto us. Mom would have to work almost three years just to earn the raises enacted by Congress since the minimum wage went up last time. For that matter, she’d have to work almost eight years to earn what the richest 1 percent grabbed in President Bush’s tax giveaways last year.

To make matters worse, the minimum wage Mom earns is worth less than it was in the 1960s and 1970s. During that period, the poverty level was fairly close to the full-time minimum-wage level. However, it remained static at $3.35 from 1981 through 1990. Its value fell and never regained lost ground. In 2001, the minimum wage adjusted for inflation was 21 percent less than the minimum wage in 1979 and 27 percent less than in 1968, the year of its highest level. If the 1968 minimum wage was adjusted for inflation, it would now be worth $8.90 an hour.

The usual rationale against raising the minimum wage (aside from the real reason of wanting cheap help) goes something like this: increasing the wage would, in addition to causing the moon to turn to blood and making the stars fall from the heavens, force employers to lay off low-wage workers, i.e. hurt the very people it is intended to help.

In other words, trying to help these people only hurts them, and the best way to help them is to really stick it to them, which is pretty much what is happening now.

This must explain why it’s so great to be among the working poor these days.

If this argument sounds old, it is. In the early days of the 20th century, many industrialists argued that abolishing child labor in sweatshops would only hurt children. The Pharaoh in Exodus probably said the same thing about letting the children of Israel go.

The problem with that argument in the case of raising the minimum wage is that it doesn’t work. In 1996, when the last increase was being debated, opponents said that it would cost between 100,000 and 625,000 jobs.

According to Terence Samuel, chief congressional correspondent for U.S. News & World Report and a columnist for The American Prospect Online: “In 1997, the non-farm economy created more than 3 million new jobs, unemployment was at its lowest rate in 28 years, the gross domestic product expanded by 3.8 percent, and the growth in earnings took off. In addition, real average hourly earnings saw their largest increases in 21 years.”

If that was the end of the world, can we have some more?

Most Americans realize that workers need purchasing power if our economy is going to run. In several public opinion polls conducted over the last four years, around 80 percent of Americans favored raising the minimum wage. Making work pay is good policy as well as good politics.

If most Americans can figure that out, why can’t the current ruling clique?

LINK
 
Apr 25, 2002
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#3
People who work minimum wage choose to do so. At one point in thier life they decided they did not want to better themselfs by going to college. Dont gimmie that no money ghetto shit, I have had a stedy job since i was 16 and i was working odd jobs (cleaning peoples yards or pools, and doing landscaping) before that. Also when i was working minimum wage jobs i would get ones with commision or tips. Every minimum wage job i had i was making 6.75 (about) base pay but on avrage after taxes i was making 11-12 an hour. Cuz i busted my ass and worked as hard as i could. Financial Aid is paying for my college education and my montgomory GI bill is paying my rent and food. My father also made it though college on his own, my grandmother bagged grocerys at safeway for a living, and his father wasnt around. So if you want to work minimum wage it is your choice. You choose to be a teenage parent, you choose to be a drug addict (know from personal experiance), You choose to be an alcoholic. Every door is open to you at birth, you choose what ones to close.

PS i am making an avarage of $7.90/ hour based on my minimum 12 hour work day, 7 day work week and i am in Iraq. Putting my life on the line, and you are telling me some bitch who got knocked up when she was 16 and is now working at denny's is underpaied??
 
Jun 27, 2003
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#6
KleanKut said:
People who work minimum wage choose to do so. At one point in thier life they decided they did not want to better themselfs by going to college. Dont gimmie that no money ghetto shit, I have had a stedy job since i was 16 and i was working odd jobs (cleaning peoples yards or pools, and doing landscaping) before that. Also when i was working minimum wage jobs i would get ones with commision or tips. Every minimum wage job i had i was making 6.75 (about) base pay but on avrage after taxes i was making 11-12 an hour. Cuz i busted my ass and worked as hard as i could. Financial Aid is paying for my college education and my montgomory GI bill is paying my rent and food. My father also made it though college on his own, my grandmother bagged grocerys at safeway for a living, and his father wasnt around. So if you want to work minimum wage it is your choice. You choose to be a teenage parent, you choose to be a drug addict (know from personal experiance), You choose to be an alcoholic. Every door is open to you at birth, you choose what ones to close.

