Possibly. However, "higher quality" may not have meant "had more shit" back when homosapiens were slaying sabertooth tigers. Back then, having the biggest muscles and killing the most predators could have yielded those results. And the value of food was nothing more or less than being able to survive.
How America will collapse (by 2025)
- Thread starter ColdBlooded
- Start date
The social engineers have won this round, straight up. They built this ship and they'll sink it when they please.
Also, greed is a natural occurrence but the marketing of a flashy & selfish lifestyle is not. While it is one of our many facets of traits, we literally worship money at this point. So much more than what we care to admit is by design....
Also, greed is a natural occurrence but the marketing of a flashy & selfish lifestyle is not. While it is one of our many facets of traits, we literally worship money at this point. So much more than what we care to admit is by design....
i guess this is the time to post this:
Young Adults Choose Self-Esteem Boost Over Sex and Money
By MEREDITH MELNICK Wednesday, January 12, 201
It's hard to imagine anything young people might value more than food, getting an extra paycheck or even having sex, but according to the results of a recent study in the Journal of Personality there is one thing prized most among college students: a boost to their self-esteem.
In two consecutive studies of a total 282 students, researchers at Ohio State University showed that the majority of students chose kudos over more primal rewards like food, alcohol and sex as well as more sentimental rewards, like seeing a close friend. They even chose accolades over cold, hard cash. But why? (More on Time.com: Why That Rich Guy is Being So Nice to You)
Lead researcher Brad Bushman believes that young people may be "addicted" to self-esteem. "It is somewhat surprising how this desire to feel worthy and valuable trumps almost any other pleasant activity you can imagine," he said in a statement.
The New York Times reports:
The results of the new paper suggest young people have a compulsion to feel good about themselves that overwhelms and precedes other desires.
In order to determine if the subjects had an attachment to praise that was more akin to addiction or entitlement than simple enjoyment or pleasure, Bushman had students fill out two surveys: one that measured their tendency toward narcissism and another that tracked their vulnerability to addictive or rewarding behaviors. The narcissism inventory tested for a disordered level of entitlement, while the other questionnaire was meant to measure how easily they got "hooked." (More on Time.com: Study: Why We Think Women Are More Trustworthy Than Men)
Following the evaluation, students were presented with quizzes asking them to rate how much they liked certain scenarios. In the first, 130 of the subjects were asked if they would prefer to eat their favorite food, indulge in their favorite sexual activity, or experience their favorite self esteem builder, such as getting a good grade or receiving a compliment. They rated each activity on a scale of 1 (not at all) to 5 (extremely) using two metrics: how much they wanted each and how much they liked each. Across the board, students 'liked' all the pleasant activities, but they 'wanted' the self-esteem builder more.
But Bushman and his team worried that their first design had flaws. For instance, a good grade could have been seen by ambitious students as a smarter career move than a night of good food or sex. So in a second study, they upped the ante and offered other rewards that might suggest success in life — rather than simple pleasures — such as a paycheck (professional recognition) or seeing a best friend (a sense of social belonging). They added an evening of drinking alcohol to the options as well. Once again, the majority of the 152 students wanted the self-esteem boost almost as much as they liked it.
Students who scored high for entitlement on the narcissistic inventory were more likely to “want” and less likely to “like” any of the activities, though there was no greater correlation with the self-esteem building activities. Among the students who wanted the self-esteem booster the most —which, in the researchers' theory, was a sign of addictive tendencies — this desire only correlated to negatives consequence if the student also had a low “like” score for the ego boost. (More on Time.com: Consumer Breakups: Why We Lash Out at the Brands We Once Loved)
In other words, wrote the authors. “wanting self-esteem more than liking it predicted making self-serving judgments about the likelihood of future negative events.” These subjects were less likely to acknowledge negative events would happen to them.
It is worth noting that the desire for validation may have had a different quality than the desire for a drink. Wrote the authors:
"The problem isn't with having high self-esteem; it's how much people are driven to boost their self-esteem. When people highly value self-esteem, they may avoid doing things such as acknowledging a wrong they did. Admitting you were wrong may be uncomfortable for self-esteem at the moment, but ultimately it could lead to better learning, relationships, growth, and even future self-esteem," said Jennifer Crocker, co-author and professor of psychology at Ohio State in a statement. (More on Time.com: Forget the Joneses: How Envy Drives Destructive Behavior)
But not everyone was convinced. As the Times reported:
Young Adults Choose Self-Esteem Boost Over Sex and Money
By MEREDITH MELNICK Wednesday, January 12, 201
It's hard to imagine anything young people might value more than food, getting an extra paycheck or even having sex, but according to the results of a recent study in the Journal of Personality there is one thing prized most among college students: a boost to their self-esteem.
