HBO: Game of Thrones
- Thread starter Neshani
- Start date
Yeah, pretty much multiple posts were being upvoted to the top of the Game of Thrones subreddit as well as posts inside the episode discussion talking about Bran probably being responsible for Hodor's condition, and the likelihood of it being revealed soon in a greensight scene. Literally thousands maybe hundreds of thousands of people thought the same thing and it spread out to YouTube and fan sites and click bait sites etc. No one saw the possibility of there being some kind of moment where Bran warged into Hodor in the present, while in a greensight 'flashback', with the "Hold the door" name reveal. however you want to put it, and i don't recall you saying anything about that possibility beforehand.
One of the more popular theories was that Bran was going to try to save Hodor from getting hurt in the stable, like being kicked in the head by a horse or something thinking he'd save Hodor from becoming basically brain dead and thus altering the past, however Hodor hears his voice and turns or gets confused and that's actually what caused Hodor to be injured, thus permanently repeating the last thing he heard, bran saying "Hodor".
One of the more popular theories was that Bran was going to try to save Hodor from getting hurt in the stable, like being kicked in the head by a horse or something thinking he'd save Hodor from becoming basically brain dead and thus altering the past, however Hodor hears his voice and turns or gets confused and that's actually what caused Hodor to be injured, thus permanently repeating the last thing he heard, bran saying "Hodor".
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You guys keep saying "it's a closed loop" like that's an out for the time traveling thing. Well, what am i not understanding correctly because to me that confirms it. We've seen him cause the ToJ disruption, which is bigger than people realize. That makes it possible that Bran was the one who built the wall, whispered to Mad King Aerys, whispered to Varys in the sorcerers fire, established Winterfell as the defense of the North with a stark always must being there to establish that he's born, it makes all of that possible. If the ink is dry that doesn't mean the past cannot be changed, it means we just haven't seen Bran "write" everything yet, that he's already done / "is dry". It means this is the end of everything, and to change the now, he must figure out what he did wrong, which could mean that the 3ER is the difference maker here somehow "this time". That's why I'm so pissed...
The ToJ is the key to this probably. When Bran goes back to the Tower of Joy again, and if it's confirmed that his yelling to Eddard causes just enough hesitation for a popular theory to be confirmed... that'll be the confirmation.
The only way i can accept this is if "Daenerys Targaryen" was the voice Varys heard in the fire, from Bran the Lord of Light, altering the course of his life thus enabling he and Tyrion get her on the Ironthrone. Hopefully the Dragons are the key to destroying the others which easily wins over the houses and the people and establishes her as the Queen. The difference from the first time around and now, after establishing the 3ER as a reboot to hone his abilities to also warg into the Dragons or some shit, is establishing himself as the Lord of Light, and promising Azor Ahai. Then you can all gag and scowl and I'll continue to chee chee and smile for months / years.
That's what I've been disgusted with, it completely and utterly undermines everything in the story and establishes Bran as the sole character / the entire book series. That could've been easily done without 4352 pages with at least 1600 to go. It wouldn't be genius or clever, it'd be horrible writing.
The ToJ is the key to this probably. When Bran goes back to the Tower of Joy again, and if it's confirmed that his yelling to Eddard causes just enough hesitation for a popular theory to be confirmed... that'll be the confirmation.
The only way i can accept this is if "Daenerys Targaryen" was the voice Varys heard in the fire, from Bran the Lord of Light, altering the course of his life thus enabling he and Tyrion get her on the Ironthrone. Hopefully the Dragons are the key to destroying the others which easily wins over the houses and the people and establishes her as the Queen. The difference from the first time around and now, after establishing the 3ER as a reboot to hone his abilities to also warg into the Dragons or some shit, is establishing himself as the Lord of Light, and promising Azor Ahai. Then you can all gag and scowl and I'll continue to chee chee and smile for months / years.
That's what I've been disgusted with, it completely and utterly undermines everything in the story and establishes Bran as the sole character / the entire book series. That could've been easily done without 4352 pages with at least 1600 to go. It wouldn't be genius or clever, it'd be horrible writing.
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I don't buy that at all. I think he and 3ER can tap into Weirwood.net which essentially records history and what he can "see" in the past is all connected to the Weirwood network. Most of these trees were cut down so he's limited to certain areas (they were widespread and covered everywhere until the invasion of Westeros by the Andals/Faith of the Seven cunts) so what he's seeing is recorded history, the ink is dry. 3ER/Bloodraven already said he tried to change the past and it's not possible.
There is a new theory I'm working on for the end game and it's kinda mind blowing in a sense but I don't want to talk about it just yet. But I assure you, changing the past to fix things isn't it. Sure, maybe there will be a couple other Brann/Hodor moments, where he "effects" the past which already happened (closed loop, time paradox), but it wont be fixing shit.
Nein! Nein! Nein! He is extremely important but not the sole character. His role is going to be something crazy but I believe his role is to be a bridge between The Nights King and someone/something else. There was an old pact that was broken...there's more to the White Walkers than simply kill humans and GRRM has confirmed it's not going to be so cut & dry about what is evil and what is good.