PS i am making an avarage of $7.90/ hour based on my minimum 12 hour work day, 7 day work week and i am in Iraq. Putting my life on the line, and you are telling me some bitch who got knocked up when she was 16 and is now working at denny's is underpaied??
People who work minimum wage jobs do not CHOOSE to do so. I'm sure if they could CHOOSE a better job they would. You say they chose not to go to college, how about the ones who DID choose to go to college, but were on welfare. A lot of welfare programs force the recipients to work at jobs to repay the state and these jobs can be pretty demanding. When you're working the whole day, trying to go to school fulltime, and you're studying, something's got to give. My mother couldn't afford any educations past grade school, and when she came to this country it was hard enough just trying to adjust. How about the foreigners who already went to college in their homeland, but jobs here won't hire people with diplomas from certain countries. Don't try to give sum bullshit about people who work minimum wage jobs CHOOSE to do so, because they don't bro.

That's great that you had steady jobs and you were working minimum wage, but I'm sure your parents were supporting you at 16 so your argument doesn't really count. Try getting an apartment, making rent, paying bills, paying for transportation, and making minimum wage. It doesn't cut it. Sure, you can get by working two or three jobs, but not comfortably.

Every door is NOT open to you at birth. If you really think that every school, every employer, every person in authority is truly an "equal-oppurtunity" institution then you are delusional. I agree, some people do choose to live a shitty life, and some people are just straight up lazy livin off of welfare. That shit pisses me off cuz it fucks it up for the people who really NEED assistance. However, saying that anybody who works a minimum wage job CHOOSES to do so is bullshit. Maybe some people are on welfare and can't get into college because of the choices their parents made, but that's not their fault. Your argument is that your family did it, just curious, are you white? You can't deny that race DOES play a factor in a lot of workplaces, schools, banks, etc etc etc.

Also, why do you immediately say "dont gimme that no money ghetto shit"? In pure numbers, the poor people of this country are some white, trailor park folks, not "no money ghetto shit" mothafuckas.
 
Dec 18, 2002
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#7
The article isn't about the choices people make or if people deserve higher than minimum wage, but there is a standard of living in this country that CANNOT be obtained by a large amount of people; congressman raised their own wages and that ADDS on top of money from lobbyists and bribes if they choose to recieve them.

So, a child born in a poor neighborhood, abandoned by his/her parents, and living with a grandparent, is probably SURROUNDED by RICH drug dealers who see NO POINT in busting their ass to NOT EVEN LIVE UP TO OUR STANDARD OF LIVING.

Whether or not the minimum wage is deserved or not, you cannot argue that a higher standard of living for everyone wouldn't be an improvement.
 
Apr 25, 2002
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#8
Jae iLL said:
People who work minimum wage jobs do not CHOOSE to do so. I'm sure if they could CHOOSE a better job they would. You say they chose not to go to college, how about the ones who DID choose to go to college, but were on welfare. A lot of welfare programs force the recipients to work at jobs to repay the state and these jobs can be pretty demanding. When you're working the whole day, trying to go to school fulltime, and you're studying, something's got to give. My mother couldn't afford any educations past grade school, and when she came to this country it was hard enough just trying to adjust. How about the foreigners who already went to college in their homeland, but jobs here won't hire people with diplomas from certain countries. Don't try to give sum bullshit about people who work minimum wage jobs CHOOSE to do so, because they don't bro.

That's great that you had steady jobs and you were working minimum wage, but I'm sure your parents were supporting you at 16 so your argument doesn't really count. Try getting an apartment, making rent, paying bills, paying for transportation, and making minimum wage. It doesn't cut it. Sure, you can get by working two or three jobs, but not comfortably.

Every door is NOT open to you at birth. If you really think that every school, every employer, every person in authority is truly an "equal-oppurtunity" institution then you are delusional. I agree, some people do choose to live a shitty life, and some people are just straight up lazy livin off of welfare. That shit pisses me off cuz it fucks it up for the people who really NEED assistance. However, saying that anybody who works a minimum wage job CHOOSES to do so is bullshit. Maybe some people are on welfare and can't get into college because of the choices their parents made, but that's not their fault. Your argument is that your family did it, just curious, are you white? You can't deny that race DOES play a factor in a lot of workplaces, schools, banks, etc etc etc.