In two consecutive studies of a total 282 students, researchers at Ohio State University showed that the majority of students chose kudos over more primal rewards like food, alcohol and sex as well as more sentimental rewards, like seeing a close friend. They even chose accolades over cold, hard cash. But why? (More on Time.com: Why That Rich Guy is Being So Nice to You)
Lead researcher Brad Bushman believes that young people may be "addicted" to self-esteem. "It is somewhat surprising how this desire to feel worthy and valuable trumps almost any other pleasant activity you can imagine," he said in a statement.
The New York Times reports:
The results of the new paper suggest young people have a compulsion to feel good about themselves that overwhelms and precedes other desires.
In order to determine if the subjects had an attachment to praise that was more akin to addiction or entitlement than simple enjoyment or pleasure, Bushman had students fill out two surveys: one that measured their tendency toward narcissism and another that tracked their vulnerability to addictive or rewarding behaviors. The narcissism inventory tested for a disordered level of entitlement, while the other questionnaire was meant to measure how easily they got "hooked." (More on Time.com: Study: Why We Think Women Are More Trustworthy Than Men)
Following the evaluation, students were presented with quizzes asking them to rate how much they liked certain scenarios. In the first, 130 of the subjects were asked if they would prefer to eat their favorite food, indulge in their favorite sexual activity, or experience their favorite self esteem builder, such as getting a good grade or receiving a compliment. They rated each activity on a scale of 1 (not at all) to 5 (extremely) using two metrics: how much they wanted each and how much they liked each. Across the board, students 'liked' all the pleasant activities, but they 'wanted' the self-esteem builder more.
But Bushman and his team worried that their first design had flaws. For instance, a good grade could have been seen by ambitious students as a smarter career move than a night of good food or sex. So in a second study, they upped the ante and offered other rewards that might suggest success in life — rather than simple pleasures — such as a paycheck (professional recognition) or seeing a best friend (a sense of social belonging). They added an evening of drinking alcohol to the options as well. Once again, the majority of the 152 students wanted the self-esteem boost almost as much as they liked it.
Students who scored high for entitlement on the narcissistic inventory were more likely to “want” and less likely to “like” any of the activities, though there was no greater correlation with the self-esteem building activities. Among the students who wanted the self-esteem booster the most —which, in the researchers' theory, was a sign of addictive tendencies — this desire only correlated to negatives consequence if the student also had a low “like” score for the ego boost. (More on Time.com: Consumer Breakups: Why We Lash Out at the Brands We Once Loved)
In other words, wrote the authors. “wanting self-esteem more than liking it predicted making self-serving judgments about the likelihood of future negative events.” These subjects were less likely to acknowledge negative events would happen to them.
It is worth noting that the desire for validation may have had a different quality than the desire for a drink. Wrote the authors:
"The problem isn't with having high self-esteem; it's how much people are driven to boost their self-esteem. When people highly value self-esteem, they may avoid doing things such as acknowledging a wrong they did. Admitting you were wrong may be uncomfortable for self-esteem at the moment, but ultimately it could lead to better learning, relationships, growth, and even future self-esteem," said Jennifer Crocker, co-author and professor of psychology at Ohio State in a statement. (More on Time.com: Forget the Joneses: How Envy Drives Destructive Behavior)
But not everyone was convinced. As the Times reported:
Based on what do you hold this "firm belief"?
Since I already provided an example of a desire to control the best reproductive mates occurring in our ancestors long before they even resembled us remotely - I will skip expanding on that.
But more simply, if you believe that greed is a product of this capitalistic society how do you explain the occurrence of greed in societies that remained relatively untouched such as the Yanomamo of Brazil?
I have been studying cultural anthropology and evolutionary psychology for years and I have yet to read anything about the discovery of a human population that did not express greed.
I think you need to read his statement again. He hasn't said humans have not expressed greed.
Look at his statement again, the bold specifically:
So he isn't saying "greed" is not innate but that the kind of greed that happens today is not innate and is acquired by (or a result of) conditioning and living in a capitalistic society, not caveman times.