There is a new theory I'm working on for the end game and it's kinda mind blowing in a sense but I don't want to talk about it just yet. But I assure you, changing the past to fix things isn't it. Sure, maybe there will be a couple other Brann/Hodor moments, where he "effects" the past which already happened (closed loop, time paradox), but it wont be fixing shit.
Nein! Nein! Nein! He is extremely important but not the sole character. His role is going to be something crazy but I believe his role is to be a bridge between The Nights King and someone/something else. There was an old pact that was broken...there's more to the White Walkers than simply kill humans and GRRM has confirmed it's not going to be so cut & dry about what is evil and what is good.
That's why I say it's a paradox. It's getting into free will versus destiny and shit. I just found this from a theoretical physicist that sides with how I interpret it:
Tech Insider spoke to Sean Carroll, a theoretical physicist at Caltech who studies time.
"Bran is in two places at one time, or rather, two times at the same time," Carroll said.
Bran's powers create a bridge between the two time periods.
"He's in the past with young Hodor, and somehow there's a connection made between the young Hodor and Hodor in the present moment," Carroll explained. "And with the fear of zombies catching them and running away, somehow that all gets transmitted to the younger Hodor, so young Hodor goes into a seizure."
Whoa. Hodor, Hodor.
"Young Hodor is getting an impression of holding the door and that's giving him a seizure, and henceforth he can only say 'Hodor,'" Carroll said. "He goes on to serve the Starks, later becoming the very person sending that mental impression to his younger self."
So did Bran change the course of history in Westeros?
"The short way of saying this is, he didn't change the past, he affected the past," Carroll said. "There's only one past, and only one Hodor that had that seizure."
[...]
"Interestingly, once you allow time travel into your universe, rather than saying everything that happens has as source," Carroll explained, "you're asking that everything is consistent, and that everything is actually information circling around in time without a source."
This is known as a consistent causal loop. People in later times come back to alter the events of the past, but this is consistent with how these events later play out, creating that future that sends back the time travelers.
Contrast that with an inconsistent causal loop, which occurs in Back to the Future. Marty and Doc's meddling in the past changes the course of history, causing some time travel-induced family photo editing. Unlike a consistent loop, this — along with the classic "become your own ancestor" trope — is a time-travel paradox.
[...]
"[Bran] has free will in the sense that, if you don't know what's going to happen, you have a choice," Carroll said. "But after it happened, no one has free will."
In other words, Bran had a choice until he made it.
"From a physicist perspective, you have free will to the extent that you can make choices," he added. "But in the sense that those choices need to be consistent, you do not."
http://www.techinsider.io/game-of-thrones-hodor-time-travel-physics-2016-5
Tech Insider spoke to Sean Carroll, a theoretical physicist at Caltech who studies time.
"Bran is in two places at one time, or rather, two times at the same time," Carroll said.
Bran's powers create a bridge between the two time periods.
"He's in the past with young Hodor, and somehow there's a connection made between the young Hodor and Hodor in the present moment," Carroll explained. "And with the fear of zombies catching them and running away, somehow that all gets transmitted to the younger Hodor, so young Hodor goes into a seizure."
Whoa. Hodor, Hodor.
"Young Hodor is getting an impression of holding the door and that's giving him a seizure, and henceforth he can only say 'Hodor,'" Carroll said. "He goes on to serve the Starks, later becoming the very person sending that mental impression to his younger self."
So did Bran change the course of history in Westeros?
"The short way of saying this is, he didn't change the past, he affected the past," Carroll said. "There's only one past, and only one Hodor that had that seizure."
[...]
"Interestingly, once you allow time travel into your universe, rather than saying everything that happens has as source," Carroll explained, "you're asking that everything is consistent, and that everything is actually information circling around in time without a source."
This is known as a consistent causal loop. People in later times come back to alter the events of the past, but this is consistent with how these events later play out, creating that future that sends back the time travelers.
Contrast that with an inconsistent causal loop, which occurs in Back to the Future. Marty and Doc's meddling in the past changes the course of history, causing some time travel-induced family photo editing. Unlike a consistent loop, this — along with the classic "become your own ancestor" trope — is a time-travel paradox.
[...]
"[Bran] has free will in the sense that, if you don't know what's going to happen, you have a choice," Carroll said. "But after it happened, no one has free will."
In other words, Bran had a choice until he made it.
"From a physicist perspective, you have free will to the extent that you can make choices," he added. "But in the sense that those choices need to be consistent, you do not."
http://www.techinsider.io/game-of-thrones-hodor-time-travel-physics-2016-5
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In layman' terms, Bran can't change anything because anything that he changes has always been changed. Bran always fried Hodor's brain, he didn't change anything.
For example, let's say Bran wants to save Ned from being executed, so he wargs into Cersei who proclaims Ned will be sent to the wall, only for Joffrey to order him dead. Once time travel's involved you can't look at time as being linear anymore, it means that all things in time are happening at once.
PS- I fucking love paradoxes
For example, let's say Bran wants to save Ned from being executed, so he wargs into Cersei who proclaims Ned will be sent to the wall, only for Joffrey to order him dead. Once time travel's involved you can't look at time as being linear anymore, it means that all things in time are happening at once.
PS- I fucking love paradoxes