Also, why do you immediately say "dont gimme that no money ghetto shit"? In pure numbers, the poor people of this country are some white, trailor park folks, not "no money ghetto shit" mothafuckas.
Forginers have it harder i will agree, my mother imigrated from holland with my grandmother when she was 20 (after my grandmother applied for a green card 20 years prior, and your telling me people form Mexico cant wait?) She only knew converstiaonal english, yet she still managed to get a BA from SF State while her and my grandmother worked at a diner in San Anselmo to pay for her education and rent. And my grandfather did odd jobs for people and was also a musicin for hire. Both of my parents had the odds stacked agenst them yet they still made something of themselfs. I know how hard it is personaly to get through college, I work at GNC, am in the Army National Guard, and get financial aid to pay for my college. Its not easy, however if you choose to make it happen it can. If you choose to say "fuck it i cant ever get though it" you never will, it takes hard work and detrmination. So lets see, my mother was a forginer who had to work and go to school, my father was poor and had to work while he went to school, I have to work when i go to school (not to mention save up for law school). Looks like it can be done if you really want it to happen. But what do i know im only living it right. It doenst have to be a job you like it jsut needs to be a job, My dad worked at a plant that pressed man hole covers, and also worked at KFC. What my parents had to go through jsut to get through college and i work my ass off as well. Help shape my current political views. If my family can do it, also peers who i go to school with can. I dont want to hear bitching and whining that someone else cant do it. Its pure lazieness, thats it. So you can say what you want, but its all bullshit because i have lived it.

PS the ghetto thing wasnt to be racist since i know there are a shit load of poor white people. I live in Chico ha ha. However it was the topic that was gong to pop up on this board. (since i dont think there are too many people who live in traliors and eat mayonayse sandwitches on this board)
 
Apr 25, 2002
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#9
Jae iLL said:
just curious, are you white? You can't deny that race DOES play a factor in a lot of workplaces, schools, banks, etc etc etc.

I consider myself white, i am sicilan,cherokee,dutch, with a little french. I dont know some consider me white, some dont. It doesnt matter to me.
 
Apr 25, 2002
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#10
you know what really bothers me? EVERYTHING IS EXPENSIVE AS FUCK! Everyone says globalization and free trade makes things cheaper, but last time I checked all my shoes and underwear are made in Asia and they are twice as expensive as they were 7 years ago! Everything from Starbucks cofee to agriculture to socks to videogames are more fuckin expensive day by day...yet inflation is low right? Some one please speak on this...not too up on my econ.
 
May 8, 2002
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#11
its because your shoes from today are paying lebron james 91 million dollars

how much of every pair is he getting?? how much are you paying from each pair of nikes to michael jordan?? kobe??

the things are cheaper to make and to sell but so long as dumb asses like todays youth keep paying top dollar just to say they have a famous persons shoes on them the prices will continue to increase.
 

D-Boy

Sicc OG
May 18, 2002
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#12
^^ yeah, ur not paying for labor and parts. ur paying for patents, for the name, for other useless petty shit. and shit IS cheaper than it would be without globalization and free trade. the markups happen because of protectionist measures by countries. they had to make up acura to sell hondas....
 

Nick470

EclipseGFX
May 10, 2005
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#15
Very true 2-0 SIXX....When my mom came over from mexico her parents pulled her out of high school her junior year to work in the fields. Now since then she has been a farm worker working in warehouse earing just minimum wage. She's a single mother with 2 kids right now, but she has to be on government assistance. And she has no way of getter herself out of that cycle cuz if she gets a better job then she has to move out of her low income housing and if she does that she still wont be able to afford the new place. So she's stuck there and its like the government is keeping her there. She only makes $12-$15k a year...So I try to help her out whenever I can obviously cuz i'm her son..but no one can criticize this life unless they've been thru it..
 
May 13, 2002
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#17
Minimum Wage: Lowest in 50 Years
Posted June 22, 2006.

Paying working folks a livable wage helps everyone, but it's been nine years -- and nine Congressional pay raises -- since the minimum wage was last increased.​

The buying power of the federal minimum wage is currently at its lowest level in 51 years. Eighty-three percent of Americans favor an increase in the minimum wage (nearly half "strongly support" it). Yet, the House conservative leadership hasn't allowed a full floor vote on the minimum wage since the last increase went into effect, in 1997.