Look at his statement again, the bold specifically:
So he isn't saying "greed" is not innate but that the kind of greed that happens today is not innate and is acquired by (or a result of) conditioning and living in a capitalistic society, not caveman times.
I fail to see any kind difference between the "kind of greed" of the past for more woman, more resources, more land - or the kind of greed today.
Maybe he (or you) could explain the difference in this term (greed) which I regard to be fairly simple and basic.
How is greed today different from greed of the past?
Since you guys are making the claim that the greed of today is different from the greed of yesterday - the burden of proof is on you.
Either way, even if greed has changed, the fact that we have experienced some type of greed for thousands of years makes it innate to our species - which was the original question;
Let me type this again so you can understand it: What he is saying is the kind of greed that happens today is not innate and is acquired by (or a result of) conditioning and living in a capitalistic society, not caveman times. Two different time periods, two different types of people, two different cultural/social and political environments and overall two different circumstances. In other words, what is going on today is not a matter of nature but what has been nurtured.
That is the question you should have asked him in the first place.
Although, I've laid the groundwork for answering the question, I'll let him answer.
The burden of proof isn't on me because I didn't make the statement nor have I made the claim. I read the statement and gave my assessment of it which Lamberto agreed with.
As for the burden of proof? Well if we look at it from your perspective of debate (which we shouldn't) the burden of proof will actually rest with you, Mr. Nice Guy. Remember, when I Pukokeki first asked the question you were the first to respond with a positive.
When you made the claim that "Sexual selection and competition (desire to access higher quality mating partners) has been going on since before we walked on 2 feet - so in at least some aspects, it is unequivocally innate." you either failed at answering the question or you answered it with your claim that "in at least some aspects, it is unequivocally innate." So which is it? You failed to answer it or the burden of proof rests with you for introducing the first positive?
Now if you spin it another way and say it is neither of the two, and suggest that the term "in some aspects" does not mean it is "unequivocally innate" across the board, then you have no right to question Lamberto for a claim in which he implies distinction and specifically states how the greed of today was/is acquired. If you're limiting it to sexual reproduction, are we to assume that there are or aren't other aspects of greed that are or aren't innate? However, we don't need to limit it to sexual reproduction because you just said
"I fail to see any kind difference between the "kind of greed" of the past for more woman, more resources, more land - or the kind of greed today."
Experiencing something for a length of time does not make it innate, and Lamberto is not saying that greed is not innate. He is saying the type of greed today is not innate (nature) and is acquired through conditioning and living in this capitalistic society (nurture.)
That is the question you should have asked him in the first place.
Although, I've laid the groundwork for answering the question, I'll let him answer.
The burden of proof isn't on me because I didn't make the statement nor have I made the claim. I read the statement and gave my assessment of it which Lamberto agreed with.
As for the burden of proof? Well if we look at it from your perspective of debate (which we shouldn't) the burden of proof will actually rest with you, Mr. Nice Guy. Remember, when I Pukokeki first asked the question you were the first to respond with a positive.
When you made the claim that "Sexual selection and competition (desire to access higher quality mating partners) has been going on since before we walked on 2 feet - so in at least some aspects, it is unequivocally innate." you either failed at answering the question or you answered it with your claim that "in at least some aspects, it is unequivocally innate." So which is it? You failed to answer it or the burden of proof rests with you for introducing the first positive?
Now if you spin it another way and say it is neither of the two, and suggest that the term "in some aspects" does not mean it is "unequivocally innate" across the board, then you have no right to question Lamberto for a claim in which he implies distinction and specifically states how the greed of today was/is acquired. If you're limiting it to sexual reproduction, are we to assume that there are or aren't other aspects of greed that are or aren't innate? However, we don't need to limit it to sexual reproduction because you just said
"I fail to see any kind difference between the "kind of greed" of the past for more woman, more resources, more land - or the kind of greed today."
Experiencing something for a length of time does not make it innate, and Lamberto is not saying that greed is not innate. He is saying the type of greed today is not innate (nature) and is acquired through conditioning and living in this capitalistic society (nurture.)
Im with Nice Guy. Saying that we experience a qualitatively different form of greed today does not mesh with current realities.
Manifest Destiny? The European colonization of 3/4th of the globe? The slave trade? I would say these are pure, unmitigated expressions of gross selfishness and greed on appalling levels. We now live in a much more egalitarian national and global climate.
One can make the argument that the racism is covert and though the faces change, the song remains the same; nonetheless, though we may covet and strive for material possessions, at least we arent denying those rights wholesale and without debate to large groups of people.
Placing the onus of blame on capitalism, in my opinion, is tantamount to blaming forest fires on the existence of tree leaves. Capitalism is the most efficient organizational method of meeting demand, producing goods, and organization of labor in a large-scale economy. Many variants of capitalism exist around the globe, and I dont think you can say that the greed diminishes in a non-capitalist environment.
For example, though Cuba is communist, Cubans still want things like pens and computers. This idea that unity, community, and the common good instantly become ensconced in all members of a non-capitalist society is intellectual milquetoast.The only reason it takes on that appearance is because it is enforced at the barrel of a gun.
Manifest Destiny? The European colonization of 3/4th of the globe? The slave trade? I would say these are pure, unmitigated expressions of gross selfishness and greed on appalling levels. We now live in a much more egalitarian national and global climate.
One can make the argument that the racism is covert and though the faces change, the song remains the same; nonetheless, though we may covet and strive for material possessions, at least we arent denying those rights wholesale and without debate to large groups of people.
Placing the onus of blame on capitalism, in my opinion, is tantamount to blaming forest fires on the existence of tree leaves. Capitalism is the most efficient organizational method of meeting demand, producing goods, and organization of labor in a large-scale economy. Many variants of capitalism exist around the globe, and I dont think you can say that the greed diminishes in a non-capitalist environment.
For example, though Cuba is communist, Cubans still want things like pens and computers. This idea that unity, community, and the common good instantly become ensconced in all members of a non-capitalist society is intellectual milquetoast.The only reason it takes on that appearance is because it is enforced at the barrel of a gun.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7065205277695921912#
they go over many aspects of greed because of a capitalist society.
Ignore the name n watch the video if you care.
just because we are taught to see "communism"(as we see it)as the opposite of capitalism, they both were 'produced' by the same outdated flawed mindset, and proving capitalism true by invalidating communism or vice versa is making absolutely no point on the topic.
both are rooted in the same exact idea of Self and Whole
they go over many aspects of greed because of a capitalist society.
Ignore the name n watch the video if you care.
just because we are taught to see "communism"(as we see it)as the opposite of capitalism, they both were 'produced' by the same outdated flawed mindset, and proving capitalism true by invalidating communism or vice versa is making absolutely no point on the topic.
both are rooted in the same exact idea of Self and Whole
For real, true talk...
I listed to Coast To Coast on my way home from work, they had a show about this a few weeks ago...
CINA is on its way up. They will pass us up soon, but it would not effect us at the same time. We can still be saved but too manty americans watch american idol and gay dancing shows. They don't vote, they dont buy american. If we got the US to actually have some spirit and say enough is enuff, we'd turn thins around and make it a race to the top.
When energy prices go up tho, its going to get rough. People need to realize that they don't get mad at the oil companies, they should be mad at that they didn't do enough. Mad at themselves. Go support your communities, buy local. Get active in politics and DEMANd in large groups that the US changes its ways and TAX IMPORTS. Get competitive. You think China and Europe and Pakistan will quit selling here over some taxes??? No way. We buy so much foreign garbage (PS.. Steelers going to win the Superbowl tonight) that they willl still import goods for us to buy. TAX IT TAX IT! Use the money to advance our industrial revolution. Copycat nations are even with us, we need more kids interested in science and tech to get a leg up on the competition.
I listed to Coast To Coast on my way home from work, they had a show about this a few weeks ago...
CINA is on its way up. They will pass us up soon, but it would not effect us at the same time. We can still be saved but too manty americans watch american idol and gay dancing shows. They don't vote, they dont buy american. If we got the US to actually have some spirit and say enough is enuff, we'd turn thins around and make it a race to the top.
When energy prices go up tho, its going to get rough. People need to realize that they don't get mad at the oil companies, they should be mad at that they didn't do enough. Mad at themselves. Go support your communities, buy local. Get active in politics and DEMANd in large groups that the US changes its ways and TAX IMPORTS. Get competitive. You think China and Europe and Pakistan will quit selling here over some taxes??? No way. We buy so much foreign garbage (PS.. Steelers going to win the Superbowl tonight) that they willl still import goods for us to buy. TAX IT TAX IT! Use the money to advance our industrial revolution. Copycat nations are even with us, we need more kids interested in science and tech to get a leg up on the competition.