Yesterday, the House Appropriations Committee voted 34 to 28 against attaching a minimum wage amendment to a key spending bill, thus depriving it of a vote on the House floor. But last week, that same committee had agreed to attach the minimum wage amendment to a separate spending measure that funds the departments of Labor and Health and Human Services. Upon passage of last week's amendment, the House leadership announced it would delay bringing the Labor-Health bill to the floor for a vote, and in the meantime, will undoubtedly undertake efforts to strip the minimum wage provision from the bill. The Senate vote today on an amendment offered by Sen. Ted Kennedy (D-MA) to raise the federal minimum wage, in three gradual installments over two years, from $5.15 to $7.25 an hour.

In the nine years since the federal minimum wage was raised, Congress has voted itself nine pay hikes totaling nearly $35,000 a year, while a full-time minimum wage worker's annual pay has not budged from $10,712. Just a few days ago, House lawmakers cleared the way for a $3,300 pay raise that will increase their salaries to $168,500. "It's the height of hypocrisy," said Kennedy.

The Senate conservative leadership is rallying opposition to Sen. Kennedy's minimum wage amendment by offering a "poison pill" measure that is meant to deter any debate on the issue. The alternative amendment, sponsored by Sen. Mike Enzi (R-WY), would raise the minimum wage to $6.25, but would couple that raise with unpalatable "reductions in overtime pay and tax cuts for businesses." This isn't the first act of political gamesmanship by the Senate conservatives. Earlier, the Senate leadership, led by Sen. Bill Frist (R-TN), floated the idea of trying to "sink the minimum-wage increase by linking it to an unrelated measure that would make it a crime to transport a minor across state lines to get an abortion."

[...]

The jobs myth

In the face of a growing movement behind increasing the minimum wage, the Right is in desperation mode and resorting to peddling regurgitated false claims that a raise hurts small businesses and job growth, increases poverty, and only benefits teenagers. In fact, the evidence as demonstrated below points in the other direction. Efforts to raise the minimum wage since 1997 have failed because business groups have opposed the measure and lobbied against it. "A group of more than 20 business organizations are fighting an increase this year, as part of the 'Coalition for Job Opportunities.'" Their members claim that they would have to cut jobs if the federal minimum wage were raised.

In truth, the evidence indicates that small businesses benefit from a higher wage. A report by the Center for American Progress and Policy Matters Ohio found that the "11 states with a minimum wage above the federal minimum of $5.15 per hour had higher rates of small business growth between 1997 and 2003." A recent report from the Wisconsin Department of Workforce Development said last year's increase in that state's hourly rate produced $175 million in additional payroll and a $3 million boost in tax revenue, without creating job loss.

Moreover, the evidence indicates higher wagers will not result in fewer jobs. A 1998 Economic Policy Institute report found that unemployment and poverty rates fell after the 1997 increase in the federal minimum wage, and economists David Card and Alan Krueger noted that increases in the minimum wage in various states in the late 1980s and early 1990s did not result in increased unemployment.

Read the reset of article, here.
 
May 4, 2002
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#20
klean kut you're fuckin trippin!

aint nobody workin minimum wage by total choice...
now when a muthafucka grows up around bad moral havin ass poor folcx!
And all u know is what you see around you and yo ass fucks up and gets a girl pregnant or a girl gets pregnant and ends up droppin outta school n shit and in the long run cut herself short by strugglin to care for her baby because she made a mistake and got pregnant.

AS MUJCH AS THIS HAPPENS IN SOCIETY IT's HELLA COMMON and that aint tha only scenario... there's is hella ways muthafuckas can get caught up in a poor ass below poverty level type life style.

SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY AINT NO BETTER B4 THEY FINISHED HIGHSCHOOL AND CARRIED THAT ON...

NOW AFTER GETTIN OUTTA SCHOOL AND YO PARENTS HOUSE N LIVING SOME REAL LIFE EXPERIENCES YOU MIGHT REALLY REALISE ...OH SHIT I SHOULDA DID GOOD IN SCHOOL!

but then when you out on yo own a muthafucka aint got time for that shit then its too late you're are forced to survive and feed yoself whatever way possible so thas how alotta people get stuck on fucked at a bullshit minimus wage job... myself i cant fade that shit i know how to hustle too good! legal or illegal i'm gettin money and makin a living

but point is homie you cant say "Dont give me that poor in the ghetto crap!"

like a ol' white bitch. yea i'm haf white too so dont go callin racism... but homie dont go tryinna be biased on sum shit you dont fully understand man.

its more than what you see and hear... i been there and aint goin back!